Kava + 5-mapb interaction?

[Drunk on Kombucha]

Hello all, I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this.

Basically what I found from my research is that kava has a half life of approximately 9 hours and has MAOI-B qualities meaning it should be neuroprotective and theoretically safe in the case of taking things like MDMA. This was basically the extent of what I could find aside from people saying they used kava on the comedown of an mdma experience and it was fine.


So, I stopped drinking kava about 26 hours before my planned roll. Usually I stop supplements I think may have any potential interaction at all at least 3 days prior, but kava has been helping me drink less and it seemed like it would be fine.

I took my ~64mg 5-mapb and 100ug LSD like usual and within an hour, when I'd normally add other things to the mix, I noticed it felt much stronger than normal and I wasn't sure if I needed to take anything else. It felt fine for a bit, and then I'd say within about 30 minutes it almost felt like too much and subtle alarm bells started going off. I'm not entirely sure what neurotoxicity feels like, but it basically felt like my brain was flooded with too many chemicals for it to pass them through and actually use them. I began using my antioxidants immediately and to an extent felt better here and there but overall had an unpleasant experience for the next 12 hours that I wished I would stop. Nothing but pure restlessness, inability to think straight, feeling hot and cold simultaneously. I'd say it is possible I worked myself into a frenzy and some of it was psychological but I actually did fairly well to stay calm and try to accept and embrace the experience. However there was pretty much no euphoria the entire experience and parts that did not feel neutral felt dysphoric. About a week later and I am finally beginning to feel normal again.


Does anyone have any input on this? Kava is the only factor that could have made things different than any of my last trips. I did also begin taking daily alpha lipoic acid and acetyl-l-carnitine for a week leading up to this and stopping the day of iirc, but if anything my understanding is that would dull the effects, not make them unpleasant. However, that is not something I've done in the past either, but saw no potential interaction issues there.


Thanks for your time.

 

[Neuroborean]

to be honest
I think there's some literature that points out that some kavalactones have effect on serotonin and some other works as an MAOI.
BUT....
I don't think it's really relevant because the quantity of kava you'll need to drink to have a dangerous MAOI or serotonin interaction, I mean, to create a serotonin syndrome..
I think it's too much, you won't drink that much, the serotonin and MAOI activity is negligible.

 

[cosmosmariner]

Sorry to hear you had such an uncomfortable experience. Interestingly, I once use kava (like a benzo) to end an uncomfortable mushroom trip. Not sure how that factors in, but wanted to let you know.

 

[Neuroborean]

Nothing but pure restlessness, inability to think straight, feeling hot and cold simultaneously. I'd say it is possible I worked myself into a frenzy and some of it was psychological but I actually did fairly well to stay calm and try to accept and embrace the experience. However there was pretty much no euphoria the entire experience and parts that did not feel neutral felt dysphoric. About a week later and I am finally beginning to feel normal again.

Oh excuse me, I missed this part of the message, fuck the adhd man...
well, my message it's still the same, I think the sero activity and MAOI activity of kavalactones is negligible but perhaps it's enough to cause it...
how much kava did you use?

 

[Neuroborean]

This about the MAOI:

Ex vivo and in vitro inhibitory potential of Kava extract on monoamine oxidase B activity in mice

This study investigated the effect of Kava extract (Piper methysticum), a medicinal plant that has been worldly used by its anxiolytic effects, on mon…

www.sciencedirect.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335953395_Monoamine_Oxidase_Inhibition_by_Kavalactones_from_Kava_Piper_Methysticum

"-Kavain was found to be a good potency in vitro inhibitor of human MAO-B with an IC50 of 5.34 µM. (±)-Kavain is a weaker MAO-A inhibitor with an IC50 of 19.0 µM. Under the same experimental conditions, the reference MAO inhibitor, curcumin, displays IC50 values of 5.01 µM and 2.55 µM for the inhibition of MAO-A and MAO-B, respectively. It was further established that (±)-kavain interacts reversibly and competitively with MAO-A and MAO-B with enzyme-inhibitor dissociation constants (Ki) of 7.72 and 5.10 µM, respectively. Curcumin in turn, displays a Ki value of 3.08 µM for the inhibition of MAO-A. Based on these findings, other kavalactones (dihydrokavain, methysticin, dihydromethysticin, yangonin, and desmethoxyyangonin) were also evaluated as MAO inhibitors in this study. Yangonin proved to be the most potent MAO inhibitor with IC50 values of 1.29 and 0.085 µM for MAO-A and MAO-B, respectively. It may be concluded that some of the central effects (e.g., anxiolytic) of kava may be mediated by MAO inhibition."

So basically there's some MAOI activity, that's for sure.


According to this study, which is some kind of review/compilation, it doesn't directly increase serotonin (releasing or inhibiting reuptake) but decreases sero, in anycase perhaps in your case the MAOI effect was much stronger than the sero reduction.. or it could be another stuff that I cannot pinpoint...

https://rsdjournal.org/index.php/rsd/article/download/20479/18216/247762

"The mechanisms of action linked to the kava CNS described in the literature are: increased binding of the ligand to γaminobutyric acid (GABA) A receptors, reversible inhibition of monoamine oxidase (MAO) B, the blocking of sodium and calcium ion channels, the modulators of the erythroid 2 pathway/antioxidant response element (Nrf2/ARE), the activity of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase (AChE), the activation of N-methyl-D-type glutamatergic receptors -aspartate (NMDA), interaction with cannabinoid receptors, activation of dopaminergic neurons, reduction of serotonin, negative modulation of glycine receptors and reduction of neuronal reuptake of norepinephrine (Volgin et al., 2020; LaPorte et al., 2011). Figure 2 shows a schematic of the kava neuropharmacological mechanisms of action."

Maybe it's something about glycine? I would need to dig much deeper on that..


So this is what I could tell you, at the moment. It could be a light serotonin syndrome or something related with other receptors dysregulation.

 

[Drunk on Kombucha]

This about the MAOI:

Ex vivo and in vitro inhibitory potential of Kava extract on monoamine oxidase B activity in mice

This study investigated the effect of Kava extract (Piper methysticum), a medicinal plant that has been worldly used by its anxiolytic effects, on mon…

www.sciencedirect.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335953395_Monoamine_Oxidase_Inhibition_by_Kavalactones_from_Kava_Piper_Methysticum

"-Kavain was found to be a good potency in vitro inhibitor of human MAO-B with an IC50 of 5.34 µM. (±)-Kavain is a weaker MAO-A inhibitor with an IC50 of 19.0 µM. Under the same experimental conditions, the reference MAO inhibitor, curcumin, displays IC50 values of 5.01 µM and 2.55 µM for the inhibition of MAO-A and MAO-B, respectively. It was further established that (±)-kavain interacts reversibly and competitively with MAO-A and MAO-B with enzyme-inhibitor dissociation constants (Ki) of 7.72 and 5.10 µM, respectively. Curcumin in turn, displays a Ki value of 3.08 µM for the inhibition of MAO-A. Based on these findings, other kavalactones (dihydrokavain, methysticin, dihydromethysticin, yangonin, and desmethoxyyangonin) were also evaluated as MAO inhibitors in this study. Yangonin proved to be the most potent MAO inhibitor with IC50 values of 1.29 and 0.085 µM for MAO-A and MAO-B, respectively. It may be concluded that some of the central effects (e.g., anxiolytic) of kava may be mediated by MAO inhibition."

So basically there's some MAOI activity, that's for sure.


According to this study, which is some kind of review/compilation, it doesn't directly increase serotonin (releasing or inhibiting reuptake) but decreases sero, in anycase perhaps in your case the MAOI effect was much stronger than the sero reduction.. or it could be another stuff that I cannot pinpoint...

https://rsdjournal.org/index.php/rsd/article/download/20479/18216/247762

"The mechanisms of action linked to the kava CNS described in the literature are: increased binding of the ligand to γaminobutyric acid (GABA) A receptors, reversible inhibition of monoamine oxidase (MAO) B, the blocking of sodium and calcium ion channels, the modulators of the erythroid 2 pathway/antioxidant response element (Nrf2/ARE), the activity of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase (AChE), the activation of N-methyl-D-type glutamatergic receptors -aspartate (NMDA), interaction with cannabinoid receptors, activation of dopaminergic neurons, reduction of serotonin, negative modulation of glycine receptors and reduction of neuronal reuptake of norepinephrine (Volgin et al., 2020; LaPorte et al., 2011). Figure 2 shows a schematic of the kava neuropharmacological mechanisms of action."

Maybe it's something about glycine? I would need to dig much deeper on that..


So this is what I could tell you, at the moment. It could be a light serotonin syndrome or something related with other receptors dysregulation.

Thanks for the responses you guys. Yeah I figured it could be negligible but I don't know what it could be. The only way I'd think to do a follow up really would be to wait, do nothing differently and then try a smaller amount of 5-mapb and see how it goes. I can't imagine kava consumption could somehow cause the LSD to behave abnormally, I've never heard of something that causes psychedelics to outright just give negative effects. I've had tough trips but nothing like this.


As far as amount, it's hard to guess or measure. It's quality kava and all I know is my consumption is somewhere on the heavier end since I've used it rather liberally as an alcohol replacement for the time being. Up until now, I've made it using around 8 heaping tablespoons and sometimes would consume that whole batch in an evening. However, after trying traditional prep here recently, it has occurred to me that those blender batches would not be a consistent or accurate measurement for typical potency of a kava brew.

That is something my friend mentioned though, there are lots of varieties of kava so perhaps the variation in alkaloids and effects could potentially be dismisible with some kinds and not so much with others. People also talk about reverse tolerance with kava and how after a month or so of daily use it starts working much better, so perhaps despite the halflife it can still accumulate in the body and have completely different reactions than what studies involving one dose would lead one to believe? Inhibiting liver enzyme pathways involved in 5-mapb and mdma metabolization was also something I wondered, which I either tried to find and couldn't or completely overlooked researching.

Either way, at least in the future, I think I will stop drinking kava for a week beforehand. Hopefully that should be enough time. I shouldn't drink it every day anyway, and now I have actually gone many days of the last week with 0 alcohol so at least there is that from this trip. I think I will also not take LSD next time either, I like it as a potentiator but overall have not found it as conducive with self growth as other psychedelics and this way I will be able to conclude if there is something funky going on solely with the 5-mapb. I think I should also try to get back into working with just psychedelics more again as I haven't had a trip in the last year that did not involve MDMA or 5-mapb.

And oh yeah, you mentioned glycine. I'm not sure if it is relevant but I take glycine as a supplement from time to time. I hadn't taken it in quite a while but know I took it a few times here and there leading up to the trip. But it never would have occurred to me it would have any kind of interaction with anything at all and perhaps taking it as a supplement would not be the same as whatever is mentioned happening in the brain here. I wouldn't think anything related to norepinephrine would be a culprit. I have not really read into what people suffering from SS experience, but all I can tell you from what I felt was that it was like the normal "flooded" feeling of 5-mapb at first until suddenly it felt like my brain was flooded too much and it was as if the resulting overflooding somehow caused all positive/euphoric effects to become neutralized. I have wondered if somehow taking a ton of antioxidants and free radical scavengers at the peak of the experience could have potentially blocked positive effects from there on out as well, but I don't think it makes sense that they would have disappeared completely or that the experience would have felt overall negative.

Thanks again for your replies!

 

[AutoTripper]

Shilajit, non psychoactive powerful ancient natural health supp.


Does something magical to how Kavalactones act.

Rare level of synergy and potentiation.

For those kava falla short, try shilajit daily.


I discovered this magic doorway, 1st time took shilajit.

I was on 1 mg LSD, but later added Kava.

I know my own drugs.

Felt like beautiful ketamine. Real displacement, flowing, bright, just amazing.


Kava compliments and potentiates many psychoactives, including LSD, also benzos massively & vice versa.

 

[Neuroborean]

Shilajit, non psychoactive powerful ancient natural health supp.


Does something magical to how Kavalactones act.

Rare level of synergy and potentiation.

For those kava falla short, try shilajit daily.


I discovered this magic doorway, 1st time took shilajit.

I was on 1 mg LSD, but later added Kava.

I know my own drugs.

Felt like beautiful ketamine. Real displacement, flowing, bright, just amazing.


Kava compliments and potentiates many psychoactives, including LSD, also benzos massively & vice versa.

man, you own me a DM when possible!

I wanted to help you with your health problems, I've been researching.
Have you heard about Haritaki? terminalia chebula (scientific name)
I've heard AMAZING stuff about that herb, really worth it, I'll buy at least 250 and some kava and report back about the haritaki.
It can help you lyme thing and also helps IBS and.. (this is the most interesting) helps to open the third eye (pineal gland decalcification). Maybe you don't believe that "unproven" stuff but I listen to fantastic reports, about people dreaming so intensely and feeling spiritually and corporally resetted, similarly to what people talk about ibogaine. It detox the body from heavy metals. Maybe it's just that.

 

[Drunk on Kombucha]

Shilajit, non psychoactive powerful ancient natural health supp.


Does something magical to how Kavalactones act.

Rare level of synergy and potentiation.

For those kava falla short, try shilajit daily.


I discovered this magic doorway, 1st time took shilajit.

I was on 1 mg LSD, but later added Kava.

I know my own drugs.

Felt like beautiful ketamine. Real displacement, flowing, bright, just amazing.


Kava compliments and potentiates many psychoactives, including LSD, also benzos massively & vice versa.

Interesting. I've heard of it before, my friend said he thinks what is typically sold as a shilajit is "mostly overpriced fulvic acid". I've yet to do any digging on it.

Any other health benefits you notice? And must it be taken dialy to work or does just taking it alongside kava do the trick?

I'd imagine kava is nice with psychedelics. I hear fair mention of it being great for the tail end and want to say, like with ketamine, I've heard people using it at the same time as dosing and it helping smooth and alleviate any fuzzies about the comeup.


Long story short, about a year and a half ago I had my first ever largely unpleasant trip. I was tripping like 3 times a month between mushrooms, LSD, and san pedro, and all of the sudden out of nowhere this one 200ug Owsley trip turned sideways and bit my ass. It actually felt similar to my most recent experience in some ways, except I was a lot more haunted. It was okay for a bit, I snorted a small amount of some mystery XTC pill I never tested but had used similarly before and in small amounts it produced a decent light euphoria with psychedelics, but then for some reason decided to take a hit of weed and everything went completely fucked sideways. I'd say the level of anguish was proportionate to the difference in dosage but at the same time, I do think the presence of 5-mapb this time aided in feeling more calm and I also didn't have all the other supplements I do now back then. I've learned to be more cautious now. Either way, I'm still not sure what to do in these instances, whether it is mild serotonin syndrome or just an unpleasant trip, I'm not sure what can fix it. I've had plenty of trips where moments after a fright or bought of discomfort, I go "woah, I could have probably lost it if I hadn't kept it together". I feel like I'm fairly if not mostly proficient in that aspect but these 2 experiences just felt completely haywire by comparison. Anyway though, that first one scared me off psychs for a bit which is why I haven't tripped without a roll since but perhaps kava will act as a nice comfort blanket.


Also on the topic of heavy metal detoxification, clinoptilolite is supposed to be good. It is a pretty interesting mineral last I read about it, you actually don't want to even use a metal spoon to scoop it and apparently it is so powerful it can steal nutrients from your food if there's any in your stomach when you take it.

 

[AutoTripper]

man, you own me a DM when possible!

I wanted to help you with your health problems, I've been researching.
Have you heard about Haritaki? terminalia chebula (scientific name)
I've heard AMAZING stuff about that herb, really worth it, I'll buy at least 250 and some kava and report back about the haritaki.
It can help you lyme thing and also helps IBS and.. (this is the most interesting) helps to open the third eye (pineal gland decalcification). Maybe you don't believe that "unproven" stuff but I listen to fantastic reports, about people dreaming so intensely and feeling spiritually and corporally resetted, similarly to what people talk about ibogaine. It detox the body from heavy metals. Maybe it's just that.

Mate, lol I believe this unproven yet still evident stuff all day long, it's the proven stuff I am more weary about.

My problem, allergic to everything.

Including the Shilajit. I never mentioned it but I cannot take Shilajit at all which is a shame because it has miraculous properties.

All herbs, remedies, v few exceptions.

The cost of trying anything new to learn I am allergic to it, can be a fight for recovery and life.

I have tried so much, it's not viable at all yet, 1% chance of tolerance.

I would be taking now still, Shilajit, Sea Moss (equally allergic) probably Ashwaghanda, so much else. 5htp. Taheebo. Neem. You name it, odds are insufferable allergy.

Ayurvedic formulas like Triphala. Decent probiotics, homemade water kefir or kombucha, it goes on and on.

Allergies simply deprive me. It's really amazing I survive, and so invisible too.

I would add Haritaki to that. I never need persuading of the virtues of natural medicinal herbs.

But I can't even imagine not being allergic to it, by gut and from experience. It's always been a tease too.

To research something try it feel the real good it does, but outweighed by torturous concurrent allergies. Hell to pay for.

Catch 22.

I do indeed owe you a pm sorry man, this business is so gruesome and horrific though, the dark reality of Nanotech and the illusory reality in which we are so controlled, it took me a long time to devlop a manner of bringing it into regular ordinary disussion with context and meaning, like a serious personal intellectual work to the point where it just rolls off my tongue, as far as I am sure.


It's hard suddenly to talk about it. The stage, what's actually happened this year, and last few months>weeks>week>days.

Trauma has thoroughly shattered me.

I am a philosopher. I am here now. It can't be a fluke. The Dominoes were always going to land this way, because they have.

And so they will. I don't support the all out Indian kamakaze total road safety abandonment saying, if die it's God's will, but I have to reaon that in a sense, fate and outcome is determined.

Serious events have transpired here last few weeks. I'm lucky to live, but barely wish to.

Trying to settle the terrain and pull things together again. It's the most trauma test and aggravation I have ever faced though.


But what will be, surely will be.

 

[AutoTripper]

Interesting. I've heard of it before, my friend said he thinks what is typically sold as a shilajit is "mostly overpriced fulvic acid". I've yet to do any digging on it.

Any other health benefits you notice? And must it be taken dialy to work or does just taking it alongside kava do the trick?

I'd imagine kava is nice with psychedelics. I hear fair mention of it being great for the tail end and want to say, like with ketamine, I've heard people using it at the same time as dosing and it helping smooth and alleviate any fuzzies about the comeup.


Long story short, about a year and a half ago I had my first ever largely unpleasant trip. I was tripping like 3 times a month between mushrooms, LSD, and san pedro, and all of the sudden out of nowhere this one 200ug Owsley trip turned sideways and bit my ass. It actually felt similar to my most recent experience in some ways, except I was a lot more haunted. It was okay for a bit, I snorted a small amount of some mystery XTC pill I never tested but had used similarly before and in small amounts it produced a decent light euphoria with psychedelics, but then for some reason decided to take a hit of weed and everything went completely fucked sideways. I'd say the level of anguish was proportionate to the difference in dosage but at the same time, I do think the presence of 5-mapb this time aided in feeling more calm and I also didn't have all the other supplements I do now back then. I've learned to be more cautious now. Either way, I'm still not sure what to do in these instances, whether it is mild serotonin syndrome or just an unpleasant trip, I'm not sure what can fix it. I've had plenty of trips where moments after a fright or bought of discomfort, I go "woah, I could have probably lost it if I hadn't kept it together". I feel like I'm fairly if not mostly proficient in that aspect but these 2 experiences just felt completely haywire by comparison. Anyway though, that first one scared me off psychs for a bit which is why I haven't tripped without a roll since but perhaps kava will act as a nice comfort blanket.


Also on the topic of heavy metal detoxification, clinoptilolite is supposed to be good. It is a pretty interesting mineral last I read about it, you actually don't want to even use a metal spoon to scoop it and apparently it is so powerful it can steal nutrients from your food if there's any in your stomach when you take it.

Hey. You write excellently. Your thinking is clear. Thanks for your thoughts.

Kava will definitely serve as that cushion. It compliments psychedelics and vice versa extremely well.

It potentiates LSD and Benzodiazepine which has some irony.

The combination of the three, with strong cannabis flooding the system always, really negates any a trip diminishing action from benzos too, it's like a pyramidal thing.

Shilajit is a lot more than hyped fulvic acids, except there is much counterfeit shilajit.

Like Himalayan salt. It varies more than MDMA in truth. Lots is inferior, mined by explosives, from poor mine areas, or Pakistan mines.

It's the reason I use Redmond Real Salt exclusively unless I can be sure the Himalayan I have is supreme, like the best there is.

But Redmond is supreme, no variation plus very high in silica too,hence it being greyish not pink, no iron like Himalayan but iron is am easy find, silica much lacking and so beneficial.


Shilajit does certainly work by itself, independantly and noticeably.

As soon as I first took it, it felt like talking MDA on top of acid. It very strongly potentiated the LSD.

Was December. 1000 mics. Loads good weed.

Then unexpected 1st try Shilajit potentiation.

But as soon as I made kava after leaving it off overnight a very rare 24 hour gap, I was stunned!

I have tried some drug combinations. LSD + Shilajit + Kava (cannabis always but ymmv) is really special.

It works instantly too.

You could take it, leave it. Will always influence the psychoactivity of the Kavalactones. Kava should come with Shilajit, lol saying....if you are not satisfied or impressed enough....add Shilajit!


I have had so so many bad trips. Worst one ever 2 weeks ago, really stitched myself up on 260 mics, in 40 Celcius and wrong time place and condition.

I've had lots though, but that one really takes the biscuit as we say.

So I understand relate and empathise.

I think in future, a powerful strong prep of decent anxiolytic kava, you could have sedated that bad turn very quickly.

And had an incredible trip. I encourage!

Thanks for the mention of clinoptilolite I will keep note.

Again I'm odds on bound to be allergic, but my mum might be able to use it.

I have been urging her to get some Zeolite for years.

Chlorophyll too is hailed.

 

[Drunk on Kombucha]

Hey. You write excellently. Your thinking is clear. Thanks for your thoughts.

Kava will definitely serve as that cushion. It compliments psychedelics and vice versa extremely well.

It potentiates LSD and Benzodiazepine which has some irony.

The combination of the three, with strong cannabis flooding the system always, really negates any a trip diminishing action from benzos too, it's like a pyramidal thing.

Shilajit is a lot more than hyped fulvic acids, except there is much counterfeit shilajit.

Like Himalayan salt. It varies more than MDMA in truth. Lots is inferior, mined by explosives, from poor mine areas, or Pakistan mines.

It's the reason I use Redmond Real Salt exclusively unless I can be sure the Himalayan I have is supreme, like the best there is.

But Redmond is supreme, no variation plus very high in silica too,hence it being greyish not pink, no iron like Himalayan but iron is am easy find, silica much lacking and so beneficial.


Shilajit does certainly work by itself, independantly and noticeably.

As soon as I first took it, it felt like talking MDA on top of acid. It very strongly potentiated the LSD.

Was December. 1000 mics. Loads good weed.

Then unexpected 1st try Shilajit potentiation.

But as soon as I made kava after leaving it off overnight a very rare 24 hour gap, I was stunned!

I have tried some drug combinations. LSD + Shilajit + Kava (cannabis always but ymmv) is really special.

It works instantly too.

You could take it, leave it. Will always influence the psychoactivity of the Kavalactones. Kava should come with Shilajit, lol saying....if you are not satisfied or impressed enough....add Shilajit!


I have had so so many bad trips. Worst one ever 2 weeks ago, really stitched myself up on 260 mics, in 40 Celcius and wrong time place and condition.

I've had lots though, but that one really takes the biscuit as we say.

So I understand relate and empathise.

I think in future, a powerful strong prep of decent anxiolytic kava, you could have sedated that bad turn very quickly.

And had an incredible trip. I encourage!

Thanks for the mention of clinoptilolite I will keep note.

Again I'm odds on bound to be allergic, but my mum might be able to use it.

I have been urging her to get some Zeolite for years.

Chlorophyll too is hailed.

Thanks man. And hey, I meant to mention, glad to see you still around here! I didn't remember at first but realized we talked a good bit in the past when I was around. Also glad to see G Chem around. Others I do not remember and apologize if we conversed before but hope you are all well nonetheless.

I will definitely have some redied up for my next experience. I'm thinking about doing a mild maybe 1.2-1.5g shroom trip here soon (2gs of these does me pretty decent) to get my feet back in the water and I bet kava will be beneficial if I need some comfort. Kratom tends to be good too but most of my trips in part tend to be centered not taking kratom/taking less so it kind of defeats the point, plus for me it doesn't always synergize with psychedelics. But that's the thing, if kava would potentially have a bad interaction with serotonergic substances then it could have just made things worse at the time. But I am thinking I may start leaning back toward what I used to do which is just use those drugs as trip enhancers in smaller amounts.

I'm gonna look into the shilajit. I haven't really had a problem with kava nit being enough, it is mild and strong at the same time and not difficult for me to get pretty turnt on.

I had forgotten about the allergies. Have you tried mega dosing vitamin C? My friend is going on about it all the time for it basically being able to help with like everything. He also highly recommends a low dose ayahuasca trip for meditation which I was thinking of doing next too. I guess in a weekend or two when the time comes I'll decide if I want a peaceful time or a bit more of an adventure and choose between the two. I'm glad I'm doing better for now however, though I did end up taking the week off work to recover just because my brain felt such a mess. DMSO and palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) as well as a few shroom microdoses seem to have helped me balance out better I think.

What was this about nanotech and illusory realm? I am curious. I'm open to all the conspiracy stuff and find myself quite intrigued with concepts of metaphysical reality as well. After my first san pedro trip, it was like the doors blew wide open and ever since I've become somewhat aware of a new sense. I think all that stuff has as much power over us as we let it though.

 

[Neuroborean]

Ayurvedic formulas like Triphala. Decent probiotics, homemade water kefir or kombucha, it goes on and on.

Allergies simply deprive me. It's really amazing I survive, and so invisible too.

I would add Haritaki to that. I never need persuading of the virtues of natural medicinal herbs.

But I can't even imagine not being allergic to it, by gut and from experience. It's always been a tease too.

You gonna laugh but man, I think you're contradicting yourself without realizing,
triphala HAS haritaki in it, there's 3 herbs in it, amla, haritaki and some other I don't remember.
So then if you add more haritaki (or maybe reduce triphala and only tak haritaki) I doubt you could react negatively to haritaki alone (terminalia chebula) if you didn't react negatively to triphala.

Shilajit is a lot more than hyped fulvic acids, except there is much counterfeit shilajit.

Like Himalayan salt. It varies more than MDMA in truth. Lots is inferior, mined by explosives, from poor mine areas, or Pakistan mines.

Sounds interesting, always wanted to get some shilajit but it seems sketchy, not knowing the proper sources... and most vendors don't specify very much.

I do indeed owe you a pm sorry man, this business is so gruesome and horrific though, the dark reality of Nanotech and the illusory reality in which we are so controlled, it took me a long time to devlop a manner of bringing it into regular ordinary disussion with context and meaning, like a serious personal intellectual work to the point where it just rolls off my tongue, as far as I am sure.


It's hard suddenly to talk about it. The stage, what's actuly happened this year, and last few months>weeks>week>days.

Trauma has thoroughly shattered me.

Well, don't worry, take care of yourself. Do it when you feel ok and it's not a pressure to do it.
I forgot about doing it, and stayed too much here (in forums in generaL) and procrastinating due to the damn adhd and well, I got very bad numbers (diabetes type 1) it was fucked. I finally managed to start my master thesis so know I feel more on the flow but I feel I cannot quit kratom till I have at least 1/3 of the master's shit.
Being addicted is shitty, even if it's just plain, soft dependence, barely without harm.

What was this about nanotech and illusory realm? I am curious. I'm open to all the conspiracy stuff and find myself quite intrigued with concepts of metaphysical reality as well. After my first san pedro trip, it was like the doors blew wide open and ever since I've become somewhat aware of a new sense. I think all that stuff has as much power over us as we let it though.

Have you ever used DMT? Brokethrough? for me it was the tipping point, I was open to "conspiracies" specially after 2019-20, but that was the last drop of the ocean to stir and shed the basis of existence and common beliefs/dogmas. You start realizing that a lot of ancient knowledge and supposedly fantastic stuff that religions talk about could be perfectly real, and probably much more than that can be perfectly real.