Opioids Weird dreams / speaking and moving during REM sleep

[plumbus-nine]

Anybody else getting intense dreams and speaking/shouting during sleep while on morphine or another opioid (happened with bupe and done as well but most intensely with morphine). It all started when I got on bupe together with venlafaxine and slowly faded after stopping morphine. Now a single dose of morph is enough to trigger the condition again and it even happens without any drugs from time to time.

I think it's what is called REM sleep movement disorder, a rare condition in which the body isn't fully immobilized during REM sleep causing one to act and speak out of dreams, basically related to sleepwalking. I didn't found any reports about this so far, just Wikipedia tells that dogs are the more affected species, lol. And that melatonin was the treatment of choice but it does absolutely nothing for me, nor did antihistamines or benzos help with the condition.

It's kinda annoying and disturbing specially for a partner but also myself.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Mine is due to going off my antipsychotic recently. I've been having night terrors, sleep paralysis, talking in my sleep and even pissed the fucking bed.

Going on, coming off drugs can definitely create abnormalities

 

[plumbus-nine]

I had lucid dreams, sleep paralysis etc. on a few occasions from various drugs/psychopharmaceuticals, most pronounced was with trazodone where the dreams were blended with reality, e.g. flying around with my mattress or seeing a female zombie next to my bed watching me.. I think that SSRIs generally increase REM activity, as do antipsychotics upon cessation by whatever mechanism.

But the opioids/morphine is unique to me in that it isn't just upon increasing and/or decreasing the dosage but continues to go on as long as I have some in my system. I quit morphine around a year ago and with it I would finally stop shouting during dreaming, and recently I found some left over capsules, took 60mg and boom again this shit. Some recreational drugs like dissociatives also increase the intensity of dreams but nothing else besides morphine did REM sleep movements.

 

[Eligiu]

I have REM Sleep Behaviour Disorder. It causes issues in my life like me being disruptive to other people while sleeping in common spaces or at friends houses. God forbid I ever had a partner. It's secondary to narcolepsy and childhood trauma in my case (trauma can trigger it, very frequently).

I used to thrash around in bed, talk, mutter, yell, and jerk awake a lot. This would sometimes continue all through the night if my nightmares were particularly bad.

Currently, I don't have bad issues with REM SBD as due to being on prazosin that's kind of solved that issue, so it has gotten better over the last two years or so I'd say.

My sleep specialist has put me on high dose melatonin rather than the klonopin he initially put me on which I subsequently very rapidly abused.

If you want to talk more about it with someone who has dealt with this disorder to the extent of once when my then housemate tried to wake me up and I tried to stab him with the knife I slept with right after I'd stopped being homeless. He would often get me to sleep on mattress in his room when I got sober off drugs in 2017 because my nightmares got out of control and he would need to wake me up during the night at times when I was getting too loud.

It also used to disrupt me when I volunteered on camps with foster kids and only two people on camp were allowed to wake me up as I would only recognise their voices, if I needed to be woken for dorm duty. If anyone else woke me up I would react violently to the intrusion and start to punch on.

Friends know to kick me with their feet and dodge when waking me up is concerned.

I can't imagine having a girlfriend or a boyfriend and actually sharing a bed with them, in case my issues start up again. It would just be totally impossible for another person to tolerate it. Which sucks, but that's just what it is. I don't date for multiple reasons but this was always a big one.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Oh yeah this is it. Sorry to read what impact it has on your life, you seem to have gotten it in a worse intensity than myself. Didn't read about the relation to trauma yet but very possible that this was the cause in myself as well, and the medications just exacerbate the condition. I went through severe childhood as well as possibly adult trauma and couldn't find a suited therapy yet. Makes sense then why even now off all meds I sometimes babble or shout during the nights. I have a gf who is very tolerant about this stuff, she doesn't work full time so is less in need of the best sleep possible but I know that I'm probably lucky, and for how little things some people write you off. I'm quite shameful about because I can't control it. I've lost a bunch of rooms (couldn't afford a whole flat) due to the condition and one volunteer job when I still didn't know about the condition and when in psych ward they'd try all sorts of meds (which usually boils down to antidepressants, antipsychotics, benzos/Z-drugs) and then eventually give me a single room. One roommate almost attacked me physically because he thought I'd play the condition or whatever.

Interesting about the prazosin, I've tried clonidine which has an indication for night terrors but it didn't solve the problem, yet was this during me being on morphine which exacerbated the condition. Also made me a bit more depressive. Will see if I can get prazosin to try it out, thanks!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have a lot of sleep abnormalities from drugs and alcohol, but mostly hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations and sleep paralysis. I don't think I have a movement disorder.

I never really got used to it. Sucks every time.

 

[Eligiu]

Oh yeah this is it. Sorry to read what impact it has on your life, you seem to have gotten it in a worse intensity than myself. Didn't read about the relation to trauma yet but very possible that this was the cause in myself as well, and the medications just exacerbate the condition. I went through severe childhood as well as possibly adult trauma and couldn't find a suited therapy yet. Makes sense then why even now off all meds I sometimes babble or shout during the nights. I have a gf who is very tolerant about this stuff, she doesn't work full time so is less in need of the best sleep possible but I know that I'm probably lucky, and for how little things some people write you off. I'm quite shameful about because I can't control it. I've lost a bunch of rooms (couldn't afford a whole flat) due to the condition and one volunteer job when I still didn't know about the condition and when in psych ward they'd try all sorts of meds (which usually boils down to antidepressants, antipsychotics, benzos/Z-drugs) and then eventually give me a single room. One roommate almost attacked me physically because he thought I'd play the condition or whatever.

Interesting about the prazosin, I've tried clonidine which has an indication for night terrors but it didn't solve the problem, yet was this during me being on morphine which exacerbated the condition. Also made me a bit more depressive. Will see if I can get prazosin to try it out, thanks!

Yeah mine was really bad until the nightmares improved, because the actual issue with RSMB is that your body doesn't send the hormone? I think hormone which paralyses your body during REM sleep so instead you end up acting out your dreams intensely.

Seroquel can make it much worse, according to my sleep specialist and I noted that as well when I've had to be on it for mania.

For me I literally couldn't share a house with someone without waking them up. The amount of times I slept at a certain friends house whose living area with the couch was very close to his bedroom caused me a lot of embarrassment even though he dealt with it well. He would leave the door open for me in case I started screaming but leave his door shut (so the hallway door was open) and every morning when he would wake up I would have already been awake for 1-2 hours miserably pondering how much I ruined his sleep when he would cheerily emerge and ask me how I slept. I'd say badly, and make a comment that I knew he already knew that but every time I was there he would adamantly state that he slept like a baby all through the night and didn't hear a single noise.

I know for a fact that this is untrue because I have had so many experiences of people telling me how much noise and movement I make when I'm asleep, and when I did my overnight sleep studies for Narcolepsy the machine recorded me moaning and talking all night and a significant amount of leg movement more so than what would normally be expected.

I would very much suggest booking in with a sleep specialist who knows about REM Sleep Behaviour Disorder. The first line treatment for it is actually Klonopin, which if you can use responsibility is very effective. If not, high dose melatonin is another option and doing trauma therapy. Also looking into prazosin or clonadine as you mentioned. But start with the specialist and see if you can book in for a sleep study so they can get a good look at what is going on, that's my crucial piece of advice as someone who has dealt with this.

Occasionally I still have nights where it's an issue, like if I'm sleeping in an unfamiliar place, but I've lived alone in a private rental since late 2018 so I can really make all the noise I want and I'm fine.

However I do remember how embarrassing it is so I'm empathic. You feel bad for ruining other people's sleep.

 

[Neuroborean]

Anybody else getting intense dreams and speaking/shouting during sleep while on morphine or another opioid (happened with bupe and done as well but most intensely with morphine). It all started when I got on bupe together with venlafaxine and slowly faded after stopping morphine. Now a single dose of morph is enough to trigger the condition again and it even happens without any drugs from time to time.

I think it's what is called REM sleep movement disorder, a rare condition in which the body isn't fully immobilized during REM sleep causing one to act and speak out of dreams, basically related to sleepwalking. I didn't found any reports about this so far, just Wikipedia tells that dogs are the more affected species, lol. And that melatonin was the treatment of choice but it does absolutely nothing for me, nor did antihistamines or benzos help with the condition.

It's kinda annoying and disturbing specially for a partner but also myself.

venlafaxine and desvenlafaxine can cause that,
I know because I've seen it myself several times.

 

[plumbus-nine]

venlafaxine and desvenlafaxine can cause that,
I know because I've seen it myself several times.

I was on venlafaxine 150mg/d for many years without this problem, it only appeared after an episode of big stress (homelessness, losing my first long term gf etc) and opioids escalated it as well as they do trigger. Nowadays, off all meds and drugs, it faded mostly but would instantly re-appear upon taking morphine (not so with kratom) and to a lesser degree with antidepressants. It's weird, indeed the best explanation would be that trauma induces this condition and some pharms exacerbate it.

Makes sense that reason is a hormone which isn't secreted as it should. Do you know how this hormone is called?

Yeah for sure it's embarrassing stuff. first I thought people would set me up when they said I'd scream and shout as I was single during the time this emerged and of course people couldn't talk directly to me but went over the landlord and weren't exactly nice (which I understand).

Weird about the morphine, so many people are on either that or heroin and I never read about others having this problem.