Do you believe “addicts” can ever use again in moderation / safety?

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

For some time. I remember when I had prescriptions I could stash anything and make it last. But in the end, addiction will creep up for sure.

 

[CFC]

I'm sure some can, and that it varies from person to person. But on the whole it's definitely a 'playing with fire' type risk, as most won't be able to substantially rewire that addictive drug-induced reward/motivation pathway onto other more powerful non-drug related things.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

Nope, eventually the house of cards will fall

 

[lovemissile66]

Sort of.

I use opioids occasionally maybe 2x to .25x a week. And i used to be a fiend amongst fiends.

But id rather not. And these days i can only keep a very limited supply or ill use it all with little self control. So i suppose the real answer is probably not. What im able to do however is avoid serious physical addiction. Ive become very good at that. Ive haven't exceed mild physical addiction for perhaps 8 years now. And in the past i have been extremely physically addicted. Hopelessly even.

Playing with fire.

Benzos are another story. I can't go more than 1x every 30 days without a nasty rebound. Ive been seriously addicted to benzos a few times so i get serious rebound from just a single large dose. Benzo withdrawal puts the fear of god in me. Opioid withdrawal isn't a fraction as bad in comparison thus my hubris insofar as me fucking with them.

I have a serious question about benzos for you, as you seem not only by your distinguished photo, but a fairly versed person on benzos. Last year I was prescribed .25 xanax, for anxiety and to help sleep.
Baby dose. Upped the .25 to .05. Slept maybe 2 hours tops. I know xan is fast acting but short acting. Now, a year later and my script went up to .05, I get 120 a month and normally only use two a day.
So, my problem is when I am kicking heroin and I start eating those xanz like M&M's. I will eat 4 at night, sleep maybe 4 hours. Eat 2-3 more. Sleep, maybe. How should I titrate back down to a normal
for me (2 a night ) pill situation????? Any advise would be great. Because the last time I went through this and it was only for a couple weeks, I threw up.
thanks!!!

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

The only problem with addictions is negative health consequences..

If you are healthy of mind and body, then why the need to quit?

You don't need to quit, as your very healthy, because you're not addict. Therefore, keep on chugging and partying. Addicts cannot do moderate. It doesn't work. The mind body and soul once the taste in their (my) mouth - I'm done. They're done and hopefully temporarily.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Some non addicts can get dysoxyn and not abuse it. There are so many factors but I would bet, that they probably have a solid support network, shit to do, generally enjoy life, and feel like a contributing member of society. Connected, in other words.

 

[Neuroborean]

I think it depends on so many things:
1- Set & Setting.
2- highest level of addiction/tolerance
3- which drug

For example, it's not the same a high level of addiction with heroin having a bad time and then relapsing than a low-level of addiction with kratom on an easy period of your life so then relapsing..

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

Some non addicts can get dysoxyn and not abuse it. There are so many factors but I would bet, that they probably have a solid support network, shit to do, generally enjoy life, and feel like a contributing member of society. Connected, in other words.

In the context your speaking when you use the word 'factors' a synonym to that would be - TRIGGERS. They'll get there. Remember, addiction is this little man of disease that hides in the dark corners of your being. He waits, and waits, and waits patiently SPECIALLY if he sees the addict is using. It's not if, it's when. I can only laugh MTU and I'm sorry for that. Ever hear the song from an old kids program Lamb Chops Playalong (way back in the day)? It went like this:

This is the song that never ends.
It just goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was.
And, they’ll continue singing it forever, just because
This is the song that never ends…

Just like the disease and the temptation and the triggers - forget triggers now, we're at the source. Let's be real here MTU. Triggers are one thing. Those are dangers enough. Places, situations, people that you used to hang around with, certain actions, it could be smells, literally a trigger can be anything unique to the addict. A trigger prompts the addict to go and use again, and jump right into his DENIAL mindset, he'll tell himself that first time something like - I haven't drank in 5 years. This will just be a little taste - plus it's warm out, plus it'll just be one, if you're addict you know these behaviours. You're giving yourself every reason to use in that very moment in your life. You may not get drunk that day, you may not drink for 5 weeks. Then guess what. You're gonna convince yourself with a thought like this (I'll use my name for the example): Well Daniel, you didn't drink for 5 years, you had 1 cold refreshing that day it was 102 degrees, it was icy and cold and so good, (it's cooler this day at 101 - lol) 5 years 5 weeks since the last one - and it's still hot. You'll go and have another one or maybe two (wife wasn't done shopping - that's a good reason - I mean what were you gonna do - wait in the car - it's only 1 beer not 20 - and maybe you do leave this - again. That little diseased man in your head is poking his head out and watching your vulnerabilities he knows your weaknesses he's that little voice that convinced you're doing awesome.

Triggers are one thing but to actually consume the substance that has wreaked on your life in the past? Come on. Talk to me in a year and see where that addict is. The addict will face two choices turn around and go the other or he/she is going down for the dread round of relapse. Often, but not always, a relapse's consequences are actually worse than the initial addiction.

Anyway, blah blah blah! I said enough. And I need to get off this thread. I feel like I'm starting to get triggered. I know I'm weird and I'm outta here. So long.

 

[Jabberwocky]

No, you're right, once you get that addiction.. it's like you're forever allergic.

I'm just saying, some people never even get to that point.

@6am-64-14m

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

For some time. I remember when I had prescriptions I could stash anything and make it last. But in the end, addiction will creep up f

For some time. I remember when I had prescriptions I could stash anything and make it last. But in the end, addiction will creep up for sure.

Hey Schizopath. That was a really good question. As you scroll down, you start see those that understand and those that don't So it's best that I leave. Amazing questions that get people to talk.

 

[PtahTek]

I'm just saying, some people never even get to that point.

Or fight to not go there again with all they have (which can be substantial).
And general boredom of the serious repercussions that come with everything all the time.
Not exactly sure if I interpreted yer post correctly as I am starting to get sleepy. Thank GOD the current crisis is passing; quickest I ever came out of this recurring oppresion of spirit but love feom bobo, bl and bromazolam helped bunches.
Anyway....
I love your ass, bro. Always have.
You an asset anywhere ya at and I know an asset when I see one.
Peace

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

No, you're right, once you get that addiction.. it's like you're forever allergic.

I'm just saying, some people never even get to that point.

@6am-64-14m

And you're right most people don't and they can drunk or stoned twice three 4 times a month and they're good. They have their jobs, families, etc..... I totally envy them. Bastards. Personally I was like that, but each and every time, I tried a new drug FUCK - well I should say I was selective and they just kind of came about due to circumstances and you try for fun, a couple more times, you're addicted but you don't it yet, you call up your buddy can we get more, 1 month, your fucking sucking that crack pipe, then it's meth, back to alcohol which is why I tried crack (for fun) what a cycle. I'm sober 12 years September 26 this year. I had my last drink of alcohol. Sober on crack April 28, 2007, sober from crystal meth January 26, 2014 - fucked up almost 5 years later with that little prick of vulnerability and just out NO FUCKING WHERE, I decided (out of the fucking blue - no blaming I lost my dad, my grandma died, whatever those bullshit excuse - fucking take responsibility for your actions and you will make it. That fucking simple September 2019 again brother. This time it was coke. Fucking high was better all of the others different, I thought I could handle by June last year I was $5,000 a month on coke, I have hole in my septum (I don't think it's because of the drug - I think it's more additives they use but I can't blame them.) They didn't come to me - I went looking for them. I'm almost 60 and somehow I've been blessed with amazing health. Yet again I had to fuck things up for myself. Anyway, August 30th, 2021, DUDE I fucking quit. Just like that. Cold fucking turkey. A really rough month and half. My little rituals and rewards were all gone. FUUUUCK. But I couldn't let this happen. With each passing day I started to not so much feel better but some how feel stronger. Fast Forward to last friday July 22. My wife, and 2 daughters had left for Sacramento California. My sister in law lives there - my wife's sister. They left Wednesday, and all I could think about was using. It ate away in my head like a fucking virus. The thought of doing some lines was eating away like a cancer. I tried to keep busy, was working Friday afternoon this is painting garage, I could tell that he either knew someone or he someone that knew someone that had some. I was doing lines by 8:30 happier than a pig in shit, with a sore nose that is killing me right now. Well less now that this morning.

Shit! I keep doing this. I start writing and I can't stop. There's so much to say and share. So I apologize for this banter or rant but I'm calling it day. Talk to you another time. Have an amazing evening.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

i voted NO

 

[Jabberwocky]

And you're right most people don't and they can drunk or stoned twice three 4 times a month and they're good. They have their jobs, families, etc..... I totally envy them. Bastards. Personally I was like that, but each and every time, I tried a new drug FUCK - well I should say I was selective and they just kind of came about due to circumstances and you try for fun, a couple more times, you're addicted but you don't it yet, you call up your buddy can we get more, 1 month, your fucking sucking that crack pipe, then it's meth, back to alcohol which is why I tried crack (for fun) what a cycle. I'm sober 12 years September 26 this year. I had my last drink of alcohol. Sober on crack April 28, 2007, sober from crystal meth January 26, 2014 - fucked up almost 5 years later with that little prick of vulnerability and just out NO FUCKING WHERE, I decided (out of the fucking blue - no blaming I lost my dad, my grandma died, whatever those bullshit excuse - fucking take responsibility for your actions and you will make it. That fucking simple September 2019 again brother. This time it was coke. Fucking high was better all of the others different, I thought I could handle by June last year I was $5,000 a month on coke, I have hole in my septum (I don't think it's because of the drug - I think it's more additives they use but I can't blame them.) They didn't come to me - I went looking for them. I'm almost 60 and somehow I've been blessed with amazing health. Yet again I had to fuck things up for myself. Anyway, August 30th, 2021, DUDE I fucking quit. Just like that. Cold fucking turkey. A really rough month and half. My little rituals and rewards were all gone. FUUUUCK. But I couldn't let this happen. With each passing day I started to not so much feel better but some how feel stronger. Fast Forward to last friday July 22. My wife, and 2 daughters had left for Sacramento California. My sister in law lives there - my wife's sister. They left Wednesday, and all I could think about was using. It ate away in my head like a fucking virus. The thought of doing some lines was eating away like a cancer. I tried to keep busy, was working Friday afternoon this is painting garage, I could tell that he either knew someone or he someone that knew someone that had some. I was doing lines by 8:30 happier than a pig in shit, with a sore nose that is killing me right now. Well less now that this morning.

Shit! I keep doing this. I start writing and I can't stop. There's so much to say and share. So I apologize for this banter or rant but I'm calling it day. Talk to you another time. Have an amazing evening.

Well, this isn't NA or AA, but at bluelight people tend to understand us without pressing us to go one way or another. We're all just people, with people problems - mean, loving, beautiful

Thanks for sharing and I wish the best for you

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

Well, this isn't NA or AA, but at bluelight people tend to understand us without pressing us to go one way or another. We're all just people, with people problems - mean, loving, beautiful

Thanks for sharing and I wish the best for you

MTU is that how I made you feel? If so, I sincerely apologize. I think I was talking more to myself than to you or anyone reading the post. Well, I quit smoking I quit 3 very powerful drugs, and I also quit drinking I did have a relapse in September 2019, then pulled it off again in August of 2021. So I firmly believe, between you and me that this little bit I have left is the last of it. I am very aware of how I feel what I feel etc..... And unlike the previous relapse, I am 'feeling' it to continue. I'm not having that nervous feeling, the anxiety when you're close to running of your supply.

Also I certainly wasn't trying to press you to go my way, although I am very passionate about that belief and in my life experiences, couple with two stays that I initiated and went to because I knew I couldn't do it alone, I've NEVER ever ever knowns someone (and actual addict - the people that need the substance both physically and psychologically) to actually be able to even have the slightest taste of their 'dessert of choice' without falling / relapsing. None the less, if you think people can do it, than all the power to them. Before even considering the thought of doing that, I already know I would fail. Thus for me, it is total and unequivocal abstinence even food that is cooked in alcohol I do not eat it. That is how scared I am of using again. Any restaurant we go to, (sit down type restaurants) I often ask if the food is cooked in alcohol. Why take the chance right? Why 'potentially' set myself up to fail.

MTU - my family for California last Wednesday. And Since I quit using cocaine Aug.30 / 2021 I started work for this company and I work from doing support. (I called in sick. I just didn't want to go) Anyway, this job and the fact that I'd just quit using, caused me to gain 26.4 lbs. I've always been between 140 and 147 during my adult life and I'm 5'9". So fit and slim. Not skinny. Anyhow, I gained that weight because well my job is 6 days a week (50 hours) and it's evenings. My wife works from also during the day. So to be safe, and not allow myself to be tempted, basically avoid walking into trigger situations, I just stayed home and watch movies during mornings and early afternoons. I know boring life - at least in the past year. But that's ok, I'm not using, I'm safe, with my family, make a little money and we're good.

BUT 26.4 ls UNREAL. I've never ever ever been 'big' as I was. (notice I spoke the past tense? LOLOL) They left at 3:00 pm the 20th of July, and about an hour before they left I hopped on the scale 166.4. I felt so much disgust and self-loathing. When I showered I just couldn't bare to look at myself in the mirror because I couldn't stand this person. I hate everything about how I look. I'm ok with a receding hair line, it is what it is. I'm ok with wrinkles - (some wrinkles) it's life. But to just pack on that much fat, on my body disgusted me. I told my wife, not that you're leaving WATCH WHAT I do. I set three goals. The first was to hit below 160 before Sunday (from Wednesday to Sunday) 159.9 or better. Well BAM! At midnight Sunday night I weighed 158.8. Giddy up said Kramer. LOLOL

My next goal was to hit 155 by Friday and we are only Tuesday. I weighed myself around 11 am earlier today and I hit 157 lbs EXACTLY. In 6 short days (at midnight will be 7 (technically early tomorrow afternoon) I may hit 156.4. That would translate into 10 lbs in 1 full week. I will be so pumped. I still the gut that is where all the weight was. I don't have a problem with being overweight, but for it's just NOT A SOMETHING I'm gonna allow because it's a situation or circumstance I can change just addiction. My wife would always give shit for eating very little and I love food. So I told I'm goin my usual OCD when she's and I challenged her and said: What are you gonna do? Come home and cook or come and reprimand? lololol That's what she normally does. Anyway the whole point here was that, there was negativity within me that I needed to rid myself of and I knew I could do it. I put a plan of action and executed. I tried that speech on my daughter last via text. LOLOL Wasn't a good idea. lolol Anyway wish me luck to hit 150 on Friday 7 lbs to go. It's gonna be tough. I will just push myself tomorrow and Thursday and do 2 extra km.

Honestly I don't know why I'm writing so much. It's just one thing right into another. Anyway you seem like a very nice person MTU. Again, my sincere apology for sounding pushy, rough and over the top. In hindsight, I think I was just writing 'in general' my thoughts and sentiments as quickly as fingers could - at least for the most part. Anyhow, have an amazing day and take good care of yourself. I'm sure we'll see each other again here sometime.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ I'll read that when I have more time, but no you didn't make me feel any particular way, I just wanted to let you know that people here are understanding

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

I have a serious question about benzos for you, as you seem not only by your distinguished photo, but a fairly versed person on benzos. Last year I was prescribed .25 xanax, for anxiety and to help sleep.
Baby dose. Upped the .25 to .05. Slept maybe 2 hours tops. I know xan is fast acting but short acting. Now, a year later and my script went up to .05, I get 120 a month and normally only use two a day.
So, my problem is when I am kicking heroin and I start eating those xanz like M&M's. I will eat 4 at night, sleep maybe 4 hours. Eat 2-3 more. Sleep, maybe. How should I titrate back down to a normal
for me (2 a night ) pill situation????? Any advise would be great. Because the last time I went through this and it was only for a couple weeks, I threw up.
thanks!!!

I thought you were writing my short story with Clonazepam. It was only when I felt anxiety. The four prescriptions I received none made it past day 10 of the month. the last didn't last a week. I could see where that was going. I pulled myself completely off of those. Lovemissile it seems like you've answered or the answer to your question. I know your question is / was for Negrogesic. If I may, I would like to say that, the best thing of all about your post is that you recognize where this is going. You know it, you're aware and now it's for LoveMissile66 to do something. I would think he, Negrogesic, would tell you that you should see your doctor. Not next week not Friday but tomorrow - no questions but tomorrow the more you wait, the more difficult it gets and the deeper you sink into the rabbit hole. You got this LoveMissile. I know you can do it. You know the problem. You articulated it. You have to want to slow down, and from I can see the doctor better find a different medication for you. It's considered a narcotic here in Canada. I presume it's the same in the states? Either way, they're dangerous for vulnerable people. I had said yes to my doctor but inside I was thinking like an addict. He'd asked me if I felt OK them and only when I need them. That's like leaving a bag of crack on the counter at a crack house and saying: Guys only take a little bit if you need it. That shit would be smoked before he reached the door - if he made lolol. But I say (in my opinion) see the doctor and tell him exactly what you said here. The truth. DON'T sugar coat it and say I take 2 or 3 ........... eeh sometimes 4 if I really need it. (and boy you do) You're gonna get that panic attack when you visit the doctor - you know that right? No doubt about it. Can I ask how you were getting so many? I mean I can obviously figure it out. There's only so many ways - street or visiting multiple clinics. Are you gonna be ok? Because I'm just thinking if you're getting on the street for those remaining 21 days in the month, this could be setting yourself up for a meltdown. If you're struggling at home with the Xanax because the doctor reduced your prescription or is still only giving you the 30 day supply, things may not change. Do you think you'll be ok?

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

^ I'll read that when I have more time, but no you didn't make me feel any particular way, I just wanted to let you know that people here are understanding

Ok. Then my apology is for everyone. Sorry guys for sound so pushy argumentative and mean spirited is a bit strong because I could my own anger as I wrote. Had you been beside you would have heard me. I actually the words I type out loud. It helps have flow to my posts and sentences. I guess that wasn't a good to start as a new member. I'll start over. I have my happy face on. LOLOL tHANKS MTU.

Nope, eventually the house of cards will fall

I need some information......................................................................first.
Just the basic facts
Can you tell me where it hurts.

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

Some non addicts can get dysoxyn and not abuse it. There are so many factors but I would bet, that they probably have a solid support network, shit to do, generally enjoy life, and feel like a contributing member of society. Connected, in other words.

MTU is dysoxyn the medication alcoholics use whereby if they have a drink they'll get violently ill?

 

[TheWealthyAddict]

I think they can use their non drug of choice
but that is not an option up there

I don’t think that everyone for instance will be lead back to full blown addiction by say smoking a joint if their doc was iv heroin or crack like I’ve heard a million times in 12 step based recovery

but for some people it will and it does

I think you have to be really honest with yourself about what you are capable of using safely

and when you reach for that drink is the urge to do your drug of choice already rattling around in the back of your head?

if that is the case then it’s not the alcohol that made you relapse the alcohol was a convenient backdoor to the relapse you were already fantasizing about

I never thought of weed as a addictive drug. It isn't in the real sense of addiction. I remember when I went to rehab the first time. You have the usual addicts that are crack addicts, those doing Oxys, some alcoholics, very few heroin addicts, coke users - specially those that inject, etc.... Then there was this tall, skinny kid. He was in first year University and he was there because he was smoking too much weed. I tell you Jane when he said that was his addiction there was this 'awkward silence'. Most were there with some serious living issues (streets), some in shelters, some just living in shit holes, etc..... Of course he was living with Mom and Dad, it was just very awkward. So you mentioned smoking a joint that never enters my mind. The weirdest thing at 13 I started smoking weed up until the last was 2005 - but I was barely a smoker either. However, I can remember that last time. I was working for a company called Krave Fabrics. I was doing overtime and it was some work in the warehouse because they just expanded to a new and larger facility so there still setting up. The manger would ask me if I could assist after I was done work in the office - this went on for about a month. This guy I knew where I worked part-time (Best Western Hotel and Convention Centre) and just gave me the joint and I said nah not really. He kept insisting. So I took it. One day I just the urge I'm gonna take a few tokes of the joint since I was working in the warehouse, alone, music blasting, etc... So I took the joint with me to work and as per my plan, I did take few tokes. WOW! Fucking WOW. When I grew, weed wasn't that potent and I only took 3 tokes and not very big, unlike when I used crack - I have huge lung capacity. Anyway Jane, I was on my knees. My heart was pounding so fucking hard and fast. You have to know I have very low blood pressure. My heart rate is in the mid to high 40's. I was dying - in the sense that I didn't like this high at all. I didn't expect to be this stoned. I stopped the music I started crying, and crying, and I was on my knees and praying to Jesus to make this go away right now.

Of course that's not what happened I paced and walked and self-talked myself out of that high after 20 - 30 minutes. Fuck. I'm it wasn't laced with anything. I least I hope not. Unreal. You don't hear of people having a bad trip smoking weed. You do with some other stronger drugs but for me it was a BAD TRIP and THEE last time I ever smoked a joint. Yet, I go and try crack. I immediately fell in love it and it just turned my life upside from the end of December 2006 to April 28, 2007 just under $100,000 lost some was the franchise convenience store we'd just bought, the stock in the store and all the revenues I spent on crack it was almost instantaneous. My GOD. My first hit. It was just for fun. You know just to Hey Lets get buzzed. FUCK! I was it's immediate slave. Anyway back to the topic at hand.

Maybe smoking some weed would actually eaze some of their suffering but I doubt it. Although you are 100% correct. Weed won't lead them there. Being in the wrong place will. (wherever they hung around when they were addicted) being with the wrong people, maybe hearing music that instantly takes them to those times of using, sooooooooooo many littles things and the user who is trying to stay sober needs to know what these triggers are in order to avoid them. When I used to go to my mother-in-laws place when I first smoking crystal meth with my brother in law (he lived there) and it's like this shady apartment building for seniors but it's in a high drug area of the city of Toronto, I would ALWAYS be triggered. And my wife at the time, didn't really understand what I felt and how I felt. I tried to tell her but she would say: So I'm supposed to let my mother starve. That's what we did, we brought groceries cleaned some, etc.... Her son didn't do shit, but he was contact for obtaining Crystal Meth so he got a pass. Anyway, the smell in that building just sets me off. I'm weird because if I am in these run down places, they kind of have a bad smell of just, I don't kwow even know how to word, it's a smell where (and I hate to stereotype but) where poorer people live, and that smell, is so poignant to me. I actually love that smell. I know it's f-ing stupid, but it reminds me of circumstances of MOST people are in, and that are using these of drugs. So that's my correlation and the trigger. Bring Daniel to a run down dilapidating building and the others are like uuuuu eeeeewwwww and making faces, I just stay quiet. I always used alone for the most part. I was very private and I lived with my spouse at the time. If you go to google.ca and go to maps and enter 33 Amboise crescent we bought that house and closed the deal on June 28, 2004 and we sold it on July 16, 2007 6 weeks after I stopped using crack. You'll see what I mean. We had the life. I do again, but dam I'm not screw up again. I'm gonna be 58 in September. My time is coming to and end you know. I need to do a lot more stuff before I pack it. Please don't ask me how I got this far. I'm about to stop my fingers from writing right now.