• Welcome Guest

    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
    Fun 💃 Threads Overdosed? Click
    D R U G   C U L T U R E

Do you believe “addicts” can ever use again in moderation / safety?

Do you believe “addicts / alcoholics” can use moderately and safely after suffering life changes?

  • Yes they can use non addictive substance in safety

    Votes: 19 29.2%
  • Yes they can use anything in moderation

    Votes: 35 53.8%
  • No they cannot use anything

    Votes: 11 16.9%

  • Total voters
    65
I voted yes anything, because I am one of those and I know several more.

I'll give it a caveat though, which is that while anyone IN THEORY can use in moderation, not everyone can IN PRACTICE. I say 'in theory' because there's nothing, including the fabled drug-induced brain changes, that can literally physically force you to consume substances. I say 'in practice' because for various reasons of personal psychological make-up or life history, there are individuals who won't ever get past the feeling that they NEED the drug.
Also forget attempting to moderate as long as you 'need' it, it'll end in predictable disaster. (I tried.)
 
I voted yes anything, because I am one of those and I know several more.

I'll give it a caveat though, which is that while anyone IN THEORY can use in moderation, not everyone can IN PRACTICE. I say 'in theory' because there's nothing, including the fabled drug-induced brain changes, that can literally physically force you to consume substances. I say 'in practice' because for various reasons of personal psychological make-up or life history, there are individuals who won't ever get past the feeling that they NEED the drug.
Also forget attempting to moderate as long as you 'need' it, it'll end in predictable disaster. (I tried.)
I'm not sure what you mean by moderate. Sorry.
 
I used to think it wasn’t possible, until It happened to me. I was about the most pathetic lack of Will drug shooting drunk around,.,. Treating the underlying mental health conditions and becoming truly ok with myself / getting into health and mindfulness has changed everything for me. At this point, maybe twice a year mates talk me into booze, always against my better judgement. I’ll get drunk that night, awake in horror at the AWS and am immediately like “this! Is why I don’t do this!”

I used to be addicted to heroin .. I use oxycodone for chronic pain post 3rd degree burns, I never exceed 10mg.

so it’s possible, but it requires changing the underlying person so much falling back to old habits doesn’t make sense. Just how it has worked out for me — as always YMMV
 
Last edited:
WR6NZpz.gif
 
Yes and No. It’s all about moderation. Not the substance. There always a safe dosing. Even people could die if drink too much water.
The point is, no safe dose it’s enough to the addict mind.
 
I voted yes anything, because I am one of those and I know several more.

I'll give it a caveat though, which is that while anyone IN THEORY can use in moderation, not everyone can IN PRACTICE. I say 'in theory' because there's nothing, including the fabled drug-induced brain changes, that can literally physically force you to consume substances. I say 'in practice' because for various reasons of personal psychological make-up or life history, there are individuals who won't ever get past the feeling that they NEED the drug.
Also forget attempting to moderate as long as you 'need' it, it'll end in predictable disaster. (I tried.)
for substances i know i have damage from, I won't do them more than one off now. including ethanol, oxy etc. like if i take a dose of it (and a reasonable, small-medium one at that) I will give myself a few weeks or months before even thinking about it again.
 
Addiction is pretty much defined by your intellect being taken over by primal, hedonism. It's the opposite of having a sound mind in my opinion. I used to share this opinion. If you're still able to think rationally and do the things you need to do before getting high, you're pretty much violating the definition of addiction.

I am gonna move this over to the recovery forums. I think the subject matter makes it well-suited for that spot.

I don't use Heroin anymore and I don't drink Alcohol, but I still smoke Cannabis. In my opinion, my life is fine, but I'm also coming from a place of pretty bad desolation in terms of morality, so by comparison, I'm sure many lifestyles are better. For myself specfically, the only drug I can really use without problems is Cannabis. I take Gabapentin (Neurontin) as well. I've gone through periods of overusage with both, that I have reined back in and this self-evaluation is not something I could ever realistically do with any Hard Drugs. I'm either doing them or not for the most part. They run my life and a good day would consist of convincing all of the relevant people that I'm alright.
 
I do not identify with being an addict, as I view the term as being shame filled and stigmatized.

I have had long periods of using where my substance use would very obviously meet criteria for severe addiction.

In 2016-2017 for the majority of the two years I used IV meth daily. I used around 1200mg of codeine daily and when I didn't use that and when I could access it, a couple of points of IV heroin. Also had a 6 month period of blackout Xanax use with alcohol. Weed was a constant presence as well.

I was so heavily addicted and at such risk of adverse life experience that my GP at one stage had me come in for weekly check ups so he knew I was still breathing due to his concerns about my out of control drug use.

While my use while attending at uni classes was fairly restricted, as I was not gunning to get caught being a junky and would therefore only shoot up single points at a time during class breaks, I would escalate my use at night or mix it with codeine or heroin.

At the last stage of my use in August 2017 I had a two week bender where my two uni mates went overseas and my housemate went home interstate so no one was around who previously was curtailing my intake. I used loads of heroin for a week, then used from between 500mg to 800mg of meth increasing daily for 4 days or so. By the 12th day of the fortnight I saw myself in the mirror suddenly and realised I had lost significant amounts of weight and figured out I'd basically forgotten to eat for a full two weeks.

Made a split second choice that weekend I was home whether I would return to class and uni and face my two friends who had been pressing me to accept their help for months, or stay home and display the same lack of self control and eventually be turfed by my long suffering and absurbly patient housemate who put up with the worst of me but who would no doubt eventually get sick of my bullshit.

I picked going into class. Got interrogated by my friend who was previously in the military about exactly what I spent 2 weeks doing and in exactly what amounts and finally disclosed to him I was using heroin and other opiates too, which caused him to tell me he couldn't help with both heroin and meth and wasn't able to help me at all despite wanting to until I mentioned I could go on suboxone like I did when I was 17.

Got on suboxone, a month and a half or so later I was starting intensive outpatient rehab which I brought up to that friend and showed him the pamphlet for to discuss whether it would be good for me.

For the 2 years I was in intensive outpatient I used here and there, slipped on meth a few times and had a year of heavy DXM and alcohol use. Then went to a different outpatient and still used meth here and there and later slipped up on poppy seed tea twice ending up on suboxone both times.

My biggest issue was my friends heavily involved themselves in my recovery and wanting to help by any means necessary, which I do appreciate bit they were in retrospect wildly unqualified to manage my substance use or the reasons behind it. They accidentally created a two tier system regarding drugs whereby IV meth and heroin were off limits and resulted in immediate intervention in my life like picking me up and having me stay with them for a week at a time, but if I smoked weed, drank DXM, alcohol, or did benzos, or took non heroin opiates I got nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

The issue this eventually created was that my brain knew that when I wanted to engage in any substance use to avoid trauma memories, or engage in extreme self punishment (which are my main two driving causes rather than any specific love of the drugs) that I could choose from any of the low tier substances and I would get nothing more than a word to not let it escalate further. This meant that the entire time I engaged in rehab, the actual cause of my substance use was never ever addressed at all and I simply substituted less frowned upon behaviours in to the place or IV meth and heroin which were understandably disliked by my loved ones due to the risk they posed to my health.

The outcome of this was that when I relapsed on IV meth after a full 18 months off it, the longest I'd ever been, I was back into it as much as I'd ever been before because my actual problem was never dealt with. It's only been since December that I've had any success making any progress with my use, monitoring it, restricting it when I need to, and limiting it.

I told all my friends they're not to pass comment on my drug use nor try to fix it, but that I will remain always honest with them about my drug use should they ever ask which is a promise I've always kept. I never lie about my use and my friends actually don't care all that much about my being an IV meth user as they know I'll seek help when I need it and they know I don't lie about using or try to hide it so my substance use doesn't have the same aura of deceit that it previously did back in 2017 especially, according to them.

I also told them that the two tier system needs to finish and they have to treat all drugs I take as the same as any other. This means I get the same treatment and attitude from them when I smoke weed as if I shoot meth because there is zero difference in why I use the drugs, they're all the same to me and it really just comes down to access.

I use once a week to a fortnight now, IV meth. I can have an alcoholic drink on a night out with friends and not engage further. I don't smoke weed nor use DXM, and I'm on maintenance therapy for opiates. Meth I can go for extended breaks with if I so choose.

Addiction is not a life long curse. It is absolutely possible and actually more common for people with substance use to learnt to moderate, 12 step programes just want you to think otherwise because otherwise their super perfect best ever number one program of abstinence doesn't have the success rate they claim.

And before anyone jumps in with the statement 'well then you never had a real addiction' trust me, I did. I just know I have the power to exercise self control these days and have dealt with most of my trauma so have far less of a reason to use and frankly I tire of the group of 12 step adherents who are so constitutionally incapable of admitting that they simply aren't willing or able to exert a modicum of adult self control over substance use that other people who had Addictions just as bad learn to adhere to, that they can palm off as drug use never being a choice, and if it's a choice for you then you weren't a 'real addict'. Newsflash guys, no one is forcing the substances into your open mouth. No one made you inject that needle. No one made you take that drink. In every situation, in order to physically consume any substance a person needs to make not one single choice several connected choices, which if they made any one of differently they wouldn't have used.

It is literally always a choice. And passing the buck and saying it isn't absolves yourself of personal responsibility for your actions.

There is nothing wrong with making a choice. It actually means you *do* have control over substances and can next time choose not to use another time and call it quits after one night. Imagine that. Crazy huh.
 
I used to IV meth. I did so, on and off, for about 15 years. Then I got into heroin. It's now been about seven years since I've used a needle or any hard drugs. I've pretty much daily used weed for my entire adult life (would definitely average more than two out of every three days for the past twenty years) but I'm reducing that now too. My alcohol consumption has reduced.

Everything takes time. When you've been an addict for a long time, it takes a long time to learn to moderate. It's definitely possible. It's fucking hard though because addiction becomes so entangled in your psyche. It's kind of like a kamikaze bee. When you pull it out, parts of you come out with it.

Also: trying and failing to quit something so many times that you lose count makes it so much easier to fail again. It becomes meaningless, eventually. You become numb to your own failure. You accept it because it is inevitable.

The reason most people give up trying to moderate and convince themselves they can't ever have a drink again or whatever is IMO mostly because it's just too much work. It's incredibly difficult. Giving up makes sense.

I'm never going to give up. I've sacrificed too much. I've come too far. I'm getting close to a point now where I need to either learn to moderate fast or give up everything forever. The latter is not going to happen. I need to stop making excuses. I can either consume something I love in moderation or say goodbye forever. The choice is obvious.
 
Ok. Then my apology is for everyone. Sorry guys for sound so pushy argumentative and mean spirited is a bit strong because I could my own anger as I wrote. Had you been beside you would have heard me. I actually the words I type out loud. It helps have flow to my posts and sentences. I guess that wasn't a good to start as a new member. I'll start over. I have my happy face on. LOLOL tHANKS MTU.

I need some information......................................................................first.
Just the basic facts
Can you tell me where it hurts.
Ok. Then my apology is for everyone. Sorry guys for sound so pushy argumentative and mean spirited is a bit strong because I could my own anger as I wrote. Had you been beside you would have heard me. I actually the words I type out loud. It helps have flow to my posts and sentences. I guess that wasn't a good to start as a new member. I'll start over. I have my happy face on. LOLOL tHANKS MTU.
I need some information......................................................................first.
Just the basic facts
Can you tell me where it hurts.
August 31 MSG NY seat 1 row1 seat 5,,😬
 
Well, I have yet to meet an LSD addict.

But it does seem that some people are more susceptible to drug-misuse disorder. If you know you are one of those people, you have to be careful but knowing and accepting is the most important step.

I used 24mg of diclazepam/day for a year. It took 360mg of diazepam to match it and it took a year to stop. A decade later and I've used benzos on occasion, but never felt the need for more.

I believe clobazam is now used in the USA. It's MUCH safer. For a start, it has a ceiling effect (30-40mg) and it's much less dependence-forming. I note that drug agencies in the UK are now swapping clients to clobazam. I can totally see why. It isn't much fun, it's impossible to OD on (well, I took 560mg at once and didn't even fall asleep) and it doesn't seem to cause compulsive usage.
 
Yes.
If we focus on the health of others instead of our selfishness. Its like it feeds on itself or creates a healing or something but never easy giving up ego and "me" these days.
Kinda what AA/NA is about,once you recognize how self centered you are ,you can than do something about changing it ,sharing little tips to someone worse off than yourself gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling inside..
 
I can and do.

BUT that is only after 40 years of being unable to use anything in moderation. I was severely alcoholic and also suffered through addictions to cocaine, benzodiazepines, opioids, and methamphetamine. At age 60 I somehow aged out of this pattern.

I DO NOT SUGGEST THAT ANYONE WHO IS CLEAN/SOBER TRY THIS!!!

I am currently dependent on kratom (about 30 grams daily), I drink 3 to 5 beers and smoke a little weed every evening. I also dabble in other drugs every few months for a couple of days-- no longer.

KIDS, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

I have no idea why this is working for me now. It was impossible for most of my life.
 
how long is a piece of string ?

the question sounds like asking for permission so in that case no way as it takes self discipline and strength of will.

I have been addicted to lots of stuff.

im stone cold sober in term so I can learn and work and on holidays ill smoke pot non stop (and occasionally do something else though not often)

I have a friend who went through the methadone program and got clean and he still uses once a month but he was a shark fisherman and there tough as nails.

then ive known heaps (more than just my friend and I) who quit use one time and are hooked all over again.

so my question stands

how long is a piece of string ?

what are you made of ?
 
I can and do.

BUT that is only after 40 years of being unable to use anything in moderation. I was severely alcoholic and also suffered through addictions to cocaine, benzodiazepines, opioids, and methamphetamine. At age 60 I somehow aged out of this pattern.

I DO NOT SUGGEST THAT ANYONE WHO IS CLEAN/SOBER TRY THIS!!!

I am currently dependent on kratom (about 30 grams daily), I drink 3 to 5 beers and smoke a little weed every evening. I also dabble in other drugs every few months for a couple of days-- no longer.

KIDS, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

I have no idea why this is working for me now. It was impossible for most of my life.
In the program it call “Surrender to Win” you’ve been there took your lumps survived and realized you couldn’t win and moved on to another substance and repeated enough the process enough times you come to a realization that you can’t win no matter how much you try,so Inturn you surrender and you win by being able to walk away.

at least that how I understood it.
 
I can and do.

BUT that is only after 40 years of being unable to use anything in moderation. I was severely alcoholic and also suffered through addictions to cocaine, benzodiazepines, opioids, and methamphetamine. At age 60 I somehow aged out of this pattern.

I DO NOT SUGGEST THAT ANYONE WHO IS CLEAN/SOBER TRY THIS!!!

I am currently dependent on kratom (about 30 grams daily), I drink 3 to 5 beers and smoke a little weed every evening. I also dabble in other drugs every few months for a couple of days-- no longer.

KIDS, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

I have no idea why this is working for me now. It was impossible for most of my life.

Eh, like I wrote about I had a severe polydrug addiction between 2016-2017 and while I regularly use now, it's not an addiction. I enjoy hobbies, I socialise, I spend time with support workers, I take care of my nice new bigger home, I try new things, I exercise, I work, I meet all my financial obligations by a mile.

I just dealt with a lot of my trauma so I'm not trying to die so much anymore.
 
Haha, I don't trip now, barely, never say never but presently it is not a part of my life.

No real interest, use or even need now, like simply not needed anymore.

I just decisively proactively injected as much rocket proppelant in as humanly possible, to serve forever.

I am addicted to other drugs but not LSD. That was always more like a life's work.
 
Top