🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 PD Social Thread 2022-2025 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

[Pfafffed]

Yes, I could tell the difference easily in a blind trial. When you take 4-AcO-DMT it has two phases a fast come-up that can be a little confusing and confronting this is similar to that as Mushrooms but in the second phase lies the difference it turns into this DMT like phase where the visuals are incredibly complex geometry and look exactly like when I smoke DMT but just slowed down and drawn out. With the peak of Mushrooms it has a similar flavor but more so wavy and breathing, pastel like smears of color.

Another thing to note is when you IV Psilacetin it literally feels exactly like the DMT flash one time on a 75mg dose I went directly into HyperSpace and had entity contact...but it will happen with less to I've shot up 25mgs numerous times which is like smoking 50-75mgs N, N-DMT or so roughly. When you snort the stuff the same thing happens but not as intense. Obviously I have never injected mushrooms so I'm not sure how Psilocybin or pure 4-HO-DMT for that matter would differ in that regard. I would love to try some pure 4-HO-DMT at some point I remember that @Xorkoth found it to have some differences to Mushrooms. All these slight changes on the molecular structure change the nature of the drug experience pretty drastically at times.

I've never got people that say they are all identical when you take 4-subs cuz that couldn't be further from the truth IME. Especially when you start talking the MET, DET, MiPT, MPT subtypes and etc.

I'd actually intended to finally take that 4-HO-DMT from years ago this last Sunday. Either that, or revisit 5-MeO-DMT for the first time in twenty years. I didn't, because I didn't want any bleeding over of black seed oil. Given that I got an unexpected ass kicking from an exceedingly familiar dose of 5-MeO-MiPT the following day, I think I made the right choice.

Either way, it's been so long since I've had 4-AcO-DMT or especially mushrooms, I don't know that I could compare them fairly.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I'd actually intended to finally take that 4-HO-DMT from years ago this last Sunday. Either that, or revisit 5-MeO-DMT for the first time in twenty years. I didn't, because I didn't want any bleeding over of black seed oil. Given that I got an unexpected ass kicking from an exceedingly familiar dose of 5-MeO-MiPT the following day, I think I made the right choice.

Either way, it's been so long since I've had 4-AcO-DMT or especially mushrooms, I don't know that I could compare them fairly.

Psylocibine is horrible as far as tryptamine's go. aMT was bad, 5meo made it worse, and 5-meo-DIPT although its mind blowing, torture.

4-ho substitutions seem like the more suitable candidates but if you dare then proceed. As long as purity is correct expect a hard mushroom punch in the ass.

 

[Xorkoth]

You think psilocybin is horrible? Wow, to me it's one of the archetypal best tryptamines, and best all-around psychedelics. It can be very difficult, but it's exceptionally worthwhile, and there is no other substance I can think of that is so deeply spiritual and connecting.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

I had the most powerful random encounter with a stranger last night on omegle lastnight of all places lol. So everybody knows im always tryna find enlightement. I aint been on omegle in like 12 years. Just random thought popped into my head. First dude i connect with i end up talking to him for 4 hours about the mind reality and god. He was from india living at the bottom. But he had a amazing heart and knowledge. And He was the real deal enlightened. First enlightened person I ever met. Trust me when you come across the real deal all your doubts will be removed.

He somehow read me like a open book everything i swear. Things that people dont even know about me. He gave me so much knowledge and read all my problems without me saying them and gave me the solutions to move foward. I felt light and happy and freed.

I realized I have many many years and a long journey to get to the level he was at. HE was truly humble loving kind. Blew my mind wide open. Made me realize all the new agers in the west are a load fucking bullshit. This dude wanted nothing asked for nothing. Just out of pure love for everyone he helped me.

This 4 hour convo turned me from feeling depressed anxious and wanting to end my life, into a feeling of light heartiness and a ability to move on from the past.

Super smart dude. I seen it enlightenment is real. And i am far far from it. But at least I have started to see through my own bullshit to ravel.

No more aliens no more NWO. The science of the mind is all we need. Unravel our conditioning.

The tools he imparted onto me were incredible. I feel like i might acutally be able to get sober instead of always fucking up now.

This dude knew my questions before I could even ask them, give me solutions and read my life and gave me encouragement.

To see how the other side is living such struggles in the physical world and the utter pure kindness they still shine on. He touched my soul so deeply i had tears in my eyes for hours talking to him. Its like he just soothed all the hate I was holding onto, Seeing such pure love and light shining through him changed how i viewed myself and the world and others.

The universe is a bizzare place, never in a 1 million years did i think i would just randomly encounter a stranger online like that who would shatter my mind and every belief and conception I had.

 

[unodelacosa]

No need to dig it up again and bumfuck the dead horse.

I just thought you'd enjoy the comic; wasn't attempting any proverbial equine abuse nor was it meant as a criticism. Tangential to your earlier point – chemistry is all applied physics when you get down to it, and in turn, physics is applied mathematics. You were right for correcting me on water's conductivity, and I appreciate you clarifying the point My initial response was probs a little defensive; sorry about that.

I've long ago been forced into seminal retention by ketaminergic renal system inflammation

Are you serious? So you're saying that ketamine-induced, kidney inflammation has forced you into the practice of avoiding ejaculation? Is the seminal retention the point of your efforts or a side-effect of same?

which makes one think twice before sloshing one's wad when it feels like primordial magma pouring out of mother earth herself.

Ok so it burns when you ejaculate… how about when you pee? Sounds less-than-ideal. Is this related to ketamine-induced bladder cystitis?

Hate to ruin your setup like that, but for your mad hatter wanker you can perhaps have a looking glass.

What setup? What do you mean? I'm not following you here on something, sorry. I can be a bit obtuse at times.

And then "Mad Hatter Wanker"? Idk, if you're referencing my profile pic, it's actually The Warden from the trippy, ultraviolent, Adult Swim cartoon, Superjail! Try watching it with a head full of acid…

 

[unodelacosa]

Psylocibine is horrible as far as tryptamine's go.

Well it's specific, and a full 3.5 gram dose can be a huge introspective mindfuck if you're not ready, plus higher doses trigger adrenaline release and an accompanying anxiogenesis. It's really not a casual drug, but the experience can be breathtaking, visually arresting, and deeply rewarding.

And it's odd to me how cavalier some ppl are about taking mushrooms all like,

“[blah³]… natural drugs… [hippie nonsense]… organic… [bullshit³]… from mother nature…​

p.s. I have no clue what I'm talking about. Har!”​

But they won't take a hit of acid bc it's “mad-made”. I'm like, Dawg, mushrooms will punish your dumb-ass, hypnotize and confuse the fuck outta you, and keep you couch-locked the whole time. Acid lets you dance around. Mushrooms at a festival is iffy AF, to me, but LSD is onpoint for that setting and it feels amazing dancing on it.

Mushrooms are like a system reset I want/need maybe twice a year.

aMT was bad,

Did you explore the erotic component to α-MT? Makes the body load worth it, in my opinion.

5meo made it worse,

You took 5-MeO-DMT while on α-methyl-tryptamine? Doesn't α-MT inhibit MAO? Sounds like a bad idea to mix those two, no?

and 5-meo-DIPT although its mind blowing, torture.

Are we taking the same drugs? Lol. Torture? Foxy Methoxy, aka 5-MeO-DiPT, is a wonderful entactogen and psychedelic aphrodisiac. Though heavier doses can indeed be mind-blowing, to me, the enjoyable active range is 10 – 15 mg for oral ingestion. Any more than that can result in psychedelia too overwhelming for coitus. My unsolicited two cents: try smaller doses perhaps…

Or try vaporizing and inhaling 5-MeO-DiPT or 5-MeO-MiPT. It's more ethereal via that RoA and it doesn't last as long. Much more manageable and still an awesome aphrodisiac.

4-ho substitutions seem like the more suitable candidates but if you dare then proceed. As long as purity is correct expect a hard mushroom punch in the ass.

It just depends on dose. If we're talking about psilacetin (4-AcO-DMT), it's nice being able to dial in a precise dose, which isn't something we can do with mushrooms without some level of guesswork or expensive equipment… Plus, Jesus H. Tittyfucking Christ, the taste of Psilocybe mushrooms is so, so foul to me, and always has been. I can nearly wretch just remember how they taste right now. Not a culinary delight let's just say…

and there is no other substance I can think of that is so deeply spiritual and connecting.

Idk, huge fan of LSD over here, and I find deep spiritual satisfaction and connection on acid just as much, though in a different manner, of course. Personally, I also really like 4-HO-MET—aka “Colour”—and find it to be a wonderful, beautiful compound with effects similar to psilocin's but with a friendlier headspace and less nausea.

TBH I've had deep, connecting experiences on PCP and a few closely related structural analogues, especially 3-substituted arylcyclohexylamines… Not saying I recommend them; obviously they don't work out for some people so well (see for example: Big Lurch), but I'm still just saying, damn: some of my most profound psychoactive drug experiences have come from PCP and its ilk.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well it's specific, and a full 3.5 gram dose can be a huge introspective mindfuck if you're not ready, plus higher doses trigger adrenaline release and an accompanying anxiogenesis. It's really not a casual drug, but the experience can be breathtaking, visually arresting, and deeply rewarding.

And it's odd to me how cavalier some ppl are about taking mushrooms all like,

“[blah³]… natural drugs… [hippie nonsense]… organic… [bullshit³]… from mother nature…​

p.s. I have no clue what I'm talking about. Har!”​

But they won't take a hit of acid bc it's “mad-made”. I'm like, Dawg, mushrooms will punish your dumb-ass, hypnotize and confuse the fuck outta you, and keep you couch-locked the whole time. Acid lets you dance around. Mushrooms at a festival is iffy AF, to me, but LSD is onpoint for that setting and it feels amazing dancing on it.

Mushrooms are like a system reset I want/need maybe twice a year.


Did you explore the erotic component to α-MT? Makes the body load worth it, in my opinion.


You took 5-MeO-DMT while on α-methyl-tryptamine? Doesn't α-MT inhibit MAO? Sounds like a bad idea to mix those two, no?


Are we taking the same drugs? Lol. Torture? Foxy Methoxy, aka 5-MeO-DiPT, is a wonderful entactogen and psychedelic aphrodisiac. Though heavier doses can indeed be mind-blowing, to me, the enjoyable active range is 10 – 15 mg for oral ingestion. Any more than that can result in psychedelia too overwhelming for coitus. My unsolicited two cents: try smaller doses perhaps…

Or try vaporizing and inhaling 5-MeO-DiPT or 5-MeO-MiPT. It's more ethereal via that RoA and it doesn't last as long. Much more manageable and still an awesome aphrodisiac.


It just depends on dose. If we're talking about psilacetin (4-AcO-DMT), it's nice being able to dial in a precise dose, which isn't something we can do with mushrooms without some level of guesswork or expensive equipment… Plus, Jesus H. Tittyfucking Christ, the taste of Psilocybe mushrooms is so, so foul to me, and always has been. I can nearly wretch just remember how they taste right now. Not a culinary delight let's just say…


Idk, huge fan of LSD over here, and I find deep spiritual satisfaction and connection on acid just as much, though in a different manner, of course. Personally, I also really like 4-HO-MET—aka “Colour”—and find it to be a wonderful, beautiful compound with effects similar to psilocin's but with a friendlier headspace and less nausea.

TBH I've had deep, connecting experiences on PCP and a few closely related structural analogues, especially 3-substituted arylcyclohexylamines… Not saying I recommend them; obviously they don't work out for some people so well (see for example: Big Lurch), but I'm still just saying, damn: some of my most profound psychoactive drug experiences have come from PCP and its ilk.

Psylocibine is mindfuck imo.

aMT was just lame, aking to a psylocybine without visuals, and due to its long half live pure torture.

5-meo-DIPT was actually the best of these three, but the physical side effects outweigh the positives. But its very similar too but more speedy then LSD imo.

5-meo-AMT aswell as DMT or 5-meo-DMT I have never taken.

 

[Xorkoth]

Psilocybin/psilocin definitely can have an extremely strong mindfuck. That's why it's challenging. But I have also had some of my most sublime and beautiful experiences of my life on it. It's very powerful, indeed, but also very worthwhile, to me anyway. It is very capable of reaching profoundly altered states of consciousness. Although mushrooms are commonly used recreationally, personally I don't reach for them for recreational purposes very much, except sometimes in pretty low doses. But when I want to go deep and really blow the doors off the hinges, mushrooms are a good choice. I just always prepare for some difficult moments.

I also love AMT, for me it's a lot like MDA, very rolly and euphoric, but the bodyload can be very heavy, it's one of the few psychedelics I still get bodyload from. Sometimes the bodyload feels purely euphoric and good, and other times, I feel nauseous and it lingers through the trip, and I can't make myself eat, and I get a headache. I haven't been able to determine why it behaves differently sometimes. At one time, AMT was my favorite drug. I used to do it a LOT, multiple times a week, sometimes days in a row (I do not recommend this at all, but it was really fun at the time).

 

[Xorkoth]

My girlfriend and I went berry picking today after doing a bunch of house cleaning. In addition to like quart-sized container each of blackberries and raspberries (wine berries and black raspberries), I found not one, but three chicken of the woods mushrooms. It's my favorite mushroom, I love them, and I always try to find one every year. Last year I found one but it was tiny and when I came back it was all dried up. On the same trail today, I found 3. 2 of them were old and nasty, but one was absolutely massive, probably 15 pounds of it across a fallen oak log. It was right exactly when you want to find it. I took 4 or 5 pounds of it and wrapped it in my shirt and carried it home. I cooked some with dinner, put the choicest pieces in a paper bag in the fridge for future dinners this week, and chopped the rest into small cubes and it's in the dehydrator. Last time I found one, I did that and ground it up in a coffee grinder to a fine powder, and I use it sometimes to add flavor to sauces and stuff. This time, I'll do that with half and the other half, I'm going to try to leave as small cubes and reconstitute some in stir fry when I feel like having some chicken of the woods with my dinner.

It was a great haul today! I love foraging for food.

My friend who forages mushrooms for a living (he sells them to restaurants and stuff) says his favorite mushroom of all time around here is called something-polypore, I can't remember. But he says when you cook it, it tastes like a medium rare steak with garlic butter. Chicken of the woods tastes a lot like chicken, but with a richer, more earthy aspect to it. I like to chop it up into small pieces and cook it with butter until it sweats all its water out and the edges brown, and towards the end, splash some white wine on them. It's the easiest mushroom to identify, there are no lookalikes and it's bright orange, you can't miss it. But I only find them an average of once a year.

I have yet to find any morels, but this guy at a house party my band played at brought some he had found that day, and cooked them in some way I didn't see, and they were insanely good.

 

[Freeotrope]

I find mushrooms more dream like and pull me inward. I had a series of trips where I became many other people in other places/times experiencing many types of suffering. I've also had interesting entity encounters on mushrooms. Also years ago there was a series of mushroom trips where my personal suffering/trauma came up somatically and in a dream like way where I wasn't sure what was happening at the time. Is this the kind of stuff people mean when they say "mindfuck"?

LSD always felt "clearer", not as dreamy just a simple clarity, this is the body, this is an emotion, this is this, that is that, even on 8 tabs when my vision was full of rainbow snakes, the headspace was clear and the trips were about psychelogical insight. I found the mushrooms would eventually land me in a clear space like LSD, but that was after processing the experience (or being processed by the experience) and reaching some kind of catharsis and after the peak wore off.

Chicken of the woods and morels are my favorite food mushrooms. I found a huge trove of chicken of the woods last fall but they were all too old, woody and full of bugs.

 

[Xorkoth]

To me, "mindfuck" is a negative thing, when you enter loops that you can't, or can't easily, get out of. They can be anxious or terrifying. I have found that tryptamines can lead to this the most often, especially psilocin/psilocybin/mushrooms. 2C-E did it to me the most strongly of anything ever, though, one time. This "mindfuck" (I don't really like the term), I have found, often precludes ego death, so if you can center yourself, and not panic, it can lead somewhere very worthwhile.

Chicken of the woods and morels are my favorite food mushrooms. I found a huge trove of chicken of the woods last fall but they were all too old, woody and full of bugs.

Yeah they often are, you have to get the timing right. It was a really fantastic day, I happened upon a lot of stuff. It was perfect, I only found like 3 grubs in there, and a few beetles, in the whole 4-5 pounds I cut off. And I still left most of it. I just finished dehydrating half of it, and have a big container full of cubes, and a full jar on fine powder for adding to sauces.

Also, last week when I was pulling out an old fence in my yard to move it, I accidentally grabbed a bunch of stalks of ghost pipe with a pile of leaves. It's a parasitic plant that looks just like a mushroom, but it flowers. It's pale and somewhat transluscent, and when you put it in alcohol, it slowly turns a brilliant purple color. It's the second time I've found it since I became aware of it. It's pretty mysterious and rare, no one really understands how it works but it's used in traditional native medicine, as "a way to distance yourself from pain emotionally", both physical and mental, as a dream potentiator, and my friend who introduced it to me said it will take someone right out of a bad trip. I was unsure, but my buddy who I blasted off on DMT (while he was on mushrooms already, which I didn't realize at the time), was freaking out and shouting over and over that he was dying. She came running in with a dropper full of ghost pipe tincture, and squirted it in his mouth, and like 10 seconds later his trip entirely turned around and he had a blissful time. I don't think anyone has studied what is in it.

Anyway, the last ones I found, I put in like 250mL of vodka, and it turned a light purple color, which is almost slightly brown. Well, this one, in a smaller amount of vodka, but about proportional to the amount of plant flesh, has turned the craziest purple color, if you shine a light through it, it's breathtaking. It's like this color, except glowing:

I keep intending on testing it carefully as a dreaming aid. Haven't gotten to it yet though. There isn't a lot written on it, but what is, is really interesting.

This is what it looks like:

I decided to bite the bullet and use 5 drops of the deep purple tincture. I am wondering if maybe it could be useful for when I jump off my 0.5mg suboxone dose in a couple of days.

 

[Xorkoth]

There is a really cool link on ghost pipe I found but the forum software won't let me post it, it gives browser console errors, for some reason

 

[cosmic charlie]

To me, "mindfuck" is a negative thing, when you enter loops that you can't, or can't easily, get out of. They can be anxious or terrifying. I have found that tryptamines can lead to this the most often, especially psilocin/psilocybin/mushrooms. 2C-E did it to me the most strongly of anything ever, though, one time. This "mindfuck" (I don't really like the term), I have found, often precludes ego death, so if you can center yourself, and not panic, it can lead somewhere very worthwhile.



Yeah they often are, you have to get the timing right. It was a really fantastic day, I happened upon a lot of stuff. It was perfect, I only found like 3 grubs in there, and a few beetles, in the whole 4-5 pounds I cut off. And I still left most of it. I just finished dehydrating half of it, and have a big container full of cubes, and a full jar on fine powder for adding to sauces.

Also, last week when I was pulling out an old fence in my yard to move it, I accidentally grabbed a bunch of stalks of ghost pipe with a pile of leaves. It's a parasitic plant that looks just like a mushroom, but it flowers. It's pale and somewhat transluscent, and when you put it in alcohol, it slowly turns a brilliant purple color. It's the second time I've found it since I became aware of it. It's pretty mysterious and rare, no one really understands how it works but it's used in traditional native medicine, as "a way to distance yourself from pain emotionally", both physical and mental, as a dream potentiator, and my friend who introduced it to me said it will take someone right out of a bad trip. I was unsure, but my buddy who I blasted off on DMT (while he was on mushrooms already, which I didn't realize at the time), was freaking out and shouting over and over that he was dying. She came running in with a dropper full of ghost pipe tincture, and squirted it in his mouth, and like 10 seconds later his trip entirely turned around and he had a blissful time. I don't think anyone has studied what is in it.

Anyway, the last ones I found, I put in like 250mL of vodka, and it turned a light purple color, which is almost slightly brown. Well, this one, in a smaller amount of vodka, but about proportional to the amount of plant flesh, has turned the craziest purple color, if you shine a light through it, it's breathtaking. It's like this color, except glowing:

I keep intending on testing it carefully as a dreaming aid. Haven't gotten to it yet though. There isn't a lot written on it, but what is, is really interesting.

This is what it looks like:

I decided to bite the bullet and use 5 drops of the deep purple tincture. I am wondering if maybe it could be useful for when I jump off my 0.5mg suboxone dose in a couple of days.

That Ghost Pipe is cool as hell man I have never heard about that before. You should write Trip Report about your trials with it, would surely be valuable to the community and would be fun documenting a novel ethnobotanical. Such a good writer I'm sure that you will whip up something nice for us all to read.

Pictures are stunning by the way

 

[Xorkoth]

I took a picture of the ghost pipe tincture:

Isn't it gorgeous? It's a mesmerizing color, especially in real life. It's weird since when you cut it, it will turn black, but not purple. I guess maybe the black s actually a very deep purple. The plant matter inside turns black inside the tincture though. And it's a pale white when fresh.

Anyway, my 5 drops last night did something, for sure. I pretty quickly felt a feeling in my body, hard to describe, but it was not unpleasant, nor pleasant. I could imagine it to be slightly dissociative in a way if it were stronger, but not like an NMDA antagonist. I am going to start a log of notes and gradually build up trials.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I CTed off buprenorphine finally yesterday. Didn’t sleep much last night and feeling like absolute garbage today. Managed to clean my wife’s car for her before the sun came up high, it was plastered with bugs from her last road trip. And then I went and got some MacD’s breakfast and that didn’t make my gut happy heh…

Anyways, I realized that it has been one year since I moved cities, as of last week. And I have been abusing opioids pretty much since the day we got here… so one whole year of addiction. I looked at my Bupre stash, I had enough for up to four years of daily mild use. I’m now missing 1/4th of what was in the vial initially…

Holy buprenorphine batman. I can’t believe how deep into addiction I got this time. I can’t believe how miserable it is to be sober. I’m only on day two, too… so it could get more painful before it gets better.

Sigh… why do I dig myself into holes? Why?

 

[Xorkoth]

It gets more painful, shit peaks around a week in, though with lower doses it won't be as long or as bad. I know you take super low doses (like my super low dose right now is as much as you take to nod out, lol).

I hate opiates. I need this to be the last go-around, I'm too old for this shit.

Sigh… why do I dig myself into holes? Why?

I wish I knew, man.

 

[unodelacosa]

Sigh… why do I dig myself into holes? Why?

Perhaps we all like to ignore our lives at times, shirk responsibilities, and bury ourselves in these metaphorical holes before somebody else eventually buries us for real. Sometimes getting swept up in a dream is easier than waking up to the harsh daylight sobriety of reality and the everyday meatspace matters of hitting goals and expectations for other people as well as for that part of self that knows deep down you need to take better care of yourself.

Don't let it get you down. Put your head into creative endeavors and get your life on track again. Sobriety is only boring if you let it be.

Lastly, just unsolicited advice here: dig shorter holes that are easier to hop out of without alarming others next time. Much less railroading to your life.

 

[perpetualdawn]

when you put it in alcohol, it slowly turns a brilliant purple color. It's the second time I've found it since I became aware of it. It's pretty mysterious and rare, no one really understands how it works but it's used in traditional native medicine, as "a way to distance yourself from pain emotionally",

Wow that's so interesting - I've seen this plant around a lot, but had never heard that it has medicinal/psychoactive properties, This purpling reaction is very interesting and beautiful.

I understand that these plants connect up with mycorrhiza and receive sugars and other nutrients via the fungus, rather than directly parasitizing other plants. This is how they get away without photosynthesis. AFAIK it's still a mystery if they bring something to the table for the fungal network, or if they're purely parasitic and get away with it by being small and low-overhead.

 

[porkstock]

2022...the year of the phen huh?
Might be appropriate to dip back into my 2ce stash that's been sitting for about a decade?

Haven't tripped this year yet. My most recent trips were near the end of 2021, took some acid and a week later, some miprocin at my favorite hiking spot. Both trips had somewhat difficult comedowns, which influenced my abstinence til now.

My brother and I used to do one psychedelic camping trip per year. Then I had kids and moved away so we haven't been able to do it every summer. Got to go canoeing and camping the other weekend, but we decided not to trip. It was so much fun that I might have to buy a kayak so I can go to the same spot by myself.

Weed is now legal in NJ and I've been spending way too much on vape carts. Never really tried them before this March. They're so damn delicious and convenient and quick and sneaky
I turn 37 tomorrow. Been a pretty good start to summer over here.

 

[Freeotrope]

To me, "mindfuck" is a negative thing, when you enter loops that you can't, or can't easily, get out of. They can be anxious or terrifying. I have found that tryptamines can lead to this the most often, especially psilocin/psilocybin/mushrooms. 2C-E did it to me the most strongly of anything ever, though, one time. This "mindfuck" (I don't really like the term), I have found, often precludes ego death, so if you can center yourself, and not panic, it can lead somewhere very worthwhile.

I've never had thought loops. When I'm on strong doses of mushrooms or DMT I tend to get drawn deeply inward into states where there is less thinking.