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new ketones based alcohol, no ethanol, is this for real!?

izo said:
i tried the folowing without much success:

3-methylbutan-1-ol
2-Methyl-2-Butanol
n-Propanol
Isobutanol
n-Propanol
n-Pentanol
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2-methylbutan-2-ol (2M2B) was actually used as an anesthetic and is x20 ethanol in potency. Doesn't taste very nice but I believe that it could be absorbed onto an appropriate cyclodextrin and eaten as a solid. Now, it's metabolism can proceed from oxidation of the 4 position (terminal -CH3 of long chain) and so potentially it could produce SOME level of hangover. That has been overcome by swapping to 2-methylpent-4-yn-2-ol or 2-methylpent-4-yl-2-ol. In the latter case, it seems that making the chain 1 shorter increases activity so 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol.

Just how potent the latter is, I don't know but I bet you can find out using Google very quickly. It's BP is of interest - it's quite possible that you could vape the stuff. Now, I've read discussions on how DANGEROUS this is, but their were places in the UK offering ethanol vapour. They were shut down because a vaping machine went wrong, someone inhaled VERY cold nitrogen... and almost died. I think they were trying to get people messed up with a single large hit. A vape won't usually allow such large hits hence the need for something more potent.
 
cdin said:
kava is used in this case to increase the binding affinity of muscimol, which is one of the only true GABA-A agonists around. most everything else is a PAM. kavain increases the GABA binding by 358%! which absolutely kicks the muscimol experience up a notch or two.
amanita/muscimol itself is only tricky if you don't know what you are doing. You need to order a decarbed extract, or perform a decarboxylation on any mushroom material. It has muscimol and ibotenic acid in it. muscimol, is a GABA analogue, which we want. ibotenic acid is a glutamate analogue which we very much do not want. decarboxylation by 3h simmer at 2.7 ph converts 90+% of the ibotenic acid to muscimol. it's a bitch to do so i just order the pre-decarbed tinctures.

with a good kava tincture and a good decarbed muscimol only tincture, you get an amazing experience. you don't have to believe me, but i love it.
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which kava supplement do you use. and which muscimol extract you use
 
allone said:
did it work as diet pill? i doubt its magic. obviously you have to put the work of moving your fat ass. ive tried dozen of "magical" shit with no magical results. then i found out "oh, calories are burned by moving" damn, what an amazing discovery!

but anyway. this is different i think. its not about any magical testaments of cures of anything. its just different type of alcohol. not ethanol, not making you hungry when drunk? or giving you the same amount of empty calories?? cmon, sounds too good to be true. why is this just coming now anyway
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People have been using this for awhile, albeit not in products marketed for consumption. Just buying it in bulk containers. Supposed to be less hangover/less toxicity than ethanol because of no harmful metabolites like acetaldehyde. There have been threads on BL about it.
 
Fertile said:

2-methylbutan-2-ol (2M2B) was actually used as an anesthetic and is x20 ethanol in potency. Doesn't taste very nice but I believe that it could be absorbed onto an appropriate cyclodextrin and eaten as a solid. Now, it's metabolism can proceed from oxidation of the 4 position (terminal -CH3 of long chain) and so potentially it could produce SOME level of hangover. That has been overcome by swapping to 2-methylpent-4-yn-2-ol or 2-methylpent-4-yl-2-ol. In the latter case, it seems that making the chain 1 shorter increases activity so 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol.

Just how potent the latter is, I don't know but I bet you can find out using Google very quickly. It's BP is of interest - it's quite possible that you could vape the stuff. Now, I've read discussions on how DANGEROUS this is, but their were places in the UK offering ethanol vapour. They were shut down because a vaping machine went wrong, someone inhaled VERY cold nitrogen... and almost died. I think they were trying to get people messed up with a single large hit. A vape won't usually allow such large hits hence the need for something more potent.
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Chemical supply house. It isn't watched. It is also found in trace amounts in cassava so one could sell as cassava extract, It's physical properties are very much like the mixture found in E-cigs so one could sell it as an alternative to nicotine.

I mean, here in the UK 10mL of vape liquid sells from £1.66-£2.99. That would mean 100 bottles per L would retail for £166-£299.

One would not want to buy it in 1L amounts from an EU/US fine chemical supplier.
 
allone said:
wow so many negative views on this. maybe thats why it hasnt caught up in the market and its sold nowhere.
but anyway, im desperately looking for altenarnatives to alcohol. and if you guys cannot help and bring me some suggestions, i have no choice but to go after this. :/

already ordered sampler btw. will see how it goes.
but seriously, instead of being so critical, try to help out a fucka out here, bring me alternatives! thanks. or just stfu :)
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the best ethanol replacement ive found has by far been ghb. its many times more euphoric than alcohol, no hangover, no calories more importantly. but cant go overboard on dosing or w/ds come quick with rebound anxiety and its hell. ive tried 1.4bdo and found it feels very dirty in the body and left me with a headache after one dose, no where near as clean feeling as ghb. its worth the search
 
bonsumed said:
the best ethanol replacement ive found has by far been ghb. its many times more euphoric than alcohol, no hangover, no calories more importantly. but cant go overboard on dosing or w/ds come quick with rebound anxiety and its hell. ive tried 1.4bdo and found it feels very dirty in the body and left me with a headache after one dose, no where near as clean feeling as ghb. its worth the search
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Well, pyeyzolam is the best ethanol alternative but sec amyl alcohol is closer than GHB in my opinion - both of them bind the exactly the same GABAa receptor subtypes as ethanol. GHB has it's own receptors. Of course, subjectively, everyone's opinion is of equal value.

Of ligands that bind at distinctly different sites, clomethiiazole is very impressive and chlormezanone does a reasonable estimation.

The reason pyeyzolam isn't identical is partly pharmokinetics and partly because alcohol binds to the a5b1y1 whereas ethanol binds to a5b2y1 & a5b3y1 and so you need at least 2 ligands to bind to them all UNLESS someone comes up with a novel scaffold.

That said, a positional isomer of SH-053-R-CH3-2′F (making it a 1,50benzo) would be my bet for a single ligand solution.
 
Fertile said:
Well, pyeyzolam is the best ethanol alternative but sec amyl alcohol is closer than GHB in my opinion - both of them bind the exactly the same GABAa receptor subtypes as ethanol. GHB has it's own receptors. Of course, subjectively, everyone's opinion is of equal value.

Of ligands that bind at distinctly different sites, clomethiiazole is very impressive and chlormezanone does a reasonable estimation.

The reason pyeyzolam isn't identical is partly pharmokinetics and partly because alcohol binds to the a5b1y1 whereas ethanol binds to a5b2y1 & a5b3y1 and so you need at least 2 ligands to bind to them all UNLESS someone comes up with a novel scaffold.

That said, a positional isomer of SH-053-R-CH3-2′F (making it a 1,50benzo) would be my bet for a single ligand solution.
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have not tried any of those so cant speak on but ill take ur word for it. will be keeping an out for pyeyzolam, your mentions in this thread are the first ive heard of it ever but seems interesting. do you happen to do research for work in this field? but my gut feeling is that all of those are orders of magnitude harder to source than g for OP so if u factor in average availability, i think g edges them out.
 
bonsumed said:
will be keeping an out for pyeyzolam, your mentions in this thread are the first ive heard of it ever but seems interesting.
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It appears to have originated from James Cook's lab at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. The structure corresponds to a compound named "SH-TRI-108" in the 2011 Ph.D. thesis of Terrill Clayton in Cook's lab, but I'm not sure where the name pyeyzolam/pyeazolam comes from, perhaps just a street name? It doesn't seem to be an approved drug anywhere.
 
question: what is a ketone based alcohol? these are two different functional groups...
 
S.J.B. said:
It appears to have originated from James Cook's lab at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. The structure corresponds to a compound named "SH-TRI-108" in the 2011 Ph.D. thesis of Terrill Clayton in Cook's lab, but I'm not sure where the name pyeyzolam/pyeazolam comes from, perhaps just a street name? It doesn't seem to be an approved drug anywhere.
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No, this is a related compound. The problem with the stuff Cook et al came up with was duration and selectivity.

I used a triazolo ring (so no a1 affinity) and a 2-pyridiyl as the pendant aromatic (to prevent metabolism - it's excreted unchanged). I didn't go for a chiral 3 substituent or an ester moiety. It's the ester that results in short duration.

I did talk to Cook and he didn't cover the same ground as me. After all, our aims were different. My work was for Imperial Collage London and since it's patented, I suggest it isn't covered by Cooks's work.


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The above had even greater activity but as I mentioned, it emulates 'drunk' but cannot emulate 2 bottles of wine. A second ligand is needed.
 
and why they don't engineer some tipsy-producing kavalactone analogues? It's probably the best shit ever for replacing alcohol, it rings all the bells, in a "different" way but very pleasurable, surely they can find a way to make them more intoxicating and with less sides than alcohol.
Seems that there's also people working with 2-AI for helping people get out of alcohol addiction but that's another story.
 
BTW CC above - 0-20mg nothing, 20-25 drunk. It shows that alcohol is quite complex and making an even more potent ligand that emulates high-dose ethanol is not the answer. In fact, a LESS potent ligand may be better. But the triazolo (precludes a1 affinity) is required and the 2-pyridyl pendant means that it's 'wash in, wash out'. Why? So I didn't have to identify metabolites.
 
Neuroborean said:
and why they don't engineer some tipsy-producing kavalactone analogues? It's probably the best shit ever for replacing alcohol, it rings all the bells, in a "different" way but very pleasurable, surely they can find a way to make them more intoxicating and with less sides than alcohol.
Seems that there's also people working with 2-AI for helping people get out of alcohol addiction but that's another story.
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Liver damage.
 
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The above emulates low-dose ethanol BUT the problem is that it seems to act as a partial agonist with a ceiling dose and so mixed with pyeyzolam, one has 2 drinks and feels good.. Drinks 2 more with no effect, then another 2 and is blind drunk.

So what is needed is a ligand that is a5 selective BUT b & y non-selective.

The above is pyeyzam
 
Fertile said:
Liver damage.
Click to expand...
Nah,
regular kavalactones don't cause liver damage, when there was liver damage reports was when some shady vendors mixed several parts of the plant to get more money into the pot, parts of the plant which have toxic substances and were never used in kava kava grogs, traditionally. There's also tudei kava (or kava from piper wichmanii) that has other chemotypes and actives (probably more toxic) but the thing is that I was talking about analogues, that pharmacalogically could by-pass those potential issues.
That's the story afaik.
Here you can find some info, it dismiss kava as an alcohol alternative, in some ways but honestly, for me (hating alcohol side effects) it could work.
 
Well liver damage has been recorded in the natives who harvest it themselves.


Believe me, I would dearly love to know if it's one particular lactone, the mixture, what part genetics play, I'm also keen to learn the patterns of use. It seems dose-dependant and is seen among heavy users so, like many traditional plants, it could be westerners that are doing LOTS and OFTEN,

Does anyone know what lactones do what? Is it possible to isolate just one?
 
Fertile said:
Well liver damage has been recorded in the natives who harvest it themselves.


Believe me, I would dearly love to know if it's one particular lactone, the mixture, what part genetics play, I'm also keen to learn the patterns of use. It seems dose-dependant and is seen among heavy users so, like many traditional plants, it could be westerners that are doing LOTS and OFTEN,

Does anyone know what lactones do what? Is it possible to isolate just one?
Click to expand...
Please consider that what I'm trying to say is that if they pharmacologically know/discover which kavalactones do what then it wouldn't be so difficult to engineer some analogue, like a research chemical that would work similarly without the issues.
Not sure what kavalactone causes "liver damage" but the study you post is kinda "dismissed" in the one I brought, saying that having higher than normal liver parameters doesn't necessarily mean actual liver damage. I've also had high parameters once in my life, probably due to diabetes type 1 + research chemicals "abuse" and now my liver is doing perfectly (on tests and in real life) I mean, I didn't notice anything wrong in fact, but the liver parameters were high. In anycase that happens in 23% of all heavy drinkers, isn't it? You can see that as a "potential problem" but if people is drinking that for years and they only have "high parameters" then I wouldn't worry too much about it (but that's just me).

EDIT: Yep, I think they can isolate just one or even produce some synthetically, if I remember well a japanese guy did an amazing work creating kavalactones synthetically (with a technique that could be used for several molecules)
 
Oh, it wasn't japanese, probably, but korean origin (?).
Bah, doesn't really matter, if anyone (@Kaleida ?) could be interested this is the paper :
www.biorxiv.org

The biosynthetic origin of psychoactive kavalactones in kava

For millennia, humans have used plants for medicinal purposes. However, our limited understanding of plant biochemistry hinders the translation of such ancient wisdom into modern pharmaceuticals[1][1]. Kava ( Piper methysticum ) is a medicinal plant native to the Polynesian islands with...
www.biorxiv.org www.biorxiv.org
 
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