Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-MiPT Thread - 2nd MiPteration

[Kaleida]

@porkstock

Personally, the way I use 4-HO-MiPT and find it to be at lower relative dosages, I do generally compare it more to LSD than to mushrooms, although if I take a high enough dosage of 4-HO-MiPT, the effect definitely does still become more recognizably shroomy in its manner of complexity and style, which to be fair can somewhat be said of LSD too, although superficially the 4-HO-MiPT is definitely still closer to mushrooms at that level than LSD is in some meaningful ways for me, but similarly also still more alike LSD at that level than mushrooms are; 4-HO-MiPT becomes very extreme for me at that level though and I very rarely attempt to push it into that range anymore. While not necessarily universal I've known quite a lot of people to see it this sort of way too, and you're not even the first person I've known of to use that nickname for it. It does still have notable differences such as as you mention the shorter duration, much more like mushrooms than LSD for me in that way most of the time, although I'm sure that's just because it gets absorbed and metabolized like the simple tryptamine it is comparably to psilocin and unlike the complex and conformationally constrained lysergamides like LSD, which would presumably be the same reason it compares more to psilocin in terms of qualities like required dosage, chemical taste, and so on than it does to LSD.

In the same vein, lysergamides specifically seem to have some distinct pharmacological properties from other tryptamines such as their well-characterized potent dopaminergic and adrenergic receptor activities and the more recently explored differences in structural interactions and their functional implications with the 5-HT2A receptor like how having a N,N-diethyl group on the lysergamide-specific tail nitrogen seems to pull a lid-like branch of the receptor closed over them and increase their ability to stay docked inside (at least, this has been shown for LSD and I don't see why it couldn't apply somewhat to the others as well, but that is admittedly a guess) and have distinct effects on signaling like through beta-arrestin, and I so far feel like this difference seems to show in their subjective effects as well because there are certain qualities to the lysergamide experiences that I feel I don't tend to find in any other type of psychedelic I've used, no matter how otherwise similar, and 4-HO-MiPT is no exception in that way. "Acid-lite" really is a decent way to look at it for me too because it's not going to give me everything that LSD is going to and it's not going to last as long, but it is still going to be similar and its differences are going to work for it rather than against it if I just accept it for what it is. By contrast, I generally don't take it thinking of it as something that's going to give me a particularly mushroom-like experience or hoping that it will, although I do always look forward to having at least some recognizably psilocin-like elements with it.

Though, while 4-HO-MiPT is the asymmetrical methyl tryptamine with the other substitution being the "most" non-methyl (an isopropyl being the bulkiest versus a methyl being the least bulky), it is still a methyl tryptamine due to the former substitution. So, basically what I was saying before was my first recommendation was to go totally non-methyl which progresses from psilocin which is 4-HO-DMT to 4-HO-DET and then 4-HO-DPT and/or (different structural directions but some linear functional increases) 4-HO-DiPT, but if you follow the same path on only one substitution, going from 4-HO-DMT to 4-HO-MET and then 4-HO-MPT and/or 4-HO-MiPT, the same sort of relationships hold true for me, but they're still only approximately half as relevant; which is to say, 4-HO-MET is the only first step from 4-HO-DMT, but then you could go to either 4-HO-MPT or 4-HO-MiPT but you could also go to 4-HO-DET, and from that ethyl rather than methyl symmetrical base, you could go from 4-HO-EPT and then 4-HO-EiPT (which I've unfortunately never used unlike the rest of these, but hypothetically, and I have used 5-MeO-EiPT for what it's worth) and these ethyl tryptamines would also follow the trend of becoming increasingly more like the qualities that LSD has that are distinct from psilocin in the same way the progression of methyls or symmetricals does, and same for the progression of 4-HO-DPT to 4-HO-PiPT (which I also haven't tried though it's more recently become available), and finally maxing out at 4-HO-DiPT. So, it's a complicated web that you can follow through many trajectories, though with these four simple alkyls at least it notably ends at 4-HO-DiPT being the most linearly bulky, and you could even get there going from 4-HO-MiPT to 4-HO-EiPT to 4-HO-PiPT to 4-HO-DiPT for example, so as much as 4-HO-MiPT can have the qualities that LSD has that stand out from psilocin, that can definitely get even heavier than that within this same structure-activity relationship grouping, although I can only speak from experience comparing it in that specific line to the endpoint, 4-HO-DiPT.

That being said, something that brings 4-HO-MiPT and LSD together and separates LSD from all of the others in that group is that they are both asymmetrical methyl tryptamine derivatives, and with MPTs being the ones that are superficially more alike LSD for me even while MiPTs are often functionally more alike it, those two structures (MPTs and MiPTs) are still pretty similar and 4-HO-MiPT and LSD are still not that distinct for me even superficially. Once you start to remove the methyl things can start to seem a lot less familiar and I generally find that the least bulky substitution on the molecule is a decent way to estimate particularly certain aesthetic aspects of the experience which are a lot easier to recognize for me than they are to describe, so for instance while 4-HO-MiPT may get a relatively more lysergamide-like vibe from its isopropyl while also feeling still like a methyl tryptamine aesthetic and thus comparing more to LSD, I would expect that 4-HO-EiPT, again without having actually had the opportunity to try it yet, might also gain a relatively more lysergamide-like vibe from its isopropyl while also feeling instead like an ethyl tryptamine aesthetic and thus possibly comparing more to ETH-LAD. Additionally, in the grand scheme of psychedelic tryptamine derivative tail bulkiness, 4-HO-MiPT and LSD don't seem to necessarily be all that far off from one another, but as I was saying before, LSD is not actually an endpoint and tryptamines can be even bulkier than LSD itself, so if, for example, 4-HO-MiPT is theoretically similar to LSD and it takes another three steps to get from 4-HO-MiPT to 4-HO-DiPT, then 4-HO-DiPT is theoretically much bulkier than LSD, and thus could be suspected to produce a notably higher ratio even of the effects that LSD doesn't share with psilocin to the effects that LSD does share with psilocin than even LSD does, and in my personal experience I feel that this seems like a reasonable perspective so far. Essentially it's sort of like if you could describe psilocin as having property A and LSD and 4-HO-MiPT as having property A + B while 4-HO-DiPT has property B, and on top of that psilocin, LSD, and 4-HO-MiPT are all methyl tryptamine derivatives while 4-HO-DiPT is not, so ultimately, what it amounts to is that 4-HO-DiPT and to varying other extents other entirely non-methyl tryptamines can actually be quite distinct from the traditionally used indole psychedelics in general, even though I would often say that they're more similar to LSD than psilocin nonetheless, but just in a way that can go even beyond LSD's difference from psilocin, but also the less bulky ones are still more noticeably similar to psilocin for me than the bulkier ones, like 4-HO-DET compared to 4-HO-DiPT, for example.

I hope that's clear enough.

 

[porkstock]

I appreciate the discussion. You’ve focused on whether or not the compound has a methyl, as a way to compare against 4-ho-dmt, but what if you had decided to differentiate them based on if they were symmetrical or not? Do you think that division would not be as appropriate, based on your experience?

 

[Kaleida]

Well, it does seem to stand out whether they're symmetrical or asymmetrical to me, but that feels to me like it's primarily because of how it emphasizes the aesthetic of the substitution. I really have just found a lot of the tryptamine structure-activity relationships to seem rather simple when comparing my subjective experiences even though I expected it to be a little less easy to just compare and contrast when going in, and I really can't claim to know how much of it would have a nice scientific explanation and how much is just coincidence, but I really can say things like that the visuals of 4-HO-MET remind me of both the visuals of psilocin and 4-HO-DET and that the visuals of 4-HO-MPT remind me of both the visuals of psilocin and 4-HO-DPT and that the visuals of 4-HO-EPT remind me of both the visuals of 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-DPT, and so on. I really enjoyed seeing the different ways the styles would seem to mix and match, but at the same time it increasingly made it feel like when I would use things like psilocin, 4-HO-DET, and 4-HO-DPT themselves, the absence of the blend of two different styles and instead the extra emphasis on one core style really seemed to stand out. For example, myself and at least a number of people that I've talked to seem to think that psilocin and 4-AcO-DMT still have generally more dense and intricate geometric visuals than the other methyl 4-substituted tryptamines which get into a DMT-like area, and as I said before the methyl and ethyl tryptamine aesthetics are very different for me, but 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET really exemplify the very distinct ethyl style to an intense and visionary degree that no other ethyl 4-substituted tryptamine does as completely, and I find ethyls as well as considering the difference between them and methyls to be fascinating, so it's a big deal to me to have both the symmetricals and asymmetricals to use and differentiate.

So yeah, I definitely think that's an important aspect of it too. I think there are a lot of different interesting relationships that come into play between them that all seem to contribute to the final effects in their own ways.

Here's something that I think provides some interesting perspective into the symmetrical versus asymmetrical situation. This study tested the efficacy of DMT, DET, DPT, DiPT, and MiPT at the 5-HT2A receptor, and it found that DMT had 83%, DET had 90%, DPT had 97%, and DiPT had 110%, so a pretty straightforward increase with increasing symmetrical bulk, but MiPT actually had 74%, even lower than DMT, so clearly something different is going on there. For comparison, this study did another test of intrinsic efficacy at the 5-HT2A receptor and found that DMT had 40% and DiPT had 101%, another large increase between them which is paralleled in psilocin having 16% and 4-HO-DiPT having 74%, and yet 4-HO-MET is right nearly all the way up there with it, with 72%. I always found that intriguing, so just thought I'd share it.

 

[ecstacylover]

Fascinating stuff Kaleida. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by superficial vs functional resemblances?

 

[Kaleida]

Sure, it's a rather complex topic that's not always the easiest to describe in detail, although I tend to find it rather easier to identify certain key qualities of each.

For functional effects, this is what I'm mainly referring to when I describe the effects as being typically seemingly relatively more selective for the kinds of properties that LSD shares with psilocin with less bulky substitutions and for the kinds of properties it doesn't with more bulky substitutions, and it comes back to my earlier post in this thread where I first clarified why I made the recommendation I did: in my experience methyl tryptamines are more likely to have a bubbly euphoric energy, expansive thoughts, deep glowing neon colors, and a greater density of geometric imagery, while non-methyl tryptamines, to a sequentially increasing degree as the bulk of the non-methyl substitution increases, are more likely to feel altered but grounded, to have a more narcotic high, to have colors that are subtler and give off a more mysterious vibe, and to have a greater density of complex visionary hallucinations. Back in the day when I was still really starting to develop my thoughts about all of this, I tended to describe the less bulky substitutions as being more likely to produce "classical psychedelic" effects while the more bulky substitutions were more likely to produce "dissociative" or "dream-like" or even "delirious" effects, and I had some friends who agreed with me at the time, although I got suggestions for different terms to describe them too, such as using "narcotic" or "hypnotic" for the latter; I think it's really complex and doesn't compare directly to any one label, though I agree that all of those and more capture different elements of how I've felt about it over time. Essentially it's the question of, when I prepare to take and think about what I might get from a trip on any specific tryptamine derivative in this structure-activity relationship web, do I treat it more like it's going to be like a trip on mushrooms, or like a trip on LSD, or something that's different to a similar but even greater degree, such as DPT compared to DMT? How will it function, what will it make me feel like throughout and after the experience, how will it change my thought processes, will I be overwhelmed by external patterns or travel inward into realistic visions?

This is just an idea, don't quote me scientifically or anything of course, but one thought I've developed over time related to my experiences and apparent observations of this is that it sort of seems like maybe, DMT for whatever reason has its highly efficacious effects of the "classical psychedelic" variety as most people seem to agree it does, and it can also be dosed high enough to produce a profound "dissociative" effect which can be somewhat related to near-death experiences, which serotonin is sometimes suspected to be involved in (and this seems particularly likely at leasts when suffocation is the cause based on the research I can find), so perhaps what happens is that when the tryptamine tail bulk is increased in basically any way, certain serotonergic effects remain and maybe are even intensified - as shown in the studies above with increasing efficacy between DMT, DET, DPT, and DiPT in the standard signaling pathway they test, but only one of multiple - and that could be things like the near-death experience-like "dissociative" effects which may contribute to things like why DPT for example can be known for being particularly dissociative and delirious for some, but maybe at the same time that specific "classic psychedelic" effect actually depends on those tiny methyl substitutions for high potency and still remains to varying degrees but with increasingly less prominence compared to those "dissociative" effects as the bulk increases, even though again, as with something like DPT, you can also just take a high enough dosage with them to get really powerful "classical psychedelic" effects too. I think that's an important point to note too - since most indole psychedelics are seemingly incredibly physically safe over a wide range of dosages, at least in terms of not overdosing or having likely immediate health complications or anything, with most of them if you really want to you can probably dose high enough to encompass practically the full range of available indole psychedelic effects, but nonetheless, those effects will still exist in ratios to one another that are unique to each drug and reflect the same patterns of which effects do or don't appear much for them at lower dosages, so just something to consider about that too.

For superficial effects, what it seems to come down to for me is that, for whatever reason obviously not having any idea how this stuff really works, it really has appeared to me, consistently through years of experience, that psychedelics that have similar molecular structures to one another are relatively more likely to have aesthetic similarities in their hallucinations and their other more abstract alterations of consciousness and cognition particularly where they overlap with perception than are psychedelics that have relatively less similar molecular structures, and I want to stress this latter part too, because it's important to me to clarify that when I call them "superficial" effects I'm not trying to imply that they're unimportant or anything, because I think the way a psychedelic expresses and portrays its functional effects through its superficial effects can make quite the difference too, especially in a world where we have so many options and you can really be picky to find what truly works best for you. For a quick non-tryptamine example though, even though psychedelics in general with enough potency can generally get pretty colorful I tend to find it relatively easy to identify what the most consistently prominent color or restricted color range has been for me thus far with any given molecule and they really do seem to remain pretty consistent for me overall with each individual molecule, and within the world of 2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamines for instance, 2C-C, 2C-B, and 2C-I, all the halogenated simple phenethylamines I've tried, have very, very distinctly green visuals both dark and bright, while 2C-P is actually more deeply purple, and on the other hand DOF, DOC, and DOB all the halogenated amphetamines I've tried, have very powerful and deep but vibrant orange visuals for me, yet DOPR, again unlike them but instead alike 2C-P, had particularly very purple and also pink visuals! I don't really have an explanation other than pointing out that it just seems logically more likely than not giving that every psychedelic has unique visuals that more chemically similar psychedelics would more likely have more subjectively similar visuals and it anecdotally seems to pan out, and in my experience so far, this definitely seems to apply not just to these phenethylamines but to the tryptamine-lysergamide structure-activity relationships as well.

I really can't overstate the degree of superficial similarity that the MPTs have with LSD compared to other tryptamines for me, particularly when really pushed into the higher dosage range, although it's important to note that, as I was getting into with comparing the MPTs to the MiPTs before, even though the LSD-like qualities that the MPTs have are superficially closer to LSD itself for me than the LSD-like effects of the MiPTs are, the MPTs are still slightly further back than the MiPTs on the functionality scale from LSD and towards psilocin, and whereas I agreed above with the idea that 4-HO-MiPT could be in some ways thought of as an "acid-light" due to its functional and still relatively high superficial similarities, with 4-HO-MPT I've traditionally described it as being the tryptamine that is truly the most alike LSD both superficially and functionally except with caveat of also being blended with more of the superficial and functional qualities of psilocin simultaneously as opposed to getting those LSD-like qualities by themselves, so in other words it's sort of like a blend of properties of LSD and psilocin, and I eventually started describing MPT with the similar description of like a blend of properties of LSD and DMT for me. Again, superficial doesn't mean unimportant and these qualities make the MPTs truly memorable and special psychedelics for me, so it's something that I find very meaningful to consider in these relationships too, but it's definitely something that feels distinct from the aforementioned functional relationships to me, and I find acknowledging both theoretical relationships to seem to accurately describe my feelings and impressions and help guide my decisions to take things relatively successfully so far.

For example, 5-MeO-DiPT is quite superficially distinct from LSD for me overall, but functionally I've actually found it notably similar so far, and actually can point to a lot of trip reports that I found in my research of it where others said the exact same thing too, and this relationship seems believable to me given how bulky 5-MeO-DiPT is even though it having the two isopropyls seems to give it very distinct superficial effects from the methyl and lysergamide backbone of LSD, which for example involves 5-MeO-DiPT for me being heavily red (again in addition to many other colors) but also only developing subsequent to a bright white light and silvery glow similar to both 4-HO-DiPT and DiPT, and overall they all feel to me like they're sort of "ancient" and sometimes even "monstrous" in their stylistic nature like a sort of twisted equivalent to the ancient natural vibe I sometimes associated with things like DMT and mushrooms, while LSD for me tends to be heavily blue (and etc.) and to feel very modern, technological, and playful, and it's just a pretty different aesthetic vibe overall for different tryptamine derivatives, but nonetheless, both LSD and 5-MeO-DiPT have a very high prominence of cartoony human visuals with a sexual nature and spinning in Ferris wheel patterns alongside an otherwise relatively lower but still colorful and prominent array of geometric visuals and correspondingly with my above recommendations and how I usually expect the effects to be based on that kind of relationship, I also find both of them to be more "dissociative" and "narcotic" and "mysterious" and so on compared to psilocin, to a degree that is relatable to one another, and ultimately, I feel like I would consider LSD and 5-MeO-DiPT alongside each other as possible psychedelic options for a similar mood and desire for what I consider functional effects, but their superficial differences would definitely be a significant factor that comes into play for me in determining how I want the day to go and what sort of imprint I want the trip to leave on my the most at that time, because even if they are relatively functionally similar psychedelics for me overall, the psychedelic "vibe" will definitely change how I feel and think about some stuff overall, both directly and indirectly.

For me, one of the easiest ways to see the examples of superficial similarities is to compare tryptamine derivatives with the exact same tails, such as the aforementioned comparison between 5-MeO-DiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, and DiPT, although particularly the 4-substituted and base tryptamines, because interestingly, almost every 5-substituted tryptamine has had strongly red-orange visuals regardless of what other superficial qualities it had, the only exception so far being 5-MeO-EiPT, which just has had orange-yellow, and that can be related to how above 5-MeO-DiPT started white and silvery but then became primarily red with additional rainbow colors, because for me 4-HO-DiPT and DiPT also start white and silvery, although that tends to remain one of the more prominent aspects and blend somewhat with blues either lighter on the 4-HO-DiPT or darker on the DiPT. 4-HO-DPT and DPT for me both seem to have particularly purple colors, and also notably focus particularly on some of the theater mask-like visual imagery, and I've described them as having a sort of "shadowy" and "spooky" but also sometimes technological vibe overall. 4-HO-MPT and MPT for me, notably alike LSD, focus heavily on blues tending a little into greens and purples, and they have a similar neon and wireframe quality to their visuals and erotic cartoony aspect to their visions, and 4-HO-EPT and EPT for me, similarly to ETH-LAD, focus heavily on faded yellows with occasional shifts into darker colors like greens or oranges and patterns that can look like some sort of weird mechanical operations yet also so natural and ethereal that it's like they might be made of sunlight. Psilocin and DMT can actually be a little more diverse than some of the others tend to for me although they still tend to produce similar geometries and transformations and tend around the more natural green or yellow ranges for me (in addition to many other well-defined colors), and bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) still follows the pattern of being red-orange like other 5-substituted tryptamines for me despite also being superficially comparable to them in some ways that no other non-DMT-based tryptamines have been for me. 4-HO-MET and MET can be relatively compared to psilocin and DMT for me although I find them notably closer even, both being particularly yellow but also still mixed with a lot of other prominent neon colors like red, blue, and green that seem kind of technological. Somewhat amusingly though, despite 4-HO-MiPT and MiPT definitely sharing some qualities for me such as particularly crisp and ornate colorful geometric tapestries and a somewhat tryptamine-unusual level of detail on certain geometric aspects even though being subtler than others in a way I've sometimes compared to phenethylamines, 4-HO-MiPT for me is super dark blue while MiPT for me is super bright but deep red; sometimes life throws you curveballs, although that does give MiPT some similarity to 5-MeO-MiPT, which also shares some of those qualities with them for me and is also in that red-orange area.

It's early in the morning and some of those details are somewhat haphazardly given, I could definitely describe more about each if I tried but I just wanted to give a little bit of an example for each for me, but I hope that helps clarify it somewhat.

 

[porkstock]

Kaleida, do you have a chemistry background or you just love psychedelics that much?

I think I discovered a new-to-me effect of 4-HO-MiPT the other day. Might be the first time (or strongest) I’ve experienced audio distortions.

It was hard to tell because 1) I was tripping 2) I was listening to vinyl for basically the first time 3) on a likely 50 year old player that wobbles, so I wasn’t sure if the sound *was* actually distorted or if this was the type of effect I would expect from 4-HO-DiPT (only from what I’ve read)?

I’ve read a half dozen erowid reports on miprocin today, and like 4 of them mentioned audio effects - I have done a lot of reading on it in the past, but never noticed it until now.

Have you guys experienced audio distortions on 4-HOMiPT? Is the effect similar or much stronger from 4-HO-DiPT? I thought iprocin was unique in this regard.
Did you enjoy it or do you find it distracting/irritating/disconcerting?
Is it a downward pitch for you?

 

[Kaleida]

Kaleida, do you have a chemistry background or you just love psychedelics that much?

Just the latter. I played Pokémon games through my high school chemistry class and basically felt like I was starting at nothing when I started researching psychedelics. When I started becoming obsessed with understanding drugs it was more so because I was shifting over from an interest in computer programming and saw each molecule as a distinct way to sort of hack my brain and learn how to tweak its functions in the directions of my choosing.

Have you guys experienced audio distortions on 4-HOMiPT? Is the effect similar or much stronger from 4-HO-DiPT? I thought iprocin was unique in this regard.

I've gotten this from 4-HO-MiPT, but only at 50 mg. The base DiPT is actually the one that is known for producing this effect selectively and particularly efficiently, I've gotten it from 4-HO-DiPT but only weakly for a moment at 30 mg (which is the highest I've gone with it so far). The effect on 4-HO-MiPT was stronger but the dosage was also higher, and it still wasn't really strong compared to DiPT, although it was comparable to it.

I'm pretty sure it's just a property of isopropyl tryptamines in general, thus why the most base dual isopropyl tryptamine is the most efficient at it, but the others can often do it somewhat too. 5-MeO-DiPT is supposedly more known for producing auditory distortions than 4-HO-DiPT too but I haven't had any with it yet, taking it up to 10 mg orally. I haven't gotten any with the other isopropyl 5-substituted tryptamines I've used either (5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-EiPT) although I have gotten it from MiPT at 50 mg. Again it was not strong compared to DiPT, but it seemed to be the same kind of effect.

Did you enjoy it or do you find it distracting/irritating/disconcerting?

On 4-HO-MiPT I found it purely entertaining because I only noticed it after coming out of a really heavy peak spent in silence and I walked into the living room to hear my roommate watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the first thing I heard was Buffy's voice shifted down and I burst out laughing. I don't find it to have much potential to be annoying when it's low intensity but on DiPT it can be a different story, sometimes I just want to enjoy its standard psychedelic effects that I really like and I can't because it really makes me want to listen to some music but it will all sound super wonky and disharmonious if I do, and not to mention the effect can be physically painful for me when strong enough creating this odd sensation and annoying ringing in my ears, although so far this has only happened with DiPT for me. It can be fascinating and enjoyable too if you're either new to it or do the right sorts of things like just listen to nature rather than try to enjoy music when it's obviously not going to happen. The last time I took it I ended up drinking alcohol at the end to get rid of the painful ringing but after that spent the trip laughing whenever I would be thrown off by the weird voices on TV that I kept forgetting were going to happen.

Is it a downward pitch for you?

Yup.

I've known others to say this about 4-HO-MiPT too especially with higher dosages though not always; I think it's a relatively normal reaction but just not the most common effect of all probably because of how the non-DiPT isopropyl tryptamines all just seem to be relatively weaker in this way, and also more obviously psychedelic in a standard way at the same time than DiPT most of the time.

 

[porkstock]

Ok yeah I definitely had confused 4-ho-DiPT with plain ol’ DiPT as far as being known for auditory effects.

All the miprocin reports I noticed (I read yours as well Kaleida - nice...and are you female? I didn’t know)...all the reports that mentioned auditory distortion from miprocin seemed to be down in pitch. Would be interesting to know what it’s interacting with to produce that. Still a 5-HT2 receptor subtype or something else? Something specific to auditory neurons?

Here’s a doodle I did during a work call today. An attempt to capture CEVs from my 17 mg miprocin this weekend.
MiPTdala: (like mandala)

 

[ecstacylover]

Great experience yesterday with 23mg+~750mg phenibut faa. Spent most of the trip walking around outside. Seems really versatile. Could see it being hedonistic but the therapeutic potential was what shined through for me. Quite down to earth material. Will explore again at a higher dose.

OEVs emphasized organic forms and earthen qualities, which is exactly what I noticed with 5-MeO-MiPT in a similar scenery last year. Wrote up some notes last night on my visual experiences with 4-sub-DMT/MET's back in 2014/15 to compare them with 4-HO-MiPT, but I need to develop them further by revisiting those compounds in a scenic setting and also exploring 4-HO-MiPT further.

 

[porkstock]

@Kaleida Why is the isopropyl on 4-ho-mipt locked in place but the methyl and ethyl of 4-ho-met are free to rotate?
Can’t the isopropyl do the same rotation or is there some steric hindrance or something?

 

[Didgital]

@Kaleida Why is the isopropyl on 4-ho-mipt locked in place but the methyl and ethyl of 4-ho-met are free to rotate?
Can’t the isopropyl do the same rotation or is there some steric hindrance or something?

The isopropyl group is definitely able to rotate, tho who knows maybe it cant make a complete rotation due to being close to the OH group.

I actually tried this somewhat recently and I really enjoyed it, much more so than 4-ho-dipt. I found it to be actually most similar to 4-ho-met, though less visual. I took it at a drum n bass concert and was able to socialize, dance hard, or relax as I chose fit. What surprised me the most was the duration. It was much longer than 4-ho-dipt, and more resembled a psilo or even a 4-ho-met. After the 6 hr show, I drove home and I was definitely not baseline even by the time I made it home.

Would repeat

 

[porkstock]

I found 4-ho-mipt to be actually most similar to 4-ho-met, though less visual.

Would you say there is any advantage of using 4-ho-mipt over 4-ho-Met? If -Met is more visual is -mipt more..anything? From my reading is seems like 4-ho-Met is more recreational and less “deep”

 

[Listening]

Would you say there is any advantage of using 4-ho-mipt over 4-ho-Met? If -Met is more visual is -mipt more..anything? From my reading is seems like 4-ho-Met is more recreational and less “deep”

Fwiw, I find them quite different. Ymmv.

 

[ecstacylover]

Tried this a couple more times and I like it quite a lot.

A couple weeks ago I went with 22mg and then ended up redosing 18mg @T+3:30. The first couple hours were more psychedelic and although it was cold outside, I walked down to a lake and sat down during the peak. By two hours in the headspace was mostly gone, and it transitioned into a much more recreational sort of state which the redose just extended. Felt a strong urge to connect with people and I reached out to my cousin and told him that I missed him and we ended up texting back and forth the rest of the night.

On New Years eve I decided to go with 25mg but it was much slower to hit me this time, probably because I had eaten not long before dosing. I decided to redose and @T+1:30 I took 15mg more. To speed up the onset I snorted the redose, which was quite unpleasant and felt like I had sand all in my nostrils. As the redose kicked in I hopped in the shower where I realized that I felt remarkably dissociated. My body was quite numb and for a bit it almost felt like more like a dissociative than a psychedelic. I got in bed and spent the night listening to music, and the visuals and headspace became quite strong, much stronger than my prior experiences with it. This experience also lasted much longer than my previous experiences with it and I did recently start taking omeprazole (CYP inhibitor), which is the only thing I can think that might have contributed.

On this most recent experience I noticed this unique effect where a matrix of vortices would develop across my visual field, dragging whatever I was looking at (e.g. text on my computer screen) into spiral-like sinks. I actually saw hints of this on my previous experience, but it was much more prominent in the most recent one, so it seems like it might be a 4-HO-MiPT visual signature, for myself at least.

While my last experience was quite enjoyable overall, I would say it was less recreational than the previous two. Those first two trips on it were psychedelic enough for the first couple hours, and then they transitioned into a quite hedonistic state which definitely made me understand what @Pfafffed mentioned, something along the lines of "4-HO-MiPT sometimes just leaves you stoned."

I haven't really tripped on any other 4-sub-tryps since 2014/15, and the experiences I had on 4-x-MET/DMT during that time were much more disorienting, visual, and threatening to the ego than anything I've gotten from 4-HO-MiPT. I'm hesitant to say 4-HO-MiPT is less psychedelic though because my worldview has changed significantly since then, which believe probably does impact the experience. Plus those were among my first psychedelic experiences so I was probably more sensitive to the effects as well. Still, I'm quite keen to revisit those substances and see if they still will affect me as strongly. I'd also like to grab some others as well (4-x-DPT/EPT in particular), as I feel like the experiences I've had with 4-HO-MiPT and 5-MeO-MiPT over the past year or so has really begun to open my eyes to the richness of tryptamines.

 

[arrall]

I had a very intense, life-changing trip from about 30mg of 4-HO-MiPT a bit over a year ago. I ended up living other imaginary people's lives amongst other things. Really changed the way I see the world.

I found the sound alternation more annoying than DiPT, primarily because of how hard I was tripping and the fact that it only altered certain sounds instead of shifting the pitch of everything I heard like DiPT did. It took me months to be able to hear my phone ding without it sometimes sounding slightly off-pitch.

EDIT: Here is something that I wrote while coming down. I came to the conclusion that "Everyone who exists should get everything they need to continue existing."

Your body has things it automatically does as long as you are alive. Awake or asleep, no matter what you are doing. Every beat of your heart. Every breath of your lungs.

But what people often overlook is that your mind does too. Entire worldviews constructed over false assumptions. The very concept that you exist. The passage of time. Or time itself; A linear idea that maybe isn't a linear reality.

Psychedelics force you to confront every assumption you make. Every way you allow other people to mistreat you. You experience thousands of other people's lives. Their pain and suffering. The lives of a text message or a plastic bag. But they also make you have to experience doing every automatic process of your mind. The beliefs you have about the world.

They told me that I had forgotten that simply by existing I deserved to be able to continue to exist. Being alive was enough for me to deserve to continue to be alive. I had forgotten to be happy that I was alive. To enjoy the simplicities of life. To just sit there and be content with the fact that I was breathing. To not feel like every breath I took was a waste of oxygen, because it wasn't.

I don't need to justify and explain my thoughts, my feelings, my existence. I am allowed to exist and I don't need to justify that. And I had lived my entire life lacking that simple belief.

I experienced the pain and suffering of myself. Of my girlfriend. Of my parents. The culmination of every traumatic experience. And the desperate, absolute need to prevent people from ever experiencing abuse or anything traumatic and painful as much as possible.

I felt a plethora of different existences and saw who was valuable to my life and who wasn't. Who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I felt like my entire existence could be existing to make [ex-girlfriend] happy and I would be content with that. But I also saw the underlying processes leading me to feel this way. Trying to be good enough assuming that I would end up getting rejected. I'm so ready to be hurt that I ensure it happens. I seal my fate before it has been written. And now I have the notebook and I have the pen. I can write my own destiny. I can love her because we both deserve to be happy and most other people aren't important enough for my life to be worth the time I spend thinking about them. And that's okay. I don't have to feel guilty about that. I don't have to justify that. It's okay to put myself first. For my existence to be about me and the people I care about. Not existing to serve other people.

EDIT 2: Some more writing.

We need to just live and enjoy the simplicity and absurdity of being alive. To spend time with people we care about and not let those we don't waste time even being in our thoughts.

I never want to have a life in which I do not think about everything.
I don't want to live a life of having to numb myself.
I don't want to exist alongside other people rather than be a family and exist WITH them.
I don't want life to feel like a chore.
I want to be excited to get out of bed every day.
To go and explore the world.
To go out and change the world.

We spend our lives working for other people instead of ourselves. Our society operates on "chosen" slavery. Being able to choose which corporations you are enslaved by does not mean you have freedom.

I can't even care about rumors because the people who believe them obviously didn't trust me or think that highly of me anyways. And people who don't care about you are such a waste of time.

 

[aag]

4-HO-MiPT causes pitch shift just like DiPT, have you all noticed this? What's interesting I didn't have this effect on MiPT (without 4-HO). When the trip started to fade away I noticed how songs I know started to sound completely different. This was exactly the same effect I had on DiPT.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

4-HO-MiPT causes pitch shift just like DiPT, have you all noticed this? What's interesting I didn't have this effect on MiPT (without 4-HO). When the trip started to fade away I noticed how songs I know started to sound completely different. This was exactly the same effect I had on DiPT.

This sounds like a very atypical reaction....this is one of mine and my friends absolute favorite Tryptamines and I've probably tried at mostly oral doses around 50-60mg probably over 50 tines personally and many many more by close friends of mine and I've never experienced and sound altering effects nor has anyone else ever reported any such effect.....the only strange side effect that seems also atypical is I've noticed that a few female friends and my GF have reported urethritis from this from being reported to being incredibly uncomfortable to extremely pleasurable as it sort produced a sort of "edging orgasm" like effect.

 

[Pfafffed]

I've

4-HO-MiPT causes pitch shift just like DiPT, have you all noticed this? What's interesting I didn't have this effect on MiPT (without 4-HO). When the trip started to fade away I noticed how songs I know started to sound completely different. This was exactly the same effect I had on DiPT.

I've heard of people experiencing this, but I don't think it's common. I know people firsthand that have taken miprocin over one hundred times without experiencing any auditory distortions.

 

[Kaleida]

I've experienced DiPT-like auditory distortions on both 4-HO-MiPT and MiPT, as well as 4-HO-DiPT. They are most definitely the same kind of effect, it's very easy to recognize when you're familiar with it, but they've been much weaker than DiPT in this way for me so far. Curiously, I haven't experienced them yet on 5-MeO-DiPT (or 5-MeO-MiPT, for what it's worth).

the only strange side effect that seems also atypical is I've noticed that a few female friends and my GF have reported urethritis from this from being reported to being incredibly uncomfortable to extremely pleasurable as it sort produced a sort of "edging orgasm" like effect.

I don't know if I believe urethritis is really the cause but I've experienced this "edging orgasm" on 4-HO-MiPT too. Extremely intense and I've had it kick in as literally the first effect within like ten minutes of dosing. It's not the only psychedelic that's done that for me though, AL-LAD was the best/worst in that way, I've never taken two hits since because the stimulation was such a shock.

 

[arrall]

4-HO-MiPT causes pitch shift just like DiPT, have you all noticed this? What's interesting I didn't have this effect on MiPT (without 4-HO). When the trip started to fade away I noticed how songs I know started to sound completely different. This was exactly the same effect I had on DiPT.

I've experienced DiPT-like auditory distortions on both 4-HO-MiPT and MiPT, as well as 4-HO-DiPT. They are most definitely the same kind of effect, it's very easy to recognize when you're familiar with it, but they've been much weaker than DiPT in this way for me so far. Curiously, I haven't experienced them yet on 5-MeO-DiPT (or 5-MeO-MiPT, for what it's worth).

I've tried DiPT, 5-MeO-MiPT, and 4-HO-MiPT. I also found 5-MeO-MiPT to lack DiPT's auditory effects over multiple trips around the ~10mg oral range.

I found 4-HO-MiPT to have similar but distinct -and far less universal- auditory effects at 30mg oral. While DiPT alters the pitch universally, 4-HO-MiPT had a far milder effect and did not seem to alter the pitch of human voices. It did significantly alter things like music and phone notification/ringing tones, but when I called my friend near the peak of the trip his voice sounded relatively normal.