Russo-Ukrainian War v. World War 3?
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mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
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The insults were edited out.
We went to great lengths to let everyone know about the new zero tolerance rule on ad homs. We are allowing for a bit of a transition period, but pretty soon we will be cracking down.
My advice to everyone is to learn to communicate your thoughts in a way that attacks the ideas you disagree with rather than the person.
Mr. Krinkle
Bluelight Crew
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You know you're dealing with a Russian troll when literally the first thing out of their mouth in a thread about Russia's invasion is " the West". For this, they will deny any agency to the population being attacked in deciding on their future themselves.
Next, they will start to cast doubt on the fact that the events are even taking place, and start asking for facts: "Do we even know what happened to those murdered civilians? . .. "We just don't have the *full context* of how it happened... they might have been resisting arrest for all we know
At the end of the day, Igor here will throw his hands in the air, because "Its just too hard to know what's really happening" and " there are good and bad people on both sides"
Mr. Krinkle
Bluelight Crew
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Gremlins from the Kremlin
you guys have to watch that cartoon
it really is great
you guys have to watch that cartoon
it really is great
imo_incolae
Bluelighter
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But isn't that mentality potentially going to make you more easily suggestible? If you can't process someone challenging your opinion and especially can't process someone's opinion who is seeking intelligent rational and objective conversation, aren't you pretty much obsolete? Unless, you're talking to children who cannot defend themselves or articulate themselves. You can't just pretend to shut out the world when you don't get your own way and then start calling all those who don't shut out the world enemy agents. Don't you see how ridiculous that is?
It's interesting how you're approaching this. There seems a real detachment from your own capacity to think for yourself which is making it really difficult for you to approach this situation as simply two people talking. Upon challenging you can't handle explaining yourself. It has to be you saving the day against a supposed Russian troll, in your mind anyway. You keeping the bad guys away. It's bizarre and somewhat troubling but hey, over the past few years it's become normal to some degree seeing people, who at one point in their life, no doubt had their faculties about them to think for themselves. I witnessed people turn against one another over stories they were told. Literally choosing to destroy the society they lived in in order to hear the story out and expect it to be a fairytale ending. In reality, it never ends. War never ends. And not because it's inevitable. Because we live in a fucked up world man full of very rich and powerful people and full of politicians that unfortunately don't serve the people. You're doing nothing of the kind saving anybody because you have zero power over what's going on. Very few of us do. Why is that though? Almost like our votes don't count for shit and we're being lied to all the time. You think you're doing a good thing but you're actually not. You're playing a role like someone going through an amphetamine derived psychosis. Are you the superhero? The gallant warriors fighting to secure the world? And how we doing that? With our imagination? With the destruction of our communities while inducing tribalism and ripping apart the social cohesion in our societies? By parroting narratives but, like you said, having no capacity to actually spend anything longer than a few seconds or maybe minutes processing information? You're a scholar of politics, if only politics existed as a 5 minute short-form video on YouTube. You have a PhD, or at least the capacity to focus long enough to articulate those three letters before it becomes too hard to continue.
Quite a loaded statement but no substance to your argument. It's just stigma but absolutely no content. It's like religious rhetoric. The naysayers be doomed! Not just like that, it's like experiencing a child go through a tantrum because his mother won't let him be mean to other kids.
Using that logic, do you consider your mother or someone you love a Russian troll if she/they disagree with you?
And yes, the full context is required. How can you support intervention without it? I would have thought that was mandatory for anyone with the slightest bit of common sense.
As already stated, I cannot stand war. I think what's going on is a disaster. But, I think no side is justified. Debate me and I shall consider reflecting on my opinion.
thegreenhand
Bluelight Crew
@imo_incolae My post was actually in response to your claim that America helped cause this war:
I’m saying that countries other than the US are indeed capable of starting wars. This one is all on Russia imo, so I’m not sure if you would still agree with me now that I’ve clarified my view
I’m saying that countries other than the US are indeed capable of starting wars. This one is all on Russia imo, so I’m not sure if you would still agree with me now that I’ve clarified my view
MydriHaze
Ex-Bluelighter
I just love the way everybody gives support tu ukrainians, the solidarity!
What is strange is that when it's Tigré's reffugees, nobody gives a fuck and the police arrest them for the government to send them back... Systemic racism plain and simple, you even got black ukrainians refugees who are blocked at the borders while they let the toobs pass... I saw a quick documentary where someone showed his kindeness by welcoming ukrainians in his house, good nuance for them i guess....
Am i the only one who gives a flying fuck about this topic?
What is strange is that when it's Tigré's reffugees, nobody gives a fuck and the police arrest them for the government to send them back... Systemic racism plain and simple, you even got black ukrainians refugees who are blocked at the borders while they let the toobs pass... I saw a quick documentary where someone showed his kindeness by welcoming ukrainians in his house, good nuance for them i guess....
Am i the only one who gives a flying fuck about this topic?
In addition to their Whataboutism, another device used by the Russian Troll is Bothsidesism:
"Where a person tries to make you believe that both sides are equally responsible for something even though one is really, clearly, at fault.
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
The russians were raping children as young as 3. They are evil. Putin is evil. WWWWWWWHHHHY are we not going in there and stopping them. IDGAF if it leads to world war 3 at this point. We must take a stand for our god damm fucking morals and values we have.
We can not let this genocide occur and the others such as the genocide of Muslims in china and burma. We have to liberate the god dam fucking globe from these psychopathic fucked in the head folk.
How the fuck can be stand by and watch them burn alive entire villages and mass rape. Russia is the gravest threat to the world since adolf hitler.
China will collapse with this fking dumb ass lockdown. How stupid you gotta be to lockdown 26 million peop[le in a city with no food. People are very angry when they are starving. Goodbye the CCP. Xijinping and his mornonic policy is gonna be his downfall lol.. and i thought he was smarter than that. Dude is fucing dumb.
North korea will soon after collapse without china propping it up. Russia will prob start a nuclear war. But i believe their ICBMs will mostly fail. They are poorly maintained.
I hope they give ukraine everything it needs to defeat russia.
We can not standdddd by anymore. China might get desperate and try attempt taiwain if covid collpases them aswell.
We can not let this genocide occur and the others such as the genocide of Muslims in china and burma. We have to liberate the god dam fucking globe from these psychopathic fucked in the head folk.
How the fuck can be stand by and watch them burn alive entire villages and mass rape. Russia is the gravest threat to the world since adolf hitler.
China will collapse with this fking dumb ass lockdown. How stupid you gotta be to lockdown 26 million peop[le in a city with no food. People are very angry when they are starving. Goodbye the CCP. Xijinping and his mornonic policy is gonna be his downfall lol.. and i thought he was smarter than that. Dude is fucing dumb.
North korea will soon after collapse without china propping it up. Russia will prob start a nuclear war. But i believe their ICBMs will mostly fail. They are poorly maintained.
I hope they give ukraine everything it needs to defeat russia.
We can not standdddd by anymore. China might get desperate and try attempt taiwain if covid collpases them aswell.
imo_incolae
Bluelighter
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- Apr 3, 2022
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- 192
The US is not the only country capable of starting war. I agree with this. Every country has their own agenda. Or should I say, government, because I don't believe most governments have their country's interests at heart. I think long gone are the days the average person actually made a difference in affecting outcomes. The things we can do are the same as what privileges you give a child that is behaving. Your son wants to drive your car and know (obviously) that isn't happening anytime soon so you let him/her sit in the driving seat and play with the steering wheel. The child doesn't actually get to drive but the child feels like they have had the responsibility of doing so given to them so it keeps them quiet.
I think Russia had their agenda and that was to punish Ukraine for not meeting their agreements and for playing devils advocate with the West sabotaging diplomatic solutions. This is well documented. After all, this is a conflict that has been going on for decades. This isn't new despite most normies and the average person jumping on the band wagon turning on just because their lives have been disturbed by the stories they are hearing and seeing. Ukraine have sabotaged lots of opportunity to resolve many issues that exist and the things Ukraine have done to posture to Russia breaks many laws and protocols that any decent and reputable country would condemn. The Neo Nazi element of the conflict, which is very real and exists because the Ukraine government have not been willing to eradicate the real threat of extreme political ideology in their country is a big factor. This has been a real problem in Ukraine and something that internally alone has ruptured affairs. The country is splintered regardless and that's before Russia got involved. The amount of problems with corruption in government in Ukraine, failing to actually establish a viable government in the first place and a fairly varied history in regards to all the stuff you would point instantly and say "That is fucked up" if you looked at any other country not being propped up as a victim right now. Ukraine is not a victim, not if you look at the facts. Ukraine if anything is a victim of its own politics and storied unstable history. Ukraine has been fighting itself long before anyone was interested.
Do I think that allows carte blanche to invade? No.
But I can also see why Russia has lost its patience and gone in to attempt to restore some level of normality through its authority. And let's face it, if you're a neighbouring country to the US for example and you dwindle in the shadows of its might, richness and military power it doesn't matter how sentimental and self loathing you are - when you poke that bear you pay the price. Ukraine is simply being propped up as Russia's equal by the West but in reality, Ukraine is not on that scale and that's not just down to geography but also down to how Ukraine has sought to guide its country politically. And then we go back to a storied history of corruption, violence, polarizing political issues, unrest and suffering of which Ukraine has done to itself. You should never seek to get the big dog out of its cage just because you have friends who you think will fight your wars. There comes a day when you're walking home and the big dog stalks you down when you can't run behind your friends. That's not unfair. Its nature. Its how the world works. All that is happening now is that is being pushed to one side and a narrative thrown on top that tries to deny the reality of the situation. Its like the George Floyd spectacle. People didn't know at the time that George was actually a man with a prolific history that involved some serious crimes that he served time for. He was no spring chicken and the media lauded him as a saint because there was opportunity to exploit the situation and raise his character beyond the gutter in which it really existed. So then everybody started marching for defunding of the police and then we had the mass worship of BLM, which we know now turned out to largely be a farce based on conflicts of interest in regards to those funding them and in regards to the political and ideological affiliations of its founders, one of which is now refusing to disclose how she managed to acquire a $6million mansion. What it shows is just because there's momentum behind a story and clout behind names and labels and whatever we begin to idolize and venerate, doesn't imply its justness or even its credibility in the first place.
The Russian stance is one of betrayal and desperation. Nothing has worked and with Western interference in the whole process of reaching an amicable resolution, its made things worse. When you're a country the West has had a comic book disdain towards since the Cold War, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're going to be thrown in the headlines anyway and vilified and even when you're not, you're secretly being shunned behind closed doors of our governments anyway even when our countries are at peace. This is the clown world of politics. But that was my point to begin with.
Enjoy your Sunday man! Do what I do and get some air when things get a little heated and you become overly invested in things going on around you. Believe me, for all the effort you're putting in to retort me, you're expending WAY MORE than what you're hoping to receive as the desired end result. But hey, this is politics. When the riff raff argue amongst themselves over stuff that isn't really at the core of the issues while the rulers knowing their subjects are distracted continue with their real agendas.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
This isn’t ending anytime soon the global establishment will give Ukraine endless weaponry, and Putin’s 100k troops vs a country of 40 million doesn’t look so good. I like that Russia is going to be buying gold at a variable rate. The pressure this will put on the world economy coupled with the wests move away from meritocracy may bring us some real change, for better or worse.
Electrum1
Bluelighter
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- Nov 22, 2021
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Interesting (not short) thread
Makes me think about what happens when oil and gold are traded in non U.S. Dollars, and what that means if the U.S. loses world reserve currency status. Multiple countries would unload their U.S. Treasury debt (Trillions). Russia already did. They had over $100B of U.S. debt in 2017 and now it's like $3B.
Here's the thread:
Makes me think about what happens when oil and gold are traded in non U.S. Dollars, and what that means if the U.S. loses world reserve currency status. Multiple countries would unload their U.S. Treasury debt (Trillions). Russia already did. They had over $100B of U.S. debt in 2017 and now it's like $3B.
Here's the thread:
imo_incolae
Bluelighter
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- Apr 3, 2022
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- 192
Yeah, that's very true. The funding won't stop nor will the arming either. I think Russia will succeed in their goals though.
It's all about damage limitation and controlling the narrative. The reality is Ukraine will capitulate to Russia and already do anyway because Russia is the big superpower next door to them. The West are betting on the underdog because they have vested interests in Ukraine that go beyond freedom and hugs. The reality has already been decided though. The whole spectacle is try and define the narrative so that history can be manipulated to reflect Western political objectives so there is always reason to summon the bogeyman. It's so the West can say "Remember when *THAT* happened? Well now that's why you're going to accept *THESE* new changes" just like they said "COVID-19, so we can do whatever we want". That will just keep the war on terror going as well as keep the gears of the military industrial complex churning away. Now they have the perfect narrative to expand militarization. You have countries like Germany that haven't took such a big move since the world wars. Even Australia is putting in heavy investment into their military.
This isn't good news. It's going to be the citizens of the countries who have their country pushed into a permanent state of emergency and militarization that suffer. That's not much different to China and North Korea. And anybody should know that China and NK use their military might and power to do more than 'defend' from external threats. The wall that goes up to 'protect' people also becomes the wall which traps those people in forced to submit to the dominant authority. And that means to the most normie of norms - less freedom, more state control over everything and start to slowly say goodbye to the world you used to live in. And it seems like over the past few years the one message you've been forced to accept is say goodbye to the world you used to live in.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Putin has put general Aleksandr Dvornikov in charge of the entire ground invasion of ukraine. Gen Dvornikov trained in Soviet military doctrines that view obliterating civilian targets as a means of gaining battlefield momentum he used horrific tactics in syria flattening the city of Aleppo using nerve gas, systemic rape, and torture centers. This is what the people of Ukraine need to brace for and what western alliances need to arm then to fight against.
anyone who thinks they can intellectualize the pros and cons of this war or sympathize with putin I can’t understand that perspective. There are things in life where there is no question of what is right and what is wrong and if you can’t figure it out then I don’t understand your perspective on the world.
peace is a lovely idea but this is reality
anyone who is taking up the side of Russia where they are jailing people for talking negatively against the war can go and live over there and rescind their residence in the terrible west
anyone who thinks they can intellectualize the pros and cons of this war or sympathize with putin I can’t understand that perspective. There are things in life where there is no question of what is right and what is wrong and if you can’t figure it out then I don’t understand your perspective on the world.
peace is a lovely idea but this is reality
anyone who is taking up the side of Russia where they are jailing people for talking negatively against the war can go and live over there and rescind their residence in the terrible west
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
Russia has now started using chemical weapons on ukraine. We must launch a mass invasion of russia and take out putin
imo_incolae
Bluelighter
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- Apr 3, 2022
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Its called being objective. That's how we make sense of the world. It doesn't matter how hard you try and persuade people into thinking otherwise. We solve murders and prosecute criminals based on evidence, not based on mob psychology and groupthink and sensationalist emotionally and politically charged influences. If we did every police officer you would bump into would theoretically have a reason to arrest you. The world would be fucked. Nuclear weapons would have been released years ago. We wouldn't exist. That is a fact.
Russia has their reasons for escalating the conflict with Ukraine. This is a fact. A fact you might not want to accept but its a fact nonetheless. Away from the Hollywood props even your leaders recognise this to be truth. And they do so because they themselves have such moves at their disposal. The West has used them many times to attack countries that were not aligned to their political agendas, some directly and some by proxy. And then let's not even talk about the domestic agendas that they utilised against their own people. One of those agendas is why you hide behind an alias on a forum right now. They use these cards willingly and often and they don't backtrack on them very easily. We're in 2022 and only now after 50+ years are we seeing a slow resurgence in research on drugs for treatment in mental health disorders that have been blanket banned longer than most people on this forum have been alive.
We've bombed, slaughtered, destroyed, raped and pillaged endless victims. If you could really see what much of the world thinks about Western regimes when the CNN cameras are not rolling and corporate and private interest shills are not writing bullshit articles, you'd change your opinion rapidly. And besides, we've never fixed one problem we supposedly stumbled across randomly on our heroic journey across the world rescuing and liberating others.
Russia is no different. They pulled a card you should be familiar with because its the same card that your rulers use and have used throughout history. They have their interests just like the West. They have their reasons just like the west.
There are no heroes and saints in this story. Not the West nor Russia.
And yes, there are always questions. The day you stop questioning is the day you become a victim. And when you're talking about war, that's the most murkiest and corrupt area you could ever mention. Every modern war was based on lies. Not one as we know it from our classroom conditioning is true. War is about profit and power and the elite classes. Its what rich and powerful people do when they get bored or get given too much space to enact their predatory psychopathic dark agendas. Yes, some people really do have that much sway over whether the world goes to hell in a hand basket. The power structures in place in our world is frightening.
You're not part of the process. You're a peasant. A nobody. You're a useless eater who is consuming too many resources who can just about be used as a repeater to propagate agendas of the ruling classes. You're not invited to Davos or world summits of any kind. You're not in on the truth of what is going on. You get your "truth" from the backwaters of reality that are bought and paid for by those very ruling classes to create a feedback loop. Just remember that. That goes for everybody, including me.
So the least you can do. The very LEAST, is be objective. Respond instead of react. Be proactive instead of reactive. Seek evidence not spoon-fed solutions. Challenge the narrative and ALL narratives. Challenge mine, challenge everyone's. Its usually the person with the most followers and with the most support you really want to scrutinize, especially in politics. Biden got into office yet had the poorest ratings on record. Trump had higher ratings and he was the bogeyman. That being said, you challenge Trump. You challenge everything. When someone says don't challenge something you should be challenging why you shouldn't be challenging it. Challenge me. I implore you too. Rip apart everything I say and expose some flaw and then posit that flaw. Challenge God. Challenge science. Challenge reality.
That is what debate is all about. And that is how progress is made in our society. Challenging, by the way, doesn't imply seeking to replace an unsolved issue with a fabricated solution. It doesn't mean selectively manufacturing narratives to cater to filling in gaps in current understanding. If we can't get cars to fly yet then the chances are, it's because we are not yet at level of understanding required to make them fly. You wouldn't turn that around and say Hitler has risen from the dead to reignite the war against the West. It also doesn't mean the debate is settled. It means we don't (yet) have the comprehension to settle it. Challenge it by any means but projecting a bullshit narrative doesn't mean we have flying cars.
And yes, peace is amazing.
And it is the reality of our planet if we didn't exist on it. We are the ones who create these stories using the bit of jelly in our heads but we forget, away from our temporal meat bag, we are fucking nothing in comparison to the vastness of space. We cling to all these stories like they are concrete but they are not. We are the only ones to try so desperately to delude ourselves into thinking we are beyond our finite nature. And we pay the price for it like we are doing today.
We could live in a world that is largely peaceful. It can and has been done. All the conflicts we have experienced that have been monumental in our history are down to the expanding power, influence and wealth of the ruling classes. Poor people don't go to war on their own but the rich get the poor to do that. Poor people don't sit at the table deliberating on invasion, but the rich and powerful do. The hierarchy that exists in our world dictates things like this happening. And the hierarchy isn't an entity that transcends reality, space and time etc. Those hierarchies are constructs made in the heads of humans and perpetuated by their subjects. And so they can be challenged and revealed for what they are.
If you want this to stop, you have to look at those who are making you believe this HAS to happen. You can just choose to not believe in either side, because either side is just the same coin in reality.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Putin said there is no chance of peace that they are going to accomplish their goals in ukraine and brushed aside all accusations of war crimes etc as being fake and set up by the Ukrainians.
Putin said Kyiv had derailed peace talks by staging what he said were fake claims of Russian war crimes and by demanding security guarantees to cover the whole of Ukraine.
this is why I don’t believe that putin ever had any intention of negotiating in good faith and anyone who thinks that the outcome of this situation was going to end up any way other then in a military conflict is either truly delusional or just wants to knock the west and be an apologist for a dictator and murderer.
Committing acts and then blaming them for why you can’t have peace
You cannot negotiate with that. And you should never appease a dictator anyway.
if putin feels like the west is constantly keeping him down or is a threat to Russia that’s his problem he needs to get a shrink work on his self esteem and stop being such a delicate little snow
we don’t need to keep appeasing him and babying his delicate ego
He is a pathological liar…
“There was no such silence when provocations were staged in Syria, when they portrayed the use of chemical weapons by the Assad government. Then it turned out that it was fake. It's the same kind of fake in Bucha." —-putin lying about Syria
putin claims that everything is fake which it was a chemical weapon attack that killed those people in syria Assad gassed his people and then bombed the clinic where they were being treated.
I don’t care if he is offended by the west. I’m offended by him.
And your proof of that statement is? Vague reports of a handful of people feeling ill is not evidence, it's grasping. Why would they choose to use chemical weapons in one instance but not across the board.. it is completely illogical.
The desperation to escalate this situation is palpable. I've stopped paying attention to it altogether because it has reached that level of obvious ridiculousness now.
I rest my case. HONK HONKDestroy your own economy to hurt Putin, who totally won't just sell the oil and gas to China and India instead
