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Covid-19 The New Covid Megathread v.Oh-my-cron!

The data you are requesting is not available.
the death data are available- and i fully trust the denialists in this thread to have posted every single death that can even be vaguely linked directly to the impact of a lockdown. they have not. nor has anyone else proposed a mechanism by which lockdowns themselves could have contributed to those deaths.


I meant the long term effects of COVID, including long COVID... which is what I thought you meant. Either way, it doesn't matter.
fair enough,

I appreciate that but can you quote something (rather than linking it) that indicates how much more likely people are to die?

I respect your opinion.

Do you honestly believe that more than four times the number of people died from COVID (*just to be clear, I mean: long term effects from COVID not long-COVID specifically) than were reported during those 10 months in 2020?

I find that very difficult to believe.
if 900 people died of covid directly, there would have been (very conservatively) approximately 100k cases in total. depending on age and severity of infection, people would have been 1.7-3.3% more likely to die 6-12 months after infection than had then not been infected (these numbers are from the articles i posted). i think this accounts for a significant proportion of the excess deaths.


It's impossible to say. The reason I keep saying the data you are requesting is unavailable is because it's impossible to measure the damage lockdowns have done to people's health. Pretty much everyone I know put on at least 10 pounds. I know two people who've had gastric bypass surgery because they ballooned so much. Not to mention the stress. You can't measure the stress.
you are talking about the specific causes of death of people who have already died. in theory, you could look up every single cause of death and work it out. i don't know how australia reports such things so whether we personally could look it up, but it is in principle knowable.

I'm not nitpicking. You have certain educational advantages over me in this discussion, but that doesn't make you correct. Sometimes people are too close to their fields. I'm not suggesting this applies to you. I'm just saying, I don't have your faith in science and I don't take it for granted that educated people have the answers. This is not heated for me. I'm trying to tread carefully here. I like you. I don't want to offend you.
don't worry, you're not offending me and i apologise if i'm being a bit aggressive. i'm annoyed with myself for getting involved in this thread again and shouldn't be taking it out on you.

I don't have a technical objection, but I'm not going to treat it like gospel either.

It doesn't explain the 4,000 extra deaths in that period of time in Australia.
there's some info here:


it agrees with the 2 articles i posted, that contrary to my intuition people aren't actually more likely to die from heart and lung problems. deaths due to cancer and diabetes increased. you will know better than me but i hope at least 1 good thing to come out of australias draconian lockdowns is that services for cancer and diabetes patients shouldn't have been impacted due to wider strsses on health services. i know that diabetes complicates literally every health issue so it wouldn't surprise me if getting covid increases risks to diabetic patients. but this is pure speculation on my part.
I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm just burnt out. I work in an industry with very high standards in terms of COVID safety so it's still affecting me much more than it is many other Australians and I'm so over it, it's not funny.
i'm sorry you're so burnt out. its such a stressful time to be in any healthcare related job. i really hope that things relax a bit for you soon, it has been fucking relentless for nearly 2 years now.
 

I need to confer with my colleagues on this, the real experts on vaccines.

Fake news?
 
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chinup said:
if 900 people died of covid directly, there would have been (very conservatively) approximately 100k cases in total. depending on age and severity of infection, people would have been 1.7-3.3% more likely to die 6-12 months after infection than had then not been infected (these numbers are from the articles i posted). i think this accounts for a significant proportion of the excess deaths.

Still, hard to accurately do the maths without knowing the demographic breakdown. You could do it very roughly with general mortality risk but that's potentially not fair in either direction.

You did half a calculation just now.

How many people out of 100k are likely to die in a 6 (or 12) month period?

Deaths per 100,000 in Australia are somewhere between 500 and 1000.

Increase the mortality risk of the number of infected people by 5%... and does that account for the 4,000? I don't think so.
 
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chinup said:
you are talking about the specific causes of death of people who have already died. in theory, you could look up every single cause of death and work it out. i don't know how australia reports such things so whether we personally could look it up, but it is in principle knowable.

It's technically possible yes, but the data is unavailable to me.

it agrees with the 2 articles i posted, that contrary to my intuition people aren't actually more likely to die from heart and lung problems. deaths due to cancer and diabetes increased. you will know better than me but i hope at least 1 good thing to come out of australias draconian lockdowns is that services for cancer and diabetes patients shouldn't have been impacted due to wider strsses on health services. i know that diabetes complicates literally every health issue so it wouldn't surprise me if getting covid increases risks to diabetic patients. but this is pure speculation on my part.

This is another point (I've thought of like half a dozen now) that I didn't add to the initial list of potential deaths from lockdowns. I, personally, neglected my medical and dental visits because of COVID. I have a couple of relatively serious conditions. I also know numerous people who were disallowed surgeries because priority was given to COVID patients, who - at least after 2020 - were largely unvaccinated.

There were horrible cases of deaths in Australia including children (and babies) who were not allowed to cross state borders to receive the medical care they need. One of the cases was an infant in South Australia. Typically they transport patients to Melbourne. This baby died because they could not. That's one life and it's a baby. Babies aren't even remotely vulnerable to COVID.

There have been a lot of shit like this. I know someone who was going through treatment for skin cancer that spread into his spine. He had to constantly jump through hoops. His family weren't allowed to visit him. He had appointments cancelled in the name of safety... and this is Australia.

My brother lives in a poor country (relative to Australia, not Africa) in Africa. I guess it's a pretty rich African country, but I don't know what that means about the rest of the continent. When I lived there, I called it The Land of Dying Dogs.

If you go out for a walk, at night, they start following you.

It starts with one dog. Then, before you know it, there's three.

The longer you walk, the more dogs join the pack.

Eventually they will take you down.

In this African country, children aren't allowed to leave the house because of COVID. My brothers kids are being home-schooled by him. This has been going on longer than any adult lockdown in the world. It's madness.

Beyond the impact the lockdowns have had globally on the death rate (and perhaps you're right, maybe it is marginal) they have had an extraordinary effect on generations of children. My daughter hardly interacted with anyone except for her parents for months at a time. I have mental health problems. My wife has mental health problems. We needed help from our family and it wasn't available.

I see severely disabled people that I work with (the very people we were supposed to vaccinate ourselves to protect) suffering from the lockdowns and the mandates.

My grandmother has lead a hard life. She was alive during both world wars (EDIT: no, that's not possible - I am very high right now). She is almost a hundred. She is vaccinated. My father is up there, right now. He booked a ticket as soon as they changed the rules. He's been watching like a hawk, waiting for a chance to see his mother.

He sent me a message to say that she can't understand what he's saying because he has to wear a mask and a shield. She's confused by the whole situation. They tell her it's for her own good, but it's not at this point. She doesn't have many years left. She deserves to die on her terms.

I realize I'm preaching to nobody here, as if the people who make the rules are somehow listening to me... like it matters what I have to say.

I don't know any disabled people or any elderly people (and I know a lot) who want to be protected so much that they cannot live.

@chinup

Sometimes I imagine people perceiving me as hostile. We're all good. The support you provide on this website is essential. You're a good soul.

Likewise, I'm sorry if I've rubbed you the wrong way.

When COVID started, I was a new parent buying their first house and going back into the workforce after a long hiatus. Life was super hard already, without this virus. I can't help but draw the line somewhere.

The Premiere of Victoria has successfully changed the legal definition of fully vaccinated to three jabs.

What's with the pretence at this point?

Next is four jabs. Let's not fuck around. They want us to be jabbed forever. Right?

They've changed the gap between boosters to three months. First it was six months, minimum. Then five months. Then four. Now three?

How many jabs will you have per year?

I had three jabs in nine months and I still got sick.

If the vaccines worked better, I'd be less upset about the whole situation.

I really tried to do the right thing and knuckle down and not overthink it. I did it for the vulnerable people I work with and I did it for my grandma.

Now, I feel like I've been duped.

We're going way overboard with the restrictions. People should be allowed to see their family without face shields... and if people don't want to be vaccinated they shouldn't have to be vaccinated.

This is a free world that I live in, last time I checked.

The people I am paid to look after are not free and neither am I.

Nobody gives a fuck how I feel or how my grandmother feels. They care about liability. That is what's driving scientists and politicians. They don't want to be murderers.
 
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"She repeatedly tried to get back to New Zealand in a lottery-style system for returning citizens"

"She said she sent 59 documents to New Zealand authorities in Afghanistan but they rejected her application for an emergency return."

"Chris Bunny, the joint head of New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine system, told the Herald that Bellis's emergency application didn't fit a requirement that she travel within 14 days.

He said staff had reached out to Bellis about making another application that would fit within the requirements.

"This is not uncommon and is an example of the team being helpful to New Zealanders who are in distressing situations," Mr Bunny wrote."

... wait, what? what's going on here?

So she tried to return, but you can't do that if you've traveled within 14 days... then they tried to help her change her application to say she HASN'T traveled in 14 days, just adjust the dates... and she refused to do that? I don't understand? It sounds like they were trying to help her get back in by changing her paperwork... and she refused to do that?

There's something fishy here or I'm not fully understanding, but to me it sounds like she was protesting quarantine rules and chose not to go back on her own volition? Why would a pregnant white woman ever stay in that country right after stirring the Taliban up by asking about their treatment of women? Seems like suicide?
 
Yes, @Negentropic. I was aware on some level when I posted that story that it's most likely bullshit. If I was in a different head space, I would have immediately recognized it as bullshit.

I guess if you haven't gotten your ass back on Australian soil by now, there better be a damn good reason?

She's had a long fucking time. You're right.

I think I'm prone to believing these things, now, because I'm so fucking pissed with how the whole situation has been handled by the Australian government.
 
Heading out to get a vax shot that doesn't work against current variants so that I know I'm not illogical.

Going to be wearing this mask and will have a few of these signs in my yard from now on so everybody knows I'm logical.

images

images
Sorry, I've not been reading enough conspiracy theories lately, what is fauci?
 
Yep, still not seeing it.
I've had three vaccines and I didn't grow another head. It didn't cure me of anything, didn't turn me into a cyborg, just a really quick jab in the arm and people who actually study these things all their lives think I've less chance of dying.
You guys aren't used to getting free healthcare, so you're looking for the catch. Fine.
Just wear a mask, then my cancer surviving, diabetic best friend can leave her house sometime without the "I'm not at risk" people breathing all over her.

Ok well when you figure out that no healthcare is actually free, then come back and talk to me
 
I'm so fucking pissed with how the whole situation has been handled by the Australian government.
as you have the right to be! that's awful about your grandmother, I'm sorry man. If it were my mother in that situation I would be livid

If I had a choice I would stop the lockdowns or at least limit them, I do ask myself at what point are they doing more damage than good?

I just wish that people wouldn't be so vehemently against all the covid rules, it seems people either follow ALL of them, or NONE of them, there is no middle ground

middle ground is the path towards normalcy again IMO
 
Sorry, I've not been reading enough conspiracy theories lately, what is fauci?
he's the medical advisor to the president, he basically advises the president about Covid and other things and suggests the protocol

he's not an evil man as some will claim, he's just a good doctor and has no agenda, he's simply a doctor doing his job and is not involved in politics
 
Ok well when you figure out that no healthcare is actually free, then come back and talk to me
when you figure out that the US privatized healthcare system is completely assbackwards and fucked, get back to me

are you happy with the current system?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

everyone knows it means higher taxes... but in all those countries the average pay and minimum wage are also a lot higher... it balances out and is a much better system
 
when you figure out that the US privatized healthcare system is completely assbackwards and fucked, get back to me

are you happy with the current system?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i wasn't talking to you and i have zero interest in talking to you about any of this - so go ask somebody else
 
i have zero interest in talking to you about any of this
May I ask why?

either way, maybe that comment was for the other person so he can get a balanced American opinion

I thought we were cool man? You know I'm just busting your balls right? Does anyone take CEPS that seriously?
 
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Ok well when you figure out that no healthcare is actually free, then come back and talk to me
Free at the point of use, indeed someone pays, just not the sick person when they are unable to work.
the concern for my personal freedom has never trumped my concern for what I could be responsible for
Agreed, I got jabbed and wear a mask, it's not a big deal, it has zero potential to harm others and my risks to myself are my choice. My son works in a hospital, they all got jabbed way early on and I don't know of any regrets among them. It's just one safety measure amongst many. If I didn't want to then I'd have the usual middle finger to the authorities.
on Rumble channel’s “Dr. Jane Ruby Show” Wednesday, Jan. 26, Hirschman shared that he’s been seeing “unnatural blood clot combinations with strange fibrous materials” that completely filled the vascular system and totally clogged the arteries and veins of the deceased.


“I don’t know how someone could live with something like this inside of them,” he said
I suspect the desceased people he was dissecting weren't living with congealed blood inside them, but what would I know.
If you go out for a walk, at night, they start following you.

It starts with one dog. Then, before you know it, there's three.

The longer you walk, the more dogs join the pack.

Eventually they will take you down.
If you think this is unusual, try being a woman.
 
If you think this is unusual, try being a woman.

@papercuts

The dogs don't fuck you. They eat you.

I'm bisexual. I'd rather be fucked by a bunch of dudes than eaten by a bunch of dogs.

;)

EDIT: I'm not sure about the other way around. Is it better to be cannibalized or gang fucked by canines? That's a tricky one. I could go either way, I think, depending on my mood.
 
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^ You misspelled rape.

I don't wear my mask anymore unless told to by the feds. Most places here never required it anyway but I'd always get a few Karens to give me the evil eye when wearing one.

The cancel culture surrounding masks seems to have backfired because it's no longer a novelty to anyone. No one cares how much of a pussy you are for wearing a mask anymore.
 
@w01fg4ng

I think you'll find I didn't write the word rape. :)

It is implied, unless you think I'm such a slut that being gang fucked by a bunch of random stalkers is my idea of a nice afternoon.
 
Is it less traumatic to be raped by a man if you're a male bisexual?

I would think so. I don't know. It's probably also more traumatic in the long term in some ways if you're gay and you get raped.

You're reading more into my comment than I intended.

I don't have a rape fantasy. It was just banter.
 
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