Benzos benzo withdrawal- prescription taken away after two decades. how to deal??

[sorrowfulmoon]

That's fixking savage srsly. Stopping clonazepam after 25 years abruptly is just utter torture.

Ty i know right!!! :/

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

I don't see the point on weaning someone off benzos after that long ass time. I'd rather die taking benzos than wd from em after that lenght of time.

Yea i don’t understand why this clinic is saying no doctors will prescribe them anymore. Idk whether it’s our city or the whole US. Im guessing ur speaking from experience. Any suggestions?

 

[polarthedog]

Thank you sm for sharing this info. I would like to pm you in the near future as we are working with a few solutions, we are also dealing with an emergency with my grandmother that came up which has thrown a wrench in our productivity in this manner. I’m going to look up the products you mentioned and will be in touch. Im so sorry that you had gone through that in jail, must’ve been awful. From what im hearing, cold turkey sounds so unsafe!!!

Anytime, ya, I was also coming down from heavy opiate use and blood pressure medication at the same time, I’ve been through that around a dozen times. It didn’t kill me, but I’m also in my twenties.

 

[polarthedog]

Yea i don’t understand why this clinic is saying no doctors will prescribe them anymore. Idk whether it’s our city or the whole US. Im guessing ur speaking from experience. Any suggestions?

Call dozens of doctors until someone gives you what you want, that’s what I’ve done in the past.be straight up with them, tell them you want benzos, and nothing else works, if they say no, on to the next doctor.

Just don’t get multiple scripts for the same medicine, or see multiple doctors without telling them everything your taking, and letting them know about each other, that way, it’s legal

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

I am so sorry to hear this!!

This is insane!!! Nobody should have to come off their meds after that amount of time! Especially if they've been helping her!!


Benzo withdrawal can be deadly!! So definitely don't wait to act.

From my experience, there isn't much out there OTC or anything that can help with this.

It sounds like a terrible idea, but alcohol can bring down the severity of some of her symptoms, if she feels she really needs something immediately.
A few beers can help, but must be careful not to end up with an alcohol problem, because then that will exacerbate the withdrawals from both.

I have told others this who were going through benzo withdrawal and the alcohol did give them some temporary relief, since it hits a lot of the same receptor sites as benzos. But it must be done with caution and not to go overboard.

Chamomile has also been shown to help people in benzo withdrawal, at least slightly and is a less 'addictive' option.


In the mean time, as others have said, keep looking for another doctor & if she has a seizure or anything like that (audio hallucinations, etc..) you could always take her to the ER and explain the situation. They may give her a short script for another benzo until she can figure out what to do. But I wouldn't be surprised anymore in today's world. I dunno what country you're in, but in the US, they'd rather you die than give you any meds.

Stay strong friend.
Many blessings to your mother.

Wow… thank you. This insight was very helpful in suggestions as well as validation as i was reading these out loud to her. She was really glad to hear and nodding in agreement lol. We are in the US, she’s never really drank, it used to make her tired or woozy but we’ll look into it as well as a hunt for another doctor. Are there even any in the US prescribing this anymore?? I’ve always seen movies and tv shows from the 90s or 2000s w people randomly carrying said scripts in their purse lending them to a friend like it was a cigarette i.e. xanax, valium, addivan, but it definitely seems very taboo now. We have considered the emergency room but afraid of the stigma and judgment over it and ofc rn there is much heightened anxiety… literally when she first was put on this medication at all, she didn’t know what a panic attack was and had went to the emergency room by ambulance and thought she was having a heart attack. They sent her over to psychiatric and thus began the noticing how people in the medical field change their tune and starting saying it’s all in your head. I’ll keep you updated

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

she needs to actively titrate whatever medicine she has left, and seek a new doctor. I am friends with a few people in this position -- another 65 year old woman who got diagnosed with beginning dementia and FDA regs say dementia patients CANNOT be given bzds ... despite the fact their bzd addiction is what produced the dementia. It's crazy/pointless/dangerous and these doctors think they can abort 20+ year 8mg a day clonazepam habits in a month. When they figure out the ACTUAL liability of the situation, they just stop taking calls. honestly, i would seek a new doctor, an attorney and scrape together whatever street benzos/rx is left and titrate as nicely as possible. ethanol will cause glutamate rebound/possible seizure.

the only things that might be helpful here are : baclofen, possibly acomprosate but i dont know how well that does w bzds. typically it's used AFTER a librium taper for alcoholics. Anything else is going to dig a deeper hole. IF she is having severe ticks/seizure like activity just don't pass go, take her straight to ER where they will give her a temporary Rx and hopefully referral to a good physician.

Wow that’s scary about the people you know and all the things you mentioned here. I’m taking it all in. Just curious i want to clarify, does the bzd addiction cause the dementia or the withdrawal from it? Also from what i had googled of her symptoms is something that seems to be called “brain zaps” but that was mostly from ssoi inhibitors..? It’s very overwhelming. Throughout this whole “tapering” she’s been merging words together and feels like her thoughts are running together and is getting real pissed off about it cuz she is normally the one to manage all the household type things like bills, paperwork etc. I’m doing the best i can responsibility wise but she’s had a certain way of taking care of us all and doesnt like to feel this loss of control or productivity :/ even the idea that she’d have to go away to a detox is just freaking wack and scary. Luckily she aint in the pta anymore lmao. Meanwhile im writing down all this info.

 

[polarthedog]

Wow that’s scary about the people you know and all the things you mentioned here. I’m taking it all in. Just curious i want to clarify, does the bzd addiction cause the dementia or the withdrawal from it? Also from what i had googled of her symptoms is something that seems to be called “brain zaps” but that was mostly from ssoi inhibitors..? It’s very overwhelming. Throughout this whole “tapering” she’s been merging words together and feels like her thoughts are running together and is getting real pissed off about it cuz she is normally the one to manage all the household type things like bills, paperwork etc. I’m doing the best i can responsibility wise but she’s had a certain way of taking care of us all and doesnt like to feel this loss of control or productivity :/ even the idea that she’d have to go away to a detox is just freaking wack and scary. Luckily she aint in the pta anymore lmao. Meanwhile im writing down all this info.

Bzd use long term has been connected to dementia

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

Anytime, ya, I was also coming down from heavy opiate use and blood pressure medication at the same time, I’ve been through that around a dozen times. It didn’t kill me, but I’m also in my twenties.

So the doctors won’t call like the police or something for this? Just in the way that I’ve had to even switch pharmacies because of how certain drugstores would treat me when picking up her scripts in the past would act like she’s a criminal and ofc now that we found a decent pharmacy that doesn’t judge, this happens. I’ve already asked them for a bridge script which we had to do one time while away on vacation but this time was a no go as there were “no more refills”. I appreciate your speaking to this and completely sympathize for what you have been through. I’m just curious how to locate these types of doctors in america without it being an astronomical expense as well. I thought at first it was maybe a clinic thing or low income household insurance thing.. but when her primary care physician wouldn’t prescribe it either we had even noticed a few years back there were yellow papers posted on all the cabinets of the patient rooms saying “we do not prescribe benzos!” :/ they insist they are trying to help people but yea this seems like it could hurt people or drive them to look for other substances that could be more dangerous. Am kinda afraid to ask anyone for street drugs.. i see now and then a few people posting on snapchat that they sell pills etc but w everything being laced with fentanyl lately it’s tricky n a lil scary ya know..

 

[dalpat077]

posting because my mother who I live with has recently been taken off her medication of 25+ years. We are at a loss what to do and she is really feeling sick. her clinic and others that take our health insurance have stopped prescribing benzos and she has been taking clonazepam 1mg 2x daily. A new doctor since the others have left doing telehealth phone calls since the pandemic and been "weaning" her off for 3 months which was meaning taken every other day and then every two days and then stopped. we have exhausted our pursuit in questions between her therapist and the new doctor barely communicates and does not seem to care about the patients at all as her other doctor did. It's very distressing she's been experiencing a lot of withdrawal symptoms and erratic heartbeat. I'm wondering if we should look into detoxes, rehabs or other…holistic forms of care don't seem to be managing this and we don't know where to turn. I wonder what any of you all do who may have experience in the situation. I don't believe it was the right call by health professionals since she never abused her dosage and the last doctor was even starting to raise it because of the amount she was on. in my opinion it's horrible to watch her go through this and have a return of anxiety attacks and other symptoms. don't know where to inquire safely for support or suggestions thank you.

This is nothing short of fucking ridiculous. And yeah: it angers me to to hear about this. After THAT long a period of time and no abuse on her part? It really is fucking ridiculous.

Somebody has mentioned tapering and how long it would take. Also mentioned The Ashton Manual. I'm going to include a link to it below to make things easier and clearer. I've not looked at it this morning as yet but I will. Almost guaranteed there is a tapering schedule for that dosage and almost guaranteed it's a fuck load longer than three months.

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

benzo.org.uk

Very easy to see how the so-called opioid epidemic and related deaths started huh. Patients being prescribed opioids and then having the rug pulled out from under them with little to no fucking consideration for the patient concerned. And of course: by that stage they're then sitting with a physical dependence and are left with no option but to score on the street and with the associated risks. Seems like this is the same thing repeating itself over and over again (this not the first case I've read/heard about like this of late).

I don't know what to suggest other than to print out one of those tapering schedules and take it to medical professional or some or the other council or whatever.

Only thing I can tell you is that alcohol does indeed ease withdrawal symptoms. Emphasis on the word "ease" and nothing more i.e. not going to ensure no seizures or other adverse withdrawal symptoms but will make them bearable. But that's not the best advice I could give. Not for fear of her becoming dependent on alcohol instead of benzos. i.e. that take some time to happen as far as I know. I would go so far as to say that trying to score benzos. off of the street in an effort to take the edge off and to use to taper isn't a good idea either. They seem to now have become the number one candidate for being cut with other shit. Next thing you look: she's down the river without a paddle and with an opioid addiction.

But safe to say you've come to the right place. Good decision on your part. There is collectively more experience here than the entire fucking medical profession. And it's based mostly on practical experience as opposed to some theoretical bullshit that some fucking quack learned from a textbook.

 

[dalpat077]

Bzd use long term has been connected to dementia

^ True story. Also supposed "treatment resistant depression". Oh and let's not forget about "rebound anxiety" and "rebound insomnia". Both added bonuses for when you're going through benzo. withdrawal and your skin is crawling and your eyes feel like they're as large as dinner plates.

 

[polarthedog]

So the doctors won’t call like the police or something for this? Just in the way that I’ve had to even switch pharmacies because of how certain drugstores would treat me when picking up her scripts in the past would act like she’s a criminal and ofc now that we found a decent pharmacy that doesn’t judge, this happens. I’ve already asked them for a bridge script which we had to do one time while away on vacation but this time was a no go as there were “no more refills”. I appreciate your speaking to this and completely sympathize for what you have been through. I’m just curious how to locate these types of doctors in america without it being an astronomical expense as well. I thought at first it was maybe a clinic thing or low income household insurance thing.. but when her primary care physician wouldn’t prescribe it either we had even noticed a few years back there were yellow papers posted on all the cabinets of the patient rooms saying “we do not prescribe benzos!” :/ they insist they are trying to help people but yea this seems like it could hurt people or drive them to look for other substances that could be more dangerous. Am kinda afraid to ask anyone for street drugs.. i see now and then a few people posting on snapchat that they sell pills etc but w everything being laced with fentanyl lately it’s tricky n a lil scary ya know..

Not in my experience, no, they are bound by the HIPAA (I think that’s how it’s spelled)

For me, I had health insurance, that’s how I afforded it.

also, it might make you feel better to know, I am a drug addict. I have mental problems, and I use drugs for those, and then also get high off the same meds. I would get prescribed more than I needed, and stockpile the pills. At one time I had about 20-30 bottle stuff full of pills, and I had the police(or maybe it was the ambulance people, I was high) bring me like 7 of the bottles. I never had any legal issues from years of doing that. I doubt you will from trying to get 60 something year old lady a benzo script

Also, my mother in law currently has a script for 0.25 mg of Xanax a day. I know that’s not a lot, I’m just telling you to confirm that benzos are still currently prescribed

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

This is nothing short of fucking ridiculous. And yeah: it angers me to to hear about this. After THAT long a period of time and no abuse on her part? It really is fucking ridiculous.

Somebody has mentioned tapering and how long it would take. Also mentioned The Ashton Manual. I'm going to include a link to it below to make things easier and clearer. I've not looked at it this morning as yet but I will. Almost guaranteed there is a tapering schedule for that dosage and almost guaranteed it's a fuck load longer than three months.

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

benzo.org.uk

Very easy to see how the so-called opioid epidemic and related deaths started huh. Patients being prescribed opioids and then having the rug pulled out from under them with little to no fucking consideration for the patient concerned. And of course: by that stage they're then sitting with a physical dependence and are left with no option but to score on the street and with the associated risks. Seems like this is the same thing repeating itself over and over again (this not the first case I've read/heard about like this of late).

I don't know what to suggest other than to print out one of those tapering schedules and take it to medical professional or some or the other council or whatever.

Only thing I can tell you is that alcohol does indeed ease withdrawal symptoms. Emphasis on the word "ease" and nothing more i.e. not going to ensure no seizures or other adverse withdrawal symptoms but will make them bearable. But that's not the best advice I could give. Not for fear of her becoming dependent on alcohol instead of benzos. i.e. that take some time to happen as far as I know. I would go so far as to say that trying to score benzos. off of the street in an effort to take the edge off and to use to taper isn't a good idea either. They seem to now have become the number one candidate for being cut with other shit. Next thing you look: she's down the river without a paddle and with an opioid addiction.

But safe to say you've come to the right place. Good decision on your part. There is collectively more experience here than the entire fucking medical profession. And it's based mostly on practical experience as opposed to some theoretical bullshit that some fucking quack learned from a textbook.

Omg this whole comment… so awesome. Thank you All i can say right now is exactly on everything!!!! Yea I really appreciate everyones responses here. This has been so helpful while going through this whole uncertainty process of what to do next. I would like to dialogue more. I’m going to look at the link you sent and a few more things. Yeah this situation first started when her doctor of two decades left the practice unknowingly or perhaps was fired And the new doctor who is cold as hell just began telling her he needed to take her and the other patients off of it and begin the “weening” process :/// last summer he brought it up and she got her therapist to advocate on her behalf on a conference call together could they push it back until her daughter turned 18 so she wouldn’t have to get sick or go away to a detox… as well as she takes care of my elderly grandmother. I could tell you exactly how he cut it down but December was the last script and that was still pushing it and she was feeling erratic taking it every other day bs nonsense. We’re discussing rn the effectiveness of what she has left breaking it in half or quarters etc. She’s been stretching this and she literally never feels well.

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

Not in my experience, no, they are bound by the HIPAA (I think that’s how it’s spelled)

For me, I had health insurance, that’s how I afforded it.

also, it might make you feel better to know, I am a drug addict. I have mental problems, and I use drugs for those, and then also get high off the same meds. I would get prescribed more than I needed, and stockpile the pills. At one time I had about 20-30 bottle stuff full of pills, and I had the police(or maybe it was the ambulance people, I was high) bring me like 7 of the bottles. I never had any legal issues from years of doing that. I doubt you will from trying to get 60 something year old lady a benzo script

Also, my mother in law currently has a script for 0.25 mg of Xanax a day. I know that’s not a lot, I’m just telling you to confirm that benzos are still currently prescribed

Okay cool, everything you share means a lot! I used to go to and discuss with my uncle who was a long time user of many things and would have very mature conversations regarding everything but he passed away a couple years ago which has made getting through this even harder. He would be my go to for all these things and why i am so pro harm reduction and understanding regarding users, mental illness, anxieties. I’d even learned how to bring him back to life lol, not funny but yanno. I wasn’t there when he passed and don’t know what or who caused it but ya get the drift.. after her brother dying there’s really been no one else to talk to so openly regarding my mom’s addiction or anxiety disorder or anything of the like. Reading this to myself I realize we really need a better support system in our lives. My mother’s been trying to maintain a level of discretion till i turned 18 so she felt i was not in danger of being taken away or something.

 

[dalpat077]

For the sake of completeness (if only of my own previous post) here's a slow tapering schedule for clonazepam (Klonopin) 3mg daily with substitution of diazepam (Valium). Problem here is: you'd still need to get a prescription for some diazepam but maybe if you're able to present and substantiate the reasons for needing the same it wouldn't be a problem.

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

benzo.org.uk

I've not counted up the weeks necessary. Sorry. But it's easy enough to do.

For what it's worth you don't HAVE to follow any of this. The general rule of thumb is to decrease the daily/weekly dosage by 10%. Seems to work for most.

Some positivity and some possible good news:

Initial withdrawal (from Xanax/Alprozolam) usually only lasts for about three days. I cannot speak for any of the others. So if it's at all possible to push through those three days (and assuming there's no really bad withdrawal symptoms) she could be good to go sooner rather than later. Just saying. Sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees when you're in the situation and a little bit of encouragement can go a long way. When you're in withdrawal it's easy to fall into the psychological trap that this is never going to fucking end and I cannot handle it anymore and that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It helps to know that immediate withdrawal symptoms are finite in length and duration and that it's not a sentence to a few months worth of torture. Kinda like it's a short-term goal and incentive to push through the most uncomfortable bits.

 

[sorrowfulmoon]

Not in my experience, no, they are bound by the HIPAA (I think that’s how it’s spelled)

For me, I had health insurance, that’s how I afforded it.

also, it might make you feel better to know, I am a drug addict. I have mental problems, and I use drugs for those, and then also get high off the same meds. I would get prescribed more than I needed, and stockpile the pills. At one time I had about 20-30 bottle stuff full of pills, and I had the police(or maybe it was the ambulance people, I was high) bring me like 7 of the bottles. I never had any legal issues from years of doing that. I doubt you will from trying to get 60 something year old lady a benzo script

Also, my mother in law currently has a script for 0.25 mg of Xanax a day. I know that’s not a lot, I’m just telling you to confirm that benzos are still currently prescribed

Again i thank you for all this! Overall so maybe we call around through health insurance the clinics that are covered?

 

[dalpat077]

Omg this whole comment… so awesome. Thank you All i can say right now is exactly on everything!!!! Yea I really appreciate everyones responses here. This has been so helpful while going through this whole uncertainty process of what to do next. I would like to dialogue more. I’m going to look at the link you sent and a few more things. Yeah this situation first started when her doctor of two decades left the practice unknowingly or perhaps was fired And the new doctor who is cold as hell just began telling her he needed to take her and the other patients off of it and begin the “weening” process :/// last summer he brought it up and she got her therapist to advocate on her behalf on a conference call together could they push it back until her daughter turned 18 so she wouldn’t have to get sick or go away to a detox… as well as she takes care of my elderly grandmother. I could tell you exactly how he cut it down but December was the last script and that was still pushing it and she was feeling erratic taking it every other day bs nonsense. We’re discussing rn the effectiveness of what she has left breaking it in half or quarters etc. She’s been stretching this and she literally never feels well.

Some more little bit of advice:

Be careful with this cutting pills in half and into quarters. If at all possible try get equivalent lower dose strengths. I know I went through this same shit with Alprazolam i.e. trying to taper by cutting 1mg pills in half and then quarters. You never get it exactly right. And one is making the assumption that the active ingredient is evenly distributed within a single pill. Not an unreasonable assumption to make as they're not fake presses and shouldn't contain hot spots. But from experience and some of my own research: I don't buy this. It's not the exact science everybody assumes it to be. I have another post about his somewhere but in short: when they produce these large batches they don't test each and every pill and they work on a tolerance (usually 10% either side) (which if you think about it is the exact tapering amount that some employ to great effect). And not all pharmaceutical companies are created equal. Some farm out their production of this shit to other facilities and who may or may now be quite as on the ball or give a shit about quality.

Not trying to complicate matters. As I said: experience around here as opposed to anecdotal evidence and theories.

She's not alone though. I also got nailed like that i.e. on high doses of Alprazolam and my GP of over 30 years just decides one day to retire. So his replacement looks at the prescription and thinks "what the fuck" and it's now time to reduce the prescription without a care in the world. Fortunately for me: not the first time I've been down this road (also never abused this shit and always used as prescribed but that made no difference) so I at very least had the answers and was able to argue my points. Hence my trying to give you some ammunition that you can present to anybody that gives a shit and will listen.

 

[cdin]

Wow… thank you. This insight was very helpful in suggestions as well as validation as i was reading these out loud to her. She was really glad to hear and nodding in agreement lol. We are in the US, she’s never really drank, it used to make her tired or woozy but we’ll look into it as well as a hunt for another doctor. Are there even any in the US prescribing this anymore?? I’ve always seen movies and tv shows from the 90s or 2000s w people randomly carrying said scripts in their purse lending them to a friend like it was a cigarette i.e. xanax, valium, addivan, but it definitely seems very taboo now. We have considered the emergency room but afraid of the stigma and judgment over it and ofc rn there is much heightened anxiety… literally when she first was put on this medication at all, she didn’t know what a panic attack was and had went to the emergency room by ambulance and thought she was having a heart attack. They sent her over to psychiatric and thus began the noticing how people in the medical field change their tune and starting saying it’s all in your head. I’ll keep you updated

The FDA has changed their recommendations regarding old people. The recognize that long term benzo use causes dementia. It used to be they would just leave people on the medicine to not agitate them. Now that they have clear evidence the medicine is CAUSING the problem, they have federally advised that high-risk older patients and those showing any signs of dementia must be discontinued off of benzos and is chasing after doctors the same way they did opioids for a period of time.

The doctors perceive the liability between the high-risk patients and the high-intensity regulators and run away ( I have seen this happen to 3 older friends, my mother is one of them. so this hits home ).

I would: 1) take stock of what medication she has left and stockpiled, and see if there is enough to taper that. 2) contact other doctors and candidly explain the situation, that you would like to proceed with an Ashton manual taper on diazepam 3) find whatever dr agrees and help her through the transition. it won't be painless, but it will be much easier to come off of. 4) follow the Ashton manual and i would say start at 5%

until then - it is wildly irresponsible of her medical professionals to try and attribute seizure activity in a bzd withdrawal patient to "probably SSRIs" sure, it could be, or it could be the onset of a seizure that might do real brain damage or kill her. They know this is one of the most active symptoms of benzo withdrawal. I have been through both bzd and SSRI withdrawal, and whereas SSRIs feel like getting hit with a 9V all over, Benzo wd feels like getting your fingers jammed in a 110v socket. forever. if she begins having symptoms of this intensity(intense shaking, hallucinations, bp over 180/100, extreme muscle contraction, prolonged brain zaps/lost time/brain resets, auditory hallucinations) - she needs hospitalization, end of story. any place worth being at will have sympathy for her situation, probably want to switch her to librium or diazepam - or at the worst fill more xanax and try and get her a good referral.

Benzos cause progressive damage to the GABA receptor system. it's part of your brains electrical axis (GABA and glutamate) and controls muscle contraction/relaxation and actual mood activation/relaxation. the receptors are all over your entire body. if you can't control this, you essentially have epilepsy. People who abuse high dose research chemical benzos over long periods sometimes destroy their seizure threshold to the point they have to take phenobarbital or a similar heavy anti-seizure medicine round the clock after getting off. It's nothing to take lightly, and your mom is a trooper for dealing with what she has without too much complaint because I would be crawling the walls and demanding justice at that point.

Kindling (sedative–hypnotic withdrawal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

^^^ That link explains a lot. I am really so sorry they are doing this to her. I would look for a medical attorney in the area, and just ask for a consult and see if any of it merits action. they are usually willing to consult for free. sadly, it might be the case that there is only a case worth pressing if something worse ends up happening. I really hope that is not how this situation ends up. I am really sad our doctors are doing this to our old people when their advice is what put them here in the first place.

Any doctor advising a patient on titration should have had to experience that titration themselves.

 

[dalpat077]

The FDA has changed their recommendations regarding old people. The recognize that long term benzo use causes dementia. It used to be they would just leave people on the medicine to not agitate them. Now that they have clear evidence the medicine is CAUSING the problem, they have federally advised that high-risk older patients and those showing any signs of dementia must be discontinued off of benzos and is chasing after doctors the same way they did opioids for a period of time.

The doctors perceive the liability between the high-risk patients and the high-intensity regulators and run away ( I have seen this happen to 3 older friends, my mother is one of them. so this hits home ).

I would: 1) take stock of what medication she has left and stockpiled, and see if there is enough to taper that. 2) contact other doctors and candidly explain the situation, that you would like to proceed with an Ashton manual taper on diazepam 3) find whatever dr agrees and help her through the transition. it won't be painless, but it will be much easier to come off of. 4) follow the Ashton manual and i would say start at 5%

until then - it is wildly irresponsible of her medical professionals to try and attribute seizure activity in a bzd withdrawal patient to "probably SSRIs" sure, it could be, or it could be the onset of a seizure that might do real brain damage or kill her. They know this is one of the most active symptoms of benzo withdrawal. I have been through both bzd and SSRI withdrawal, and whereas SSRIs feel like getting hit with a 9V all over, Benzo wd feels like getting your fingers jammed in a 110v socket. forever. if she begins having symptoms of this intensity(intense shaking, hallucinations, bp over 180/100, extreme muscle contraction, prolonged brain zaps/lost time/brain resets, auditory hallucinations) - she needs hospitalization, end of story. any place worth being at will have sympathy for her situation, probably want to switch her to librium or diazepam - or at the worst fill more xanax and try and get her a good referral.

Benzos cause progressive damage to the GABA receptor system. it's part of your brains electrical axis (GABA and glutamate) and controls muscle contraction/relaxation and actual mood activation/relaxation. the receptors are all over your entire body. if you can't control this, you essentially have epilepsy. People who abuse high dose research chemical benzos over long periods sometimes destroy their seizure threshold to the point they have to take phenobarbital or a similar heavy anti-seizure medicine round the clock after getting off. It's nothing to take lightly, and your mom is a trooper for dealing with what she has without too much complaint because I would be crawling the walls and demanding justice at that point.

Kindling (sedative–hypnotic withdrawal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

^^^ That link explains a lot. I am really so sorry they are doing this to her. I would look for a medical attorney in the area, and just ask for a consult and see if any of it merits action. they are usually willing to consult for free. sadly, it might be the case that there is only a case worth pressing if something worse ends up happening. I really hope that is not the case I am really sad our doctors are doing this to our old people, when they put them there in the first place. Any doctor advising a patient on titration should have had to experience that titration themselves.

Fantastic post. Certainly nothing to add.

 

[cdin]

Some more little bit of advice:

Be careful with this cutting pills in half and into quarters. If at all possible try get equivalent lower dose strengths. I know I went through this same shit with Alprazolam i.e. trying to taper by cutting 1mg pills in half and then quarters. You never get it exactly right. And one is making the assumption that the active ingredient is evenly distributed within a single pill. Not an unreasonable assumption to make as they're not fake presses and shouldn't contain hot spots. But from experience and some of my own research: I don't buy this. It's not the exact science everybody assumes it to be. I have another post about his somewhere but in short: when they produce these large batches they don't test each and every pill and they work on a tolerance (usually 10% either side) (which if you think about it is the exact tapering amount that some employ to great effect). And not all pharmaceutical companies are created equal. Some farm out their production of this shit to other facilities and who may or may now be quite as on the ball or give a shit about quality.

Not trying to complicate matters. As I said: experience around here as opposed to anecdotal evidence and theories.

She's not alone though. I also got nailed like that i.e. on high doses of Alprazolam and my GP of over 30 years just decides one day to retire. So his replacement looks at the prescription and thinks "what the fuck" and it's now time to reduce the prescription without a care in the world. Fortunately for me: not the first time I've been down this road (also never abused this shit and always used as prescribed but that made no difference) so I at very least had the answers and was able to argue my points. Hence my trying to give you some ammunition that you can present to anybody that gives a shit and will listen.

for this reason, you might want to help her find whatever her med is soluble in (probably Propylene glycol) and divide that up as a liquid. volumetric measuring is extremely precise, you can do it just with marked pipettes and there is no worry about hotspots. if the pharm company got it in the pill, it will be in the solution.

 

[polarthedog]

Omg this whole comment… so awesome. Thank you All i can say right now is exactly on everything!!!! Yea I really appreciate everyones responses here. This has been so helpful while going through this whole uncertainty process of what to do next. I would like to dialogue more. I’m going to look at the link you sent and a few more things. Yeah this situation first started when her doctor of two decades left the practice unknowingly or perhaps was fired And the new doctor who is cold as hell just began telling her he needed to take her and the other patients off of it and begin the “weening” process :/// last summer he brought it up and she got her therapist to advocate on her behalf on a conference call together could they push it back until her daughter turned 18 so she wouldn’t have to get sick or go away to a detox… as well as she takes care of my elderly grandmother. I could tell you exactly how he cut it down but December was the last script and that was still pushing it and she was feeling

Okay cool, everything you share means a lot! I used to go to and discuss with my uncle who was a long time user of many things and would have very mature conversations regarding everything but he passed away a couple years ago which has made getting through this even harder. He would be my go to for all these things and why i am so pro harm reduction and understanding regarding users, mental illness, anxieties. I’d even learned how to bring him back to life lol, not funny but yanno. I wasn’t there when he passed and don’t know what or who caused it but ya get the drift.. after her brother dying there’s really been no one else to talk to so openly regarding my mom’s addiction or anxiety disorder or anything of the like. Reading this to myself I realize we really need a better support system in our lives. My mother’s been trying to maintain a level of discretion till i turned 18 so she felt i was not in danger of being taken away or something.

I’m sorry to hear about your uncle. Maybe you should stick around, blue light has been an invaluable support system for me

does she use any downers on the side? Cause uf she’s an opiate user or something already, increasing her dosage until she can get benzos would probably help