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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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a) you aren't a doctor, so i'm not sure what you think qualifies you to advise anyone on any are of medicine
b) i spent 7 hours in the suspected covid part of my local a&e last week (for hayfever ffs, but all respiratory distress is suspect now) so i got to pay much attention, it was rammed, and there were a lot of very ill people- and this was just the subset not ill enough to be admitted to the hospital proper. but its not really practical, or advisable, to get yourself in such a mess you go in for yourself. given most people on here who don't want to get a covid vaccine also don't believe related published data (otherwise they would get the vaccine), how do you propose people even do that?

did you miss me?!?!?

a) no im not....im logical and practical Bob - do you know what they used to call me?

and what do you know again, scientist's assistant? go clean my petri dishes 🤓

b) how do i propose ppl do what?

c) a little bit

=D
 
There's another Victorian lockdown starting at midnight tonight.

This is our fifth lockdown.

I'm losing my shit now. I can't keep doing this. I seriously can't keep fucking doing it. My God, when is this going to end?!?

My life was hard before this shit. It's easy for some people, I'm sure. It's not fucking easy for me.

I hate this fucking virus more than I hate any living thing that has ever existed on this planet.

I've already had a long day at work. I got home, exhausted as usual. I'm on my third beer, rolling my second joint. Now, I have to go and drive around and do a bunch of shit before midnight again?

Fuck this shit.
God damn it.

At least I'm an essential worker, so I have a permit and I still get to go to work. That is the only cherry on this shit pie.

The Australian government has failed us.

Every outbreak is their fault.

When we take people in from "red zones" we tell them to isolate, then they don't and all hell breaks loose. People lose their jobs. People die.

We need to fucking QUARANTINE people.

Every single outbreak in this country has been traced back to governmental negligence. Are they all fucking morons? When are they going to learn?

We should have dystopian underground facilities with hazmat suits and isolation cells. Fuck the honour system.

Our continent is a fucking island. We share borders with zero countries. How many times have we eradicated this virus? Why in the living fuck do we keep letting it back in?

God damn these mother fucking idiots.

You can only push a reasonable person so far before they say fuck it.

What am I supposed to do here?

Do I have a voice?

Are we all slaves?

FUCK THIS SHIT.
 
a) no im not....im logical and practical Bob - do you know what they used to call me?
no but please do tell!!
and what do you know again, scientist's assistant? go clean my petri dishes 🤓
lol- i'm no ones assistant mate, am currently the only person doing my job in my entire company which i'm pretty sure makes me head of bioinformatics. our lab, who i support with analytics, has done a lot of work on covid so i suspect i know more than you. its part of my job to understand how it is evolving. i'm not a doctor but i know enough about medical ethics to know that you do not give medical advice unless you are a doctor and are familiar with the people you're advising's history.
b) how do i propose ppl do what?
you said people should pay attention to their local hospitals- i shared my recent experience of having been in the bit of a&e where suspect covid patients are put, but pointed out that this isn't a practical way of finding out what is going on in your local hospital. given that people who don't already have their vaccines despite being eligible don't believe covd related data (otherwise they'd have their vaccine) i don't think just looking at stats of their local hospitals would sway them. so i asked how, in practise, you'd imagine your advice to be taken?
c) a little bit

=D
back atcha!

There's another Victorian lockdown starting at midnight tonight.

This is our fifth lockdown.

I'm losing my shit now. I can't keep doing this. I seriously can't keep fucking doing it. My God, when is this going to end?!?
i really feel for you. where i was living til recently we were in some form of lockdown for the best part of a year. its why i started drinking, just having nothing, ever, to do.

When we take people in from "red zones" we tell them to isolate, then they don't and all hell breaks loose. People lose their jobs. People die.
yeah this happened in the UK too and i'm still livid.
 
I can understand a conspiracy with maybe a few countries but the entire world.

I think Xorkoth is right.

we are wasting our time as truly logic is not there.
 
@chinup

You and I aren't so different.
Heads and tails.
Mate, there’s no words I feel I could personally offer you and I really don’t want to annoy you at such an intensely stressful emotional time by continuing to stand as opposition.

But I do care man I really do, I promise you that.

I’m going to Peterborough now I will get a full, comprehensive pinpoint scan and readout of exactly which pathogens I have exactly where, level, complications etc.

I’ll know for sure if it was respiratory Covid I’ve literally quashed from 95% maxed up level, to about 10% and holding easily, whit my treatments nobody wishes to consider are legit. Not digging there, just natural expression.

I’m living an insanely intense mental, emotional and psychological existence myself.

Benzo WD I’m forcing upon myself has roofed my anxiety and depression, sense of bleakness.

I’ve done some really extraordinary healing and detox this year. I look better, feel cleaner, but I need rest and recovery now, I’m as genuinely physically exhausted as my body has ever been, no restful sleep, so much stress and anxiety hard to rest.

The next step. Gotta get some bloody rest, not sleep just being at rest, body and mind, not been once for an eon now.

Right, gotta prep a big jar of Kava to take, it really keeps me together just each day. Had coffee, CBD and weed edibles.

I will report the diagnosis. I did discover how to use a different setup up for my electricity treatments yesterday. It could be revolutionary going forwards. I missed a trick until now.
 
no but please do tell!!

lol- i'm no ones assistant mate, am currently the only person doing my job in my entire company which i'm pretty sure makes me head of bioinformatics. our lab, who i support with analytics, has done a lot of work on covid so i suspect i know more than you. its part of my job to understand how it is evolving. i'm not a doctor but i know enough about medical ethics to know that you do not give medical advice unless you are a doctor and are familiar with the people you're advising's history.

you said people should pay attention to their local hospitals- i shared my recent experience of having been in the bit of a&e where suspect covid patients are put, but pointed out that this isn't a practical way of finding out what is going on in your local hospital. given that people who don't already have their vaccines despite being eligible don't believe covd related data (otherwise they'd have their vaccine) i don't think just looking at stats of their local hospitals would sway them. so i asked how, in practise, you'd imagine your advice to be taken?


im not giving advice....ya know what my advice is? do whatever you want....i don't really care....but i was giving an example of a way to go about it.....if you feel like getting shots even tho there's nothing going on in your area, go right ahead....but if you're feeling hesitant, that might be one way to go about it - just pay attention to what's going on where you live on a more local level...make your call from there

in my county, there's currently a 3.2% positivity rate over the last 7 days and 41.1 per 100,000 ppl rate over the last 14 days

that's pretty low....and it says we have about 60% that have initiated vaccination for ages 12 and up....sounds like they're counting ppl who only got 1 shot, so if that's the case, then it's most likely lower than 60%

now - the last time we had a rate that was about the same that we have now, was back on October 20th, 2020 - it was 43 per 100k then, and before that, on Sept. 20th it was down to 32 per 100k...both times pre-dating vaccines

so now ya got everybody freaking out, because cases are going up again! omg! right? even tho we can see that it's not really that bad overall

i saw a headline on cnn's website yesterday that stated "the choice is yours - be vaccinated or be infected" in big ol bold letters....i laughed....because it's just not true - and most ppl understand that - and it makes me feel like it's intentional - to cause a divide......and everybody's just fortifying their own position...

but anyway

so you're trying to tell me that you have somebody who washes your petri dishes now


oh ok

😏
 
@chinup

You and I aren't so different.
Heads and tails.
agreed. i argue with you guys because i enjoy the debate and never mean anything personally. well unless i say you're an idiot. but i try not to do that even if i think it (which i don't! i don't even think @Mr. Krinkle is one!) cos its not conducive to argument.

anyone who care enough about one subject to invest as much time in one thread as we and other posters have probably has a lot in common even if we're diametrically opposed most of the time.

@Mr. Krinkle - here people are freaking out cos cases are going up again too. i think the issue is that a lot of people are only partially vaccinated at present (myself included) and there is speculation that that could lead to even worse variants arising, which i can see the logic of but i don't know enough about the immune system to assess further. i'm mostly interpreting it as good news though. the cases curve keeps going up but deaths aren't tracking- the vaccines are working!
 
Good lord another US gov payment possibly going out. LOL there are so many fkn jobs in my area it’s tragic to even think about sending more money the free loaders way. Why am I ending up paying for you to deal with your spawn when I have been out working the entire time.. my take is fantasy dream land should be over.. BS US government sponsored freeloading should be stopped. Get your vaccinations or don’t and that’s your decision and your consequences but get back to work you lazy fucks!!! That and as a long time libertarian that often voted democrat you democrats pretty much almost lost me.
 
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U.S. Coronavirus cases up nearly 70 percent*

by Yasmeen Abutaleb and Frances Stead Sellers | New York Times | 16 Jul 2021

Federal health officials sounded an alarm Friday about a surge in U.S. coronavirus infections fueled by the twin threats posed by the highly transmissible delta variant and a stagnation in efforts to vaccinate as many Americans as possible.

During a White House briefing, Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the seven-day average of coronavirus infections soared nearly 70 percent in just one week, to about 26,300 cases a day. The seven-day average for hospitalizations has increased, too, climbing about 36 percent from the previous seven-day period, she said.

‘This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated,’ CDC director says

“There is a clear message that is coming through: This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated,” Walensky said. “We are seeing outbreaks of cases in parts of the country that have low vaccination coverage because unvaccinated people are at risk, and communities that are fully vaccinated are generally faring well.”

Data and maps illustrated the hastening pace of cases — and the disproportionate burden borne by some states. Florida emerged as a national hot spot, accounting for 1 in 5 cases in the past week. Four states were responsible for more than 40 percent of cases in the past week, health officials said. And 10 percent of counties have moved into “high transmission risk.”

The response in some corners of the nation was swift. In Los Angeles County, an indoor mask mandate — applying to everyone, vaccinated or not — was reimposed. In Abilene, Kan., the Dwight D. Eisenhower Presidential Library and Museum was shuttered because of an increase in covid-19 cases.

Health officials repeatedly stressed the outsize toll covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, is taking on unvaccinated people and communities.

More than 97 percent of hospitalizations are among those who are unvaccinated, Walensky said, and almost all covid-19 deaths — which climbed 26 percent in the past week — are among people who have not received a shot.

“Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths,” said Jeff Zients, the White House coronavirus coordinator. “Each covid-19 death is tragic, and those happening now are even more tragic because they are preventable.”

On Friday, the Association of American Medical Colleges recommended all of its member institutions require vaccinations for employees.

“We are aware of the sensitive nature of this recommendation and understand that it must be made on an institution-by-institution basis, subject to legally required exceptions and consistent with state law,” David J. Skorton, the association’s president and CEO, said in a statement. “However, for the safety of our patients, communities, health care personnel, faculty, and students, we encourage our members to require vaccinations for employees while working with local public health officials as appropriate.”

The delta variant has become the dominant strain worldwide and is responsible for the majority of U.S. cases, said Anthony S. Fauci, President Biden’s chief medical adviser and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "In some parts of the United States," Fauci said, "the delta variant is responsible for more than 70 percent of cases."

Fauci said young people — who have been particularly hesitant about getting vaccinated — are being hospitalized to a greater extent than they were earlier in the pandemic, in large part because most older Americans are inoculated.

Surgeon General Vivek Murthy discussed Friday how misinformation about vaccines and the coronavirus more broadly has hampered the nation’s efforts to get vaccine-hesitant Americans inoculated. He called on social media platforms, news organizations and individual Americans to “call this activity out” and help properly inform the public.

“During this pandemic, health misinformation has led people to resist wearing masks and high-risk settings to turn down proven treatments, in some cases to turn to unproven treatments and to choose not to get vaccinated,” Murthy said. “All of this has led to avoidable illnesses and deaths. Simply put, health misinformation has cost us lives.”

In another indication of the ever-evolving pandemic, Zients said the administration would be prepared to administer booster shots to some Americans if the science demonstrates they are beneficial, but health officials stressed that Americans at this time do not need a booster. A CDC advisory panel is scheduled next week to discuss whether patients with fragile immunity should receive an additional vaccine dose. People who are immunocompromised do not mount the same immune response as healthy individuals in response to the vaccine.

Florida, where only about 47 percent of the population is fully vaccinated, ranks 26th among the states in vaccinations, according to the CDC’s vaccine tracker. The slow vaccine rollout, combined with a reduction in people wearing masks, made the large and populous state “a ripe ground for the emergence of the delta variant,” said John Brownstein, chief innovation officer at Boston Children’s Hospital.

“The concern for the South is the summer months bring people indoors because of the heat,” Brownstein said.

Mary Jo Trepka, an infectious-disease expert at the Robert Stempel College of Public Health and Social Work at Florida International University, has been tracking the rise in case numbers from week to week and also seeing an increase in the percentage of people testing positive. The current surge, she said, feels uncomfortably familiar.

“It’s almost the same timeline as last year,” Trepka said. She’s hoping it won’t prove as steep.

Figures from Florida’s health department show that in the past month, the number of cases is four times higher, reaching more than 45,000 in the most recent week.

A week ago, the rate of cases in Miami-Dade County was 150 per 100,000 people, or five times the rate of the United States. What’s most worrisome, Trepka said, is the stalling vaccination rate.

The surge in infections is being reflected in an increase in hospitalizations, according to Hany Atallah, chief medical officer at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami. The immediate challenge at the sprawling hospital is to figure out bed space and the availability of negative pressure rooms.

In the last 24 hours, there have been about 20 to 25 new covid admissions, Atallah said, with the greatest increase in patients between the ages of 30 and 50. Atallah said most of the patients being admitted have not been vaccinated. But in a few instances, people who were vaccinated but are immunocompromised became sick enough to warrant hospital care.

Atallah urged people to maintain mask-wearing and social distancing, and to surmount lingering hesitancy about getting a shot.

“It’s not too late to get the vaccine,” Atallah said.

Vaccination rates are particularly low in some rural counties in northern and southern parts of Florida and in the Panhandle, according to Cindy Prins, an epidemiologist at the College of Public Health and Health Professions at the University of Florida. Prins also noted that people are acting as if they are done with the pandemic. “There is a feeling of being open,” Prins said, particularly following the Fourth of July.

“It doesn’t have to be,” Prins said of the new surge. “If people would get vaccinated, we wouldn’t be seeing these numbers.”

*From the article here :
 
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It's truly tragic that people are dying because they didn't get vaccinated. However, I also can understand why someone would be hesitant to get it. The fact is that it's very new, and it hasn't been studied as much as other vaccinations yet. It's understandable that this would put a lot of people off. The circumstances of how everything shut down so swiftly, people lost their jobs, and this thing totally upended society makes it understandable that some people would think it's all a big conspiracy. In fact, I do wonder if there may have been a certain amount of manipulation/brainwashing going on. However, more than one thing can be true. People really are dying from it and have been all along during this.

Nowadays, it has become a preventable disease, but I also don't think that those in power should be too pushy about trying to get people to get vaccinated. Being pushy like that is just going to make the refusers more adamant that the outreach programs are a government overreach, which is going to make them even more suspicious and leery of getting it. Also, the fact that it's being so extensively covered is keeping some people in the same state they were in during 2020, either fearing the virus immensely or on the other side of the fence (e.g. that it's a hoax, overblown, not getting vaccinated, etc.). If you just let the issue drop, new things will come up, people will forget about the politicization of the virus, and more people will get vaccinated and thus immune to it.

The fact is that it's very limited in the extent that it could take off again. Very few vaccinated people are getting it, let alone becoming severely or critically ill. Once the refusers all end up getting it, they'll have a substantial degree of immunity as well. Thus, the whole thing will just kind of fizzle out without ever really fully going away. It's very much fading into the background, but it kind of seems like some media channels and public health experts don't entirely want that. I think that the less it's talked about on the news, the better. Then, people will simply turn to their doctors for advice, and they're naturally going to trust them a lot more than the media or a government agency. So, they'll be more likely to change their minds and decide to get vaccinated. Also, there are very real societal dangers associated with a constant state of fear.
 
I got vaccinated months ago. I understand people have fears and reservations about the getting vaccinated. Sure there may be eventual negative consequences, but to this point I have had none except a pretty minor immune reaction to the second dose which I took as it’s working. Personally Im loving that life is firing back up.. going to be boogieing at my bluegrass fest next month❤️. We are all responsible for our own decisions.. il own my decision to vaccinate up and those that chose not to also need to own their decision.
 
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It's truly tragic that people are dying because they didn't get vaccinated. However, I also can understand why someone would be hesitant to get it. The fact is that it's very new, and it hasn't been studied as much as other vaccinations yet. It's understandable that this would put a lot of people off. The circumstances of how everything shut down so swiftly, people lost their jobs, and this thing totally upended society makes it understandable that some people would think it's all a big conspiracy. In fact, I do wonder if there may have been a certain amount of manipulation/brainwashing going on. However, more than one thing can be true. People really are dying from it and have been all along during this.

Nowadays, it has become a preventable disease, but I also don't think that those in power should be too pushy about trying to get people to get vaccinated. Being pushy like that is just going to make the refusers more adamant that the outreach programs are a government overreach, which is going to make them even more suspicious and leery of getting it. Also, the fact that it's being so extensively covered is keeping some people in the same state they were in during 2020, either fearing the virus immensely or on the other side of the fence (e.g. that it's a hoax, overblown, not getting vaccinated, etc.). If you just let the issue drop, new things will come up, people will forget about the politicization of the virus, and more people will get vaccinated and thus immune to it.

The fact is that it's very limited in the extent that it could take off again. Very few vaccinated people are getting it, let alone becoming severely or critically ill. Once the refusers all end up getting it, they'll have a substantial degree of immunity as well. Thus, the whole thing will just kind of fizzle out without ever really fully going away. It's very much fading into the background, but it kind of seems like some media channels and public health experts don't entirely want that. I think that the less it's talked about on the news, the better. Then, people will simply turn to their doctors for advice, and they're naturally going to trust them a lot more than the media or a government agency. So, they'll be more likely to change their minds and decide to get vaccinated. Also, there are very real societal dangers associated with a constant state of fear.

I agree with you by and large, but I will say that to me, the "government overreach" angle is pretty shaky ground. Until people are forced to get it, which will not happen in America, all it is is a government trying to convince people to get a vaccine that will continue to prevent deaths. I mean even if someone comes to your door and tries to give you a pamphlet or whatever, you can still refuse. yet people act like their freedoms are being taken away. Wake up, you can still refuse and no one is making you do it.

If 70% of the population hadn't gotten vaccinated, we'd still be shut down. And speaking of shutting down, we never really did. No one was fining you or throwing you in jail for not staying home or wearing a mask, you were free to refuse to do so. Lots of places in the world are doing that. Americans should stop crying about being oppressed. No one has forced you to do a thing, the whole time you've been free to choose. It's a false fear narrative you're being fed to get you up in arms so you can be controlled into opposing the Democrats. Which is ironic since what you're screaming about is the fear of being controlled.

If they start forcibly injecting people, I'll scream with you. Until then, you're overreacting in exactly the way they want you to.

(obviously I'm not saying this to you, LandsUnknown, I was just inspired by your post)
 
I agree with you by and large, but I will say that to me, the "government overreach" angle is pretty shaky ground. Until people are forced to get it, which will not happen in America, all it is is a government trying to convince people to get a vaccine that will continue to prevent deaths.

Not in the case of people who stand to lose their jobs or the ability to attend their school.


I mean even if someone comes to your door and tries to give you a pamphlet or whatever, you can still refuse. yet people act like their freedoms are being taken away. Wake up, you can still refuse and no one is making you do it.

If 70% of the population hadn't gotten vaccinated, we'd still be shut down. And speaking of shutting down, we never really did. No one was fining you or throwing you in jail for not staying home or wearing a mask, you were free to refuse to do so.


Lots of places in the world are doing that. Americans should stop crying about being oppressed. No one has forced you to do a thing, the whole time you've been free to choose. It's a false fear narrative you're being fed to get you up in arms so you can be controlled into opposing the Democrats. Which is ironic since what you're screaming about is the fear of being controlled.

If they start forcibly injecting people, I'll scream with you. Until then, you're overreacting in exactly the way they want you to.

(obviously I'm not saying this to you, LandsUnknown, I was just inspired by your post)

So all the people forced to close their businesses (many to never reopen) and fined or thrown in jail if they refused to comply weren't forced to do a thing? It's funny how you talk about irony and false narratives, while posting a false narrative.
 
I meant forced to get vaccinated, I shouldn't have said forced to do a thing. Businesses suffered for sure, as did employment and education, I wasn't trying to say that didn't happen. The impact has been huge and that sucks for a lot of people. I hadn't heard about anyone being fined or arrested for not wearing a mask, apparently there has been one in Nashville now but do you know anyone who got fined or arrested? I don't. No one has forced you to be vaccinated. if a private business or organization wants to require a mask or vaccine to work there or go there, well that's the price of living in a free country. You can't force them to behave in a certain way just as you can't hold people down and shoot them with a vaccine. If a business thinks it will make their customers unsafe if their employee isn't vaccinated, they have the right to make that call, even if you disagree with their assessment. We have retained much more freedom than most of the rest of the world and I think Americans should recognize that. There are a lot of places where you're not allowed to leave the house without special permission and you go to jail for breaking that.

As for shut downs, it fucking sucked, and it hurt a lot of people. But should we have done nothing? It's a real virus and it really killed a lot of people and gave a lot of people serious long-term negative health effects. What should we have done?
 
I meant forced to get vaccinated, I shouldn't have said forced to do a thing. Businesses suffered for sure, as did employment and education, I wasn't trying to say that didn't happen. The impact has been huge and that sucks for a lot of people. I hadn't heard about anyone being fined or arrested for not wearing a mask, apparently there has been one in Nashville now but do you know anyone who got fined or arrested? I don't. No one has forced you to be vaccinated. if a private business or organization wants to require a mask or vaccine to work there or go there, well that's the price of living in a free country.

Ok first and foremost I was just pointing out the fact that what you posted was false. It seems like now you're trying to pivot to claiming private businesses have the right to require masks. However, I never commented on that. The government in my state forced businesses, under threat of fines and citations to require masks. That is government action and not a decision of a private business. Would some businesses have chosen to require masks anyway? Sure, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making.

We have retained much more freedom than most of the rest of the world and I think Americans should recognize that. There are a lot of places where you're not allowed to leave the house without special permission and you go to jail for breaking that.

I do recognize that and I am thankful to be American. I think what governments around the world have done during this pandemic is nothing less than a crime against humanity.


As for shut downs, it fucking sucked, and it hurt a lot of people. But should we have done nothing? It's a real virus and it really killed a lot of people and gave a lot of people serious long-term negative health effects. What should we have done?

As for what we should have done, I am not an expert and since lots of competing values are involved in that question there is room for reasonable disagreement so I can only give my opinion. I am skeptical of lockdowns, they seem far less effective than advertised to me and very harmful on many levels. Masks could have been recommended but optional, rather than pitting people against each other over them.

I have to go run some errands now so I don't have the time to give a more fleshed out response but I will post a couple links to support my opinion:



There are more studies I'd like to include but I don't have the time to find them now, basically though the jist of what I want to show is that if you look at severity of lockdown measures vs deaths across many different states/counties you find very little association. This is completely the opposite of what we were told would happen. We were told that lockdowns were absolutely necessary because without them millions more people would die and we were lied to and manipulated every step of the way by politicians and public health experts. If what they told us had been true, we should see an absolutely massive difference in deaths between those places which locked down hard and those places which did not. It's not there. I also happen to find the fear propaganda tactics governments used abhorrent, and I am sure it has done psychological damage to many people as I see kids as young as 10 riding their bikes alone around the neighborhood wearing a mask to this day and fully vaccinated adults still wearing two masks. I believe masks are not healthy, btw.

As for what we should have done, I lean more toward a strategy of focused protection where those who were most vulnerable were advised to isolate while young. Giving unemployment to healthy 24 year old man who is more than willing to take the risk, while a 65 year old women has to continue working because she is an "essential worker" struck me as madness.
 
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