Lysergamides LSD first timer. Questions and suggestions

[Jabberwocky]

My attorney advises me that

(A) people should not be making controversial, broad, generalised, claims about drugs that cannot be substantiated by some kind of research.

(B) people should respect that each individual’s subjective experience of a drug is unique and reports of that subjective experience should be respected and never invalidated.

As for the duration of acid. I had bad trips in my 20’s where the distortion of reality and sensemaking stopped at about 12 hours but the inability to sleep and the psychological distress lasted another 12.

These days, a 5 blotter trip usually incapacitates me through body load and depersonalisation for 3 hours. Extreme sensory distortion lasts another 6-8. A general sense of being discombobulated and not quite connected to the world another 6. So I’d count duration as max 17 hours, though it varies from trip to trip.

I recently noticed that taking ketamine and meth after the first 8 or 9 hours extends the sense of tripping balls for several more hours, particularly if you k-hole (which takes a lot less k of you have acid in you). However, it reduces hallucinations (I think that’s the meth effect).

 

[AutoTripper]

My attorney advises me that

(A) people should not be making controversial, broad, generalised, claims about drugs that cannot be substantiated by some kind of research.

(B) people should respect that each individual’s subjective experience of a drug is unique and reports of that subjective experience should be respected and never invalidated.

As for the duration of acid. I had bad trips in my 20’s where the distortion of reality and sensemaking stopped at about 12 hours but the inability to sleep and the psychological distress lasted another 12.

These days, a 5 blotter trip usually incapacitates me through body load and depersonalisation for 3 hours. Extreme sensory distortion lasts another 6-8. A general sense of being discombobulated and not quite connected to the world another 6. So I’d count duration as max 17 hours, though it varies from trip to trip.

I recently noticed that taking ketamine and meth after the first 8 or 9 hours extends the sense of tripping balls for several more hours, particularly if you k-hole (which takes a lot less k of you have acid in you). However, it reduces hallucinations (I think that’s the meth effect).

I’ve not seen you speak much of cannabis use I don’t think. If I tripped no cannabis at all, especially long running edibles and vapor top ups, I might not notice the trip intensity for as long, but that’s been a part of it for me forever I’m used to it that way.

The week after, also always, using weed highlights to my consciousness the acid reverberating and integrating.

The effect of the cannabis is very different for a certain timeframe after a trip, like 5-7 days.

So as far as I view it, in some way, the LSD is still active but it takes the cannabis to loosen the perception filters again to see it until it’s more fully worked out of the system and consciousness.

Weed keeps me aware of the trip for a lot longer, personally.

 

[burn out]

This doesn’t count as you fact-checking anything since you need to present something like a link to another site, one established as some kind of reference authority on information like this.

Hahaha, I would question any acid that lasted that long as not being acid but rather a psychedelic amphetamine or something like Bromo-Dragonfly.

It’s interesting no one has any response for me when I pointed out the duration of LSD according to psychonautwiki.org is “8-12 hours”. Why aren’t you arguing with the site administrators over this if it’s not true?

@AutoTripper So you’re saying you like to take one whole milligram of LSD? Lol, okay… is this without any tolerance? Or is this after you’ve built tolerance? Be honest now…

I didn't realize this turned into such a debate but I just thought I'd say I take any drug duration listing with a grain of salt because I've had many experiences that last longer than the listed durations (not just with psychedelics but other classes of drugs as well) and I also understand the fact that there is big gray/subjective area in terms of when a trip actually "ends".

For instance let's take these claims of the 8-12 hour duration. Then let's assume you give a very large dose of LSD to an elderly couple that have never taken any drugs before. Now let's assume twenty hours after dosing they are still feeling wired, can't sleep, still thinking in a very altered way compared to normal, and still experiencing visual distortions.

The elderly couple say you mislead them when you told them it would only last 8-12 hours. Even though they are not tripping as hard as they were in the first 8-12 hours, they are still so far from normal that there is no way they consider that duration to be accurate.

Now let's assume you give the same dose to some drugged out hippies. After twenty hours they also aren't 100% back to normal but they are used to tripping so it's not as big a deal for them. They no longer really consider themselves high and just consider this to be part of the come down.

You see how subjective it is? A trip has no official end point. It just gradually fades out and it's really up to the individual to decide how long it lasted.

When it is said LSD lasts 8-12 hours, I think that's a reasonable estimate for the duration of the primary effects on average. If an LSD information website listed LSD as having a duration of 8-12 hours I wouldn't argue with them. What I would argue with is someone claiming that means it can't last longer than 8-12 hours.

 

[Ismene2]

All I would say is "walk a mile in someone elses shoes" before you say for certain how long a trip lasts - that way you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

Lsd has always been 6-8 hours for me - i call the 16 hours after that the "hangover" not the trip. You can be vomiting for 12 hours after you were drunk - but that doesnt mean you are drunk for 24 hours.

Lsd gets eliminated from the body at a certain rate just like alcohol does.

 

[DrumTripper]

It’s bad intel

Sounds like a narc!
Just give up, buddy.
No one said 25ug was strong, no one said the effects are full-on for long durations - rather that some of us can feel “altered” for longer than 12 hours.
And by the way, if Wiki is your scholarly source, well . . . have fun with the cool stories!
And if anything, by sharing our lived experiences, a greenhorn can better judge potential after effects, or TOTAL altered duration.
It’s a harm reduction forum, not a pissing contest.

 

[DrumTripper]

And that “certain rate” is anything but certain across all population.
I personally LOVE the trip after 8 hours - it becomes magical and calm, but certainly I’m in that state for another 8 or more hours, so your claims don’t fit my experience of forty years of lsd use (much of it coming directly from NS).

 

[AutoTripper]

No one said 25ug was strong

Hi man. I kind of did. I actually caused this fiasco. I should have thought more carefully how I phrased it.

Now, I’ll eat a humongous dose of edible cannabis and not brush a brow. I use it in relative moderation, but it’s not something I will ever feel the slightest anxiety about, pre-dosing or any point.

However strong the effect.

I think more than twice these days before dropping a mere 25 ug for an energetic pick up and recreational amusement, and it always adds so much on top of the cannabis and kava.

But even 25 ug can be enduring and challenging at times. It’s not the walk in the park that any level of stonedness is for me personally.

Like, 25 ug is NOT a STRONG trip. Obviously, in one semantical sense. But it has quite a strong effect on me, the impact, it’s still very unpredictable how I will feel and experience it. Many times I almost have regretted it even as I have done much higher doses, when it’s clear I’m not really up for it once effects increase.

That’s what I meant originally.

I never would encourage first time macro trippers looking for a decent taste of LSD to take 25 ug. That is for more experienced longer term users I feel to appreciate better.

Most people are very cautious with dosage advice for newcomers to LSD, but there is a camp I side with who would actually encourage up to 150 ug, or 125 really, and try to dissuade fear and install confidence.

Set and setting are always vital. But I try also to discourage fear.

150 is not massive at all. It’s half an OG dot. My mum took acid 8 times in 70’s, half microdots every time. She and others back then saw that as a full LSD experience and microdots were rarely above 300 ug. A full on experience for many, a good taste but not too intense for most.

2 years ago, my mum took 7.5 ug from a 100 ug clearnet tab in Vodka and it had a bigger impact on her than the 70’s microdot trips.

She expected no effects. Her whole day was written off. She didn’t like it, but she felt like a new woman afterwards and was glad she did it.

That was only 7.5 ug. She wouldn’t dare to go higher based on that experience.

I was trying to get her to drop a whole tab lol. I’m good around people tripping. I know how I feel when I am and how I like the environment to give me space, all the time in the world and no pressure, but that’s never going to happen anyway.

So I don’t want to argue or aggress (useful word) on the matter. It did distress me a lot yesterday as it did Uno, and I’m not going to get anywhere with massive benzo addiction if I can’t manage my stress levels and I hate causing distress in others.

@DrumTripper I will always give you a like whenever I see you post. I only haven’t above because I’m hoping to diffuse the heat a bit here, and not fuel any more frustration or emotion.

Right….I’ve got me a ditch to climb out of, again, and a life to sort out.

1st step, allergies to manage. Then I am free to get high and Merry on kava and edibles and see how to line myself up for an easier day tomorrow.

Must reduce benzo intake though primarily but I’m finding it so damn hard without losing my witts and keeping panic locked up.

 

[DrumTripper]

8-12. Massive in-built variability.
Factor that into your thinking.
You’re no longer clandestine, chemist!

 

[DrumTripper]

To cap it from my perspective, we feel that 1) some circumstances can lead to extended trips.
2) some doses, while small, can, in at least some subjects, present with surprising intensity. This may be due to the mind referencing priori trip memory and mixing it into a current trip, or some of us suffer some perception quirks.

Nichols, I think, is working on a super-attaching lsd which can perma-dock into its receptor.
That’d be a major bummer if having a nasty trip!

For me, I’m just not normal until I’ve slept the trip off. I’m still seeing walls breathe the next day and patterns move, etc.
If those effects don’t count, then I agree that 12 hours is the max. But those effects are most enjoyable to me, especially after 8 hours.
Hmmmph

 

[AutoTripper]

To cap it from my perspective, we feel that 1) some circumstances can lead to extended trips.
2) some doses, while small, can, in at least some subjects, present with surprising intensity. This may be due to the mind referencing priori trip memory and mixing it into a current trip, or some of us suffer some perception quirks.

Nichols, I think, is working on a super-attaching lsd which can perma-dock into its receptor.
That’d be a major bummer if having a nasty trip!

For me, I’m just not normal until I’ve slept the trip off. I’m still seeing walls breathe the next day and patterns move, etc.
If those effects don’t count, then I agree that 12 hours is the max. But those effects are most enjoyable to me, especially after 8 hours.
Hmmmph

Also, we get so hooked on the quantativity (nice word if it exists) of it all.

We forget, ultimately, it’s a key in a lock. A trigger. Like an ignition key.

25 ug, starts the engine just doesn’t take it very far. But the mind as you say can still do a lot more with it potentially, make a lot of it.

Allergies nearly managed shortly, then finally some much needed plant based psychoactives.

Hope you are having a good day @DrumTripper and sorry it was me again dragged you into this mess.

My intentions were good, but I dragged you into the firing line in process.

I’ll do my best not to be part of a firing line again, be more sensitive, less loudmouth, and aim to diffuse sooner than later in future.

 

[DrumTripper]

Nah, we all got sucked into that one.
I still agree that dosage is immaterial after one spends enough time in wonderland.
I like how you put it: starting the engine.
That’s why you can “graduate” into mini-doses; start the engine and then use gravity to coast.
A horse once whipped needs only a flicker of movement toward the whip by the rider to git on up.

Wonder what the OP is doing with this 7 page discourse.
Like he’s contemplating a 1/4 tab and that should have been fine. One can ALWAYS take more, not less.

Sorry to all if I contributed to it getting off the rails - but no rumours were spread in this thread. Only past trips.
Cheers and cheer on!

 

[simstim]

Well, so they say, but the actual fact is, nobody really knows for sure.

It’s much more of a hypothesis than a diagnosis, classified as potential undiagnosed schizophrenia.

I know a true schizophrenic very well, was friends years ago still know.

I’ve observed cannabis and LSD equally catapulting him into delusion, social withdrawal and catatonia, sectioning usually imminently to follow, from quite a young age.

Syd displayed zero signs of schizophrenia using cannabis for years.

God knows how much LSD he actually ingested, I dread to think. Starting in 66 when it would have been legal in Chemists. In 1967 alone he must have run through an insane quantity.

To me it’s not inconceivable that he may have taken more milligrams of acid, than days, in 1967 alone. There was also a suspected mega, or overdose resulting in an irreversible overnight change.

You really don’t need to be schizophrenic I don’t feel, to change the way Syd did.

I’ve only dipped my toes quantity wise in comparison recently. But who knows?

I just don’t buy the Schizophrenia explanation because I know simply massively overusing LSD can lead to permanent alterations.

Peter Greene was never viewed as a Schizophrenic but one particular very deep trip on the legendary Orange Sunshine Acid sent him AWOL for 25 years before….coming around lol.

LSD is powerful. Deserves respect. But it’s true, it’s ignition for schizophrenic outbreak and flare up, but so is cannabis in my direct observation of true, genuine and severe schizophrenia.

I think stimulants like meth and MDPV analogues are much more likely to get you labeled drug induced psychosis or even schizophrenic than psychedelics in my experience.

 

[AutoTripper]

I think stimulants like meth and MDPV analogues are much more likely to get you labeled drug induced psychosis or even schizophrenic than psychedelics in my experience.

Yes for most people, psychosis from those addictive type drugs, and depersonalisation can be just as extreme and challenging.

True legit Schizophrenics though like my friend, LSD is about the biggest flare up trigger going, cannabis not far behind but more temporary and acute, while I’ve seen a single LSD use result in 6 months of “hospitalisation” (kidnap under the guise of therapy and care) many times.

I wouldn’t give my schizophrenic mate acid for….a hundred pounds?

Lol, I’m no saint. Would I take 200? Probably not. But a million, I’m not sure how low I’d go, being mortally honest. I mean, my mate is fucked no matter what. Off the streets at least he’s off Crack and Brown.

 

[Ismene2]

How old was your mate auto? Scizophrenia kicks in late teens/twenties(same age as syd and peter green) also same age people start taking drugs.

Schizophrenia rates have stayed constant or fallen slightly over the last 100 years - if lsd or particularly cannabis "triggered" it you would have seen an enormous explosion in schizophrenia rates from the sixties on when drugs became widespread.

 

[AutoTripper]

How old was your mate auto? Scizophrenia kicks in late teens/twenties(same age as syd and peter green) also same age people start taking drugs.

Schizophrenia rates have stayed constant or fallen slightly over the last 100 years - if lsd or particularly cannabis "triggered" it you would have seen an enormous explosion in schizophrenia rates from the sixties on when drugs became widespread.

He’s about 39 now, he manifested fully in teens, but was clearly mentally unhinged, psychotic, and delusional with grand false imaginary memories and beliefs from a child, like the Police have done all this stuff to him, his blood is the key to the Universe, his mum is a serial axe murderer, who killed dozens of people while he grew up, sitting in the car, while she hopped out to do the deed type description.

And so much more. None of it matches a single other’s memory, observation or experience.

Yet you cannot reason. The fact he is the only one in the world to have these wild beliefs, everyone else is mistaken.

Of course he can’t help it. He once tried to convince me of an island with a giant statue of my own head, and his too, and how I had been there.

Crazy shit.

I’m not saying at all, LSD or Cannabis caused his schizophrenia. But of all the drugs I’ve seen him use, those two, especially acid, are Pandoras.

His illness or mentalness was already in him.

Now, he did have the tragic misfortune of discovering his own father, at age 7, hanging dead in the garage.

So there is that. Like, trauma and shock too much to deal with, maybe resulting in a fantastical, disconnected, fabrication of all things real.

But also, I have come across a suggestion for one really unidentified cause of Schizophrenia- white, refined sugar.

The human brain cannot handle refined sugar. It’s a drug, it whiplashes the adrenals, it afffects consciousness and brain chemistry, it has forever been one of the most poisonous, health destroying substances massively consumed.

My friend has always been a heavy white sugar junkie. He is convinced it’s vital for life, “good stuff”, you can’t survive without it.

Along with refined fat, aka manmade plastic, and refined salt, white sugar has had as much negative impact on collective health and illness as any other food in history.

And in those psyche wards, most schizophrenics are still pumping themselves full of white sugar.

 

[DrumTripper]

I can confirm - have a cousin who was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was not diagnosed until after a few lsd trips in his twenties.
My understanding is that it can magnify or bring out latent conditions, so caution especially to the young.

 

[AutoTripper]

I can confirm - have a cousin who was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was not diagnosed until after a few lsd trips in his twenties.
My understanding is that it can magnify or bring out latent conditions, so caution especially to the young.

That would be an interest stat. Of all diagnosed schizophrenics, which used LSD or cannabis, which didn’t, and the age of manifestation.

Like, could a schizophrenic who never touches drugs especially those, go through life without ever being diagnosed, maybe viewed as autistic or something I wonder.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

You're all wayyyy off the mark actually.

I had a 200ug dose of LSD in 1985, it changed me fundamentally and I can still feel the reverberations of that trip

Therefore LSD lasts 36 years. Fact

 

[AutoTripper]

You're all wayyyy off the mark actually.

I had a 200ug dose of LSD in 1985, it changed me fundamentally and I can still feel the reverberations of that trip

Therefore LSD lasts 36 years. Fact

36 years? I was gonna come right out with it yesterday but thought- better not, this WILL be disputed.

But you’ve assured me now, given me some backbone so I’ll say it.

IMO, LSD lasts….FOREVER!

I’m not joking. It’s a consciousness and alteration thing. The Jack doesn’t go back in the box. You can’t undo micrograms. That’s my feeling and experience with it anyway.

But we aren’t all the same, and we don’t all have the same views. Maybe it’s fair to say that we can have different, and yet still valid, realities in cases.

 

[DrumTripper]

Yep, it’s a permanent alteration.
My wife has ONLY taken 12.5 µg and didn’t even feel a thing.
But, in the months since, she’s exhibited a marked thought shift on a number of topics.
I agree, for me at least, that the effects are lifelong. Just not face-melting everyday, but the way we think and how our world-model gets reshaped.