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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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@chinup

I'm curious.

When should the lockdowns stop?
How many months do we give vulnerable people who want vaccines to be vaccinated?

Let's say 30% of a population doesn't want to be vaccinated.

Canada is approaching 70%.
The USA is approaching 50%.

Let's say 30% of people in the US don't want to be vaccinated. How long do they (the remaining 20 percent) have to pick up the phone and book a fucking appointment before the rest of us can get on with our lives?

By "the rest of us" I mean people who have bothered to be vaccinated and those that chose not to, who I respect and have no animosity towards.

I read an article yesterday about a study indicating that the vast majority of people don't get long COVID and those that do almost invariably had medical conditions. Those that don't are probably the aforementioned undiagnosed/comorbid variety?

Very good question. I'm of the opinion that, once a country has sufficiently allowed access to vaccines for all eligible people for long enough, then it becomes the onus of those who choose to refuse the vaccine to make sure they don't get sick, and we should be stopping lockdowns and restrictions. Otherwise, a group of people who do not want to fuck with the vaccine are effectively holding the rest of society hostage, but at some point that doesn't even become their fault, since they're really just saying hey, I accept the risk and choose to take my chances, due to understandable fears (fears I share(d), but chose to take on regardless). At that point it is on governments to stop hand holding and allow them to accept that risk. It also sucks that unvaccinated populations allow the virus to continue to mutate and circulate, but I don't believe in mandating vaccines, at least not unless we have another truly deadly pandemic. I mean COVID is dangerous but let's be real, it's no smallpox or ebola.

The only aspect of this that is unfortunate is that some people cannot get the vaccine because of underlying conditions or whatever, even though they would if they could. That sucks for them, but those people, unfortunately, just need to continue to take precautions. We can't lock society down forever to account for a small minority of unfortunate people. And I don't think there are many who refuse the vaccine because of fears who really wanted lockdowns in the first place. I agreed with the restrictions and mask mandates for the first year before vaccines became widely available, and I agree that they should remain in effect in places where vaccines have not been available to many people, but many countries have had vaccines available to all eligible adults for quite some time now and everyone who wants to get one has already gotten one, for the most part. So at this point it's time to allow people to either get back to normal because they're not at significant risk anymore, or to accept the risk they've taken on for themselves.
 
This man I have known about for decades and have mostly agreed with as far as I can comment.

I won’t consider him propaganda. There is a difference between propaganda and misinformation too.

“STORY AT-A-GLANCE

While Pfizer claims its vaccine is 95% effective, this is the relative risk reduction. The absolute risk reduction — which is far more relevant for public health measures — is actually less than 1%

While benefits from COVID “vaccination” in children between the ages of 12 and 15 are rare and short-lived, side effects are common and long-term effects are completely unknown

In the 12-to-15 age group, 75.5% experienced headache, along with a long list of other transient side effects. Serious systemic adverse events occurred in 2.4% of the trial subjects receiving Pfizer’s mRNA shot

While Pfizer boasted a 100% efficacy rate in 12- to 15-year-olds, this conclusion is a statistical trick. Fewer than 2% of fully vaccinated children avoided COVID-19; 98% of them would not have gotten COVID anyway. So, the benefit is small

Even if vaccinating children were found to reduce infection among adults, it would be unethical and against regulations to do so, because the FDA can only authorize the use of a medical product in a given population if the benefit outweighs the risk in that same population, and in children the benefits do not outweigh the risks.”

(I can’t post the link, something prevents this site being posted around. I’ll see if I can find a way around it).


And interesting too is this U.K. government’s (better safe than sorry??) apparent anticipation, expectation of a large number of potential dead bodies.

I was under the impression that the curve was pretty flattened, and “with the vaccine rollout going SO well…” as was repeated in exclamation all over media until suddenly lockdown didn’t end in June….where are these deaths anticipated to come from?

Variants? 3rd, 4th, 5th waves?

Or some other casualties? And this is propaganda proof this one at least.

Okay, I tried to post the direct link to the UK Gov’s website but something just won’t let me post this. So…









Contingency contracts like that aren't particularly unusual. London councils were a little overwhelmed last year and earlier this year, and I guess following enough discussion between them this was the upshot. It's not indicative of them knowing the future any more than their lack of a contingency beforehand demonstrated any kind of preparedness or foresight.
 
Apologies to anyone I offended recently in this thread. I'm having a cunt of a time at the moment. Serious waves of depression. As my mental state slowly deteriorates over the years, I keep discovering new lows. It almost makes me laugh now. I don't know how long I can keep going like this.

When I say I can't lockdown any more, I seriously mean it. It's not a minor inconvenience for me. I am losing my fucking mind. My relationship is under serious strain. The small business I run online is basically dead now and I have to pay off my house so that's been real fun.

@chinup

Something else occurred to me today.

you said:
if a superspreader (usually most people infected infect no one, but some people infect 10s of people) enters that location, and infects 50% of the people there, a minority of those people wlll go onto be superspreaders elsewhere, presumably in other businesses that don't give a shit.

Since vaccinated people have lower viral loads and are typically asymptomatic, how likely is a vaccinated person to be a superspreader?

You said usually most people infected infect no one. So, do vaccinated people actually infect anyone? Is there any reliable data on this?
 
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AutoTripper said:
Is it not statistically, by fact and record, still high 98 + % survivability rate?

That rate is averaged across the past two years. The mortality rate varies by country and always has, but - in most countries - it has improved dramatically. If you take the US, for example, I believe it is now 99 point something %... But even that is misleading because the majority of deaths are aged 70+. The current mortality rate (or whatever the correct term is, I don't give a fuck) for people in their 20s is nothing like the mortality rate for geriatrics. These broad statistics (98%/99%/whatever) are misleading, I think.

Not completely sure about all that, happy to be corrected by someone who has spent more time reading about it.

That selfie you posted made me smile.
You look like a Hobbit from the 1960s. :)
 
Since vaccinated people have lower viral loads and are typically asymptomatic, how likely is a vaccinated person to be a superspreader?
this was specifically in response to you asking why i didn't think businesses should be able to make their own decisions regarding letting unvaccinated people into their indoor areas. i was advocating for allowing vaccinated people in and letting the unvaccinated enjoy the consequences of their actions at home where they can't hurt anyone.

we know the vaccines reduce transmission but it will never be 100%. i have no idea whether a vaccinated person could be a superspreader, my gut says it is not a yes/no answer but the probabilities will be lower in the case of vaccinated people.

also i don't think vaccinated people are totally asymptomatic. some still die of covid. its a numbers game again.
 
Everything is a numbers game. If you can't even suggest the probability of danger, then what is the point? Should we avoid all risk?
because i'm not an epidemiologist. so i don't know.

i could look it up and make an estimate, but i'm working my second 50+ hour week in a row (and my line of work is extremely mentally draining) while moving house and going through some severe mental health shit. the work i'm doing right now will make these dicussions irrelevant by just telling people whether detectable quantities of a given microbe are present in a given location. so, it seems like concentrating on that is a better use of my time.

i think i've made it clear a number of times that risk can't be eliminated without excessive costs in other areas (mental health, small businesses, etc).

i answered because you had tagged me several times and i've just not had the mental space/time to respond, but didn't want you to think i was ignoring you. i just don't have the bandwidth for this right now though, apologies.
 
chinup said:
because i'm not an epidemiologist. so i don't know.

If you don't know then why assume the worst?

Maybe people shouldn't be forced to present vaccination certificates at restaurants if there is no reasonable evidence to support such an extreme measure?

If you find the time to produce said evidence, let me know... Otherwise I'm going to assume it doesn't exist.
 
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If you don't know then why assume the worst?

Maybe people shouldn't be forced to present vaccination certificates at restaurants if there is no reasonable evidence to support such an extreme measure?

If you find the time to produce said evidence, let me know... Otherwise I'm going to assume it doesn't exist.
deaths amongst unvaccinated are much higher, most people in hospital in the uk with covid right now are unvaccinated. from here the longest transmission cascade occurred in a bar. according to this household transmission is the most common, but social contacts between family and friends- i.e. in groups where you would be chatting together, have higher transmission rates than casual contacts.

to respond to this i am literally taking time out of getting us out of this fucking mess in a way that i think we both agree is preferable- providing data on whether transmissible levels of virus are present in a given indoor environment so that appropriate measures can be taken.

nobody is being forced to do anything. if you choose to enter a private business you need to abide by the rules of that business and the laws of the land you are in. if you disagree with either, you can choose not to do so.

my parents are both self isolating at present because there was transmission in a restaurant they went to. there was an outbreak related to another restaurant near me. don't really want to practically give away my address so unfortunately i'm unwilling to provide the link. this is over the past 14 days. i don't have a breakdown of where the virus is transmitted and suspect its impossible to get an accurate one given how broken track and trace is over here, but the east asian states probably have better data.

restaurants and bars are the only place indoors that you can't reasonably be expected to where a mask (and the evidence on those is pretty good) and remain for a long period, so it makes logical sense to me that these would have higher rates of transmission.
 
@birdup.snaildown hi man. I read your post and personal admission of struggle on a toilet break from a long sleep catching up, most nights or times I sleep, I’m permanently bursting for a pee, and a poo, within half hour of going to sleep each time, eventually waking after a time of feeling like a cesspit, often I get up for both maybe 10 to 15 times in a normal sleep, feeling totally exhausted from it and like I need to go to bed when I get up.

With the lungs so full of mucus I dread waking and feeling it.

But I was itching to reply to you in support. I slept long, as it’s the first time in a week I was able to access deeper sleep.

3 hours and all allergies managed again but no energy at all.

It’s all good now but any food today and it’s repeat tomorrow. I’m looking for a few extra hacks/modifications to tip the balance, make it easier, get some energy up.

It’s a big “drawing board” but I’ll keep at it.

But I do really feel for you. Personally, I could not even look after our beautiful 7 yr old greyhound, if my mum died, which has also been not an outside possibility.

Conversely, I’ve done well, gaining lots of weight rapidly. Honestly 3 months ago, my first health treatment in 6 terrible months (for all of us), I would not have lived another 2 weeks otherwise.

I’ve been following some hardcore intensive healing regimens since, the homeopathy, high dosage quality probiotics (soil based organisms), additional treatments, and what’s known as energy healing, very very powerful procedure to remove “dead energy” from the body.

Plus a rife frequency generator with a very powerful new specific frequency.

From literally almost guaranteed life fading 3 months ago, I’ve gained astonishing weight, I’m not in the Red Zone anymore.

For a long time, I genuinely feared I might die at any time, heart stopping possibly due to true ultimate exhaustion or just starvation.

In which case, I had the most extreme anxiety for my mum, who’s had a full on mental, emotional breakdown this year, I’m supporting her remarkably well but I’m trying not to use her for support at all now, just keep it buttoned up which is difficult.

Like, if she suddenly found me deceased, she would likely emotionally crumble.

Not- remove every visible vaporizer, jar of weed, any clue drugs are in the house such as over 600 trips (still lol, it was a good thousand not too long ago), plus our stock of self use only homegrown weed, jars and jars and jars from previous summers, just all safely hidden no visible clue.

But now we have 5 weed plants in the garden to be disposed of in such event, before even dialling an authority.

Plus the equivalent of 6000 10 mg Vals in Etizolam powder.

For this reason alone, the legal threat if rapid preventative action wasn’t taken, I just can’t afford to die.

So the times I was hanging by a sliver, the anxiety of that alone was too extreme.

Back to my point- if my mum passed, no way could I give a pet dog any sort of life, I’d also have 4 weeks max to move out and empty a cluttered house too.

So I was thinking of you, 2 lovely years ago, bringing your daughter into the world who I’m sure is your world, wanting to be your absolute best for her, and give her the best life in a free world.

And the promise and sight of that diminishes continually from where I look, despite all the promises if we all just keep jumping through hoops.

I think there’s only really one hoop they will accept to permit “freedom” - not a single unjabbed person among us, ideally. Just my feeling, no matter what the real stats tell us.

And that, was never the criteria from the start. It was painted as a Merry brick road. Normal around the corner.

Goal posts just constantly moving back miles in line with whatever narrative is conjured.

Not challenging you @birdup.snail down or anyone. Just speaking my mind.

When I say, solidarity, that doesn’t mean agreement on all or any things.

That isn’t likely to happen. But we can disagree, debate, with respect, and in peace, in my hope.

Anyway, bringing up a child- never done it. Have always been daunted by the prospect too. But my own dad, lovely intelligent man, OD’d age 3 1983, my mum stopped the brown and everything soon as I was conceived and so commendingly.

My Dad failed, they separated and rest is history.

It never affected me like grief of loss when older, no memories, but everything is in a pipe line deep down just we aren’t aware of it.

So maybe this conditioned me to be fearful of having my own children?

I can’t even have a relationship since 2005 due to my allergies and constant infection level alone banishing romance on any level, which is a shame itself because I used to be a really handsome, well loved man and in person I still have an amazing personality, sense of humour, compassion, really good company and good fun.

You won’t be alone either, wrt the mounting pressure on your relationship.

The human psyche is very delicate. In the name of allegedly greater good, it’s just a fact that our individual psyches and emotional states are being destroyed to pieces in more places than not.

This doesn’t come into consideration though does it when there is a global public “emergency” at hand with what plus 98 % survival rate if not over 90, especially if we had true numbers on those who have died FROM Covid, not just WITH, you get me?

So I empathise and wish I could help with support. I am glad you shared your true feelings though, not that I ever feel you hide everything, you just leave your baggage at the door, which I respect.

But I’m an ambassador for being open with our feelings. It’s important. No shame. We are all pegs of the same, connected tent.

It affects us all if just one peg goes down, IMO.

And your business you built too, curtailed, and no exemption from feeding the system paying off your house either.

Just permanently mounting pressure. Not needed when you describe your declining mental health state.

I do wish I could help. One thing I thought about, and no patronisation meant- I wonder how you are doing general physical health wise.

Like, if you are able, on paper, to keep going, not suffering too much, enough physical energy and stamina and not too much pain I hope.

If so as I wish, maybe try focussing on what you still have in your control. It’s a shitty world but your daughter (and wife) still have you.

I was at my witts end leading up to the November political pantomime and since, I have gone to the deepest depths of depression and despair, hopelessness since.

And I don’t have any responsibility besides supporting my mum and keeping our dog happy (I am gifted at making a dog feel happy and secure, one of my natural talents, also people too you know I know I have a rare talent for easing people out of trauma and despair, using compassion, understanding, philosophy and good humour too).

I don’t live in the real world. I live in my world, attached to it.

Yourself much more so, you work, had your business, full family life and god knows what more.

So we’re all in vastly different positions but similar ones too ironically.

I’m digging deep deep always. I hope you can find a way to keep doing so yourself.

If I’m freed from the trap, effectively, of my conditions, free to normal life like average experience and opportunities- travel, employment, friendships, relationships, normal routine and basic pleasures (nice, healthy food, exercise, breathing fresh air, morning sunlight etc), I would be elated.

We all take more for granted than we recognise. Focussing on the little positives and what we can do, can help.

So I hope your physical condition and comfort level is stable enough, energy level. If so, take thanks in that. And just, keep doing your best. Take pressure off yourself and try not to beat yourself up too, is always good advice, when I’m sure you are doing your absolute best and beyond.

Sorry if this does feel patronising. I just really wanna offer any words of support and encouragement. My head is very blank today too. But above comes from heart, not head.

@chinup sorry to hear you too are really struggling with mental and emotional issues and sorry for the abrasiveness and lack of sensitivity in some of my comments when we have disagreed.

I hope you get some inspiring and rewarding results from your current work and a chance to rejuvenate the other side.

Beware though folks, I’m gonna resume my usual style here posting things, making points from my view, because I give a huge damn about everybody and want the best world for all. That is where I am always coming from anyway.

That rate is averaged across the past two years. The mortality rate varies by country and always has, but - in most countries - it has improved dramatically. If you take the US, for example, I believe it is now 99 point something %... But even that is misleading because the majority of deaths are aged 70+. The current mortality rate (or whatever the correct term is, I don't give a fuck) for people in their 20s is nothing like the mortality rate for geriatrics. These broad statistics (98%/99%/whatever) are misleading, I think.

Not completely sure about all that, happy to be corrected by someone who has spent more time reading about it.

That selfie you posted made me smile.
You look like a Hobbit from the 1960s. :)
Haha, a Hobbit! Not heard that one before. But Hobbits are pretty pure honest beings I think, and I am kind of that way by nature.

It just always shocks me how well I can appear regardless of all factors.

I’m glad it brought a smile though. I would have my picture as my Emoji to simply be transparent and not hiding, except for the (outside) potential chance of legal repercussions.

Very good question. I'm of the opinion that, once a country has sufficiently allowed access to vaccines for all eligible people for long enough, then it becomes the onus of those who choose to refuse the vaccine to make sure they don't get sick, and we should be stopping lockdowns and restrictions. Otherwise, a group of people who do not want to fuck with the vaccine are effectively holding the rest of society hostage, but at some point that doesn't even become their fault, since they're really just saying hey, I accept the risk and choose to take my chances, due to understandable fears (fears I share(d), but chose to take on regardless). At that point it is on governments to stop hand holding and allow them to accept that risk. It also sucks that unvaccinated populations allow the virus to continue to mutate and circulate, but I don't believe in mandating vaccines, at least not unless we have another truly deadly pandemic. I mean COVID is dangerous but let's be real, it's no smallpox or ebola.

The only aspect of this that is unfortunate is that some people cannot get the vaccine because of underlying conditions or whatever, even though they would if they could. That sucks for them, but those people, unfortunately, just need to continue to take precautions. We can't lock society down forever to account for a small minority of unfortunate people. And I don't think there are many who refuse the vaccine because of fears who really wanted lockdowns in the first place. I agreed with the restrictions and mask mandates for the first year before vaccines became widely available, and I agree that they should remain in effect in places where vaccines have not been available to many people, but many countries have had vaccines available to all eligible adults for quite some time now and everyone who wants to get one has already gotten one, for the most part. So at this point it's time to allow people to either get back to normal because they're not at significant risk anymore, or to accept the risk they've taken on for themselves.
Hi, if I may quote you I think from memory to the exact word and tone too…


“I expect things to go normal once a vaccine is available, If they don’t, then I’ll start to question things.”

Or very close to that, months ago. I’d say we are on or just over the hilt to at least START questioning things.

I do appreciate your fair, non judgmental, non dictating, non oppressing and non dividing but reasoned attitude toward it and us all.
 
deaths amongst unvaccinated are much higher, most people in hospital in the uk with covid right now are unvaccinated. from here the longest transmission cascade occurred in a bar. according to this household transmission is the most common, but social contacts between family and friends- i.e. in groups where you would be chatting together, have higher transmission rates than casual contacts.

to respond to this i am literally taking time out of getting us out of this fucking mess in a way that i think we both agree is preferable- providing data on whether transmissible levels of virus are present in a given indoor environment so that appropriate measures can be taken.

nobody is being forced to do anything. if you choose to enter a private business you need to abide by the rules of that business and the laws of the land you are in. if you disagree with either, you can choose not to do so.

my parents are both self isolating at present because there was transmission in a restaurant they went to. there was an outbreak related to another restaurant near me. don't really want to practically give away my address so unfortunately i'm unwilling to provide the link. this is over the past 14 days. i don't have a breakdown of where the virus is transmitted and suspect its impossible to get an accurate one given how broken track and trace is over here, but the east asian states probably have better data.

restaurants and bars are the only place indoors that you can't reasonably be expected to where a mask (and the evidence on those is pretty good) and remain for a long period, so it makes logical sense to me that these would have higher rates of transmission.

What happens if you are just a guy, just a person like everybody else, trying to explain something that simply cannot be explained on a purely intellectual level? I read what you write and it all makes sense, at least when it comes down to viability. I am no expert but you really seem to know what you are talking about and your intentions, they come across as genuine and with the best interests of everybody involved.

But it doesnt justify the most important aspect of what we are trying to resolve here. And that is how can we all go back to living in peace, which is what we all want, right? Or is the basis for this simply the oppurtunity for society to get back at one another for how hard life is? If so, we dont need to use this as a backdrop for destroying ourselves, we just need the courage to come out in the open and say what we really mean and do what we really want to do.

The only way we can move forward is to reconnect with one another and stop looking at each other as mechanical objects to be manipulated. Trying to explain away what is going on from a professional perspective, from an intellectual perspective etc doesnt seem to work. It bypasses the most basic parts of human communication and gives all the power to something outside of our control. When I put it like that, it sounds a lot like religion, or a cult. The cult members dont have any say in the ideology that makes up their shared reality. They may have books, they might even have science. All is well until you dont want to operate on that frequency anymore and want to see things differently and now you find great difficulty because you were never meant to see the world outside of the shared reality you subscribed to.

If only it was so easy to explain away humanity in the way we are doing here. That makes us all mere matter. We are just pointless empty "stuff" and the depth of our suffering is ignored in exchange for something entirely superficial and detrimental. We are just animals to be disregarded of sentience to be herded around because we cannot think or act for ourselves. We are a liability.

With all respects, you sound like you really take this seriously and almost like your life revolves around stuff like this. I say stuff because I couldnt even begin to define what it is because of the complexity of what we are talking about. I understand that much for sure - it is complex. It really seems like people like yourself are trying to justify one of the most destructive political events in our history in this way without comprehending the reality of what is actually going on. I feel all your education, your intelligence, your experience etc it doesnt mean anything because the answers are not to be found there.

I notice a lot of talk about science and experts etc we dont need either to live together and to communicate our most important needs. We just need to recognize we have that within us already. We just need to harness it.

The solution is coming together and helping each other get out of this mess. To hold each other accountable for that, to tell each other how we feel and how we all have essentially chosen to be each others jailors so we can fix that. Controlling one another like this doesnt work and thats common sense. That isnt based on several years at university because you dont need to have a degree in biology to have a basic awareness of how this is killing us all.

And it is killing us. We are killing each other with our endless war against one another. A war we were told to fight, a war we were essentially forced to fight.

It is not yet illegal to come back to solid ground and connect with one another and really seek to enable one another to live again. To put each others experiences of this dark period in history at the forefront of what we do moving forward. If its hurting you, its hurting me. If I am seeking to divide us, I too am divided. If I hurt you, I hurt myself in the process. You cannot have actions without the consequence of those actions. All the violence we are causing one another is coming back to hurt us. And judging by the comments it hurts us more and more each time.

I say all this inclusive of everyone. We are all in this together. That is the nature of our existence. Our lives are propped up by one another. Pretending we can just destroy the foundations and society not be affected and for us to not be affected as a result is scarily out of touch with reality. It is suicide. Moreover, murder suicide. You kill me but then you kill yourself. If there was anything to benefit from any of this, we wouldnt be here today with all the problems we have as a result.

Do we want to kill one another? Do we hate one another that much? Do we wish to cause each other that much pain and misery? Do we want to enable an environment that seeks to each others lives? The promised land doesnt exist. We should know that by now. We are all sailing towards this X on the map expecting it to be a utopia. Turns out, its just another broken promise by yet more politicians who are lying, cheating and stealing. Yet another political campaign where a new world is promised on a silver platter.

It is us, every single of us, who pays the price for continuing to believe them.
You cant explain that with the job you have. But you can explain that as a human being grounded in the reality of this world we live in.
 
Okay, some bits I came across.

1st image- says in a nutshell exactly how I and many others feel strongly, hence our defiance and rebellion. We believe that freedom is at stake entirely, being so cunningly, deceitfully peddled away covertly under the Trojan guise of the greater good, sacrifice.

Sacrifice what? Freedom forever if we are not very damn careful collectively.


upload

These two, just a little humour. Love Trump’s face there. THAT is power.

Check that evil cretin Macron BULLYING powerLESS Biden. The best candidate clearly as evidenced by how things actually are in America NOW, vs October and even beyond.



upload


And here, are some numbers from a recent study, and calculations or risk vs reward.

I haven’t researched the study, and I’m not trying to post misinformation.

I just have little personal belief in doubting these people and these reports. Last shot a Greek news headline.





upload

“STORY AT-A-GLANCE

While the list of crimes committed by authorities during the COVID-19 pandemic is a long one, perhaps the biggest crime of all is the purposeful suppression of safe and effective treatments, including ivermectin. This appears to have been done to protect the COVID “vaccine” program

The COVID shots were brought to market under emergency use authorization (EUA), which can only be obtained if there are no other safe and effective alternatives available

Several systematic reviews and meta-analyses of studies looked at ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 infection. A rapid review performed on behalf of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) in the U.S., January 3, 2021, found the drug “probably reduces deaths by an average 83% compared to no ivermectin treatment”

According to a more recent review and meta-analysis, ivermectin, when used preventatively, reduced COVID-19 infection by an average 86%
Another recent scientific review concluded ivermectin produces large statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance.



It just depends where you look and who your trust really ultimately.

I do NOT trust the FDA.

NAC is now imminent for ban too after 60 years perfectly safe history profile with profound acclaimed and valued benefits, they started trials recently to see if NAC is effective against Covid after circulating reports.

Suddenly….it’s to come OFF the shelves for good. Surely soon to reappear as so so often, in synthetic form fully patented from big Pharma and big Pharma. Only.

They are experts at taking away every good natural side effect free thing where they legally can, dissuasion and propaganda discouragement otherwise, discrediting with pure lie, while they weaken us and poison us from infinite angles.

This is NOT conspiracy talk. This is reality. My eyes were opened to it shockingly when I was forced down the path of seeking healing, treatment and recovery in this insidiously corrupt world.
 
@AutoTripper

You are a gem. Don't change.

...

It seems that nobody has sufficient reliable data to accurately say how contagious vaccinated people are, or how vulnerable to infection (or death) for different age groups who are vaccinated.

Until we have this data, we should do trial and error. In Australia, this means we vaccinate the vulnerable population that wants to be vaccinated. If they don't want the vaccination, we call them and explain the risks. If they still refuse, we explain that the age of lockdowns is coming to an end.

6 months is reasonable.

We give everyone half a year to get vaccinated, then we go back to normal. Back to the way life has been for me since I was born in the 1980s. Nobody wants to do lockdowns any more. We all have different alternatives, but it seems we are united against lockdown.

If there are still uncontrollable outbreaks, we re-assess the situation.

It has to stop at some point. Eventually, I will join the ranks of those willing to be arrested in order to defend my freedom. I hope it doesn't come to that. People just aren't going to allow governments across the world to become totalitarian because of a virus.

Show me the evidence that a COVID-vaccinated person is at higher risk than someone (who is not vaccinated against flu) is if they catch the flu?
 
It really seems like people are brainwashed about lockdowns. When they first announced them, people had sensible emotional reactions. Now we are numb. People I love and respect IRL are numb. It disturbs me.
 
Show me the evidence that a COVID-vaccinated person is at higher risk than someone (who is not vaccinated against flu) is if they catch the flu?
Hi man. Good mention here as 3 years ago in UK the flu vaccine that everybody was given was officially only 3% effective that winter due to 3 different variants with only 3 % being covered.

I discussed it with asthma nurses and they were fully aware of it.

I believe it’s usually a higher % but is always a case of predicting the unknown.
 
Some numbers here. By all means debunk where you can, but this man knows how to do proper research (Dr Mercola).

Again, something blocks me posting his links, prob my iPad and it’s little A.I. algorithms.

“COVID Vaccine Deaths and Injuries Are Secretly Buried”


“STORY AT-A-GLANCE

Reports of deaths and serious injuries from the COVID-19 jabs mount by the day. As of June 11, 2021, the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) had posted 358,379 adverse events, including 5,993 deaths and 29,871 serious injuries

In the European Union’s database of adverse drug reactions from COVID shots, called EudraVigilance, there were 1,509,266 reported injuries, including 15,472 deaths as of June 19, 2021. EudraVigilance only accepts reports from EU members, so it covers only 27 countries. Remarkably, about HALF of all reported injuries — 753,657 — are listed as “serious”

The British Yellow Card system had, as of June 9, 2021, received 276,867 adverse event reports following COVID “vaccination,” including 1,332 deaths
Before you make the decision to participate in this unprecedented health experiment, it may be wise to assess your personal insurance and financial ability to handle a serious injury, as pandemic vaccine manufacturers are indemnified against lawsuits

If you are injured by a COVID shot and live in the U.S., your only recourse is to apply for compensation from the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Act (CICP). Payouts are rare, cover only lost wages and unpaid medical bills, cannot be appealed, are capped around $370,000 for death, and require you to exhaust your private insurance before kicking in.”
 
Some numbers here. By all means debunk where you can, but this man knows how to do proper research (Dr Mercola).
Your source has far too much skin in the game to be taken seriously (yup, before anyone responds, just like Big Pharma etc)

This good doctor has made a great living manipulating the easily manipulated out of their hard earned £££ for many years selling his 'cures' etc.

@AutoTripper iirc you attended University - can I ask what subject you studied? I'm asassuming they encouraged you to investigate the credibility of your sources thoroughly?
 
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