What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[QuietUniverse]

lol i had a red rockstar years ago, one of the ones with the Registered or ''Trademark'' print on the back. Was waaaayyyy out of the ballpark for regular mdma. About 8 years ago in AUS if anyone remembers them/has had them? Imported or something or other lol...

140mg i think

 

[LSDiesel]

Does anyone who follows the thought that old 80s and 90s MDMA was superior to todays MDMA tried 5-MAPB? I wonder if the OP has tried it

 

[QuietUniverse]

I was sold that ( or 6-APB i think) as mdma heaps 4 years ago in AUS ^ Was what some people were selling as MDA crystal (all of this was powder MDA though and MDA tablets/general mdma tablets or a while there .

 

[LSDiesel]

I am a big fan of 5-MAPB, I find it’s wayyy better than most mdma or molly. Mostly due to the lack of a comedown and a 2 day afterglow which allows for a return to rolling if you have some weed or ketamine around. I personally think the secret to incredible E was a mixture of MDMA and MDA.

i have 6-apb also which is very much like MDA and if I want to make my roll a little more epic I might add 10 to 20 mg of 6-APB to my 50mg of 5-MAPB. I find it makes a big difference . However just like MDA, the more 6-APB you use the more of a “crash” you have the next day which is mainly just a desire to sleep all day, but it ruins the afterglow of 5-MAPB and I swear sometimes it’s the afterglow that can be the best part of the roll. I know it may sound silly to some but I bet old skool ravers and rollers know what I’m talking about. You feel great, antidepressed, and are in such a good mood from the hopefully epic and wonderful memories that were just made the night before.

 

[AutoTripper]

I am a big fan of 5-MAPB, I find it’s wayyy better than most mdma or molly. Mostly due to the lack of a comedown and a 2 day afterglow which allows for a return to rolling if you have some weed or ketamine around. I personally think the secret to incredible E was a mixture of MDMA and MDA.

i have 6-apb also which is very much like MDA and if I want to make my roll a little more epic I might add 10 to 20 mg of 6-APB to my 50mg of 5-MAPB. I find it makes a big difference . However just like MDA, the more 6-APB you use the more of a “crash” you have the next day which is mainly just a desire to sleep all day, but it ruins the afterglow of 5-MAPB and I swear sometimes it’s the afterglow that can be the best part of the roll. I know it may sound silly to some but I bet old skool ravers and rollers know what I’m talking about. You feel great, antidepressed, and are in such a good mood from the hopefully epic and wonderful memories that were just made the night before.

Don’t forget MDE as well, in that hypothesis.

MDA was by far the rarest, least prominent of the 3 through the 90’s, according to all the lab analysis I looked at over the years.

It really surprised me to see how remarkably prevalent MDE was in 90-95 pills.

Especially the legendary white doves.

Up to 170 mg MDE alone, or that amount mixture of MDMA and MDE.

But MDE was everywhere in those lab reports in the early golden days, and very commonly combined with MDMA.

MDA, fantastic no question. I actually have observed, felt, perceived very clearly, the subjective difference between MDMA, MDA and MDE.

MDE would always be my last pick, because it was a little directionless. (Love that word, auto correct didn’t even underline or try and change it lol.)

Kind of mongey. Not exactly mega sociable, “luvvy-duvvey” (term that floated around the UK back then- Lovedoves!

Not trippy the same as MDA but kind of dreamy. Really chill.

I had pure MDE pills I’m sure and had fantastic times. But to me it was better to have MDMA or MDA somewhere in the mix.

So your theory I don’t dispute but MDA could probably be left out of this topic and discussion entirely and we could still have the debate and follow the rat trail.

 

[LSDiesel]

Some of the most epic pills I can recall were

2007 Newark/NJ White Ladies - MDMA/MDA

2002? Upstate NY: Blue Omegas MDMA - 2CB - MESCALINE - PCP

2004: Upstate NY: Green Smilies MDMA/MDA/Amphet

2004: Upstate NY Yellow Lightbulbs MDMA/Meth

I actually got some 100mg Mescaline presses as part of a new DNM marketing ploy. I didn't test them so I can't confirm without a doubt that it was mescaline, but they were great pills, and felt to me like a very long drawn out 12 hour roll. I would imagine that MDMA/mescaline combo pills would be pretty epic and I have heard scuttlebutt about various presses containing mescaline, or "synthetic mescaline" or a "mescaline analogue", however once you introduce the term "mescaline analogue" that could mean anything from MDMA to 2CB to 2CI to 2CE to Allyescaline, TMA-2 etc etc.

 

[AutoTripper]

I actually wonder if Eve is even still around?

I’m not sure I’ve seen it in a lab analysis for many years. Never is it talked about.

So if MDE is pretty much off the scene, maybe the reason behind that is directly tied to the Meh product and situation in general.

 

[AutoTripper]

Some of the most epic pills I can recall were

2007 Newark/NJ White Ladies - MDMA/MDA

2002? Upstate NY: Blue Omegas MDMA - 2CB - MESCALINE - PCP

2004: Upstate NY: Green Smilies MDMA/MDA/Amphet

2004: Upstate NY Yellow Lightbulbs MDMA/Meth

I actually got some 100mg Mescaline presses as part of a new DNM marketing ploy. I didn't test them so I can't confirm without a doubt that it was mescaline, but they were great pills, and felt to me like a very long drawn out 12 hour roll. I would imagine that MDMA/mescaline combo pills would be pretty epic and I have heard scuttlebutt about various presses containing mescaline, or "synthetic mescaline" or a "mescaline analogue", however once you introduce the term "mescaline analogue" that could mean anything from MDMA to 2CB to 2CI to 2CE to Allyescaline, TMA-2 etc etc.

Just out of interest, did you come across Playstations in 2002? I very strongly suspected them to be predominantly or solely MDA. Less empathegenic than MDMA, very strong and trippy. Long lasting too.

One night I remember taking 10 with about 170 mics of acid. I gauged the Playstations to be a good 120 mg upwards, if MDA that’s lot!

I remember the Sunday evening, I went to score ketamine, very close older lady friend.

When I told her I’d taken 10 pills and 3 trips she screwed up her face a bit and said…”Ouch”. Lol.

But I realised, I was totally off my face still. The ketamine then really highlighted that.

But it was so clean though. No comedown. No edginess, discomfort, regret.

With the good good pills, I’d take tonnes and be in a true, elevated psychedelic state.

Now, there were “shit” pills, bad comedown and barely “magic”.

But the propers, I always felt great until it wore off and I just felt back to my normal self again, cleansed. Not what so many report from suspected Meh nowadays.

Really it’s a trademark of true ecstasy (encompasses it all, like the 3 we discussed)- good, clean, there isn’t a comedown.

 

[Delsyd]

Rick Doblin, who I think is an authority on MDMA, was on Joe Rogans podcast last week. He briefly mentioned how MDMA doesn’t effect him the same way more, that the first few times had a certain magic that his current experiences lack.
Now I believe that Rick has the best connections for legit good MDMA and yet he also isn’t being hit by it the same way, possibly experiencing a little “meh.” The reason I bring this up is because loss of magic is very likely one of the culprits of MehDMA. Sure there are probably some shitty synths going around as well as other drugs being passed off as MDMA but it’s not the standard, where as loss of magic has been getting talked about since I got in to MDMA over 20 years ago.

 

[AutoTripper]

Rick Doblin, who I think is an authority on MDMA, was on Joe Rogans podcast last week. He briefly mentioned how MDMA doesn’t effect him the same way more, that the first few times had a certain magic that his current experiences lack.
Now I believe that Rick has the best connections for legit good MDMA and yet he also isn’t being hit by it the same way, possibly experiencing a little “meh.” The reason I bring this up is because loss of magic is very likely one of the culprits of MehDMA. Sure there are probably some shitty synths going around as well as other drugs being passed off as MDMA but it’s not the standard, where as loss of magic has been getting talked about since I got in to MDMA over 20 years ago.

Just spurting to mind I’ve said many times I did encounter pills I would actually classify as meh, from 96 to 2005. If all was available it would barely appeal.

But the magic was still around. And I, for one, never lost that. I just doesn’t sit with me that magic loss is the culprit and ultimate explanation. By logic and gut.

 

[AutoTripper]

So what do you each like about MDE??

I’m expecting no answers except maybe from some wise elder owls.

I feel privileged to have a very clear walk around conscious memory for the feel of MDE.


But it did strike me earlier- WHEN does anybody mention Eve now? Did it vanish as Meh arrived on scene?

If so, can anything be deduced from that to dig deeper into this riddle?

Anyway, I was curious after I was sure I spotted some rat droppings earlier. I just looked up MDE on Drugsdata.

Sure enough, it’s very common until 2004, then almost vanished except a number of appearances since. Always combined with one or two other MD’s.

So, to me this has to be considered here. 2004, then MDE prevalence in reports drops off a cliff.

DrugsData.org: Test Results

DrugsData.org lab analysis and drug checking results

www.drugsdata.org

 

[Delsyd]

I just doesn’t sit with me that magic loss is the culprit and ultimate explanation. By logic and gut.

I don’t think it’s THE culprit. I think it’s one of the them.
My theory is that there are many variables as to why MDMA might seems meh.
There isn’t one right answer for “what is wrong with MDMA today?”

 

[Negi]

Since the topic of "losing the magic" has come back up, I did a bit of digging through the Erowid experience report archives to see if people were talking about it back in the day. I know a couple of people in this thread have pointed to the fact that more people appear to be reporting losing the magic (or that people are losing the magic at all) as a sign that something about the MDMA has changed.

From 2001: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=15985

Point Number One... E experiences can be finite!! It doesn't last forever. I didn't know this when I started with E. I viewed E as a 'trap door'; if real life ever got too awful or if i needed a break or some kinda clarity on an issue like a recent breakup, E was always there... bliss, bliss... E is NOT always there. Ranging from 20 to 150 X, (upper end for me), the magic stops. The amphetamine-like effects will be there (so what, drink 10 cups of coffee) and the come-down is there, and the teeth-knashing, but the 'ecstatic' part will dwindle... in time, in intensity...

I wish to god E was like heroin, in that you could still get the same effects, but with a higher dosage and cost, but it doesn't work that way. At some point, you will be KICKED OUT OF EDEN. This sucks. Be aware, and in particular, *space out your usage*!! Don't use it biweekly, to avoid comedowns, etc... respect it, (Prozac, Vit C & E & Selenium etc..) because it won't last forever.

[....]

Despite this, I would recommend E or any psychoactives to anyone... I just wish someone had mentioned to me 1) what a pain in the ass real life is compared to mushrooms/E/t-7 etc., and 2) that E doesn't last forever... a few good years, and then it's sitting at a pub trying to kid yourself into believing your friends and a few ciders are remotely a substitute for the mystical union/bliss/oneness/love that you used to know... bleh...

From 2001: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=9257

1998 People and connections changed and someone I knew who frequented Amsterdamn came back with pure powder mdma at a reasonable price. I'd bought a couple grams. Carefully measured 125mg in a capsule was awesome. Full blown but not nearly as much jaw tension and teeth grinding. Surely going up above 150mg would have caused some. This MDMA I did over about a 4-5 month period and sometimes two weekends in a row. It never let me down. Always 'rolled' nearly like the first time (come on, you'll never roll like the first time because you are now familiar with it!).

Jan 2001 -- bought a gram from another source. Unlike the Amsterdamn mdma, it took about 160mg to bring the same effects as 125mg. I believe this to be just cut or maybe some impurities, but it was nearly as smooth and definitely better than any 'tabs' on the street. Took about 2 months for me and mine to work through that gram. Every roll the same. Delightful.

Now this brings me to the Summer of 2001. I purchased 2 grams of the SAME batch as the Jan 2001 MDMA. I fixed two 150mg for a close couple who hadn't done MDMA in a decade. They LOVED it. Full on flickers and everything that goes with the MDMA experience. So the MDMA was not questionable.

But my and mine took a 160mg dose. At an hour I can feel just a tingle, usually much more by now. I pour out 100mg and split it between us to snort ~50 each. Well that sorta kicked it in. Sweaty hands, sounds became reverbery to a small extent. Girl of mine said she had some mild flickers. We are definitely starting to feel the magic fade.

I stay clear and free of any psychedelics for a week. I even preload with some 5htp from morning to evening, 50mg here, 50mg there in hopes to bring back that magic. I dose up the rest. This time I'm going with 200mg each to start. Instead of capping mine, I put it in a shot of some dilute lemon juice. Empty stomach (except for the 5HTP). I feel a very lil something at about 40 minutes. I think hey! This might work. 2 hours later, that same very little something and no development of effects. I dump out 150mg of the pure powder on a mirror and I snarf up 100 (ouch) and she does 50mg. Well now I have some sweat on my palms, feel a lil vibration, still nothing compared to what it SHOULD be. I had a few mg of 2ct2 left and I say screw it, dump it and snort it. This was about 7mgs. I feel the 2ct2. Not strong, but there. I still feel no MDMA.

I'll give MDMA a good long break, a year or two, and if I come across the real deal, I may give it a whirl. But for now, I have say goodbye to one of my best friends. Just doesn't treat me right anymore!

From 2003: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=30329

I have used MDMA recreationally about 10 times over the last 5 months dosing only a single tab at once. My first 3 experiences were by far the best 3 hour periods of my life, the third experience being the pinnacle. The empathetic feelings I felt during the initial trips slowly diminished with every use though; and the crash/hangover period intensified and lasted longer. However, up until the 9th trip, the experience was well worth the hangover, which usually only lasted 1-2 days where I felt run-down.

On the 9th trip however, the experience was short lived and disappointing with few positive effects. In the 10-12 days following the trip I experienced all of the following which have diminished slowly over time: a lack of ability to focus & concentrate, a 'spaced-out' feeling, experiencing panic/stress attacks, and feeling unmotivated, lethargic, and depressed (I sleep every minute I can).

I have also become more anti-social than before. Not wanting to believe that my reaction was real, I re-dosed 2 weeks later from a source I knew was quality. To my GREAT dismay, the trip was very unsatisfying (lost the magic) and I experienced the negative effects from above with even more severity. I have since given up E for now, in hope that one day I'll be able to return to that initial level of 'love for life'.

From 2001: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=11498

I started taking Ecstasy just before my 18th birthday. I was a faithful regular weekend user for just over a year. On average I consumed between 1-2 pills, 1-2 nights a week. The first couple of months were magical and I chased for those same experiences thereafter, but I noticed that the high wasn't as intense and my comedowns were getting drastically more depressing, as was every day life. It got the point where I'd be taking pills and they weren't doing anything for me, apart from making me feel sick and giving my panic attacks.

From 2002: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24435 Bolds are mine.

The first time we took it, we took 1 1/2 pills each. That was more than enough for our first time. The next few times we took it, which was within 6 weeks, we took 2 each.

As we did it more and more (about every 6-8 weeks), we had to take more and more. The effects weren't as wonderful as the first time though. Therefore, some people may say it loses its affect the more you take it. That is what happened to me. I just couldn't take it anymore. I had my fun with it and that was it. I noticed though that after I stopped taking it I had become depressed. I was even on anti-depressants for 6 months. It doesn't effect everyone the same way. My husband still gets that old time feeling every time he takes it. Though he doesn't take it anymore because I don't. If we were to do it again, he would feel as though it were the first time.

Report is from 2011, but the section is from ~ 2008: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=109469 Bolds in this one are mine.

Two weeks later I was back for another rave, but also to spend time with the girl I had met in my prior experience. For some reason, this new fling in combination with the near-arrest had spurred a sudden sense of recklessness that was quite uncommon for me. I decided to take MDMA again, even though I had just taken it 2 weeks prior. It's not like it seemed that dangerous, I even remembered people in reports saying that having a one time 2 week break wouldn't really be that big of a deal. I reasoned with myself that it was only taking MDMA repeatedly with short breaks that could pose a problem. So I said fuck it, popped a capsule once we got to the rave, and waited with the usual anticipation.

Sure enough, 20 minutes later I was getting that unsteady drug-like feeling, something that always used to happen for a few minutes before I would start rolling. It was usually characterized by some anxiety and a sense of 'off-ness', but always quickly replaced with the amazing sensations. But soon, I noticed 15 minutes had already gone by... Why wasn't it moving past this stage? Something was wrong. No no, I thought to myself, you're just psyching yourself out, remember what your friends said before that very first rave, 'Don't expect anything, just let it happen'. So I waited. And waited. But now an hour had gone by and I wasn't feeling the roll. In fact, the anxiety seemed to be getting worse, and I felt incredibly uncomfortable and weak. I felt the familiar jaw clenching, and tingling on my skin, but where was the euphoria? The magic? It didn't make sense to me because my friends had taken the same stuff that I had and they were all having a great time. They would see I was just sitting there and try to ask me what was up, and I just tried to play it off as feeling sick, or having a weird comeup. But something felt very wrong and I couldn't understand why. I had heard of the 'losing the magic' phenomenon, but this was only like my 6th time and I was always careful to take large breaks! Plus I had such a positive time at my last rave, it just didn't make sense. As the night progressed I began to feel a little better and even managed to do a little dancing, but I never got the magical feels, only some mild stimulation.

The interesting part of these to me to me is how varied the number of doses people have taken before losing the magic. Some have the feeling slip away after 10 or so doses, and others can take over 100 before noticing anything.

Then there's reports like this one from 2001: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=4944

Been using ecstasy for about 5 years off and on now, and I still experience the same roll as when I first tried it and I've injested well over 100 pills in that time (close to 300 actually). In this whole time I've never done more than 1 1/2 pills at once.

So clearly whatever causes the loss of effects is highly variable between individuals. I strongly suspect the reason we are seeing more reports of losing the magic (and at lower usage patterns) is that now there are larger easily accessible discussion forums to bring the topic up (and new users have heard of it and recognize it when it happens).

 

[AutoTripper]

These people report losing the magic after what they regard to be in some cases very high unsafe or at least substantial.

I really never lost the magic and dosed like nobody I’ve ever met except one older guy once proclaiming to have taken over 5000 ecstasy pills.

So this will be why I personally haven’t accepted the magic loss argument so readily.

I knew so many people, all ages, taking high amounts over time.

Good ecstasy always worked for me and others.

I’m not denying magic loss btw. It’s a very individual thing.

But at least until 2005 there was no enquiry into MDMA not being right, inferior, lacklustre, an imposter.

I’m sure there was the known phenomenon of magic loss. But massively overshadowed across the board and the globe by the sheer magnificence of MDMA.

 

[Negi]

These people report losing the magic after what they regard to be in some cases very high unsafe or at least substantial.

One of the reports (from 2003) is about losing it after 9 doses.

I really never lost the magic and dosed like nobody I’ve ever met except one older guy once proclaiming to have taken over 5000 ecstasy pills.

I knew so many people, all ages, taking high amounts over time.

Maybe the people who lost the magic weren't hanging out with the people who could keep doing vast amounts of MDMA? I think there's pretty clear case of survivorship bias in who is talking about that era, the people who lost the effects of MDMA after a few months of abuse aren't the ones who are going to be hanging out on drug discussion boards waxing nostalgically about it.

What is your experience with mehDMA? I read your posts in the thread and you mention a single pill you took in 2005 that felt off. Did it reagent test as MDMA?

 

[psy997]

Well, guys, I had what was sold as "pharmaceutical grade MDMA" a few days ago, and holy shit. I am even more firmly of the belief that MehDMA is 100% real. I haven't felt that way in 4+ years. It was absolutely stunning. The bliss, connection, love, sensory explosions, ecstacy; everything MDMA is supposed to be.

Full four hour peak, after effects lasting 12-14hrs after dosing. No sleep until 8-9hrs after dosing.

Everyone in my group was blown away. Friends that have been using MDMA regularly since 2014 saying how weird it was that the peak lasted four hours, and how complete the dissolution of anxiety and self-consciousness was is such a strong indicator of Meh, IMO.

Finally, they are believing me that Meh is a real phenomenon.

I can't put into words how utterly amazing the experience was. Everyone kept talking about how great the MDMA was. It was super expensive, but so good that I will likely stock up as much as I can afford.

 

[AutoTripper]

One of the reports (from 2003) is about losing it after 9 doses.



Maybe the people who lost the magic weren't hanging out with the people who could keep doing vast amounts of MDMA? I think there's pretty clear case of survivorship bias in who is talking about that era, the people who lost the effects of MDMA after a few months of abuse aren't the ones who are going to be hanging out on drug discussion boards waxing nostalgically about it.

What is your experience with mehDMA? I read your posts in the thread and you mention a single pill you took in 2005 that felt off. Did it reagent test as MDMA?

I never tested that suspect batch of Mickey Mouses. They were entirely unlike the superb Heineken Stars, Playstations, Smilies even Doves at the same time.

And looking back, the whole Mickey Mouse thing….

I would never want those pills. I can think of maybe hundreds other batches that were fire.

That was 2005 the Mickey Mouses emerged.

I stopped taking MDMA in 2005 out of necessity and haven’t since, but I did take it regularly, heavily for 9 years.

It never ceased to work. We never had this discussion back then, old folks in it from day one, young ones my age, trillions of people I met at parties and raves.

The stuff just worked, nobody ever called it meh.

 

[unodelacosa]

I am even more firmly of the belief that MehDMA is 100% real.

I thought we established already: illicit MDMA is found in a range of purities on the black market. Impurities and various cuts added either deliberately or as an unintended side-product formed during synthesis.
My conjecture is: several different things can cause a lackluster MDMA experience and that may differ from person to person a bit. Until we have more info this will have to remain speculation.

Finally, they are believing me that Meh is a real phenomenon.

I wouldn't call cut/impure MDMA a phenomenon… Otherwise this “meh” phenomenon occurred decades ago w/ cocaine which is rarely found uncut outside of the countries in which it's produced.

I can't put into words how utterly amazing the experience was.

Ain't life grand?

Everyone kept talking about how great the MDMA was. It was super expensive, but so good that I will likely stock up as much as I can afford.

Glad to hear you had such a good time.

 

[psy997]

I thought we established already: illicit MDMA is found in a range of purities on the black market. Impurities and various cuts added either deliberately or as an unintended side-product formed during synthesis.
My conjecture is: several different things can cause a lackluster MDMA experience and that may differ from person to person a bit. Until we have more info this will have to remain speculation.

I wouldn't call cut/impure MDMA a phenomenon… Otherwise this “meh” phenomenon occurred decades ago w/ cocaine which is rarely found uncut outside of the countries in which it's produced.

Ain't life grand?

Glad to hear you had such a good time.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make with your response. I don't believe intentionally cut or impure MDMA is the source of Meh experiences, and I don't understand why your first statement is relevant.

My experience is an important data point in my scientific-speculative journey in that it disproves myself and other friends having "lost the magic", shows a huge difference in potential MDMA experiences as experienced by a wide range of individuals with mostly different MDMA usage patterns, and more.

This product was tested with a wide variety of reagents, and showed results only for MDMA (though the MDMA vs MDA differentiation test showed a little violet, like MDA would), which was similar to most batches that this group has procured in the past few years, which is also an important data point.

 

[LSDiesel]

AutoTripper THANK YOU for posting those. https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=1332 .

I am 100 percent certain that the green smilies I had were these. And I remembered wrong they had speed or sass mixed in. They had EVE!!! MDE!!

I am convinced now that EVE is a major factor in what makes up good ecstasy. Eve might even be a better mixer than sass. If just for the hangover effect .

MDMA and MDE heavy in the MDMA makes/made epic rolls.