Police Brutality Thread

[birdup.snaildown]

We live in a dangerous new world where people's feelings are more important than facts.

My feelings are hurt when we dont use facts to make policy.

You're confusing me.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I'm sure there are some racists cops in the US. There are racist teachers too and racist journalists. These people need to be dealt with on an individual basis. It doesn't reflect on teachers or cops who are not racist.

I'm not going to just assume that a significant portion of police are racist, but (even if they were racist) they can still act impartially. Racist teachers aren't going to expose themselves as racists in this climate and neither are cops. Neither group can get away with it.

I agree, but cops have much more power, so their actions have more impact, also in hectic situations some of the impartial disappears. All in all, there's no good way to tackle this specifically, I mentioned it, because it's an aspect that doesn't show up in stats.

We don't know.

I again agree. That's why I like to talk about the specific incidents from an almost purely legal perspective.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Statistically correct? Maybe. Neutral? No way. Just read the notes. Exactly what I'm talking about.

Add up "Hispanic", "Other", and "Unknown". The numbers don't look that black (no pun intended) anymore. Add "Black" to that and then compare it to "White"?

Narrative baby! Narrative!

@dalpat077 Good to see you back brother, I haven't seen you around in awhile, hope you've been well and staying safe and healthy, I was thinking about you awhile back.

I still support the blue line and always will, my feelings are if they're going to lock up Chauvin, they other officers are just as guilty, I'm not buying the excuse they were rookies and they are breaking the Blue code and ratting on their fellow police comrade and letting him take all the blame to save their own skin because they know they were wrong in just standing there watching.

This could've all been avoided if the surrounding officers would've cuffed Floyd when Chauvin had him subdued, I understand he was the senior officer, but look at the problem he created by Floyd dying, it was very unnecessary, so in my opinion if Chauvin gets locked up so should the others.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I'm sure there are some racists cops in the US. There are racist teachers too and racist journalists. These people need to be dealt with on an individual basis. It doesn't reflect on teachers or cops who are not racist.

I'm not going to just assume that a significant portion of police are racist, but (even if they were racist) they can still act impartially. Racist teachers aren't going to expose themselves as racists in this climate and neither are cops. Neither group can get away with it.

Police in the US are crucified - and branded racists - for accidentally killing people... maybe this hidden racism that is raging inside people like Chauvin and Potter suddenly drives them to kill... or maybe they legitimately fucked up. We don't know.

American police are definitely harsher in the US than in Australia, but if you zoom in there are lots of areas that aren't heavily policed. Cops act differently in small towns than they do in Detroit.



Opportunity exists.

Agreed. Unless they get on the stand, in this case, or hold a press conference and explain themselves, we are indeed never going to know why they did what they did. We are left to wonder and hope the judicial system gets it right. Before CCTV and cell phones I shudder to think what went on behind the scenes.

I fear never the twain shall meet. We, as a nation , will never outgrow our biased thoughts. When the subject is argued we just try to prove our point a little bit harder. Like the Trump vs Biden thread. Lot of hurt feelings there and people tried hard to make their points, but in the end we all lost. It divided us.

I'm not a doomsday goofball but my fear is it is only going to get worse. Look at how many shootings have come to life in just the last 6 montths? Not only are the cops getting trigger happy but the population has gone full on Rambo. Anybody ever go do their weekly grocery shopping and already looking for all the exits just in case. I've thought about it and it's a fucked up feeling.

 

[aemetha]

No. That is not statistically significant, particularly when you consider the fact that we aren't taking into account all sorts of other crimes and contributing factors.

But that's been my argument all along. That there are all sorts of contributing factors, which should be analysed. You can't just arbitrarily exclude data because it doesn't suit your argument.

No.

No? Police are not the primary agency responsible for reducing violent crime?

I don't believe black people are being shot disproportionately simply because they're black.

Again, not an argument I've made. The argument I've made is that US police kill too many people.

This is getting silly. This debate has basically become: me "US police kill more people than similar countries" you "They aren't racist". I appreciate the civil discussion, but you're just not arguing the same subject as me. It's baffling.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Didn't the kid drop the gun before they shot him, though? If the gun is not longer being pointed at you, you the need to shoot has been eliminated.

No, he had it in his hands. At any time when the policeman showed up he could have dropped the gun, surrendered with his hands up, and been questioned by the cop or been arrested but he made the choice to keep the gun, run with it, and threaten or keep holding the gun. He was still holding the gun milliseconds before he was shot.

If you do stupid things like joining a violent gang, shooting people or pointing or having a gun or a weapon near a cop do not be surprised when you get shot and killed.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

But that's been my argument all along. That there are all sorts of contributing factors, which should be analysed. You can't just arbitrarily exclude data because it doesn't suit your argument.

No? Police are not the primary agency responsible for reducing violent crime?

Again, not an argument I've made. The argument I've made is that US police kill too many people.

This is getting silly. This debate has basically become: me "US police kill more people than similar countries" you "They aren't racist". I appreciate the civil discussion, but you're just not arguing the same subject as me. It's baffling.

Kinda like playing hide and seek with yourself isn't it?

 

[alasdairm]

No, he had it in his hands.

please indicate on this image (of adam toledo just before he was shot) where the gun is "in his hands".:

thanks.

alasdair

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

please indicate on this image (of adam toledo just before he was shot) where the gun is "in his hands".:

thanks.

alasdair

I saw on the news yesterday, how he was holding the gun milliseconds before being shot, they had paused the video frame, and showed the full unedited video.

You gotta love that thumbnail that you posted. The media or you had to go frame by frame to find the 0.2 seconds where his hands were up and the gun was out of sight.

If you shoot a gun at a cop do not be surprised when you get shot and killed.

 

[mal3volent]

I saw on the news yesterday, how he was holding the gun milliseconds before being shot, they had paused the video frame, and showed the full unedited video.

You gotta love that thumbnail that you posted. The media or you had to go frame by frame to find the 0.2 seconds where his hands were up and the gun was out of sight.

If you shoot a gun at a cop do not be surprised when you get shot and killed.

So now you're backing away from the "if he had just dropped the gun" argument. Now it's changed to "if he had just dropped it sooner". Interesting.

 

[alasdairm]

I saw on the news yesterday, how he was holding the gun milliseconds before being shot

first you claimed that the gun was "in his hands" when he was shot. now he dropped it before he was shot.

at least we agree that your initial claim was false.

where will you move the goalposts next?

If you shoot a gun at a cop

did he shoot a gun at a cop?

alasdair

 

[Zephyn]

The cop that killed toledo, I can feel more for than Chauvin. Maybe its because the full video shows him crouching down at the end feeling shitty, and preforming cpr, and trying to save him. He still shouldn't have shot the kid, who in no way threatened the cop with the gun, or started aiming or shooting it at him.

 

[Zephyn]

Racist? Or do they treat even white kids this bad?

'You did it to yourself,' officer tells 9-year-old girl pepper-sprayed by police

"Please don't do this to me," the child said to the police officer in Rochester, New York. "You did it to yourself, hon," the officer replied.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Racist? Or do they treat even white kids this bad?

'You did it to yourself,' officer tells 9-year-old girl pepper-sprayed by police

"Please don't do this to me," the child said to the police officer in Rochester, New York. "You did it to yourself, hon," the officer replied.

www.nbcnews.com

Hah! Based, and true. Did you actually read the article? This crazy girl threatened to kill her mum and herself.

 

[Zephyn]

Hah! Based, and true. Did you actually read the article? This crazy girl threatened to kill her mum and herself.

She is 9.

 

[Zephyn]

A 9 year old child trying to run away from home and wants to kill herself and her mom? No way she might be being abused and needs help. Pepper spray her. Show her the world doesn't give a fuck even more.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

all of them.

in the eyes of the law, they’re all innocent until proven guilty.

when your argument is, well they appear to have committed a crime so it’s ok to shortcut the system and for the police to execute them, you’re throwing due process and constitutional rights out the window.

alasdair

That is not how it works when dealing with violent criminals/suspects, and the threat of the officer or others being hurt or killed by the suspect, especially if the person is a violent criminal, in a gang, threatens police or others, etc.

Qualified Immunity: The Commonly Misunderstood Defense and Opponents’ Efforts to Expose Law Enforcement Officers to Financial Ruin | JD Supra

Recent unrest has thrust the doctrine of qualified immunity into the spotlight. Many of those who oppose law enforcement frequently misrepresent the...

www.jdsupra.com

 

[alasdairm]

The cop that killed toledo, I can feel more for than Chauvin. Maybe its because the full video shows him crouching down at the end feeling shitty, and preforming cpr, and trying to save him.

yeah. add to that the fact that these events unfolded incredibly quickly. but...

He still shouldn't have shot the kid, who in no way threatened the cop with the gun, or started aiming or shooting it at him.

indeed.

alasdair

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

A 9 year old child trying to run away from home and wants to kill herself and her mom? No way she might be being abused and needs help. Pepper spray her. Show her the world doesn't give a fuck even more.

If she is, or was actually being abused, and not just crazy and making threats of violence and self-murder towards herself, there are any number of ways she can report the abuse.

 

[Zephyn]

If she is, or was actually being abused, and not just crazy and making threats of violence and self-murder towards herself, there are any number of ways she can report the abuse.

Where do you expect a 9 year old to learn that? Where does a 9 year old even learn about suicide ?