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Social Justice White/Straight/Cis/Male Privilege

RedRum OG said:
I find it interesting what privilege people choose to leave out to suit their narrative

What about able bodied privilege, modernized country privilege, mental health privilege, socioeconomic and financial privilege, age privileges... etc

If you are a black lesbian woman... who lives in the usa, young, with no mental or physical illness, in a decent neighborhood, damn right you still got a fuckload of privilege. Dont talk to me about mine while ignoring yours.

But no, it's always gender, sexuality, race. Apparently those are the only attributes that matter to a lot of people. I find that money trumps all. You think the rich white guys running the world would rather let a poor straight white guy in their club, than a multi billionaire asian woman, for example? Hell no.
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Those are all really good points. You're right, what things get focus at a given time can be quite arbitrary.
 
JessFR said:
Those are all really good points. You're right, what things get focus at a given time can be quite arbitrary.
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It seems certain types of people pick ones that suit a "this is why my life sucks, not me" narrative

I'm sure I've had lots of benefits from being a white man. I've also had nurse, doctors, and cops be A-okay with me dying from medical neglect because I'm a drug addict. It's a complicated world. It's not as simple as privileged and not privileged. Being alive is a privilege, so right there, it becomes more complex.

Some people have endured more societal bologna for no real reason, and that's important to acknowledge, but if you only focus on the "groups" you "belong" to, you become a part of the problem, not the solution. For example, so few black rights groups concentrate on helping Latinos, even though they face many of the same difficulties. It's better than not helping anybody, but we need to all grow together.

If the phrase "improved quality of life" were used instead, I think I would be different. Pay less attention to who we need to blame. "You're privileged" has become a dirty phrase, almost like an insult. Its ignorant, and naive as hell, and I hate it.
 
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JessFR said:
Google says that videos from 2018. Nothing to do with the capital. :p
thegrio.com

White Florida doctor complained cops treated him ‘like a Black person’ to make a statement

Jeffrey Epstein, of Lakeland, Fla., told cops, "If you're going to do this to a white doctor...for doing nothing, then why would Black people trust you?"
thegrio.com
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Yeah, well - I wouldn't take anything posted on Twitter too seriously.
Male, you better check out these things better in the future.
Good job.
 
I read that too which is why I posted it here and not in one of the Trump threads. The video stands by itself and makes the point unrelated to the capitol riots.
 
The problem with all this focus on the left on"White Privilege" is that its race based and not nuanced enough. The privileges (I prefer to call them advantages because the term privileged has been so poisoned and politicized no) that really count are being born in a higher income bracket and being born with both parents,t hings like that. The problem is that a black person is less likely to be born into those things. Asians are more likely than white people to have those advantages, which some lefties just write off as white supremacy using the asian and letting them get to that point. I don't buy that and i've never seen evidence of that. The focus on race is toxic and it distracts from what I think we should be focused on which is behavior and how you raise your children. Like I think black people beat their kids more than any other group (except Native Americans but they don't tend to live in clusters in urban areas where the violence is highest because of the money to be made by drugs etc and their population # is minuscule) and that often they are beaten by their mother, because dad isn't around, and I can't imagine how emasculating that would be for a young boy coming into puberty. Violence inflicted on a child is highly correlated to violence the child commits when they are adults. This is a fact and then conservatives scratch their heads and wonder why young black males are so violent compared to other groups in the same demographic and liberals won't even bring it up and some lefties will call you racist for bringing it up. Politics can be such a mess. I really think that the differences in the rates of violence between races can be rooted in higher incidence of child abuse in the adolescence of the individuals. Something I would very much like to see studied. Also FUCK the drug war. I went off on a tangent but thats my two cents. Please check out my link showing abuse statistics by race and look into it more: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254857/child-abuse-rate-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity/
 
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keseyhitchens said:
. Like black people beat their kids more than any other group and often they are beaten by their mother, because dad isn't around, and I can't imagine how emasculating that would be for a young boy coming into puberty.
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This is incorrect. Black people do not beat their children more than any other group in the US. There are no statistics available on ‘beating’ by racial group available from which to draw such a conclusion. However there are statistics available on ‘child abuse’ which indicate it occurs more in Native Americans than any other group. You can find these statistics here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254857/child-abuse-rate-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity/

It is worth noting that these statistics are compiled state by state from cases that reach Child Services and that they cover all forms of abuse including neglect at one end and sexual assault on the other. Beating is not singled out anywhere.

The other thing about these statistics is that certain parts of the population are more likely to come to the attention of Child Services than others. As is the case with policing. Lower income families, families of ex-prisoners, families on welfare, families making use of other state services such as domestic violence or substance abuse help are all statistically far more likely to come to the attention of Child Services and therefore enter these statistics. Furthermore, each of these variables could be a contributing factor over and above race (although race may underpin these variables up to point - such as likelihood of being a prisoner - but even that can be explained by overpolicing and other factors besides race).

As such, they are not representative of child abuse in the US as a whole. For example, it is quite possible that middle class white fathers or mothers could be belting, slapping, or otherwise physically disciplining their children at a higher rate than other races. It simply would not appear in the statistics.
 
Atelier3 said:
This is incorrect. Black people do not beat their children more than any other group in the US. There are no statistics available on ‘beating’ by racial group available from which to draw such a conclusion. However there are statistics available on ‘child abuse’ which indicate it occurs more in Native Americans than any other group. You can find these statistics here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254857/child-abuse-rate-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity/

It is worth noting that these statistics are compiled state by state from cases that reach Child Services and that they cover all forms of abuse including neglect at one end and sexual assault on the other. Beating is not singled out anywhere.

The other thing about these statistics is that certain parts of the population are more likely to come to the attention of Child Services than others. As is the case with policing. Lower income families, families of ex-prisoners, families on welfare, families making use of other state services such as domestic violence or substance abuse help are all statistically far more likely to come to the attention of Child Services and therefore enter these statistics. Furthermore, each of these variables could be a contributing factor over and above race (although race may underpin these variables up to point - such as likelihood of being a prisoner - but even that can be explained by overpolicing and other factors besides race).

As such, they are not representative of child abuse in the US as a whole. For example, it is quite possible that middle class white fathers or mothers could be belting, slapping, or otherwise physically disciplining their children at a higher rate than other races. It simply would not appear in the statistics.
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"As such, they are not representative of child abuse in the US as a whole. For example, it is quite possible that middle class white fathers or mothers could be belting, slapping, or otherwise physically disciplining their children at a higher rate than other races. It simply would not appear in the statistics." - This makes no sense to me, this would be the group that precisely would go to CPS to report their parents because it isn't an accepting thing how it is in black households. An anecdote is look at most every black comedian, they always make a joke about being beaten by their mom or dad when they are a kid.

"This is incorrect. Black people do not beat their children more than any other group in the US. There are no statistics available on ‘beating’ by racial group available from which to draw such a conclusion. However there are statistics available on ‘child abuse’ which indicate it occurs more in Native Americans than any other group. You can find these statistics here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254857/child-abuse-rate-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity/" - you are simply wrong about this. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22364062/

"The other thing about these statistics is that certain parts of the population are more likely to come to the attention of Child Services than others. As is the case with policing. Lower income families, families of ex-prisoners, families on welfare, families making use of other state services such as domestic violence or substance abuse help are all statistically far more likely to come to the attention of Child Services and therefore enter these statistics. Furthermore, each of these variables could be a contributing factor over and above race (although race may underpin these variables up to point - such as likelihood of being a prisoner - but even that can be explained by over policing and other factors besides race)." - I'd argue that a child would be more likely to report the closer they live to an urban area and black people are one, if not the most, urbanized races in terms of where they live. Whites are far more rural.

Unfortunately your argument doesn't stand. You talk about how it is "quite possible" that middle class whites or whites in generally could be physically abusing there kids more. Well the data isn't on your side and your argument is a "what if" and the gaps aren't small enough for me to believe that its just a margin of error due to unreported.

Finally, I brought the physical abuse of blacks up to postulate a reason why young black adults are more violent then other races. If you don't accept my arguments and the data then what would be a reason you would suggest why they are the more violent then any other racial group? Also I appreciate the civility of this discussion, we are discussing racial differences and that can get nasty so I'm grateful you arent assuming I have bad motives in bringing this up.
 
Dropperneck said:
Idpol is just so disturbing to me because it’s mostly echoed by the establishment as a way to divide the middle class. Most of us that are anti establishment are completely fine with trans folks, we ever have friends that are trans.
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really? That would be news to 90% of Trump supporters who still think every trans person wants to rape their children in a public restroom.
 
Dropperneck said:
Idpol is just so disturbing to me because it’s mostly echoed by the establishment as a way to divide the middle class. Most of us that are anti establishment are completely fine with trans folks, we ever have friends that are trans.
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Class and its subsets had and will always matter more than categories of human divided by skin color. Religion has its hand in this too, in dividing people.
 
Religion was over taken by virtue signaling on the internet long ago, as far as influence goes. The entirety of the establishment pushes idpol in every institution in anyway possible, not religion. They used to use religion as a way to divide, but now not so much. Look at the Pope, he even pushes their talking points. I don’t know how you pro establishment folks do it tbh
The few trans friends I have online think the same way I do for the most part, though I’m assuming they are outliers, but maybe not. I like to look at people as individuals and judge them by the content of their character. Judging people by their immutable difference is wrong regardless of if it’s socially acceptable to do so.
 
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mal3volent said:
90% of Trump supporters who still think every trans person wants to rape their children in a public restroom.
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I don't know if you say stuff like this intentionally to just stir up division or if this is really your perspective, but it seems crazy to me. Surely you don't think 90% of Trump fan's believe every trans person wants to rape their child?!?
 
keseyhitchens said:
"As such, they are not representative of child abuse in the US as a whole. For example, it is quite possible that middle class white fathers or mothers could be belting, slapping, or otherwise physically disciplining their children at a higher rate than other races. It simply would not appear in the statistics." - This makes no sense to me, this would be the group that precisely would go to CPS to report their parents because it isn't an accepting thing how it is in black households. An anecdote is look at most every black comedian, they always make a joke about being beaten by their mom or dad when they are a kid.

"This is incorrect. Black people do not beat their children more than any other group in the US. There are no statistics available on ‘beating’ by racial group available from which to draw such a conclusion. However there are statistics available on ‘child abuse’ which indicate it occurs more in Native Americans than any other group. You can find these statistics here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254857/child-abuse-rate-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity/" - you are simply wrong about this. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22364062/

"The other thing about these statistics is that certain parts of the population are more likely to come to the attention of Child Services than others. As is the case with policing. Lower income families, families of ex-prisoners, families on welfare, families making use of other state services such as domestic violence or substance abuse help are all statistically far more likely to come to the attention of Child Services and therefore enter these statistics. Furthermore, each of these variables could be a contributing factor over and above race (although race may underpin these variables up to point - such as likelihood of being a prisoner - but even that can be explained by over policing and other factors besides race)." - I'd argue that a child would be more likely to report the closer they live to an urban area and black people are one, if not the most, urbanized races in terms of where they live. Whites are far more rural.

Unfortunately your argument doesn't stand. You talk about how it is "quite possible" that middle class whites or whites in generally could be physically abusing there kids more. Well the data isn't on your side and your argument is a "what if" and the gaps aren't small enough for me to believe that its just a margin of error due to unreported.

Finally, I brought the physical abuse of blacks up to postulate a reason why young black adults are more violent then other races. If you don't accept my arguments and the data then what would be a reason you would suggest why they are the more violent then any other racial group? Also I appreciate the civility of this discussion, we are discussing racial differences and that can get nasty so I'm grateful you arent assuming I have bad motives in bringing this up.
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I never assume people have bad motives but I do note there is, generally speaking, a type of post in CEPS just determined to prove that whites are more civilised than blacks.

In the main, whenever you dig into statistics like these you find that socio-economic class is just as likely to be the main determining factor as race is. Furthermore all these social phenomena are so-called ‘wicked problems’ that do not have a single causative variable.

In any case the pubmed article you cited is based on 2009 data. The statistics I cited are from 2019. I think both data sets could be made to tell a different story if you controlled for socio-economic status.

I would expect minimal variance in child abuse between ethnic groups in the same class/educationap level, with incidences of abuse involving CPS decreasing as income and education rise for all ethnic groups.

I think you make a rookie error (no offence) trying to extrapolate from CPS cases to the US population as a whole. I don’t know how that system works, but if it like the welfare services in Australia it would draw the majority of its cases from low socio-economic groups.
 
"These days straight white men are the most oppressed group" - my dad.
I've had loooooooong discussions with him since then and now he knows that pretty much the opposite is true,

I don't like the word "privilege" because straight cis white men are treated better by society. When people say "white privilege" it puts the blame on each white individual as though they are the root of the problem. Straight white cis guys didn't chose to be born that way either. It is society's fault.
 
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