Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread

[deficiT]

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." -Malcolm X

 

[cduggles]

I'd rather white people continue to reign dominant, there, and everywhere

White people aren’t dominant everywhere.

I’ve lived in places where white people are a maligned minority and it’s hilarious to see them experience racism from above. It’s very disorienting for them.

Lincoln was right

Lincoln said things that were expedient, and Lincoln was a politician. And he ended slavery, so in that sense he was definitely right.

I wanna point out that just because a baby shows a racial bias, doesn't mean an adult has the same degree of racial recognition.

There's a lot of abilities and behaviors babies exhibit that humans lose over time or stop doing because of learned behaviors.

Yes, there are overriding mechanisms, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, but the first instinct is to notice difference and have a preference for what is familiar.
I think it is important that overriding mechanisms can exist, but I also think it’s important to recognize that implicit racial bias exists as a visceral reaction. It makes being conscientious all the more important.

 

[deficiT]

There are many problems with what you've said here.

Where are the rich black people back in Africa?

Privilege doesn't - cannot - include what the British had in their possession before interacting with a particular country. It should (if it exists at all) work like divorce. But then how do you work it out? We can't give them everything. If they were never enslaved in the first place, would they have more now?

Slavery is bad, obviously. I'm not a racist. But slavery being a bad thing doesn't make something else something that it isn't.

I do not believe African American communities are poor because they are still suffering from slavery. I don't think that is the driving force. Most Americans don't inherit a lot of money. White people aren't living on money that is being passed down generation after generation. Most of us aren't, anyway. The internal economies of African American communities has changed massively over the past century.



What is convenient?

You're too high to be on BL if you actually believe that African Americans aren't still overcoming the effects of slavery and Jim Crow, not to mention the very real and present effects of mass incarceration.

Sure, maybe not a huge amount of people are living off of an inheritance, but guaranteed it's proportionally more white folks.

You forget that education and material conditions are also a major driving force in determining ones future success.

What exactly makes you people so uncomfortable that people are seeking racial justice? You say you're not a racist, and I'm sure you don't treat people poorly due to the color of their skin. But you completely misunderstand that racism is predicated on socioeconomic and systemic conditions, not just how people treat each other on an individual basis.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

What exactly makes you people

You people?!?
How dare you!

BLM doesn't bother me because it represents people seeking racial justice. It bothers me because it is another tear in the fabric of sense and logic. It is another conversation that people insist on having dishonestly and projecting all sorts of nonsense onto.

you completely misunderstand that racism is predicated on socioeconomic and systemic conditions

I don't misunderstand anything. It is probably going to be harder, on average, being black in the US. I get that. Some of it (I'd argue not that much) has to do with inheritance, but it is mostly a result of internal problems in African American communities (like single parenthood rates) that can't rightly be attributed to systemic racism from the white population because the situation is getting worse not better. Most problems in the world - basically all of them - are best solved by working internally. I believe there is opportunity to excel against the odds in the US. More so than in Africa. Blaming white people for black problems doesn't get rid of the black problems. It is victimhood and racist and a waste of time.

You're too high to be on BL if you actually believe that African Americans aren't still overcoming the effects of slavery and Jim Crow, not to mention the very real and present effects of mass incarceration.

Show me the happy and wealthy people they would be without slavery. Show me a comparison between average lifestyles and average wealth in Africa vs America. Mass incarceration is a problem, but I don't assume it helps to view it as a racial problem.

I’ve lived in places where white people are a maligned minority and it’s hilarious to see them experience racism from above. It’s very disorienting for them.

I experienced this from an early age, growing up as a white kid in Asia.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@What 23

White people in countries they live in, that are destinations for the peoples world, are on trajectory to becoming minorities. Yes, that amounts to an attack, even if not personal- An invasive plant doesn't really have the plants that it crowds out in mind, when it just likes the fertile ground. Unabashed, yes, I'd rather white people continue to reign dominant, there, and everywhere, and I don't think they need to be "accountable" to these others, if not themselves...

I'd like to think the human race outgrows the idea of race literally and figuratively. I can't imagine being "white" is still a thing in half a million years, so what's the point? I've never been as opposed to changes in cultural identity as other people. If someone invades this country, I'm not going to die fighting them. I think part of this comes from living all over the world.

White is meaningless.

Lincoln was right

Lincoln was a racist cuck. He abolished slavery because he existed in that time and place.

I don't think any of this justifies "being mean" to others.

This is a hugely important thing that is constantly brushed over in conversations about so-called white supremacy. I see a lot more hatred coming from anti-racist BLM type rallies than anything I've ever seen from the other side.

 

[deficiT]

You people meaning you and others in the thread that have some problem with BLM.

BLM isn't dishonest. It's a group of people defending themselves from the armed and violent wing of the State. It's not about blaming white people and that's what you don't understand.

Quit being disingenuous, you know that comparison doesn't work due to the difference in socioeconomic factors. Numerous books have been written about racism in America. I didn't write them, it's up to you to educate yourself.

"I experienced this..." ... and there we have it. It's racist and bad when people are mean to the white kid in Asia, but the very real and documented experience of African Americans is logically inconsistent. We've gotten to the bottom of it everyone can go home now.

 

[deficiT]

@What 23



I'd like to think the human race outgrows the idea of race literally and figuratively. I can't imagine being "white" is still a thing in half a million years, so what's the point? I've never been as opposed to changes in cultural identity as other people. If someone invades this country, I'm not going to die fighting them. I think part of this comes from living all over the world.

White is meaningless.



Lincoln was a racist cuck. He abolished slavery because he existed in that time and place.



This is a hugely important thing that is constantly brushed over in conversations about so-called white supremacy. I see a lot more hatred coming from anti-racist BLM type rallies than anything I've ever seen from the other side.

Oh really when was the last rally you went to?

 

[AutoTripper]

I can't imagine being "white" is still a thing in half a million years,

Gosh, you’re really giving us that long? Maybe I should get back to the bookies and try and cancel my other 2 bets. One was 12 months, the other was about 45 years, in some iteration of human form and being.

But, you never know. I try to look on the bright side, but we also have to be realistic right?

 

[birdup.snaildown]

BLM isn't dishonest.

It's not possible for BLM to be honest or dishonest.

It's a group of people defending themselves from the armed and violent wing of the State. It's not about blaming white people and that's what you don't understand.

Do I have to bother posting stuff that directly contradicts this... because we both know it exists and I have better things to do?

Quit being disingenuous, you know that comparison doesn't work due to the difference in socioeconomic factors. Numerous books have been written about racism in America. I didn't write them, it's up to you to educate yourself.

I'm well educated. That's not an argument. If you'd like to make an argument, I look forward to the opportunity to respond to it.

"I experienced this..." ... and there we have it. It's racist and bad when people are mean to the white kid in Asia, but the very real and documented experience of African Americans is logically inconsistent. We've gotten to the bottom of it everyone can go home now.

I don't understand what you're saying here. I never said racism doesn't exist. Being a white kid in Asia is different (I think it's easier) because I spoke a different language. It wasn't my country. I was a foreigner. You said "the very real and documented experience of African Americans is logically inconsistent". Are you paraphrasing me? When did I say that?

I honestly think you're a bit triggered. This is (like I said) what bothers me about BLM. People can't seem to have a sensible discussion. You seem to be reading things I'm not writing.

 

[AutoTripper]

BLM doesn't bother me because it represents people seeking racial justice. It bothers me because it is another tear in the fabric of sense and logic. It is another conversation that people insist on having dishonestly and projecting all sorts of nonsense onto.

I’m actually with you on this mostly, though I haven’t given it much thought, and politics in general is not my topic of knowledge at all.

The BLM thing is just a political coup, stirred up by the few, to laugh at the so many squabbling, feuding over identity.

Every soccer player kneeling in pride, eyes watering, before every game. Convinced that they are performing a sacred act, in support of the higher cause. Unwitting as can be. I bet they have a right good chuckle at that as well, these crafty string pullers.

Lewis Hamilton takes it up a level further. BLM has become his RELIGION! I’m not even joking, though I doubt he has realised it.

I’m not racist, prejudiced. All lives matter, plain and simple. It’s opportunism, and clever too, instigating this mass wave of hysterical outrage and protest at this time.

It’s not about the cause, but the reason they instigate such fiascos. It’s all about control ultimately, any which cunning way.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Oh really when was the last rally you went to?

I socialize with numerous people who are very high up in terms of organizing major rallies in different countries. The sort of people who pride themselves on getting arrested as a rite of passage. There are way more far-left people in my life than far-right people.

Keep in mind: you're on an internet forum and you don't know me.

 

[deficiT]

It's not possible for BLM to be honest or dishonest.



Do I have to bother posting stuff that directly contradicts this... because we both know it exists and I have better things to do?



I'm well educated. That's not an argument. If you'd like to make an argument, I look forward to the opportunity to respond to it.



I don't understand what you're saying here. I never said racism doesn't exist. Being a white kid in Asia is different (I think it's easier) because I spoke a different language. It wasn't my country. I was a foreigner. You said "the very real and documented experience of African Americans is logically inconsistent". Are you paraphrasing me? When did I say that?

I honestly think you're a bit triggered. This is (like I said) what bothers me about BLM. People can't seem to have a sensible discussion. You seem to be reading things I'm not writing.

"BLM doesn't bother me because it represents people seeking racial justice. It bothers me because it is another tear in the fabric of sense and logic. It is another conversation that people insist on having dishonestly and projecting all sorts of nonsense onto." Your words first
"It's not possible for BLM to be honest or dishonest." Your words second.

Again you are just being disingenuous, I am not calling you racist or implying you haven't experienced something difficult in your situation.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

If race is a conversation I believe many people insist on having dishonestly that doesn't make race dishonest.

you are just being disingenuous

No, you are poorly stitching together strawman arguments.

 

[deficiT]

I socialize with numerous people who are very high up in terms of organizing major rallies in different countries. The sort of people who pride themselves on getting arrested as a rite of passage. There are way more far-left people in my life than far-right people.

Keep in mind: you're on an internet forum and you don't know me.

Exactly, we're on the internet you can say any random thing you like.

It's alright we'll pick this up next time I get triggered.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Gosh, you’re really giving us that long?

Climate change isn't going to kill us. It might destroy the entire planet, but - by the time that happens - it is pretty likely we will be able to exist beyond Earth. Technology is a threat to our survival, maybe, but it is also the best chance we have at ensuring our survival long-term.

I want humans to survive. At the expense of everything else. People are the most extraordinary animal in the Earth Zoo, by far. We lived through an ice age 30,000 years ago with no technology or coordination. I don't see anything stopping us.

Climate Change combined with COVID has left me feeling safe that we know what we're doing. I totally get that people have different reactions, but (for me) the world seems like it is actually kind of in sync. We're working together on a global scale.

The COVID vaccine movement has been kind of amazing, really.

We're also less and less likely to engage in wide scale war, I think. The major players are so powerful and have so much invested that it's only a game you play if you know you can win.

If we survive a thousand years, maybe we survive till the end of the universe.

 

[deficiT]

Climate change isn't going to kill us. It might destroy the entire planet, but - by the time that happens - it is pretty likely we will be able to exist beyond Earth. Technology is a threat to our survival, maybe, but it is also the best chance we have at ensuring our survival long-term.

I want humans to survive. At the expense of everything else. People are the most extraordinary animal in the Earth Zoo, by far. We lived through an ice age 30,000 years ago with no technology or coordination. I don't see anything stopping us.

Climate Change combined with COVID has left me feeling safe that we know what we're doing. I totally get that people have different reactions, but (for me) the world seems like it is actually kind of in sync. We're working together on a global scale.

The COVID vaccine movement has been kind of amazing, really.

We're also less and less likely to engage in wide scale war, I think. The major players are so powerful and have so much invested that it's only a game you play if you know you can win.

If we survive a thousand years, maybe we survive till the end of the universe.

Can't believe I spent time arguing with you and not the dude comparing humans to invasive plant species further up the thread.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

hindsight is 2020

 

[AutoTripper]

Climate change isn't going to kill us.

Yes, I am really not the least bit concerned about climate change. More hoax, disinformation, spiel.

Weather modification is real, been going on eons, I’ve seen it.
We are permanently lied to and deceived on the grandest level possible.

My concern is simply with the egomaniacs and their drive and bid for planet wide control, continued mass poisoning operation of humanity and the globe, and the rest, messing up either the human race’s chance of survival by meddling with us, or by meddling with the planet.

Things advance fast.

But I do hold hope. Nothing is certain. It’s more exciting to me than scary. As long as we aren’t just effectively one gigantic crop of crickets for some alien race to harvest, I’ll make my peace with whatever comes along.

 

[burn out]

If race is a conversation I believe many people insist on having dishonestly that doesn't make race dishonest.



No, you are poorly stitching together strawman arguments.

Yes, it's a conversation people insist on having dishonestly. I'm not sure if you've seen the results of this new survey: https://nypost.com/2021/02/27/cases-of-police-brutality-against-black-people-are-overestimated/ which finds that people across the political spectrum vastly over estimate the amount of unarmed black men killed by police.

Of course there are many well meaning people who support BLM, but well meaning but misinformed people can do a lot of damage.

 

[JessFR]

You're too high to be on BL

I wanna be able to tell people they're not high enough to be on bluelight. :D

Climate change isn't going to kill us. It might destroy the entire planet, but - by the time that happens - it is pretty likely we will be able to exist beyond Earth.

That's not likely at all.

Just because Hollywood makes it look easy doesn't make it so. Far from it, it might literally be impossible.