Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
america will never be the best its a fucking shit hole full of poverty the worst western nation there is.
Global Politics China Discussion
- Thread starter Wilson Wilson
- Start date
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
That shit hole put humans on the moon.
Alas then we let our education system get so bad that a lot of Americans refuse to believe the earth is round or that the moon landing happened.
America's a land of extremes.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Depends a bit on how you measure ‘greatest’. History also shows that all democracies have inevitably collapsed into long periods of illiberalism. Arguably brought about by their own liberalism and/or corruption. A major exception being England/Britain/United Kingdom which seems to have generally always had the balance right between freedom and unfreedom. The US does not seem to have the same capacity for self-adjustment. Time will tell. Australia has inherited most of the pluralistic characteristics of the UK that have allowed it to adapt so I expect it will survive as a democracy unless invaded.
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
I used to hate a lot of the things that made Australia or the UK different to the US. Over the last few years I've had a major change of heart and am starting to feel like they have the right idea.
I just mention that cause you were talking about the balance of freedom. I used to hate that Australia's free speech wasn't stricter, that it was less obsessed with individual rights at all cost.
I've started changing my mind though.
This said, dictatorships are unstable in the long run too. Ultimately once the people get sick of it they start fighting. The dictatorship attacks back and makes the people even more fed up and fight harder. Till finally it collapses.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I think Australia has always done a great job of managing towards the centre in all aspects of politics. Basically it has seen itself as having an aspirational working class and a solid middle class and done its best at a politics that looks after the interests of those two groups which make up the vast majority of the population. The culture reinforces this by both expecting people to be aspirational and frowning on people who get too big for their boots. The tax/welfare system has traditionally supported that culture with big investments in public health and education that helps the aspirational funded primarily by the very rich (top 10 % of income earners in AUstralia pay 60 % of all tax).
Despite attempts to create polarising fractures in politics - whether that be the communists in the 1950s or the One Nation type in the last 20 years - the system inevitably squeezes them out and heads back to centre. It remains to be seen whether social media has fucked that system up for good.
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Yeah. Ugh god I fucking hate social media.
Another good thing I'll say about Australia, historically Australian government has handled crises very well. Often acting like a bit of a joke 99% of the time, but when things really get bad, usually they're one of the better governments about handling a crisis like adults.
It's sad, at one time the internet seemed like this wonderful thing that would be the best thing to ever happen to man kind. Now it's really looking more like the reverse. And the poison of social media seems like a big part of that.
People are just too easily manipulated.
I also find it a little annoying how many people agree with how bad social media is, BUT STILL USE IT. Stop using it!
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I have one IG account to share my b&w analog art photos and another combined FB/IG account I use purely to stay connected to colleagues who live overseas. Other than that I stick well clear of it. I have subscriptions to a couple of long-established newspapers/journals. Some left-leaning. Some right-leaning. That’s how I stay in the loop about what matters.
And CEPS of course.
Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
Socialism, nationalism and pro-imperialism? Can't have it all.
Goes in line with your other 'morals'
Anti China propaganda doing its work.
Less ego-tripping, and more self reflection would [be] good.
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
That’s one way to de-rail a reasonably good discussion - throw in a three-banger random ad-hominem sledge!
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Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
Yeah true... but it all ties in together, a misguided feel of moral superiority, which is hilarious when you look at the last 100 years of Western countries. It annoys the fuck out of me. And it's completely beyond me how people keep falling in this AAARGH CHINA EVIL trap. Or was it Trump, or Russia?? At least China is sneaky about their business, throw some money around and don't go destroying countries with sanctions, bombs and by inciting insurgence
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I guess it depends on where you’re moral starting point is. On one side you have the primacy and sanctity of the individual which gave rise to the rights-based culture of the West. On the other you have a bunch of other systems which place the emphasis on the social whole rather than any of the individual parts. Philosophically they can be a bit chalk and cheese with either side not understanding the moral world-view of the other and each regarding the other as less virtuous. By Western standards @JessFR expresses a very reasonable and justifiable position.
However, you can’t just condemn the West because it judges foreign political and socio-cultural systems on moral grounds. Chinese rhetoric in its own media is overflowing with claims about these inferior values of the West and the righteousness of global communo-Sinification as a real and valid alternative to Western liberal democracy.
Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
I look at actions, what I see is the US, NATO and whoever stirring up shit everywhere that is 'justified' because CHINA, RUSSIA whatever. Imo they're all at least equally morally reprehensible. Media plays right into it. And ultimately China has long surpassed the Western world, and instead of trying to keep up 'we' are seemingly stuck in habits dating back to the cold war.
I will not be defending China, and I also don't want to live there, but I strongly believe people need to get off their high horse. Countries can't be condemning the one thing, and doing the other yourself and still claim that you're morally superior. Except that's what seemingly everyone does, I get that it's hard when being bombarded with sometimes questionable China horror stories, but I expect some critical thinking when constantly proclaiming that others are dumb.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
Let’s stick to arguments rather than personal attacks. Thanks.
SvnLyrBrto
Bluelighter
Yeah, that one really pisses me off. That was fifty years ago, we've done little more than dick around in low earth orbit since, and now we have better than 70-million of the population who think any science or engineering that does not cater to their preconceived notions are hoaxes invented by China, Democrats, or Atheists, to hurt the economy or to oppress xtianity or to insult their dear leader.
When I was a little kid, the space shuttles were supposed to be the prototypes for a mass-production run of a fleet of shuttles that was going to be conducting weekly flights to our own space station... no need to beg Russia for help... which was supposed to be the staging ground for a permanent moon base and the manned expeditions to Mars that were supposed to happen no later than 2000. When my parents were kids, it was considered to be perfectly plausible... likely even... that we'd have actually straight-up colonized the moon and would be conducting manned expeditions to Jupiter by 2001. I won't even go into the space exploration and exploitation that Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein were envisioning back in the '50s, before luddites and fear-mongers made the word "nuclear" into a slur.
Forget UBI, loan forgiveness, reparations, welfare, COVID relief, business loans, bailouts, and all that blather. We need to go straight back to the source and pour money into education... LOTS of money into every level of education, and especially college for the STEM fields. We've become a nation of lazy, shortsighted, incurious, unthinking dumbasses; and I'm pretty sure most of our present problems stem from that.
Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
My bad, won't happen again
Continuing on the same trend:
This Is The Pentagon's $27 Billion Master Plan To Deter China In The Pacific
The plans include calls for deploying long-range missiles in the Western Pacific, new missile defenses and sensor networks, and more.
www.thedrive.com
"Precision-strike missiles", hah! Economy in tatters but the warrrr machine running good. Madness.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
China breaching every article in genocide convention, says legal report on Uighurs
Thinktank publishes first non-governmental legal examination of China’s actions in Xinjiang
If China was found to be doing Nazi level genocide.... What would happen?
China is scary nobody really wants to mess with them. And they lie all the time...
For all I know they invented a zombie virus.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
It’s not like they are going to get any weaker as time goes by.China breaching every article in genocide convention, says legal report on Uighurs
Thinktank publishes first non-governmental legal examination of China’s actions in Xinjiangwww.theguardian.com
If China was found to be doing Nazi level genocide.... What would happen?
China is scary nobody really wants to mess with them. And they lie all the time...
For all I know they invented a zombie virus.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Wo hue shou yidiar zhong wen.
Wo de zhong wen ming zi shi Si Bo Tu.
Ni na?
I have always liked asian women.
I'm sorry i know this isn't OT.
Continue.
Wo de zhong wen ming zi shi Si Bo Tu.
Ni na?
I have always liked asian women.
I'm sorry i know this isn't OT.
Continue.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
They are way ahead of the world in quantum computing and quantum communication which is super scary and sounds like a plot to a movie.
