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US Politics The 2021 Former President Trump Thread - I look very much forward to showing my financials, because they are huge.

AutoTripper said:
Serious question here- is it not simply unconstitutional, to impeach a civillian?

Surely the impeachment process is for in role presidents only?
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The president is a civilian, and the president, VP, and any federal officer (like a judge) can be impeached. Trump was already impeached while in office and now he’s being tried.
TripSitterNZ said:
Trump would steal quite a few senate seats with his voter base from the republicans i think it would be the other way around the republican party dies and the trump party becomes the major party vs democrats.
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Trump will primary extremists who might win in the primaries, but not the general. He lost his own election, and Georgia now has two Dem Senators. Trump hasn’t been a reliably winning endorsement in a long time, particularly in general elections.
AutoTripper said:
Thanks for your reply Jess. However I still question whether we actually now this for certain.

I mean surely this is the first time an ex, non president, of effectively civillian status has been under impeachment??

It seems rather odd to me anyway, but I admit I know nothing of US politics.
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It’s the first time a president was impeached as president and then tried after. But if he wasn’t on trial he’d be the first president to be impeached but not put on trial. (Nixon resigned before being impeached, but the House had already voted to authorize impeachment).
TripSitterNZ said:
Im sure at least some sort of trump will become president again by the end of the century. Trump has turned his brand into a powerful political force that will not die out anytime soon.
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His brand is toxic with corporations and many large donors. Money plays a huge role in politics, and Trump will have enough problems of his own. I don’t think the judiciary had even begun to rip him to shreds.
His kids lack his particular appeal.
Maybe a Trumpian candidate could win election, but not a Trump, except maybe Barron?
 
it's clear that a number of republican senators do not care what comes out in the impeachment trial - they have already made their minds up.

i watched a few hours of the trial yesterday and seeing the timeline and the evidence laid out so clearly was pretty shocking to me.

are there any trump supporters here who watched the trial? what did you think (about trump's responsibility for incitement) before the case was laid out? and after?

alasdair
 
Trump could've marched the mob to the Capitol brandishing a torch & leading chants of "hang Mike Pence!" and those ball-less wonders still wouldn't take any action lol. It's his party now
 
AutoTripper said:
Serious question here- is it not simply unconstitutional, to impeach a civillian?

Surely the impeachment process is for in role presidents only?
Click to expand...

He was impeached while still president, it's the trial that is happening now as a civilian. And there is past precedent for doing this in the 1876 impeachment of William Belknap, not a president though, but an elected official. The point is that he has to be held accountable. If he is allowed to escape his consequences just because he did it in the last month of his term, then there is a precedent set for future presidents to be able to do whatever they want in their last month with no fear of the consequences. Also, impeachment serves the secondary function of allowing a vote to bar him from ever running for public office again. This is important, in cases where a president has committed crimes that endanger the democracy. Even if you don't believe Trump did that, you have to allow for impeachment to be allowed in these cases because in the future, there could be a president who does commit crimes against the system who would be immune to the power of the system to hold him accountable.
 

Trump Was Sicker Than Acknowledged With Covid-19​

When he was hospitalized with the coronavirus in October, his blood oxygen levels had plunged and officials feared he was on the verge of being placed on a ventilator.

www.nytimes.com

Trump Was Sicker Than Acknowledged With Covid-19

When he was hospitalized with the coronavirus in October, his blood oxygen levels had plunged and officials feared he was on the verge of being placed on a ventilator.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON — President Donald J. Trump was sicker with Covid-19 in October than publicly acknowledged at the time, with extremely depressed blood oxygen levels at one point and a lung problem associated with pneumonia caused by the coronavirus, according to four people familiar with his condition.

His prognosis became so worrisome before he was taken to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center that officials believed he would need to be put on a ventilator, two of the people familiar with his condition said.

The people familiar with Mr. Trump’s health said he was found to have lung infiltrates, which occur when the lungs are inflamed and contain substances such as fluid or bacteria. Their presence, especially when a patient is exhibiting other symptoms, can be a sign of an acute case of the disease. They can be easily spotted on an X-ray or scan, when parts of the lungs appear opaque, or white.

Mr. Trump’s blood oxygen level alone was cause for extreme concern, dipping into the 80s, according to the people familiar with his evaluation. The disease is considered severe when the blood oxygen level falls to the low 90s.

--------------

The most transparent Presidency of all time, by far!
 
mal3volent said:

Trump Was Sicker Than Acknowledged With Covid-19​

When he was hospitalized with the coronavirus in October, his blood oxygen levels had plunged and officials feared he was on the verge of being placed on a ventilator.

www.nytimes.com

Trump Was Sicker Than Acknowledged With Covid-19

When he was hospitalized with the coronavirus in October, his blood oxygen levels had plunged and officials feared he was on the verge of being placed on a ventilator.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON — President Donald J. Trump was sicker with Covid-19 in October than publicly acknowledged at the time, with extremely depressed blood oxygen levels at one point and a lung problem associated with pneumonia caused by the coronavirus, according to four people familiar with his condition.

His prognosis became so worrisome before he was taken to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center that officials believed he would need to be put on a ventilator, two of the people familiar with his condition said.

The people familiar with Mr. Trump’s health said he was found to have lung infiltrates, which occur when the lungs are inflamed and contain substances such as fluid or bacteria. Their presence, especially when a patient is exhibiting other symptoms, can be a sign of an acute case of the disease. They can be easily spotted on an X-ray or scan, when parts of the lungs appear opaque, or white.

Mr. Trump’s blood oxygen level alone was cause for extreme concern, dipping into the 80s, according to the people familiar with his evaluation. The disease is considered severe when the blood oxygen level falls to the low 90s.
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@mal3volent I literally had that article up to post. You are speedy.
 
I remember thinking something along these lines when Mark Meadows answered the reporter with what seemed like actual truth and legitimate concern for Trump prior to being taken to Walter Reed.
 
The second impeachment of Donald Trump is the lowest point for the democrats in a long time. A politically motivated move executed under false pretences during a time when there are actually really important issues that should be focused on.

The democrats are trying to ensure that Trump isn't democratically elected in 2024. Maybe they should just let the people decide... Wait, this all sounds weirdly familiar. Who was it again that was accused of sabotaging the democratic electoral process?

The BLM movement has been endorsed by all sorts of politicians, in many countries around the world. But - somehow - they aren't guilty of inciting violence.

As usual, it's all total utter bullshit and the democrats are fucking hypocrites pushing their own agenda under the guise of justice.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
The second impeachment of Donald Trump is the lowest point for the democrats in a long time. A politically motivated move executed under false pretences during a time when there are actually really important issues that should be focused on.

The democrats are trying to ensure that Trump isn't democratically elected in 2024. Maybe they should just let the people decide... Wait, this all sounds weirdly familiar. Who was it again that was accused of sabotaging the democratic electoral process?

The BLM movement has been endorsed by all sorts of politicians, in many countries around the world. But - somehow - they aren't guilty of inciting violence.

As usual, it's all total utter bullshit and the democrats are fucking hypocrites pushing their own agenda under the guise of justice.
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A politically motivated move? Absolute 100% I agree.

False pretenses though? Yea I don't see it. Trump is directly responsible for the capital attack, his actions caused it and it was foreseeable.

Nice to see you back though, first cfc now you, hopefully it's the start of a bunch of awesome bluelighter returns.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
executed under false pretences
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sure. that is one opinion, and certainly one to which you are entitled.

another is that the president laid the groundwork for these events by egregiously lying that the election was stolen as a result of large-scale voter fraud. a lie that has been utterly and thporoughly debunked by courts across the land the trump administration's own juctice department. he then incited a large crowed, fueled by his baseless lies, to march on the capitol and "fight like hell". and fight they did, many saying they fought because they felt they were following trump's direct orders. a fight in which 5 citizens - one of whom was a capitol police officer (blue lives matter?) - lost their lives.

mileage varies.

alasdair
 
So much for impartial jurors.Three Republican Senators met with Trump’s impeachment lawyers on Thursday evening to discuss strategy.

Senators Ted Cruz of Texas, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Mike Lee of Utah were seen meeting privately with Trump's attorneys on Thursday evening, hours after the House impeachment managers wrapped up their presentation.
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www.newsweek.com

Cruz, Graham and Lee "reinforced" Trump lawyers' defense strategy in meeting, Jason Miller says

"I would say that most of the points that the senators were raising we have in our presentations and we have in our arguments," said Jason Miller.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Let's keep in mind that the senators are only juror-like.

They're not jurors, and this isn't a court. They aren't obligated to be impartial.

Hell, real jurors aren't obligated to be impartial, they can nullify for any reason they like. My point is though the rules are a lot more relaxed here, both in the sense that convictions can happen in circumstances that would be virtually impossible on court, as well as the opposite.

What we really need are actual proper criminal charges.

We don't have to worry about trump being reelected once he's in jail where he belongs. :P
 
alasdairm said:
sure. that is one opinion, and certainly one to which you are entitled.

another is that the president laid the groundwork for these events by egregiously lying that the election was stolen as a result of large-scale voter fraud. a lie that has been utterly and thporoughly debunked by courts across the land the trump administration's own juctice department. he then incited a large crowed, fueled by his baseless lies, to march on the capitol and "fight like hell". and fight they did, many saying they fought because they felt they were following trump's direct orders. a fight in which 5 citizens - one of whom was a capitol police officer (blue lives matter?) - lost their lives.
Click to expand...

@TheLoveBandit has already responded to everything you said here in far more detail than I could be bothered, but just to recap stuff he already said:

1. They planted pipe bombs the day before the speech. Clearly the speech (in which Trump called for peaceful protest) didn't incite the violence.

2. The time it takes to walk from the speech to the capitol does not support his speech inciting the violence.

3. I don't care if an alien died (green lives matter?) because it has no bearing on whether or not Trump is directly responsible for another person's actions.

...

Nobody lives in a void. We are all influenced by the world around us. You said Trump laid the groundwork. He contributed to it, sure, but the world is complex. The left and the right laid the groundwork. Everybody criticizes Trump for political division in the United States, as if he's solely responsible for it. But, look at left-wing media outlets. Look at comments in this forum.

A couple of months ago TheWizardOfTheCreek said he would be disappointed if there wasn't an act of violence. He called Trump supporters pussies. Is he partly responsible? Is Trey Parker partly responsible?

If you're going to blame Trump for violent rioters, you might as well blame Marilyn Manson and Eminem for violent fans... or blame Rockstar Games for the actions of anyone who's ever played GTA.

alasdairm said:
many saying they fought because they felt they were following trump's direct orders
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They are clearly saying that now because they are facing serious jail time and it is the best defence they have. If I get arrested after beating up a gay guy and claim that I did it because I thought I was following Eminem's direct orders, does that mean he should be prosecuted?

This is an insane witch hunt, following hot on the heels of another insane witch hunt and another one before that.

Calling an election fraudulent doesn't equate to violence. Saying the words "fight like hell" during a speech that called for peaceful protest isn't sufficient either. They planted pipe bombs the day before. You are seeing what you want to see.

Trump fanatics are brainwashed, but Trump haters are too.

At the end of the day, he will be acquitted. Not because of some sort of conspiracy. Not because the republicans are cowards. He will be acquitted because there is insufficient evidence.

I suspect that the republicans who voted against him are pussies, who are afraid their wives won't suck their dick anymore if they don't throw Trump under a bus.
 
Trump is responsible because he was the president and he used his position to rally people, convince them that their country was being stolen and created an environment where violence was inevitable.

He didn't incite them on the day, legally speaking anyway. I've watched what he said on the day and I've never felt very convinced that it meets the legal definition of incitement in and of itself.

But his years of behavior in the lead up created an environment that foreseeably was going to result in this kind of domestic terrorism.

If you're president and you create an environment you know will cause domestic terrorism for your own political gain, you're a traitor to your country and should never hold office again.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
@JessFR

You beat me to it. Teddy isn't doing anything against the rules by meeting with Trump's defence team.
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Thing is it goes both ways. In trumps favor and against.

The same relaxed rules for impeachment that mean they aren't really impartial jurors also means impeachment can be done, and a person can be found guilty, even if they could never be convicted legally.

Of course since impeachment is political it's highly doubtful l trump will be convicted.

Honestly... I'm not even 100% sure his conviction is in the countries best interests. A HUGE part of me would love very much to see him convicted and rendered incapable of holding office.

But... I dunno... We have a huge problem with division in America. And I can't help but wonder if attacking trump, when it's largely going to be a symbolic victory anyway, is really in the countries best interests.

If it's not, much as I might personally want trump to face justice for his actions, the countries best interests are ultimately the higher priority.

I do think Trump deserves to be prevented from holding office again, I think he deserves to be in jail and go down in history as a traitor.

But.. I don't want doing that to further rip the country apart.
 
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