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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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AutoTripper said:
This man is NOT a wild conspiracy theorist, but a genuine, qualified expert in virology etc.
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Having a PHD doesn't make you right about everything. I know highly educated people that are complete fucking morons. Not saying this guy is a moron, but he doesn't negate the opinions of all other doctors in the world.

There are doctors and scientists who believe the world is flat. Most believe the world is round. So, who do you believe? The one that confirms your bias? The one you want to believe?

There are a few climate scientists that don't believe in man-made climate change. Does that mean climate change doesn't exist?

You can always find an "expert" that believes what you want to believe. At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself whether or not you're being selective. You need to ask yourself why you're listening to fringe opinions rather than mainstream opinions. You need to ask yourself why you think the majority of qualified people are wrong.
 
JessFR said:
I already know who Mike yeadon is.

You're too late, my ex BF already inflicted this guy on me earlier this week.

And I'll say what I said to him.

This guy has already made a prediction, that the pandemic in the UK was completely over and herd immunity had been achieved, weeks ago. And infections have skyrocketed since then. And that's just one of several falsifiable arguments he's made that have since been falsified. All he has to say as I recall is "oh its all false positive testing! ". Which doesn't hold up with hospitalizations and other stats.

As I recall he's not an expert in virology. His background as I recall is in chemistry.

And that even if you consider him an expert, there are thousands of others with far better qualifications who say what he's saying is crap.

Except of course the conspiracy theorist hates scientific consensus, once there's consensus that's "the elite". Powerful billionaire... Research scientists one presumes? (except for powerful billionaires like president trump, for some reason he's not the elite)

They like the fringe cranks. The one exception with quasi related credentials they can put up everywhere to appeal to authority.
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Yeadon is unfortunately much closer to the truth than the consensus groupthink experts who you worship and whose utterances you repeat without question. The consensus herd followers defer their critical thinking and questioning because of the consensus, despite the obvious problem that the consensus can easily be manipulated and is wrong just as much as the cranks.

During the recent wave in the England there have been 36k hospitalizations of patients with a positive test result in England but only 8k were suspected COVID-19 ie were admitted for symptoms or syndrome consistent with COVID. Deaths are called as 13,344, but well over half of these deaths are not due to COVID but are death within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test result.
The Hospitals in most areas are under very little pressure and never have been, but the incessant fear mongering is not helping in fact it is killing people, look up the work of Alvina Lai.

Pot kettle with respect to predictions, because a lot of your hysterical predictions on BL fed no doubt by the experts who you feted were orders of magnitude out.

There is simply no comparison to the spring, what is different? The virus is exactly the same..... what could possibly have changed???

At least Mike and Clare are asking the questions, their answers are probably not totally right they keep asking the questions. My question though is what the hell are you doing other than mindlessly regurgitating consensus, which is very disappointing because you give the impression you are much more capable then that.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Having a PHD doesn't make you right about everything. I know highly educated people that are complete fucking morons. Not saying this guy is a moron, but he doesn't negate the opinions of all other doctors in the world.

There are doctors and scientists who believe the world is flat. Most believe the world is round. So, who do you believe? The one that confirms your bias? The one you want to believe?
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First define what you mean by scientist, then show me someone (living) who meets that definition who believes the world is flat, either your definition will be untrue or you are lying. Science is evidence based. Something can be considered a valid hypothesis until it is disproven by evidence, Therefore holding to the opinion that it is flat is being unscientific.

You seem to be confused by consensus opinion versus evidence, doesn't matter who is presenting it, if it is true but is consensus breaking practically every scientist in the world can be wrong even though there was consensus. Science advances one funeral at a time

Where the evidence is unclear then multiple possibilities are still explanations, the idea is to test and disprove alternative hypotheses....using evidence.

By the way it is PhD. Respect is earned.
 
novaveritas said:
Deaths are called as 13,344, but well over half of these deaths are not due to COVID but are death within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test result.
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Deaths in England currently are (allegedly) 49,956. What percentage of these do you think are not caused by COVID, and why?

If there was a conspiracy, how would you know about it?

If there was a conspiracy it would have to involve pretty much all doctors and nurses in the English healthcare system. It doesn't make sense to me that the entire medical industry would conspire to distort statistics about a virus. Do they distort statistics about other viruses, or just the one that restricts your freedoms?

Do you have a credible (non fringe) source that proves the stats are wrong? You're stating it as if it's fact.
 
Gosh, well if I can say at least one thing meaningful, undeniable even- this really is a lost argument here! I should know better by now than to "engage" in lost arguments.

Anybody who fully accepts the mainstream will outright object anything to the contrary.

I do not accept the mainstream 1 tiny %, not because I am a conspiracy theorist, or see what I (do NOT) want to see.

But simply because my eyes are open.

I would not be so daft as to get up early on a saturday, go out and do me some digging, and try to open the eyes of a mole.

That would be a foolish, futile waste of my time and energy, and would likely stress me out in the process.
 
AutoTripper said:
my eyes are not open
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Indeed.

AutoTripper said:
Anybody who fully accepts the mainstream will outright object anything to the contrary.
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I don't blindly accept mainstream opinions. If a compelling argument is presented to me, I will consider it. You are not presenting an argument. Instead, you are telling me that I'm blind. This is what people do when they don't have an argument to present. Prove me wrong.
 
The classic old english proverbial phrase just popped into my mind- Let sleeping dogs lie!

There is meaning to it, which is contextual of course, but these phrases and sayings or even folklore, really do stand the test of time and can be so relevantly and approrpiately applied at times.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Indeed.



I don't blindly accept mainstream opinions. If a compelling argument is presented to me, I will consider it. You are not presenting an argument. Instead, you are telling me that I'm blind. This is what people do when they don't have an argument to present. Prove me wrong.
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Can we just say that putting up youtube videos of people making arguments is not in itself making an argument?

I'm sick of people putting up long YouTube videos, debunking what's said in them, only for them to come back with "well I don't agree with everything they said"/"they said that I didn't", followed immediately by yet another video.

IMO if you're gonna make an argument, YOU should make the argument.
 
AutoTripper said:
The classic old english proverbial phrase just popped into my mind- Let sleeping dogs lie!

There is meaning to it, which is contextual of course, but these phrases and sayings or even folklore, really do stand the test of time and can be so relevantly and approrpiately applied at times.
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At the end of the day, you got nothing.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Indeed.



I don't blindly accept mainstream opinions. If a compelling argument is presented to me, I will consider it. You are not presenting an argument. Instead, you are telling me that I'm blind. This is what people do when they don't have an argument to present. Prove me wrong.
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You got me on that one! Yes, what a daft typo huh? Now edited, but you beat me to it. Never mind, you can have that breadcrumb, take an extra point.

Lucky I don't have too much of an ego (I don't personally believe in the concept of true infinite ego dissolution, while still being mortally carnated, as being a possibility, more of an illusion and ideation, IMO of course, but that is another topic).

Otherwise I suppose I should feel some slight embarassment. But I think I am above that.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Deaths in England currently are (allegedly) 49,956. What percentage of these do you think are not caused by COVID, and why?

If there was a conspiracy, how would you know about it?

If there was a conspiracy it would have to involve pretty much all doctors and nurses in the English healthcare system. It doesn't make sense to me that the entire medical industry would conspire to distort statistics about a virus. Do they distort statistics about other viruses, or just the one that restricts your freedoms?

Do you have a credible (non fringe) source that proves the stats are wrong? You're stating it as if it's fact.
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did I say anything about conspiracy?
Those stats are dead within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test. go check back to the source of the stats and look at the notes.

So given there are 50k deaths within 28 days of a positive test and people can and do die of things other than COVID what percentage do you think? I hear that it is less than 50% dead from COVID and yes that is a consensus opinion, so I don't take it as fact, more an interesting observation.
 
*EDIT: you edited your post after I responded to it so I edited mine accordingly.

novaveritas said:
So given there are 50k deaths within 28 days of a positive test and people can and do die of things other than COVID what percentage do you think?
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I have absolutely no idea and neither do you.

In the worst cases people are sick for much longer than two weeks. If people get COVID and die within four weeks, I would assume that the majority of those deaths are COVID related. You appear to be suggesting otherwise?

Since the majority of deaths are elderly people, it would be odd if they died for unrelated reasons within a short time after contracting a virus that kills elderly people. I don't understand your logic.
 
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AutoTripper said:
You got me on that one! Yes, what a daft typo huh? Now edited, but you beat me to it. Never mind, you can have that breadcrumb, take an extra point.

Lucky I don't have too much of an ego (I don't personally believe in the concept of true infinite ego dissolution, while still being mortally carnated, as being a possibility, more of an illusion and ideation, IMO of course, but that is another topic).

Otherwise I suppose I should feel some slight embarassment. But I think I am above that.
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No need for embarrassment, it was just a typo. I think we all know what you meant to say, even if we might not agree. <3
 
JessFR said:
No need for embarrassment, it was just a typo. I think we all know what you meant to say, even if we might not agree. <3
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Thank you for fair and reasonable sentiment. I really don't like to disagree, argue, fall out, or upset anybody. But really we could go on forever here rhetorically battling with each other. I aim to practise love and comapassion.

I suddenly see myself losing sight of all of that, in such a nitpicky way.
 
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