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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Harm Reduction Guide to shooting.

I would never do #1. Same reason I would never filter with cigarette filters. I'm a junkie and I can't stand the idea that any visible amount of my drugs are being wasted.

Besides the heroin here has historically always been #4.

Morfiend1 said:
I have to disagree, the amount of water used for injection (~1-2ml) cools off very rapidly so injecting too hot solution is not going to be an issue. Even if the solution was too hot, it would be cooled off by blood without any problem due to the low amount.
All the H junkies I've been around always heated their cooker.
I firmly believe this is what kept me from getting infections in the years of IV abuse.
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I really doubt this is the case. I almost never heated my heroin and I didn't get any infections either. I'd say you were just fortunate.

And I had crazy bad shooting habits. Reusing needles until they had no printed numbers anymore. Tap water. No alcohol swab or soap.

Plus I was homeless for nearly a year of that so I was outside most of the day.

Still never heated my drugs. Almost never had too. Only time you have to is with #3, which historically has been rare where I live, or sometimes when mixing up a really large shot or a few people's shots and needing the heroin to dissolve faster.

Besides, it's always been my understanding that it takes a few minutes of boiling to kill bacteria.
 
Gaffy said:
Keep in mind that the blood goes up, so it's better to start down the vein (hand) and move up the arm as you go.
So if you plan on shooting your arm crook, start with your hand.
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i really wish i'd known this when i started shooting on my own, also i didn't know to rotate sites. i'm insanely right handed due to an injury in my left arm so having to shoot with my left hand was a nightmare. luckily i didn't have to start using my left hand til the week before rehab otherwise i think i'd have caused serious damage to my right arm.
 
^ That’s the one thing I disagree with, for various reasons.

  • The vessels are smaller, so the blood will be less able to dilute the solution fast enough and it will expose the venous walls at the injection site to more damage, resulting in faster collapse.
  • The further from the heart, the harder it is to heal, so any damage or misses will take longer to heal and be more likely to develop into infections.
  • If you start close to the capillaries and follow the route of the major superficial vessel towards the heart, you’re almost guaranteeing it’s inevitable collapse. There are hundreds of perforating veins between the superficial and deep venous system, and also veins that connect between the major superficial venous system, and if you disrupt the flow between a significant portion of that vessel, it will collapse. This is similar to how venous surgeons use sclerotherpay, endovenous thermal ablation and the vein stripping surgical technique.
  • In an ideal world, you really want the vein you choose to have a sufficient diameter and sufficient blood flow to immediately dilute any harmful substances from inflamming or damaging the immediate vein wall, and that becomes much more difficult as you move closer to the capillaries, unless you’re meticulous about making sure your solution is as close to a neutral pH (which, to be fair, @Gaffy did include as one of his rules) and as sterile as realistically possible outside of a medical setting.
 
Deru said:
^ That’s the one thing I disagree with, for various reasons.

  • The vessels are smaller, so the blood will be less able to dilute the solution fast enough and it will expose the venous walls at the injection site to more damage, resulting in faster collapse.
  • The further from the heart, the harder it is to heal, so any damage or misses will take longer to heal and be more likely to develop into infections.
  • If you start close to the capillaries and follow the route of the major superficial vessel towards the heart, you’re almost guaranteeing it’s inevitable collapse. There are hundreds of perforating veins between the superficial and deep venous system, and also veins that connect between the major superficial venous system, and if you disrupt the flow between a significant portion of that vessel, it will collapse. This is similar to how venous surgeons use sclerotherpay, endovenous thermal ablation and the vein stripping surgical technique.
  • In an ideal world, you really want the vein you choose to have a sufficient diameter and sufficient blood flow to immediately dilute any harmful substances from inflamming or damaging the immediate vein wall, and that becomes much more difficult as you move closer to the capillaries, unless you’re meticulous about making sure your solution is as close to a neutral pH (which, to be fair, @Gaffy did include as one of his rules) and as sterile as realistically possible outside of a medical setting.
Click to expand...
I will see for a chnge in the rules as an update that it may not be the best option.
But in my opinion it is still better to lose a small vein in the hand than in your crook.
 
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@Deru & @Gaffy you both make good points

I tied off at the armpit last night and pumped my fist a load and im sure i could see my basilic come to the surface in the the top 2/3rds of my inner arm/bicep area, i thought it would be way deeper from the diagrams/vein maps.
I also noticed some ones in my wrist and one by the elbow i havent used, so ill be going in those first, but i think ive got at least 4 places on my right arm/hand to go now so if I'm careful hopefully they will stay forever.
My biggest problem is the ph of my shots. Street K crystal made into solution is so much stronger than the pharmaceutical stuff which is always either 50 or 100mg/ml whereas my shots range from 200-700mg/ml. And anything higher than 500mg/ml needs to be shot relatively hot before it solidifys. Even with good technique it eats veins up.
I guess I'm going to have to start using twice the amount of water. I need some 5ml barrels. Is there anything else I can do to K to bring the ph down?
 
Deru said:
^ That’s the one thing I disagree with, for various reasons.

  • The vessels are smaller, so the blood will be less able to dilute the solution fast enough and it will expose the venous walls at the injection site to more damage, resulting in faster collapse.
  • The further from the heart, the harder it is to heal, so any damage or misses will take longer to heal and be more likely to develop into infections.
  • If you start close to the capillaries and follow the route of the major superficial vessel towards the heart, you’re almost guaranteeing it’s inevitable collapse. There are hundreds of perforating veins between the superficial and deep venous system, and also veins that connect between the major superficial venous system, and if you disrupt the flow between a significant portion of that vessel, it will collapse. This is similar to how venous surgeons use sclerotherpay, endovenous thermal ablation and the vein stripping surgical technique.
  • In an ideal world, you really want the vein you choose to have a sufficient diameter and sufficient blood flow to immediately dilute any harmful substances from inflamming or damaging the immediate vein wall, and that becomes much more difficult as you move closer to the capillaries, unless you’re meticulous about making sure your solution is as close to a neutral pH (which, to be fair, @Gaffy did include as one of his rules) and as sterile as realistically possible outside of a medical setting.
Click to expand...

Bang on mate.
 
Gaffy said:
But in my opinion it is still better to lose a small vein in the hand than in your crook.
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100%, depending upon which vein it is. One of numerous veins in the dorsal venous network wouldn’t be as much of a problem as collapsing the cephalic or basilic vein in the hand/wrist region.

jhjhsdi said:
I tied off at the armpit last night and pumped my fist a load and im sure i could see my basilic come to the surface in the the top 2/3rds of my inner arm/bicep area, i thought it would be way deeper from the diagrams/vein maps.
Click to expand...

Did you feel the “clunk/pop” as it passed through the fascia?
 
Deru said:
Did you feel the “clunk/pop” as it passed through the fascia?
Click to expand...
Oooh i dunno tbh, i wasnt aware there was one - so wasnt looking out for it, ill try again later to see and let you know mate!


Edit. @Deru
I just tried it again tieing off at the armpit and although i did not feel a pop i am sure i can see it a little and feel it! I also just saw and felt a nice big N formation on the back of my forearm (not the rainy day one) one of which is an absolute fuckin DRAINPIPE running all the way down to my wrist.
Man i wish id been tieing off at the armpit from the start, i always tied around the bicep, what a difference it makes! Even for getting hand/wrist veins pumping. If id had known about all these ones back when i started i wouldn't have killed my hands, crooks and cephalic! New users take notes!

I vow to treat my new found friends with the upmost respect. I can't fucking wait to have an IV session now 🤦‍♂️😂🤷‍♂️😈💉💦
 
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jhjhsdi said:
Oooh i dunno tbh, i wasnt aware there was one - so wasnt looking out for it, ill try again later to see and let you know mate!

Edit. @Deru
I just tried it again tieing off at the armpit and although i did not feel a pop i am sure i can see it a little and feel it!
Click to expand...

I remember it always had that characteristic “pop” (probably more of a pop of relief of pressure than a “clunk”, depending upon how sharp the point was), and when I’d penetrate the wall, the register was almost indistinguable from the artery, it was an insane amount of pressure (and bizarrely way too similar color for some reason), which resulted in way too many accidental intra-arterial injections since they run together in pairs. I mean it’s all so close, even when phlebotomists use ultrasound on me they accidentally hit the nerve bundle or slightly grace the artery wall - and hitting that nerve bundle just right will make you scream in pain, it’s absolutely awful.

There is somewhat of a “safe” area for the basilic vein in the upper arm before it passes through the fascia, that’s why I was curious if you had found it before it went deep - which sounds like without the pop you may be just be lucky enough to see it there 🙂.

Just be careful with it, if that one collapses, it’s going to likely result in, at a minimum, chronic venous insufficiency, to some degree, in that extremity (a torturous complication of IV drug use, I even developed some venous ulcers on my right forearm due to the leakage, and the entire path the major superficial veins used to drain is unable to grow hair, and those ulcers are a 10/10 pain of non-stop burning, lava-esque pain for almost 24 hours per day — yes, no sleep, either — and take months to heal and horribly painful wound care appointments almost daily.).
 
@Deru ohh shit, i misunderstood bro, i havent actually poked myself there yet, i havent got any tools or drugs, i was just practicing tieing off there to see if i could feel it.
I thought you meant a pop/clunk as the vein came through the fascia and to the surface, lol, stupid me. I really am still a noob even after shooting for a few years hey!

I think i may have found that 'safe' place, it was pretty much about an inch or 2 long, very close to the surface, roughly in the middle of my upper arm.

Man, those complications sound horrible, I'll be reallllly careful going there, maybe i wont even go there yet, after finding new ones on my wrist and the massive N on my forearm, ive got plenty other places to go and rotate before i resort to the basilic. Thanks again for ya help pal! 👍 👍 👍
 
Re-up, I would like to ask the mods to sticky this, please discuss it among yourselves. it would help a lot I think, and is what this site is all about, harm reduction..
 
God, did I nearly just expect a Frenchman to instruct me at shooting guns?
 
Gaffy said:
Re-up, I would like to ask the mods to sticky this, please discuss it among yourselves. it would help a lot I think, and is what this site is all about, harm reduction..
Click to expand...

I'm not a mod or anything but in my humble opinion I think a sticky about IV use should contain quite a bit more information (verified of course), with pictures and stuff like that. Kind of like this thread:
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...fo-megathread-faq-iii-vs-i-want-blood.602800/

Maybe you could add some more stuff??Don't know.

There used to be a lot of very useful "megathreads" that seem to have disappeared, I guess there was no one to update them.
 
4meSM said:
I'm not a mod or anything but in my humble opinion I think a sticky about IV use should contain quite a bit more information (verified of course), with pictures and stuff like that. Kind of like this thread:
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...fo-megathread-faq-iii-vs-i-want-blood.602800/

Maybe you could add some more stuff??Don't know.

There used to be a lot of very useful "megathreads" that seem to have disappeared, I guess there was no one to update them.
Click to expand...
I'm open to suggestions and would like to receive anything that could help 😁😎🙂 you can send me content on pm or on my e-mail [email protected]
 
Really good info, I came in expecting to know it all but that tip on checking how ones blood reacts with the intended injection solution is one I’ve never heard or thought of doing before. Makes perfect sense though and can likely save one some veins from too caustic or impure substances.

-GC
 
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