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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

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Do lawyers lie? Yes. But as a profession there are faaar more standards and consequences for lying as a lawyer than nearly any other.

You can't just perjure yourself as a lawyer and expect to get away with it if you're caught.

Lawyers are not giving evidence or testifying, maybe in your mind they are, but they most certainly are not. The lawyer presents their clients case, the lawyer is not attesting to the veracity of the evidence not the truthfulness of a witness, that is for the court to determine. If there is a prima facie case and there is locus standi then the lawyer is absolutely 100% safe, no matter what you may think.
 
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I'm not sure what you mean, but lawyers present evidence and witnesses to the court.
exaclty,
the lawyers cannot perjure themselves presenting evidence on behalf of their client, whatever the lawyers may personally believe is not important.
If lawyers are testifying, where they are giving evidence themselves that is where they can perjure themselves. Unlike presenting someone else's evidence, if they withhold evidence detrimental to their client, then things can get trickier but lawyers have been doing this a long time.
Some people seem to think the lawyers are somehow liable for the veracity of the evidence they present, or that the lawyers are duty bound to check it for truthfulness before presenting it, they are not. In the same way if they present a witness and the witness lies it is not the lawyers problem. Quite something for people who must have collided with the legal system at some point. The lawyers duty is to their client, and that includes advising their client when to drop things because they are unlikely to succeed and what legal avenues and options they can pursue.
 
I'm following what you're saying now. I think the distinction is that the lawyer's arguments aren't done under oath, they're making arguments based upon their witnesses' statements and evidence instead of giving their own statements done under oath.
 
I'm not sure what you mean, but lawyers present evidence and witnesses to the court.
not only that but attorneys are also officers of the court and there are professional conduct standards, upheld by their state bars, which could result in penalties for lying up to and including loss of license.

alasdair
 
I'm following what you're saying now. I think the distinction is that the lawyer's arguments aren't done under oath, they're making arguments based upon their witnesses' statements and evidence instead of giving their own statements done under oath.
thanks.
Now we see if Alasdairm can follow too.... I can wait
 
i'm following along just fine thanks.

lawyers can not perjure themselves when presenting evidence? agreed.
lawyers are not liable for the veracity of their clients' testimony? agreed.
a lawyer's duty is to their client? agreed.

perhaps you are confusing me with somebody else or making assumptions about me which are incorrect.

alasdair
 
so this is the new normal then? Fuck your rights, fuck the laws on the books, fuck everything because I say so?

nah, I'd go for the compromise...which is what leaders from both parties have been doing for decades. Accept defeat graciously in order to preserve our democracy unless there is clear evidence of wrongdoing that could change the result.

In 2000 the entire election came down to 537 votes in one state.

Trump currently trails Biden by tens of thousands of votes in multiple states.

Donald Trump is withholding crucial security briefings from the man who will become President in just a couple of months. He's holding up the funds to ensure a smooth and safe transition. Not too long ago conservatives truly cared about national security and and the strength of our democracy.
 
They just had to take down a go fundmepage created by PA postal worker Richard Hopkins, who Trump called "a patroit" earlier this week after he blew the whistle on supposed voter fraud, only then to recant in a sworn affidavit. Well it turns out he had a go fund me page in which he received over $130,000 in Republican donations..

So for you folks keeping score at home we have 2 counts of confirmed attempts AR voter fraud by Republicans to democrats zero.

Not only that but they have just released a recording, in which he explains how he was coached and helped to set up the go fund me page by project veritas.

 
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Here’s a good compendium of what is out there leak-wise on Trump and losing:

Leaks suggest Trump knows his effort to stay in office is probably doomed

Trump isn’t yet conceding. But sources close to the president are telling reporters he knows he can’t win.

President Donald Trump is still refusing to concede that Joe Biden won the election and continuing to try to challenge the results in court— but a series of recent leaks suggests he might see the writing on the wall.

The Washington Post’s Philip Rucker, Josh Dawsey, and Ashley Parker reported Wednesday that “in an indication [Trump] may be starting to come to terms with his loss, he is talking privately about running again in 2024.”

Steve Holland of Reuters similarly reported, per “a source familiar with internal discussions,” that Trump has been “telling allies he planned to run for president in 2024 and could announce it by the end of the year.”

Peter Alexander of NBC News reported that, per a top White House aide, Trump is “very aware there is not a path to victory” and is only contesting the results as a form of “theater.”

And the Wall Street Journal’s Rebecca Ballhaus and Rebecca Davis O’Brien write: “An official said Mr. Trump understands that the fight isn’t winnable but characterized his feelings as: ‘Let me have the fight.’”

Other reports, such as one from Mike Allen of Axios, say Trump is telling friends he wants to start a media company as a competitor to Fox News.

All these cite anonymous sources and contrast with Trump’s public statements. But if accurate, they suggest that, while Trump may never openly admit he lost and may continue to claim the election has been “stolen” from him, he is not going to keep actually trying to block a Biden presidency indefinitely. (CNN’s Dana Bash cites a source who says Trump won’t publicly acknowledge his loss until the Georgia recount, expected to end November 20, has concluded.)

As I wrote Wednesday, the next important steps in the electoral process are for the states to certify their results, and for the electors to officially be chosen. For Trump to have any shot at overturning the results, he has to somehow block either certifications or electors from multiple states Biden won.

The president is currently not on track to accomplish either, and his prospects for doing either appear dim. Trump’s legal team has filed suits in various states to try to block the certification of results, but those suits look to be frivolous. They have also discussed the possibility of getting GOP state legislators to appoint pro-Trump electors, but Ballhaus and O’Brienwrite that “it isn’t known how seriously the campaign has considered this idea.”

None of this is to say that Trump would turn down an opportunity to stay in office should it present itself, whether through friendly judges or partisan state legislators.

But top Republicans like Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have said that, while Trump is within his rights to pursue legal options now, the states’ results certifications and the Electoral College will settle things.

Particularly if Trump is now talking about a 2024 presidential campaign, it would appear his thoughts are turning to ways he can remain in the spotlight and at the forefront of the political scene once he is no longer the president.
 
Trump made gains among Latino community during this election. The very people who know how bad communism is and escaped cuba and other places in south america for a better life in america. They support donald trump because they know the realities of life. They know trump cared more about them than obama and biden ever did.
 
If you think Trump cares about ANY of the people he's responsible for, then I suspect you don't know trump at all.

He's a narcissist, any concern he has for other people is entirely self serving.
 
If you think Trump cares about ANY of the people he's responsible for, then I suspect you don't know trump at all.

He's a narcissist, any concern he has for other people is entirely self serving.
the statistics for latino communities under trump don't lie they did alot better off under his presidency. he acutally does care. He was the one who did reforms on the jail system getting minorities out of prison he was the one who bought jobs to their communities. Joe biden was the one along with obama who ingored those people and thus made them all vote trump
 
the statistics for latino communities under trump don't lie they did alot better off under his presidency. he acutally does care. He was the one who did reforms on the jail system getting minorities out of prison he was the one who bought jobs to their communities. Joe biden was the one along with obama who ingored those people and thus made them all vote trump

I would bet almost anything that anything positive he's done for... Anyone, in his capacity as president, was done for self interested reasons.

I don't actually care what he's done, I trust my intuition for people, and my intuition tells me trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. Not really.
 
He was the one who did reforms on the jail system
assuming you're talking about the first step act, not really?

the full extent of trump's involvement - in what was a notable bipartisan house bill - was that he signed it. indeed, while the bill authorized congress to appropriate $75 million per year over 4 years, trump's 2020 budget provided only $14 million. he cared about a bill he had no hand in to the tune of a measly 18.6%.

i rate your claim mostly false.

alasdair
 
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