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Sinning, as Jesus and the church say, is good. Turn or burn Christians.

Are the Abrahamic religions correct in their view of sin being good?

Definitely not good, but forgiveable. Religions, specifically Abrahamic religions, wouldn't have worked very well if they didn't make allowances for human behavior, so it was completely necessary. You would have all of the followers of your faith miserable and with the belief they were doomed to "hell", and that wouldn't be productive by any means.
 
I don't know that people actually have morals. I'm not saying they don't but I'd be surprised if there were people who did. Of course plenty of us have values, but morality is something that has to do with traditions and history which I can't see thriving in a modern context

Of course they do, moral laws still govern to this day. If you don't go out and kill someone because you're worried you're going to go to hell if you do, then moral law has governed that individuals behavior. Anytime any single person adjusts their behavior in the fear of consequences in whatever their faith comes up with, moral law has governed successfully (obviously successfully is conditional on one's belief system.)
 
Definitely not good, but forgiveable. Religions, specifically Abrahamic religions, wouldn't have worked very well if they didn't make allowances for human behavior, so it was completely necessary. You would have all of the followers of your faith miserable and with the belief they were doomed to "hell", and that wouldn't be productive by any means.

Christians sing that sin is necessary to Yahweh's plan. That is more than forgivable, it deserves praise for keeping Yahweh's plan on track. No?

Yahweh does not care about being productive. He can create whatever he wills. If he were real that is.

What Christianity, as an institution, cares about, is money, not whatever god is doing.

Regards
DL
 
Good morning to you Sir.

I know it's difficult (as you noted) for you to write. So I for one sure do appreciate the time and the trouble you've gone to in posting your post.

Full disclosure: I spent a good deal of time this morning looking up and trying to learn a little bit about Gnostic beliefs i.e. no point in having a discussion about something that I know absolutely nothing about. Suffice to say: yet again I've learned something new (albeit on a very cursory level).

My issue remains and my search continues though (and my use of the word "issue" doesn't mean I have an issue with you or your beliefs i.e. it's in reference to my personal issue with all of this that we're debating). Even Gnostic's (as I understand it anyway and from my cursory reading on the topic) are to rely on, or incorporate, "belief" and "faith" and the existence of a "supreme being". In other words: even with being a Gnostic you have to make the assumption that there is some truth to biblical (and/or other religious) texts and that all is not merely folklore that's been passed down century after century and based on "beliefs" that originated as a result of the people of the time not being able to make sense of certain phenomena and, apparently, it's a human trait that we have to be able to "make sense" of things (or find patterns in things as another example) e.g. weather or climate phenomena and changes. We know today, for example, that if a small meteor hits the earth somewhere in some remote place: it just happened as a result of a piece of rock barreling its way through the earth's atmosphere and burning up on the way down (and if a piece makes it to the ground then there's an explosion and a crater formed). But go back thousands and thousands of years and without this knowledge: in all probability it'd be perceived as one or the other "supreme being" or "God" being angry and raining down fire on the earth. That being said: it again comes down to maybe the way all of this has been taught over the centuries. The occurrence of the (a) great flood can be (to a certain extent) proved today. It happened (to a greater or lesser degree). But as for Noah and the ark? We'd not even be able to pull off saving all the animals on the planet "two-by-two" with the technology of TODAY let alone a few thousand years ago.

Anyway. That's my comments (for now).

Once again: your post and effort is very much appreciated.

Please have a look at this information and know that Gnostic Christians think that the literal reading of myths, even our own, is a really foolish thing to do.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL
 
@dalpat077 Right, see I think morality is just as easily a societal construct as it is a personal one. I tend to think that individual people aren't moral or amoral. People have coping mechanisms to deal with stress. If they don't then they probably lack value judgment which tells them what acceptable behavior looks like

War is an example where stress management is critical. I guess this is just scratching the surface, but I think it's that simple
 
Yahweh does not care about being productive. He can create whatever he wills. If he were real that is.

Right, you're looking at that from a perspective of what would this higher power do, when this higher power was created by man, specifically Abraham in this case. So, yes, absolutely what the religion encompasses would care about their followers being productive members of their society, that's the whole entire point to anything that governs human behavior.
 
@dalpat077 Right, see I think morality is just as easily a societal construct as it is a personal one. I tend to think that individual people aren't moral or amoral. People have coping mechanisms to deal with stress. If they don't then they probably lack value judgment which tells them what acceptable behavior looks like

War is an example where stress management is critical. I guess this is just scratching the surface, but I think it's that simple

Religions are social constructs, and therefore govern the individuals who follow said religion.

It's like asking if the law that governs murdering someone is societal or personal.

It could inherently become both, as both are interrelated.
 
Right, you're looking at that from a perspective of what would this higher power do, when this higher power was created by man, specifically Abraham in this case. So, yes, absolutely what the religion encompasses would care about their followers being productive members of their society, that's the whole entire point to anything that governs human behavior.

Having people idol worship a genocidal satanic god is hardly a good way to enhance human behavior.

As Jesus indicated, all higher powers are to serve us. Not us serve them.

They have no needs or wants but we sure do.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Keep your spiritual life apart from your physical life. The laws in heaven can never be the laws on earth. Some, of course, will match but few.

Regards
DL
 
Having people idol worship a genocidal satanic god is hardly a good way to enhance human behavior

This is where religions become problematic, but it's not surprising, considering inherent human behavior. We live in such advanced social constructs that religions like that become necessary and unfortunately came into existence, as today, our survival isn't dependent on those religions like they once were. So it's comparing apples and oranges to compare the two religions without context.

Edit: I think I misinterpreted your original meaning. So let me readdress:

When you're dealing with what would be insanely irrational and antisocial people by today's standards, what do you expect? It worked well enough and we evolved, be thankful for it.
 
This is where religions become problematic, but it's not surprising, considering inherent human behavior. We live in such advanced social constructs that religions like that become necessary and unfortunately came into existence, as today, our survival isn't dependent on those religions like they once were. So it's comparing apples and oranges to compare the two religions without context.

Edit: I think I misinterpreted your original meaning. So let me readdress:

When you're dealing with what would be insanely irrational and antisocial people by today's standards, what do you expect? It worked well enough and we evolved, be thankful for it.

I am not sure what two religions you refer to, but the mainstreams evolution was hindered by their institutionalized evil.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.




Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL
 
In my personal opinion, religions still serve their purpose with moral law to this day, no doubt, with beneficial human behavior adjustments as an outcome.

However, since we no longer rely on it for survival, I find what @deficiT is utilizing religion for as primarily where religion can shine in our current social constructs.

With our mental cognitive ability, accepting that life and our existence is inherently void of any meaning besides being able to find food, shelter, survival and reproduce to keep our species alive creates problems to function as a well-adjusted member of society in these constructs.

It creates a mechanism to find "meaning" and re-calibrate internally so that our external behavior is "well-adjusted."

Every religion will have flaws, they have to, they were created by imperfect human beings.

What I fail to understand is the logic that Islam and Christianity is "evil." If evil is profoundly wicked or immoral, both would have subjective interpretations and everything could be considered "evil".
 
God in all His Sovereignty has let man choose his own path. What’s the point if you will not freely love Him by conscience choice.
Why God in the OT was like you say genocidal is because He didn’t want His chosen ppl mixed up with pretty much demons.

imagine life as a chess board. He makes the call on both ends. We the clay cannot and will not having any excuse on Judgment day.

Jesus suffered but could call 12 legions of Angels but chose to do His Father’s will.
Shedding His blood He made it possible that we as True Christians will suffer what He felt on the Cross. It is sanctifying us. Every lash and every tearing of His skin in our lives represents our pain.
I know before I got born again I felt an emptiness, longing for something and when I was convicted about Hell I did not turn back. Have I struggled w sin absolutely. Have I won battles yes. Satan has won many battles by blinding ppl the taken them out. But it really isn’t Satan if God is Sovereign, He is long suffering desiring NO one to perish, but He knows not every one called will be chosen, I’m not taking a chance on something I am more then convinced is real.

In the OT He showed them miracles but the Israelites always wondered. So He made a new Covenant. And His heart is now our heart. And when we speak it’s not us who are talking But Him.

everytime I ever got in trouble either w the law or doctors I spill the beans and the truth has always set me free. Trust me. I can count on His promises.

there are things on this side that we will never understand or even be able to comprehend. But He is good. Even when evil runs rampant God still remains His Awesome and Great self.
 
It was never going to be perfect, it just needed to work.

Inquisitions and jihads tried to insure that. The lower level of homophobia and misogyny took over and is well in place today.

The Dark Ages of religions never ended and pollute society today.

Regards
DL
 
What I fail to understand is the logic that Islam and Christianity is "evil."

Is a god who kills when he could just as easily cure a good god to you?

Genocide is what you support if you support Yahweh or his vile immoral religions.

Christians call evil good. Do you?

Regards
DL
 
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