A few questions for those well versed in psychedelics.

[pupnik]

@supermarket, I gave you the answer which you quoted above and then argued.

I interpret your wish as being for opium like medicines that take you to dreamland and silence body pain.

by the way, being adept at pain control is not related to how many times you have tripped but it is good to know you tried a lot.

 

[Asante]

Dissociatives have had me so fearless that if there was a gun on the table (I don't own firearms) i would have nothing stopping me from either shooting another or myself with it, except for the rational knowledge that this was a very bad thing to do with far reaching consequences. The emotional/moral centers of the brain were almost shut down. You could say, temporary partial sociopathy was induced. This is why gang members and African war lords use dissociatives to do driveby shootings and as war drugs.

Dissociatives can induce a near absence of the fear response, where only rationality remains and sometimes not even that, as Big Lurch can attest.

This is a risk factor for naturally reckless,. impulsive and seriously troubled individuals, who suddenly find the obstacle to suicide or homicide fall away. When PCP was a big thing, there were many cases of PCP suicides and people pouncing cop cars like velociraptors.

Dissociatives are strongly psychologically addictive and a dissociatives addiction usually is not sustainable, generally escalating to a trainwreck situation.

I have literally been the 365lbs guy, stark naked in the street, high on MXE and Tiletamine, bleeding out of injuries, in the dead of winter, walking confidently up to a cop saying "You are exactly the person I want to speak to right now!" He told me "Stand still!" At this point my Spirit Guide, in my head, told me: "Asante: comply or he'll Tazer the crap out of you." so I stopped. I was completely compliant and the paramedics, also on the scene, decided I should go with them. There was an atmosphere in the ambulance of "if that 365lbs gorilla goes wild we're fucked." The story I told them made clear I was suffering acute drug induced psychosis.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Dissociatives have had me so fearless that if there was a gun on the table (I don't own firearms) i would have nothing stopping me from either shooting another or myself with it, except for the rational knowledge that this was a very bad thing to do with far reaching consequences. The emotional/moral centers of the brain were almost shut down. You could say, temporary partial sociopathy was induced. This is why gang members and African war lords use dissociatives to do driveby shootings and as war drugs.

Dissociatives can induce a near absence of the fear response, where only rationality remains and sometimes not even that, as Big Lurch can attest.

This is a risk factor for naturally reckless,. impulsive and seriously troubled individuals, who suddenly find the obstacle to suicide or homicide fall away. When PCP was a big thing, there were many cases of PCP suicides and people pouncing cop cars like velociraptors.

Dissociatives are strongly psychologically addictive and a dissociatives addiction usually is not sustainable, generally escalating to a trainwreck situation.

I have literally been the 365lbs guy, stark naked in the street, high on MXE and Tiletamine, bleeding out of injuries, in the dead of winter, walking confidently up to a cop saying "You are exactly the person I want to speak to right now!" He told me "Stand still!" At this point my Spirit Guide, in my head, told me: "Asante: comply or he'll Tazer the crap out of you." so I stopped. I was completely compliant and the paramedics, also on the scene, decided I should go with them. There was an atmosphere in the ambulance of "if that 365lbs gorilla goes wild we're fucked." The story I told them made clear I was suffering acute drug induced psychosis.

I may be one of the lucky few ...but I do dissos a few times a year and I never overdo it.
It IS possibly to use arylcycholhexelamines quite responsibly.
I cant even imagine getting shwacked on drugs (except weed) more than once a month...I got too many responsibilities to be fucked up all the time.
I think a once a month disso experience is quite sustainable and not unhealthy.

 

[Asante]

The way I solved it with my MXE was to give my stash in custody to my non-using friends with the instruction to only dispense a measured quantity once or twice a month.

I was addicted but my use was stable, stabilized by outsourcing my stash, which I can recommend to anyone. My best friends were my apothecaries

THIS WENT WRONG when a christmas came, where I did 2 uses of 48 hours each in one week (hey, its christmas :D) and when I came home I walked right into en envelope of 25gr Tiletamine, a dissociative as potent as O-PCE.

I proceeded to abuse it and figured my friend would relieve me of it at New Years (hey, its less than a week) but in that week I severely overdid my Tiletamine use and as is known from animal experiments, too much dissociatives results in drug induced psychosis. .

That happened to me, and that rock bottom made me decide I no longer wanted part of dissociatives.

I did a few doses, then a final Grand Slam almost a year later and I quit for good.

 

[DrumTripper]

Never done dissos, and now am no longer curious.
Thanks for the heads up!
And @Asante glad to hear you kicked the ass of that monkey!

 

[Asante]

No regrets though.

Dissociatives by their addictive nature achieved a lifelong goal for me: To cram enough high doses of entheogens for long enough, to move completely through the biographic, perinatal and ego death phases, into the Transpersonal realm - as described by Stanislav Grof as caused by high dose LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY (see the book by that title)

Psychedelic bad trips repelled me too hard to stick with the program. dissociative bad trips and their addictive nature compelled me to complete a 25 year entheogenic voyage in 8 years of hard work.

In my younger years I lived under extremely traumatizing circumstances. Entheogens and most notably MXE made me re-live that again and again until my entire life right up the birth trauma and my fear of death were entirely and permanently processed, with several hard Ego Death resets (each on birth and death dates of my parents and siblings) to reboot me to a life without those traumas. I'm over them. I'm over my need to take drugs. I could ride dissociatives right into Drug Psychosis and then, months later as a final goodbye to dissociatives do a HUNDRED HOUR TRIP that did NOT turn me psychotic but instead gave me a spiritual ecstasy that lasted a month as the final 21 gun salute to the most awesome class of entheogens, the ones that CURED ME.

That 100 hour trip consisted of 50 hours of the worst of all bad trips I ever had, the natural culmination of them all, then followed by 50 hours of the best possible good trip, the one that connected all the loose ends of previous trips, after that I fell into I believe 14 hours of sleep, for days I had to physically recover, while my mind threw a 1 month spirtual fireworks show to celebrate.

I'm not the same since, in the best way. I havent touched a drug in 10 months, gave my booze and distiller away. Drugs are over, it seems. Maybe some microdoses of this or that but that's it.

Every trip breaks you down and builds you back up. The 100 hour MXE trip broke me down to the ground and built me up in an awesome constellation, the best ever psychologic constellation, and I don't feel like rebuilding that in the foreseeable future. I will evolve but naturally.

I'm intensely grateful to dissociatives.

If you turned back the clock and asked me to do it again I'd do it exact same way, including the drug psychosis.

What I gained is the utmost what entheogenic therapy can achieve and I owe it to dissociatives.

The addiction worked in my favor by making the drug irresistable and it needs to be said, after the Session of Sessions it was completely gone.

Sounds S&M but the addiction was the strict master that assured, whip in hand, that I'd take the high doses and keep at it until the process was complete. The addiction made it possible for me to experience what needed to be experienced AND WAS GONE the moment I needed it to be gone.

Who can ask for anything more?

So I been badmouthing dissociatives but I consider them the best of entheogens for me - but will never use them again.

 

[tired of crap]

Other than k my only other disassociative use is dxm. To me dxm can be a powerful antidepressant, a great launch pad for psychedelics/edibles and decently psychedelic on its own. (All at medium/ high doses of powder... even robogels/sucrets and sucralose free, dxm only syrups weren’t horrid but powder is definitely preferred)

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

The way I solved it with my MXE was to give my stash in custody to my non-using friends with the instruction to only dispense a measured quantity once or twice a month.

I was addicted but my use was stable, stabilized by outsourcing my stash, which I can recommend to anyone. My best friends were my apothecaries

THIS WENT WRONG when a christmas came, where I did 2 uses of 48 hours each in one week (hey, its christmas :D) and when I came home I walked right into en envelope of 25gr Tiletamine, a dissociative as potent as O-PCE.

I proceeded to abuse it and figured my friend would relieve me of it at New Years (hey, its less than a week) but in that week I severely overdid my Tiletamine use and as is known from animal experiments, too much dissociatives results in drug induced psychosis. .

That happened to me, and that rock bottom made me decide I no longer wanted part of dissociatives.

I did a few doses, then a final Grand Slam almost a year later and I quit for good.

Just out of curiosity....how was Tiletamine compared to other dissociative?
I know of a reliable vendor that stocks it....

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Never done dissos, and now am no longer curious.
Thanks for the heads up!
And @Asante glad to hear you kicked the ass of that monkey!

I must also add...although I completely agree that it seems dissociative can be incredibly addicting for some....my deepest and most spiritual experiences on MXE have absolutely dwarfed anything I've experienced on ANY 5h2a psychedelic.
Just like with anything, if you choose to overdo any substance then you are driving head first into a disaster.
If you can use something responsibly and not excessively then it's the complete opposite.
Arylcycholhexelamines quite honestly have the highest therapeutic potential of any drug I've researched or even read about....just dont do them every day and don't do stupid doses

 

[Asante]

If a reliable vendor stocks it in pure form, for a fair price, it wouldnt hurt to pick a bit of it up.. Just like you have PCP and TCP, you have O-PCE and O-TCE. Tiletamine is O-TCE, so it has a thiophene instead of a benzene and the rest of the molecule is the same as O-PCE.

People who enjoy Ketamine find pure Tiletamine pure shit, but if you look at it as a O-PCE analog its not too bad, and I think, superior. I recommend you to premedicate with one motion sickness pill, because there can be some nausea. I only took it intra-rectally. It comes on very rapidly and strongly, faster and more anesthetic than MXE or O-PCE, the peak is shorter than these but you dive DEEPER. If you plug it, doing it in bed in a dark room is the way to go. Its at least as potent as O-PCE, do not underestimate this one, though the peak is shorter there is a long post peak phase where you are "out of it" just like with O-PCE. Much less stimulant though, easier to sleep. Also, easier to UNDERESTIMATE in just how strong it is. Some sources say its 10x as potent as ketamine.

I have used MXE very heavily but never had visuals like I had them with Tiletamine. Late at night during the witching hour, my living room was transformed to a jungle, and a platoon of African soldiers, AK47's in hand, sloowly advanced from my front room, past me, into the kitchen, carefully scouting the area for enemies, One lit a cigarette, one checked the jammed charging handle of his AK, another soldier helped him expel the cartridge and go on. I waved and winked to them and they signalled back, acknowledging me as a friendly, one went standing over me sitting down in my chair and looked at me in curiosuity for several minutes before moving on.

stuff. like. that. I was straight up dreaming with my eyes open and knew it.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

If a reliable vendor stocks it in pure form, for a fair price, it wouldnt hurt to pick a bit of it up.. Just like you have PCP and TCP, you have O-PCE and O-TCE. Tiletamine is O-TCE, so it has a thiophene instead of a benzene and the rest of the molecule is the same as O-PCE.

People who enjoy Ketamine find pure Tiletamine pure shit, but if you look at it as a O-PCE analog its not too bad, and I think, superior. I recommend you to premedicate with one motion sickness pill, because there can be some nausea. I only took it intra-rectally. It comes on very rapidly and strongly, faster and more anesthetic than MXE or O-PCE, the peak is shorter than these but you dive DEEPER. If you plug it, doing it in bed in a dark room is the way to go. Its at least as potent as O-PCE, do not underestimate this one, though the peak is shorter there is a long post peak phase where you are "out of it" just like with O-PCE. Much less stimulant though, easier to sleep. Also, easier to UNDERESTIMATE in just how strong it is. Some sources say its 10x as potent as ketamine.

I have used MXE very heavily but never had visuals like I had them with Tiletamine. Late at night during the witching hour, my living room was transformed to a jungle, and a platoon of African soldiers, AK47's in hand, sloowly advanced from my front room, past me, into the kitchen, carefully scouting the area for enemies, One lit a cigarette, one checked the jammed charging handle of his AK, another soldier helped him expel the cartridge and go on. I waved and winked to them and they signalled back, acknowledging me as a friendly, one went standing over me sitting down in my chair and looked at me in curiosuity for several minutes before moving on.

stuff. like. that. I was straight up dreaming with my eyes open and knew it.

Honestly, this sounds completely amazing!!!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

If a reliable vendor stocks it in pure form, for a fair price, it wouldnt hurt to pick a bit of it up.. Just like you have PCP and TCP, you have O-PCE and O-TCE. Tiletamine is O-TCE, so it has a thiophene instead of a benzene and the rest of the molecule is the same as O-PCE.

People who enjoy Ketamine find pure Tiletamine pure shit, but if you look at it as a O-PCE analog its not too bad, and I think, superior. I recommend you to premedicate with one motion sickness pill, because there can be some nausea. I only took it intra-rectally. It comes on very rapidly and strongly, faster and more anesthetic than MXE or O-PCE, the peak is shorter than these but you dive DEEPER. If you plug it, doing it in bed in a dark room is the way to go. Its at least as potent as O-PCE, do not underestimate this one, though the peak is shorter there is a long post peak phase where you are "out of it" just like with O-PCE. Much less stimulant though, easier to sleep. Also, easier to UNDERESTIMATE in just how strong it is. Some sources say its 10x as potent as ketamine.

I have used MXE very heavily but never had visuals like I had them with Tiletamine. Late at night during the witching hour, my living room was transformed to a jungle, and a platoon of African soldiers, AK47's in hand, sloowly advanced from my front room, past me, into the kitchen, carefully scouting the area for enemies, One lit a cigarette, one checked the jammed charging handle of his AK, another soldier helped him expel the cartridge and go on. I waved and winked to them and they signalled back, acknowledging me as a friendly, one went standing over me sitting down in my chair and looked at me in curiosuity for several minutes before moving on.

stuff. like. that. I was straight up dreaming with my eyes open and knew it.

Sorry to bug you again but I greatly appreciate your wisdom!!!
So would you consider the experience with Tiletamine with the platoon of african soldiers to be a "holing" experience?
Like was this somewhat reminiscent of what the Tiletamine hole is like?
Sounds incredibly psychedelic!!!

 

[Asante]

I was in the Hole but there was more to it. I'm an experienced meditator and I had managed to astral project WHILE AWAKE during the Tiletamine Trip and thus, the Hole mingled with waking dreaming. This is strictly for professionals :D you have to be able to do a waking astral projection so that you dream while awake.

There is a gaping downside to this, had one of the soldiers bayonetted me it would have actually hurt because they cannot touch my real body but my dream body that I wear inside my RL body does register pain. Also, you get into trance logic a bit.

I have a sense that the single benadryl (50mg diphenhydramine) I took against nausea added favorably to the visuals. This should hold true for all arylcyclohexylamines, a single benadryl might be a sensible premedication.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I was in the Hole but there was more to it. I'm an experienced meditator and I had managed to astral project WHILE AWAKE during the Tiletamine Trip and thus, the Hole mingled with waking dreaming. This is strictly for professionals :D you have to be able to do a waking astral projection so that you dream while awake.

There is a gaping downside to this, had one of the soldiers bayonetted me it would have actually hurt because they cannot touch my real body but my dream body that I wear inside my RL body does register pain. Also, you get into trance logic a bit.

I have a sense that the single benadryl (50mg diphenhydramine) I took against nausea added favorably to the visuals. This should hold true for all arylcyclohexylamines, a single benadryl might be a sensible premedication.

Have you combined benadryl with dissos regularly?
It's not something that ever occurs to me... I'm an insomniac and I generally really dislike diphenhydramine for sleeping (I never feel like I get a well rested sleep on benadryl vs etizolam).
But let me know if it's been a positive combination with dissos for you or if it was a one time thing...
Thank you so much for your insight Asante!!!

 

[Asante]

I have completely stopped taking entheogens and recreational drugs for 10 months now, save for a single toxload experiment of MXPr to increase datapoints known early in that topic. MXiPr etc etc, all fine and dandy but its not for me anymore.

It seems that my experimentation years have drawn to a close, in the best way possible.

Benadryl is an antihistaminic with considerable anticholinergic effects. Arylcyclohexylamines increase salivation, anticholinergics reduce it. Arylcyclohexylamines cause stimulation, benadryl sedation. Plus, 1 tablet of benadryl inches you a tiny bit in the direction of anticholinergic delirium while NOT getting you there, and dissociatives have the Hole. The Benadryl kinda opens the door on a crack for the visuals of the Hole to become more vivid.

 

[thegreenhand]

How to get rid of LSD body load:

Dance dance and then dont stop dancin

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

@supermarket;
an adept user will be able to transcend body-load, pain, etc.

you really want an anesthetic - recreational anesthetics have long term drawbacks like addiction.

psychedelics intensify sensations (body load is that) and mental formations.
anesthetics might let you dream without body load

Yes, you can also do this while not on any drugs via meditation and lucid dreaming, or astral projection.

 

[Jabberwocky]

ever try Muscimol? I never got it to work, but then again I never used enough or did it right :/ there's definitely a trick to it, apparently very trippy and dreamy/sedating, though. I've heard success stories and it sounds amazing. There is also a pharma derivative that is more potent but I forgot the name and it never passed the trials so it's probably extremely rare. Starts with a G, forgot the name.

personally, I don't experience any body load on LSD. If anything I feel light and energized. Everyone is different. Shrooms definitely have a body load, and I don't really care for them. 2C-x has it's own weird body load.

LSD is my favorite recreational psychedelic by a large margin. It's only downside is it's very long duration, especially on high doses and if you are already predisposed to HPPD. Shit man on high doses 500ug+ I'll be tripping for upwards of 36 hours.

 

[thegreenhand]

Gaboxadol maybe?

Although I have yet to try this i have often considered taking a long acting benzo at the end of LSD trips because I’m always so tired but cant sleep. My preferred use for lsd is at a concert/rave/club for dancing, as noted earlier. But then when the lights come on and its time to go home I’m left with a good 5 hr minimum of not really tripping but not sober. Some people really find that second half excellent for reflection but personally i use lsd more “recreationally” (hate that word but i think it fits here) than some so i think it could make sense to soften the landing in such a situation.

 

[thegreenhand]

That's where the couple bad LSD trips I've had have gone south, not the come up or peak but very tail end. Didn't feel like I was still tripping but very serious delusional thinking crept up until panic set in leading to full psychotic breaks. Very frustrating.

Yeah it’s just a very unsettling feeling. And then I get tempted to do other drugs to pass the time like alcohol (good fun with lsd actually) or weed which always leads to psychosis for me so I’ve learned my lesson there but ofc I still get cravings. I feel like a long lasting benzo just to put me to sleep is the better option. No different really than using a benzo as a landing pad after MDMA for example, which is decently common