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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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draculic acid69 said:
Science madness isn't the hive dude.
U can't just rockup and ask about clearly illegal schedule 1 drug chemistry.scimadness is a mix of all sorts of chemistry.drugs aren't really looked down on there except by the few stuffy brainwashed stiffs who just happen to also be amateur chemists.a lot of hive members went there but there's a way to talk about these things and the thread on this topic was pretty on the edge of what's considered etiquette there.The rest of the members just want to keep the site off the radar due to the way the hive ended (with a TV exposé and legal implications) and bcoz amateur chemistry has enough legal problems
and restrictions that come with it that opening the possibility of being associated with drug chemistry as well is going to cause them more problems.
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yet there are many posts asking to trade illegal shecdule 1 precursors or ways to obtain them lmao. Its a joke fourm of idiots from australia and NZ pretending to do chemistry without going to a university
 
This background helps me understand why the chemistry of MDMA, a well-known molecule first developed in 1912 and patented by Merck in 1914, is not exact, not yet fully known, and still requires detailed, stringent analyses and controls.
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maps.org

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access

Written by Heather Clouting, M.Sc. MAPS Bulletin Spring 2020: Vol. 30, No. 1 Download this article. Nearly 20 years ago, during our final year of university while studying for our Bachelor’s in chemistry, I thought that two fellow students and I were rebels for suggesting that our organic...
maps.org maps.org

Very, VERY interesting read that gives insight into the MAPS chemistry process for manufacturing MDMA.

Check out the graphic towards the bottom of the article. "However, even with this appropriately thorough approach from small-scale to large-scale development, the design space that was defined for Stage 2 of the reaction was shown to not completely predict the outcome." Are they admitting that even with their advanced protocols/science they were having a difficult time with synthesis?

Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature. A polymorph refers to a well-defined crystalline structure, where the molecules are attached to each other in a repeatable pattern. A good example of this is C6 (carbon). Carbon will bond to itself six times to form the commonly known “benzene ring” molecule. However, the way these C6 molecules bond to each other can take different crystalline or polymorphic forms, such as diamond vs graphite. Both polymorphs are the same molecule—but one, diamond, is the hardest substance known and the other, graphite, one of the softest. This is an extreme example, but clearly shows why it is so important to understand the chemistry of any molecule that is being developed for human use.
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As MAPS goes through their process, the primary question of this thread may end up answered.
 
indigoaura said:
Polymorphic studies are important as a particular polymorph can be responsible for a particular property which might not be exhibited by any other form.
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Yeah, but once you dissolve the MDMA salt powder then all crystalline polymorphic differences go out the window, don't they ?
 
TripSitterNZ said:
yet there are many posts asking to trade illegal shecdule 1 precursors or ways to obtain them lmao. Its a joke fourm of idiots from australia and NZ pretending to do chemistry without going to a university
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Yeah ppl trade chems even restricted ones not everyone is using them for drugs.
 
draculic acid69 said:
Yeah ppl trade chems even restricted ones not everyone is using them for drugs.its really a good site.
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I know people who used it for sourcing precursors for making mdma in NZ and now they are sitting inside jail. LE watch that site and undercovers setup meetings there. If people want to learn chemistry and are serious about it they go to university not post on the internet and go around in a circle with the most basic questions
 
TripSitterNZ said:
I know people who used it for sourcing precursors for making mdma in NZ and now they are sitting inside jail. LE watch that site and undercovers setup meetings there. If people want to learn chemistry and are serious about it they go to university not post on the internet and go around in a circle with the most basic questions
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Undercover cops setup meetings there huh? I think Ur full of shit.
 
The reason they don't openly tolerate drug synthesis and discussion is bcoz they don't want things like law enforcement monitoring it and targeting ppl.like I said it's not the hive
 
Reddit has threads on drug chemistry where u can openly talk about this stuff without it being against forum guidelines. try there.
 
So I haven't read thru this whole thread, but I read the first post and felt compelled to comment.

I came up in Chicago around 2004 poppin my first bean. Green/Red Strawberries, Blue/Green Xmas Trees, Orange Omegas etc...all fire until like 2006 when meth started getting cut. So you'd get a meth bomb 20% occasion (if you didn't test/use pillreports). Then the mint man came and crushed the buildings for years. So about 2013 I took a long break. Fast forward to last year, I felt comfortable with myself to roll again. I'm in Denver now, which is more of a molly area than pressed pills. Regardless, I tried out the Orange Teslas which have all MDMA Medium-High ratings on PR. Same with Pink/Red CP Supremes. You roll for maybe 20 minutes, then get the physical effects, but no love. These of course all tested straight to black, and have been verified by ecstacy data. When you try the molly, it again, goes straight to black and sometime fizzes on the tester. But if you take it there's no love. You just feel 'monged out' with a heavy body load. I wouldn't even advise having sex on these. So, I 100% agree with OP's sentiment. The best guess I can make is, during the time when the DW really popped up, and the US was getting loads of fire fire MDMA pills...purple party flocks, those guys....some of our friends overseas saw how easy it was to import rolls now....and maybe changed their production procedure? IDK. But it seems the influx of 200mg + MDMA pills came right around the time pills started to suck. Just my thoughts.

I did recently score 5 MDA Black Armani's from the TX crew that started with the dragonflys, fingers crossed I can actually roll again!
 
mrsmokeweed said:
So I haven't read thru this whole thread, but I read the first post and felt compelled to comment.

I came up in Chicago around 2004 poppin my first bean. Green/Red Strawberries, Blue/Green Xmas Trees, Orange Omegas etc...all fire until like 2006 when meth started getting cut. So you'd get a meth bomb 20% occasion (if you didn't test/use pillreports). Then the mint man came and crushed the buildings for years. So about 2013 I took a long break. Fast forward to last year, I felt comfortable with myself to roll again. I'm in Denver now, which is more of a molly area than pressed pills. Regardless, I tried out the Orange Teslas which have all MDMA Medium-High ratings on PR. Same with Pink/Red CP Supremes. You roll for maybe 20 minutes, then get the physical effects, but no love. These of course all tested straight to black, and have been verified by ecstacy data. When you try the molly, it again, goes straight to black and sometime fizzes on the tester. But if you take it there's no love. You just feel 'monged out' with a heavy body load. I wouldn't even advise having sex on these. So, I 100% agree with OP's sentiment. The best guess I can make is, during the time when the DW really popped up, and the US was getting loads of fire fire MDMA pills...purple party flocks, those guys....some of our friends overseas saw how easy it was to import rolls now....and maybe changed their production procedure? IDK. But it seems the influx of 200mg + MDMA pills came right around the time pills started to suck. Just my thoughts.

I did recently score 5 MDA Black Armani's from the TX crew that started with the dragonflys, fingers crossed I can actually roll again!
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You and me lived similar times :) the mints will forever be the best pills I’ve ever taken, ever.... Those days.

-GC
 
@PsychedelicSummer I just posted the same article. There is some very interesting info in there.

@mrsmokeweed You said, "You just feel 'monged out' with a heavy body load." Yeah, I agree. Back in the early 00s we called those types of pills "mongy," and everyone agreed it was not the ideal kind of pill to end up with.
 
G_Chem said:
You and me lived similar times :) the mints will forever be the best pills I’ve ever taken, ever.... Those days.

-GC
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Ah man! You a midwest cat? My two favorites were Yellow Asterisk and the Blue A's...really any of the Blue's....they were mostly MDA. My favorite! The pink strawberries of 2004/5 will forever be my 'best pill ever'...ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

@indigoaura I'm not sure where it derived from, but mongy is really the best way I can describe em! I think it's because there's SO MUCH MDMA in 'em they overwhelm you and you'd rather sit than dance. I've not tried any of the new euro's except the Supremes/Tesla's, and I only full dropped.

Also if y'all are bored there's a vice documentary called High Society about MDMA in europe. They show these two kids (who were making like 1500 pills a day) literally mixing/breaking up 3/4 grams of MDMA and 8 grams of crystaline (both which they got from dirty ass plastic containers) with a shitty old hammer.......then right into the press. What a world.
 
indigoaura said:
Are they admitting that even with their advanced protocols/science they were having a difficult time with synthesis?
...
As MAPS goes through their process, the primary question of this thread may end up answered.
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My read is that MAPS has hired a contract company to manufacture MDMA on a large scale and this article is reporting on work that company is doing to get high consistent yields in their factory. As you may recall, so far, essentially all FDA-supervised research giving people MDMA within the US has used a batch that Dave Nichols made. But MAPS is about to need much larger amounts, making this new manufacturing process necessary.

Forms that the dry molecule can take should be irrelevant to the effects of the drug once it is dissolved in the body.
 
IME the first few rolls with MDMA were always the best ones which produced a lovely soft afterglow that can last at least 24 hours. Unfortunately, this doesn't last and the more i've done it; the worse the come-down I've experienced once it wears off.
Also the amount of MDMA that's taken would dictate a lot of what kind of high would be experienced. For example, if I was to take anywhere between 50-80mg; I would get that lovey euphoria radiating through my body without the amphetamine-like speediness and anxiety that's common with doses upwards of 100-150mg.

A great trick I found was to dose 1:2 or 3:4 of what you took earlier once that euphoria was achieved so that as it starts to wear off, it will soon be replaced by the dose you've just taken. This can be repeated as often as you like, but be wary as the more you do it; the more undesirable side effects will occur.

It's also worth pointing out how strong some E-pills are in Europe today, some of which have been found to contain upwards of 200mg of MDMA, which is enough to floor your most seasoned tripper and potentially put a teenager in hospital or worse. For any first timers reading this, i'd highly recommend breaking your pills in 1:2 or into 1:4 and taking it slow because there's nothing worse than taking way too much at once and ending up rocking and shaking in the corner. Oh how I wish I'd listened to the wise old rave heads at the warehouse parties I was at; none of us listened but we soon learnt the hard way!
 
Forms that the dry molecule can take should be irrelevant to the effects of the drug once it is dissolved in the body.
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If that is the case, why are there so many articles about polymorphism being an issue due to how it "affects solubility and bioavailability which are important factors for drug delivery" (Kirsop Labs)?

In 1997, Henck showed that polymorphism has a major impact on pharmaceutical compounds and drug delivery. Polymorphism can influence the formation and properties of medicine both on active ingredients and excipients, fillers, stabilizers, coatings, drying agents, etc. The properties are related to use, efficacy and stability of the drugs. The key factors for preparation of drugs are dissolution rate and solubility, both of which determine the bioavailability of a drug. Dissolution rate and solubility will be influenced by the formation of hydrates, solvates, metastable forms and amorphous forms.
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Link: http://kirsoplabs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Sample-article-for-example-1.pdf
 
Also the amount of MDMA that's taken would dictate a lot of what kind of high would be experienced. For example, if I was to take anywhere between 50-80mg; I would get that lovey euphoria radiating through my body without the amphetamine-like speediness and anxiety that's common with doses upwards of 100-150mg.
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Unfortunately, that is not the case for the specific issue that we are discussing in this thread. Dosage (whether raised or lowered) does not alter the quality of the experience to be more like typical MDMA. The amphetamine qualities are lacking (even at high doses), and the euphoric/loved up qualities are lacking in all dose ranges.
 
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