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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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One concern I have is that as MDMA moves into mainstream therapeutic settings, that efforts will be made to strip it of every quality except for that which benefits the therapeutic goal; that the whole of that honest/authentic experience may be blunted. Eventually, it will become an elite experience and the value of the individual experience outside of therapy will not be acknowledged.
I agree this is something to keep an eye on. I think the intentions of people at MAPS lean in the opposite direction: to democratize access and support individual flourishing. But it will take work to ensure psychedelics transform healthcare instead of healthcare transforming psychedelics.

@fasterfb Thanks for the welcome! I'm skeptical that MDA contributes meaningfully to the toxicity of MDMA, but there could certainly be other mechanisms for grapefruit juice smoothing your roll. If it works for you, great!
 
I agree this is something to keep an eye on. I think the intentions of people at MAPS lean in the opposite direction: to democratize access and support individual flourishing. But it will take work to ensure psychedelics transform healthcare instead of healthcare transforming psychedelics.

@fasterfb Thanks for the welcome! I'm skeptical that MDA contributes meaningfully to the toxicity of MDMA, but there could certainly be other mechanisms for grapefruit juice smoothing your roll. If it works for you, great!

I agree on your assessment of the MDA metabolite and toxicity. It’s sad that a really amazing substance has kind of been tainted because someone did poor research and posted it on Reddit.

GFJ also contains antioxidants that I assume do a lot more than enzyme inhibition.

-GC
 
@MBaggott The article you posted regarding the liver has me thinking.

In my early years of ecstasy use, I used a traditional oral contraceptive pill. It was a mix of ethinyl estradiol and norethindrone acetate. Around 2005/2006 I switched to an Indian birth control that is a selective estrogen re-uptake modulator (ormeloxifene).

The change in birth control occurred roughly around the same time my change in ecstasy occurred. Unfortunately, I did not keep detailed notes at that time, so I don't have anything I can reference.

Is it possible that metabolic changes resulted from this change that could have drastically altered the way my body processed (and was impacted by) MDMA?

This would not explain all my friends and my partner who also note the same changes in the roll, so I doubt this is the answer to the question. It definitely makes me wonder though.
 
If the quality of the experience were influenced by metabolic enzymes, would the route of administration have an effect?
 
According to this thread : https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=154716 the only way to really understand what the problem is is to recrystallise multiple times mehdma until a very pure product is obtained, bio-assay it and analysing the remaining liquors to identify the synth by-products.

I mean professional chemists in the above thread agree that purity is the issue, so why don't we stop talking and try with an actual scientific method, if we don't try first we can keep adding theories on theories without excluding any.
I wish I could do this test myself but due to my personal circumstances i really can't.
That's what we should use :)
files.php
 
That picture is of ultra pure hydrated polymorph of MDMA. I’ve honestly never seen one so big. Whoever did that takes ALOT of pride in their work. The fact it’s exactly an Oz makes it even more impressive.

Just read that whole thread. First off I find it odd how much vash/pastors typing changed from here to there. He’s able to actually construct sentences. There are discrepancies though same as in here.

Unfortunately that forum is full of elitist asshats.

-GC
 
first post in that forum is written by Indigo and posted by me, I gave Vash access to my account because registrations are closed and I'm not that good neither in English language or chemistry.
the fact that someone in that forum is able to create such a beauty , well they deserve at least our attention.
Unfortunately that forum is full of elitist asshats.
totally agree with you, but everyone said the same: purify the product then check what's wrong.
 
@mooka

I totally agree that we need to "purify the product then check what's wrong."

That is why it was so disappointing and frustrating when Vash's associate lost the separated impurities that needed to be tested.

However, Vash and others have suggested that re-crystallization is not going to be enough to separate the impurities without running a column.

Which is why I am asking if anyone here can walk me through that process step by step. I have product here that has been acetone washed and re-crystallized and still is not right. Tell me what to do with it. The few instructions I have seen have started with a tremendous amount of product. I am never going to have that much product. I don't operate like that. How can I run a column on a small amount of product?
 
That picture is of ultra pure hydrated polymorph of MDMA. I’ve honestly never seen one so big. Whoever did that takes ALOT of pride in their work. The fact it’s exactly an Oz makes it even more impressive.

Just read that whole thread. First off I find it odd how much vash/pastors typing changed from here to there. He’s able to actually construct sentences. There are discrepancies though same as in here.

Unfortunately that forum is full of elitist asshats.

-GC

What, that's an MDMA crystal? Fuck me, that's gorgeous...


But is that even possible?

I'm willing to accept a large and perfect crystal can be formed by an expert chemist, but to have it weigh in at exactly 28g is either purely coincidence, or fake.
 
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@mooka

I totally agree that we need to "purify the product then check what's wrong."

That is why it was so disappointing and frustrating when Vash's associate lost the separated impurities that needed to be tested.

However, Vash and others have suggested that re-crystallization is not going to be enough to separate the impurities without running a column.

Which is why I am asking if anyone here can walk me through that process step by step. I have product here that has been acetone washed and re-crystallized and still is not right. Tell me what to do with it. The few instructions I have seen have started with a tremendous amount of product. I am never going to have that much product. I don't operate like that. How can I run a column on a small amount of product?
recrystallise more times, at least 4 or 5, using lab grade IPA.

Recrystallization is a laboratory technique used to purify solids based on their different solubilities. A small amount of solvent is added to a flask containing an impure solid. The contents of the flask are heated until the solid dissolves. Next, the solution is cooled. The more pure solid precipitates, leaving impurities dissolved in the solvent. Vacuum filtration is used to isolate the crystals. The waste solution is discarded.
Summary of Recrystallization Steps
  1. Add a small quantity of appropriate solvent to an impure solid.
  2. Apply heat to dissolve the solid.
  3. Cool the solution to crystallize the product.
  4. Use vacuum filtration to isolate and dry the purified solid.
Let's take a look at the details of the recrystallization process.

Add the Solvent
Choose a solvent such that the impure compound has poor solubility at low temperatures, yet is completely soluble at higher temperatures. The point is to fully dissolve the impure substance when it is heated, yet have it crash out of solution upon cooling. Add as small a quantity as possible to fully dissolve the sample. It's better to add too little solvent than too much. More solvent can be added during the heating process, if necessary.


Heat the Suspension
After the solvent has been added to the impure solid, heat the suspension to fully dissolve the sample. Usually, a hot water bath or steam bath is used, since these are gentle, controlled heat sources. A hot plate or gas burner is used in some situations.
Once the sample is dissolved, the solution is cooled to force crystallization of the desired compound.


Cool the Solution for Recrystallization
Slower cooling may lead to a higher purity product, so it's common practice to allow the solution to cool to room temperature before setting the flask in an ice bath or refrigerator.
Crystals usually begin forming on the bottom of the flask. It's possible to aid crystallization by scratching the flask with a glass rod at the air-solvent junction (assuming you are willing to purposely scratch your glassware). The scratch increases the glass surface area, providing a roughened surface on which the solid can crystallize. Another technique is to 'seed' the solution by adding a small crystal of the desired pure solid to the cooled solution. Be sure the solution is cool, or else the crystal could dissolve. If no crystals fall out of solution, it's possible too much solvent was used. Allow some of the solvent to evaporate. If crystals do not spontaneously form, reheat/cool the solution.
Once crystals have formed, it's time to separate them from the solution.


Filter and Dry the Product
Crystals of purified solid are isolated by filtration. This is usually done with vacuum filtration, sometimes washing the purified solid with chilled solvent. If you wash the product, be sure the solvent is cold, or else you run the risk of dissolving some of the sample.
The product may now be dried. Aspiring the product via vacuum filtration should remove much of the solvent. Open-air drying may be used as well. In some cases, the recrystallization may be repeated to further purify the sample.

a video here:
 
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Which is why I am asking if anyone here can walk me through that process step by step.
Are all your questions answered after watching the YouTube videos which pop up when you search it for "Column Chromatography" ?

These videos do not show what to do with non-colored impurities but I think they would show up under UV. What do you think @Vector ?
 
What, that's an MDMA crystal? Fuck me, that's gorgeous...


But is that even possible?

I'm willing to accept a large and perfect crystal can be formed by an expert chemist, but to have it weigh in at exactly 28g is either purely coincidence, or fake.

I almost didn’t believe it myself and somewhat wonder if the scale numbers were altered. That said, I’m fairly certain of it being hydrated MDMA.

I’ve seen pics online of hydrated polymorph MDMA around 10g crystals so any size is possible I assume with enough product and the right technique.

Here’s another pic of different hydrated MDMA batch for comparison. Notice the sloped edges.


-GC
 
how would you make hydrated mdma? just mixing ipa with little water as solvent?
 
That picture is of ultra pure hydrated polymorph of MDMA. I’ve honestly never seen one so big. Whoever did that takes ALOT of pride in their work. The fact it’s exactly an Oz makes it even more impressive.

Just read that whole thread. First off I find it odd how much vash/pastors typing changed from here to there. He’s able to actually construct sentences. There are discrepancies though same as in here.

Unfortunately that forum is full of elitist asshats.

-GC
Those elitelists on sciencemadness crack me up man cause half those idiots are from nz and pretend to be chemists while the other part of the forum is engaged in trading selling/buying and sourcing of shelcude 1 precursors for New Zealand and australia. Then have the audacity to flame and call people junkies. A quick glimpse and you see somebody in NZ trying to get supplies for what is probably a tikhal cook or DMT synthesis. Though its impossible to tell what substance a crystal is by looking it is a beautiful crystal. Im not sure who took over the shulgin lab but he did have some people he taught and was close to you before he passed to continue on his research. If only Sasha was still alive he would give a straight answer.
 
Just now getting around to reading this full article: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory

“Thanks, good to know. But we have an issue with purity,” I say. “We noted some unusual impurities that have reduced our yield, so we were hoping we might be able to get a reduction in price.”

Man, it does seem like such an unusual "coincidence" that the issues people are noting coincided with such a significant change in production methodology.
 
Just now getting around to reading this full article: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory



Man, it does seem like such an unusual "coincidence" that the issues people are noting coincided with such a significant change in production methodology.
PMK has been used since very early 2000's and had become the mainstream precouser by 2003. It doesn't matter what the first one is as it always lead to the ketone to which mdma is made from its the process after that which affects the final product.
 
Just now getting around to reading this full article: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory



Man, it does seem like such an unusual "coincidence" that the issues people are noting coincided with such a significant change in production methodology.

The guy speaking is a journalist, not a chemist. He's just making up problems as an easy out from the meeting. He talks to an actual MDMA chemist in the article who seems to have no problems with the product they are producing using PMK-glycidate.
 
I almost didn’t believe it myself and somewhat wonder if the scale numbers were altered. That said, I’m fairly certain of it being hydrated MDMA.

I’ve seen pics online of hydrated polymorph MDMA around 10g crystals so any size is possible I assume with enough product and the right technique.

Here’s another pic of different hydrated MDMA batch for comparison. Notice the sloped edges.


-GC

At least the one you linked to looks like a real crystal, the one on the scales looks too perfect - like a lump of ice fresh out of a mould...
 
Those elitelists on sciencemadness crack me up man cause half those idiots are from nz and pretend to be chemists while the other part of the forum is engaged in trading selling/buying and sourcing of shelcude 1 precursors for New Zealand and australia. Then have the audacity to flame and call people junkies. A quick glimpse and you see somebody in NZ trying to get supplies for what is probably a tikhal cook or DMT synthesis. Though its impossible to tell what substance a crystal is by looking it is a beautiful crystal. Im not sure who took over the shulgin lab but he did have some people he taught and was close to you before he passed to continue on his research. If only Sasha was still alive he would give a straight answer.
Science madness isn't the hive dude.
U can't just rockup and ask about clearly illegal schedule 1 drug chemistry.scimadness is a mix of all sorts of chemistry.drugs aren't really looked down on there except by the few stuffy brainwashed stiffs who just happen to also be amateur chemists.a lot of hive members went there but there's a way to talk about these things and the thread on this topic was pretty on the edge of what's considered etiquette there.The rest of the members just want to keep the site off the radar due to the way the hive ended (with a TV exposé and legal implications) and bcoz amateur chemistry has enough legal problems
and restrictions that come with it that opening the possibility of being associated with drug chemistry as well is going to cause them more problems.
 
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