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Freewill and Existentialism

KosmicTraveIIer

Ex-Bluelighter
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Apr 6, 2020
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First, I would like to address the question's of existence. What is the point to exist? What is the point to that point? And so forth and so on. Secondly, what would be the point to having free will. Complete control of our experience. I seen none. I cannot understand what the point would be to be alive, let alone be alive and be in control of my body and what I/my body does. Clearly, I have came across dozens and dozens of people who love to propose that they have free will and that they are able to make choices. But what is the point to making a choice? Like, oh my gosh, I chose to drink some water while there are millions of people who are starving and dying all over the world. And I would bet trillions OF trillions OF trillions of dollars on the fact that it is even more scary with even more death and disease in outer space. In other galaxies or even in the very distant future. I cannot fathom why/how anything is happening. It just seems like an infinitely large oxymormon/paradox. That the definition of existence is to exist. Existing..... wow it's so fun... Actually it's not. I hate the anger, laughing, farting, breathing and all of my senses. NOw about the free will part of it, free will seems like something that I do not have. It doesn't even sound like something that anybody could possible have. How could anybody be able to choose between more than 1 option when they are themselves only one being. I am going crazy over the fact that people claim that free will is real and that they possess it. I go out of my way to attempt to prove to those people that it does not exist, never has, and never will. I tell them the past, present, and future has been ordained to happen since forever. Because I will never agree with them that I have free will. WHy, I guess it is because I do not feel that I have the ability to choose what I am doing/experiencing.
 
There's no control in control, that's how yin-yang works -- 2 dots. Good in Evilness -- Evil in Goodness. We have to work to buy our freedom -- money -- even if other galaxies would have beings like us that are able to think/feel, there will always be some sort of currency. There's no logical way as to how a utopian society may ever exist. That's that. Are you having a existential crisis? That's what it seems, more power to you but you don't have to take these pointless flight of fantasies, for what and for who?
 
I am confused as to why people assume that they possess something called "freewill". Yes, I am having an existential crisis and have been since 2009. But really I was wanting to get my thoughts out there to see if anybody can relate to my perception of reality.
 
I actually had a weird dream in 2009 and woke up feeling confused about. Upon awakening I started have a thought in which proposed that everything that has happened in the past had to happen the exact way that it did. I just kept obsessing about that idea. Basically, that the entire past at that point could not have happened at all any differently than the way that it happened. Then, a year later I took two bottles of cough syrup (DXM only) and was taking Paxil. I started obsessing about it more and more until I thought I could prove it. So, total I have obsessed about it 3-4 years and just recently I have been thinking more and more about it. It is not something I can ignore anymore. If people do not want me to talk about it, I will not. I have talked to lots of people about my idea and the majority had mixed feelings concerning it. Overall, my objective is to prove it as a fact. As I can prove how 2+2=4. I do not know if I will ever be able to but I will always try. I actually hope that it is true. That the future is pre-ordained or completely planned out. Like where, when, how, and why I die. I think even me typing this was planned out since forever. It was my fate. As was going to the liqour store 10 minutes ago and buying a cheap $1.10 beer. LOL But I am trying to find meaning with my idea of everything be predestined by God or a Higher Power or by Nothingness.
 
It's not either/or. We can exercise choices within the limitations of the system, but we don't have omnipotence or we would basically be gods. Think of it like playing a video game. There's a lot you can do in the game but your choices are limited to the interface. You're not totally trapped but you also aren't totally fluid either. I find that "spiritual" people tend to spiritually bypass the limitations and act like everything is free, and then they deny their human level experience; and I find that hard determinists get so rational and controlled in their expounding of the issues that it's too entrapping. I tend to take the middle road.

For this reason, it's neither free will vs. deterministic. It's co-creative. You get to decide what you want to do with the hand you are dealt.

Fundamentally, there is no point to anything. None whatsoever. You could take that to a nihilistic place and live there if you wanted, and a lot of people do. Since everything is pointless then living is just a chore, and that leads to cynicism. Or you could take it to a stoic place -- it's all meaningless but you have to be brave in the face of that meaningless, while swallowing your pride.

My solution to existentialism is realizing your creative potential, within defined limitations, and exploring where the boundaries of those limitations are. Life is full of expansion and contraction at various stages, all signifying nothing. Sometimes we cause our own suffering by believing a limitation exists where there is none, and sometimes we jump almost fatally into life with the assumption we are a free and then get struck down by a boundary. The only way to know is to live.

Meaning is something that you get to apply to your circumstances, and you have virtually limitless capacity to apply meaning. It is your one truly free virtue, and its own limit is your own creativity. According to logotherapy (founded by Victor Frankl, who I highly recommend reading into if you want to get some good insight), the only way in which humans are truly free is in our freedom to apply meaning. Two people being tortured may not see it the same way. Two people living a luxurious, pleasurable lifestyle may not see it the same way. Either way, it all turns to dust in the end... but while you're here you get to decide what it all means to you.

The struggle to find meaning is what defines human existence, and not anything objective. So I would further your statement to say... yes, humans are scared of having choice, but I would say the fear runs much deeper than that. Humans are terrified of the fact that nothing they hold dear really means anything. Most refuse to look into that void because it means a real ego death... it's the death of career, family, friends, relationships, "purpose", self-identity, all of it. It is the death of concepts, if taken to its ultimate conclusion. If you can really face that void and come out the other end, then you will realize this:

The bad news is that nothing means anything. The good news is that nothing means anything.

Most people only want to grasp at the good things in life because it reassures them away from this void. Existentialists are a step further along in that they see the pointlessness, but most of them are afraid of taking it to its ultimate conclusion because they don't want to experience the apocalypse it can produce. A minority actually go through the death (usually not by choice, i.e. they have a life threatening illness, get tortured, or put into prison for a long time), and when they come out the other side they have learned how to abide in the emptiness in equanimity. These people are usually very content.

Good luck... you are asking difficult questions, but at least you have the courage to ask them. According to what is meaningful to me, you are doing good work.
 
The idea of eternity and infinity do not help me understand reality either.
It's not either/or. We can exercise choices within the limitations of the system, but we don't have omnipotence or we would basically be gods. Think of it like playing a video game. There's a lot you can do in the game but your choices are limited to the interface. You're not totally trapped but you also aren't totally fluid either. I find that "spiritual" people tend to spiritually bypass the limitations and act like everything is free, and then they deny their human level experience; and I find that hard determinists get so rational and controlled in their expounding of the issues that it's too entrapping. I tend to take the middle road.

For this reason, it's neither free will vs. deterministic. It's co-creative. You get to decide what you want to do with the hand you are dealt.

Fundamentally, there is no point to anything. None whatsoever. You could take that to a nihilistic place and live there if you wanted, and a lot of people do. Since everything is pointless then living is just a chore, and that leads to cynicism. Or you could take it to a stoic place -- it's all meaningless but you have to be brave in the face of that meaningless, while swallowing your pride.

My solution to existentialism is realizing your creative potential, within defined limitations, and exploring where the boundaries of those limitations are. Life is full of expansion and contraction at various stages, all signifying nothing. Sometimes we cause our own suffering by believing a limitation exists where there is none, and sometimes we jump almost fatally into life with the assumption we are a free and then get struck down by a boundary. The only way to know is to live.

Meaning is something that you get to apply to your circumstances, and you have virtually limitless capacity to apply meaning. It is your one truly free virtue, and its own limit is your own creativity. According to logotherapy (founded by Victor Frankl, who I highly recommend reading into if you want to get some good insight), the only way in which humans are truly free is in our freedom to apply meaning. Two people being tortured may not see it the same way. Two people living a luxurious, pleasurable lifestyle may not see it the same way. Either way, it all turns to dust in the end... but while you're here you get to decide what it all means to you.

The struggle to find meaning is what defines human existence, and not anything objective. So I would further your statement to say... yes, humans are scared of having choice, but I would say the fear runs much deeper than that. Humans are terrified of the fact that nothing they hold dear really means anything. Most refuse to look into that void because it means a real ego death... it's the death of career, family, friends, relationships, "purpose", self-identity, all of it. It is the death of concepts, if taken to its ultimate conclusion. If you can really face that void and come out the other end, then you will realize this:

The bad news is that nothing means anything. The good news is that nothing means anything.

Most people only want to grasp at the good things in life because it reassures them away from this void. Existentialists are a step further along in that they see the pointlessness, but most of them are afraid of taking it to its ultimate conclusion because they don't want to experience the apocalypse it can produce. A minority actually go through the death (usually not by choice, i.e. they have a life threatening illness, get tortured, or put into prison for a long time), and when they come out the other side they have learned how to abide in the emptiness in equanimity. These people are usually very content.

Good luck... you are asking difficult questions, but at least you have the courage to ask them. According to what is meaningful to me, you are doing good work.
So if I were to die, I would have no choices to choose at all. And before I was born? I could not have had any freewill, at all, right? Only now that I am alive can I choose. It seems quite peculiar to me that out of nowhere, in 1991 when I was born, that I all of a sudden had freewill. But it very well could be true. It just does not seem logical to me and sounds more than just absurd, on so many Levels.

What really causes any kind of static is the stupid "psychedelic laws" put into place by police and the law makers. It makes me so angry that I can do nothing but be extremely agitated by those people. It turns literally to a violent daydream of me wanting to get in there face until they legalize all psychedelics. Those laws just make my life that much more difficult. But there is nothing I can do directly to eliminate this madness, which causes and is causes more madness.
 
I am confused as to why people assume that they possess something called "freewill". Yes, I am having an existential crisis and have been since 2009. But really I was wanting to get my thoughts out there to see if anybody can relate to my perception of reality.


I have a little test that shows that you do have a free will to exercise.
It is irrefutable.
It is also quite easy.

If you do not see you choosing to take it, or not, for whatever reason you might think of, as you exercising your free will, the test itself will show that you do indeed have a free will.

I have given it often and all who took it agee that it is irrefutable.

Regards
DL
 
What is the point to exist?

What have you been doing to this point?

Working to live, and living to learn and entertain yourself. Right?

Socrates said we were basically living for bread and circuses. Life and entertainment. He either forgot learning and seeking knowledge and wisdom, but may have included those in his circuses definition. IDK.

Regards
DL
 
There's no control in control, that's how yin-yang works -- 2 dots. Good in Evilness -- Evil in Goodness. We have to work to buy our freedom -- money -- even if other galaxies would have beings like us that are able to think/feel, there will always be some sort of currency. There's no logical way as to how a utopian society may ever exist. That's that. Are you having a existential crisis? That's what it seems, more power to you but you don't have to take these pointless flight of fantasies, for what and for who?

You seem to see Yin and Yang as opposites. They are not. They are not in conflict and compliment each other.

More like front and back than good against evil.

Regards
DL
 
Well, people tell me that they have freewill. I have no idea what it is but I know that I do not have it. I mean I know I do not have aids, I think. But let's say I do have AIDS, I do not want to have AIDS. Let's say I have freewill, I do not want to have freewill. People act like having freewill is a good thing. Why? They are desperate for control.
 
x

I did not choose to do that, in fact I did not do that at all. I am being controlled. I have never done anything. Something or someone is/was controlling me. I do nothing. I am something. I do not experience, I am experience. I am under complete control of the Universe. The Universe has rendered me choice-less and completely unfree. I am literally consciousness, but I am not conscious. I am awareness, not aware. I am no more aware now then I was an infinite amount of time ago. I have never done anything, I am doing nothing now, and I will always do nothing. Peaceful, silent, and void.
 
But if I am aware, then I am not able to make a choice. I would not be able to do something, only be something. Because if I am aware, then that would mean I am being something. And if I am being something, then I could not "do" something. Why? Because I cannot be something and do something at the same time. Why? Because I would have to be two different places at once, and that is impossible, since I am only 1 person.
 
x

I did not choose to do that, in fact I did not do that at all. I am being controlled. I have never done anything. Something or someone is/was controlling me. I do nothing. I am something. I do not experience, I am experience. I am under complete control of the Universe. The Universe has rendered me choice-less and completely unfree. I am literally consciousness, but I am not conscious. I am awareness, not aware. I am no more aware now then I was an infinite amount of time ago. I have never done anything, I am doing nothing now, and I will always do nothing. Peaceful, silent, and void.

I caused the control and am not the universe.

Done here. Find a new shrink to help you.

Regards
DL
 
So if I were to die, I would have no choices to choose at all. And before I was born? I could not have had any freewill, at all, right? Only now that I am alive can I choose. It seems quite peculiar to me that out of nowhere, in 1991 when I was born, that I all of a sudden had freewill. But it very well could be true. It just does not seem logical to me and sounds more than just absurd, on so many Levels.

Well, you have discovered a deeper level to this, which I rarely talk about because people think I'm crazy or talking non-sense. But seriously, if you take most wisdom traditions to their ultimate conclusion, you will start to notice these things.

There is no free will vs. determinism because there's nobody making a choice. It's a false dilemma built upon false appearances. There's nobody really in here. Birth is awareness associating to a body-mind and death is awareness dissociating from a body-mind. During the association, body-mind is capable of experience, which is dualistic, and projects an ego that is self-affirming, which believes it's "doing" things in a comparative way. Because the core awareness is unchanging throughout, and because the ego is holographic (emerging or dissolving spontaneously), there is nothing really "making this happen". There's no one doing anything. It's all an appearance.

But this isn't something you can understand by "knowing". It's not even something that is understood because understanding requires mind to experience it, and the experience level is part of the appearance. There is only one true reality and it's not in the world of experience or appearances. So to ask if there's free will or determinism, you need a mind-body based duality to ask the question. The end of mind-body means the end of questions. I'm not saying that to negate the human-level experience, what I'm saying is that the question itself is holographic and one shouldn't worry about it too much. Yes, there is seemingly a world in which these things are happening but they are all projections of a single reality that is unchanging.

It's hard to put this into words.

What really causes any kind of static is the stupid "psychedelic laws" put into place by police and the law makers. It makes me so angry that I can do nothing but be extremely agitated by those people. It turns literally to a violent daydream of me wanting to get in there face until they legalize all psychedelics. Those laws just make my life that much more difficult. But there is nothing I can do directly to eliminate this madness, which causes and is causes more madness.

Some of the appearances that humanity has created are really fucked up. I understand your anger. I feel it's about to get worse. After a protracted lockdown and economic collapse, they're going to roll out mandatory vaccinations with universal tracking technology (ID2020) and then the dystopian shit will really begin. But just remember, it's all an appearance. I'm not saying to spiritually bypass the whole thing... because you have to live your human level experience. Remember, the divine came through as you, so you're OK as you are, and everything is OK, even if the world gets set on fire. It's all a temporary appearance. Core reality never changes.
 
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