Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

[CfZrx]

I hate Kalifornians but I am smart enough not to post it publically....oops

There is something weird about Californians that often upsets me. Have you truly noticed anything about the culture that bothers you? P.S. I think Corona looks bad from a pic posted above by Mr Peabody...that dude in the bed looks like me after I tried taking tons of SudaFed and Dexalone (DXM in pill form, OTC!) to beat a severe flu.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Remember when Jussie committed that attack and everyone believed the official story but it turned out the "conspiracy theory" was actually true? It's probably the same here. China will never admit the virus came from the lab as they'll lose face. It was in their interests to blame it on the food (specifically meat) supply.

Should be interesting to see. I definitely wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

This why arguing with you is pointless. There's piles of experts saying it couldn't be lab made. But you don't trust them, you trust YouTube randoms. Cause they tell you what you wanna hear.

Wuhan has biomedical labs . It's okay as every country has labs for purposes of vaccines and research, everywhere. We have them as does USA.

People have been caught selling the animals for cash on the side before there, also are secretive enough to not compmy with international animal lab standards. The spread of this virus is showing a natural immunity has not happened and is a new highly contagious virus.

I suspect the meat was sold as the virus was just a corona virus and not affecting the viral host animal at all therefore seen as harmless so meat on the side is easy money.

I would not consider human greed and ignorance of following disposal procedures a conspiracy rather an idiot being selfish and making many sick for a quick buck.

It's likely it did come from a lab.

Either way China is at fault and can not help anyone anymore.

 

[JessFR]

Theory that Coronavirus Escaped from a Lab Lacks Evidence

The pathogen appears to have come from wild animals, virologists say, and there are no signs of genetic manipulation in the SARS-CoV-2 genome.

www.the-scientist.com

Nobody can say with absolute certainty that it couldn't have come from a lab. But there is zero good reason to be assuming it right now. And quite reasonable reason to assume that it's natural.

That's what I shall continue to assume until there's good evidence not too. Which I for one am not seeing yet.

 

[novaveritas]

Does it really matter where it came from, bats, pangolins, bsl4 labs or asteroids.

I am agnostic, it quite conceivably could have accidentally come out of a lab. 1977 seasonal flu came from a lab.

In Wuhan there it appears there was an fairly mild intial strain and the nasty strain was created in the hospital by accident after repeated passaging through vulnerable human hosts. The more unpleasant strain and its descendents are the ones causing chaos in Italy and elsewhere.

China may have to carefully consider whether its historic eating everything that moves diet is responsible. Their mix pig and ducks and humans livestock rearing is practically always the source of new influenza variants, and the risks of birds and ferrets in close proximity are obvious.

If you want to get upset about what goes on in BSL4 labs then you should look at the gain of function research on the original SARS that we know went on in mitlitary funded labs in Canada and the USA and elsewhere, really really dangerous research, completely irresponsible, it is not even a good biological weapon, a weapon that blows back and kills your own population is an extremely counterproductive move.

China has been pretty impressive so far, they have unleashed their biotech on sorting the problem,
Take testing, China turns around the gold standard PCR RNA test in less than 2 hours, which is what needs to happen. In the West the labs frig around and return results in 2 days.
China like Taiwan has deployed the rough and ready 15 minute antibody test, a test that is not available in the West, a test that also picks up previously infected but now recovered cases. The western health protection agencies will not roll out the rough and ready test because they have their own test in development and a bunch of weasels who are incompetent and slow who plan to make a lot of money out of testing. Choice, buy the ready available test from China available to ship in its millions or wait on the morons to finish their new test which will be just as accurate or inaccurate as the Chinese test but will be ten times more expensive and unavailable for months. Selling the Chinese test in the USA Europe and Australia is illegal.

if people want to get angry they should get angry that the medicines regulators: the EMA in Europe the FDA in the USA and TGA in Australia are not expedite and speed the approval and licensing process using the Chinese testing data to get tests available to people right now, instead the bureaucrats are more concerned with preserving their petty rules and protecting their weasel buddies. The medicines regulation process is not fit for purpose, burn it down, all of it.

the same thing is going to happen with antiviral drugs. The medicines regulation process is not fit for purpose, burn it down, all of it.

There are people preaching isolation and bunker mentality, which is extend and pretend, there are others who are looking for angles to actually fix the problem, if that means stepping on toes then that is just fine, stamp on those toes.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

Theory that Coronavirus Escaped from a Lab Lacks Evidence

The pathogen appears to have come from wild animals, virologists say, and there are no signs of genetic manipulation in the SARS-CoV-2 genome.

www.the-scientist.com

Nobody can say with absolute certainty that it couldn't have come from a lab. But there is zero good reason to be assuming it right now. And quite reasonable reason to assume that it's natural.

That's what I shall continue to assume until there's good evidence not too. Which I for one am not seeing yet.

Assumptions are just that and I disagree it just happened and more than enough doubt about origins to be suspicious of a lab.

 

[JGrimez]

China may have to carefully consider whether its historic eating everything that moves diet is responsible. Their mix pig and ducks and humans livestock rearing is practically always the source of new influenza variants, and the risks of birds and ferrets in close proximity are obvious.

I saw something about them closing down some of their wet markets. China seems to be pretty aware of how precarious the global food situation is. They've been buying up farmland all across the world mostly near the equator, which aligns with what might happen during a Grand Solar Minimum. If some extreme glaciation begins to extend out of the poles then we will most likely see mass migration towards the tropics. Africa may be our next major agricultural zone.

the same thing is going to happen with antiviral drugs.

97% of American antibiotics are produced in China. China's pig population was decimated recently and pig organs are used to produce certain drugs. I even heard of a Boston-area hospital that couldn't do certain heart procedures due to a lack of drugs (this was before Corona)..

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(19)30328-5/fulltext

From the International Journal of Infectious Diseases on excess deaths from 'influenza-like illnesses' in ITALY for the 2014/5 and 2016/17 winter seasons.

READ THE NUMBERS!

"During the study period, 136,686 ILI-attributable excess deaths were estimated using the full model (IA + ET effect). The average annual mortality excess rate (MR) ranged from 40.6 to 70.2 per 100,000.

The total number of excess ILI-attributable deaths during the 2014/15 season was 41,066, 65.6% higher compared to the previous season. During the 2016/17 season, the number of ILI-attributable excess deaths was 43,336, 57.9% more than the previous season."
To simplify: 43,336 people died from 'influenza-like illnesses' over the winter of 2016/17 in Italy. On average 10% of such excess deaths involve a coronavirus.
THEREFORE: A strain of coronavirus killed 4,333 people over the winter of 2016/17 in Italy.
This winter season (which is nearly over), 1,400 people have died in Italy, presumably as a result of a strain of coronavirus.
You may now return to freaking out. Over nothing.

"Here’s the trick about the reports of overrun hospitals. Before the announcement of the coronavirus epidemic, people who showed up at those hospitals, with flu, flu-like symptoms, lung infections, pneumonia would be placed in the general wards and treated, or even sent home with drugs.

"But now they would, many of them, be called “presumptive cases” of coronavirus, without any tests at all, or after tests which don’t work (see my prior articles on why the diagnostic tests are useless and deceptive). By labeling these patients “contagious coronavirus,” the hospital doctors are forced to send them to the ICU, to “protect others from the infection.”

"Thus, these ICUs are crowded and overflowing.

"Which of course, will lead to many more people dying" (mgb)

 

[JGrimez]

Professor Gilbert Deray, head of the nephrology department at the Pitié-Salpêtrière (Paris)

Coronavirus, warning danger, but not the one you think.

For 30 years, from my hospital observatory, I have lived through many health crises, HIV, SARS, MERS, resurgence of tuberculosis, multi-resistant bacteria, we have managed them calmly and very effectively.

None of them have given rise to the current panic.

I have never experienced such a degree of concern for one infectious disease and indeed for any other.

And yet, I am not worried about the medical consequences of the Coronavirus. There is nothing in the current figures on mortality and the spread of the virus that justifies the global health and especially economic panic.

The measures taken are appropriate and effective and will allow the epidemic to be brought under control. This is already the case in China, the initial and by far the largest outbreak of this infectious agent, where the epidemic is now dying out.

The near future will tell if I was wrong.

However, on the other hand,

- I am concerned about the theft of masks and that those needed to protect healthcare workers and people at risk, our elderly and those already ill, especially immunocompromised patients, are distributed with zero effectiveness in airports, cafés and shopping centres.
- I am concerned about the theft of cleaning gels.
- I am concerned about the brawls to buy toilet paper and boxes of rice and pasta.
- I am concerned about the terror that leads to obscene stockpiling of food in countries where it is available in equally obscene abundance.
- I am worried for our elders who are already alone and who should no longer be seen or touched for fear of killing them. They will die faster but "only" of loneliness. We used not to visit our parents and grandparents if we had the flu, not to avoid them "just in case" and for an indefinite period of time, it is no different for the coronavirus.
- I am concerned that health is becoming an object of belligerent communication and conflict like any other, when it should be the ultimate cause of struggle in the gathering.
- I am concerned that our health care system, already in great difficulty, will soon be overwhelmed by an influx of sick people at the slightest sign of influenza-like illness. That will mean all the other illnesses that we will not be able to deal with. A myocardial infarction or appendicitis are always emergencies, a virus rarely.

The media coverage on the coronavirus is very anxiety-provoking and it contributes to everyone's panic.

This leads to the craziest conspiracy theories of the kind, "they are hiding something from us". Nothing is obscure, it is impossible in medicine in this digital world where scientific knowledge is immediate and unfiltered.

The coronavirus kills (almost) only already fragile organisms.

I am worried that this tiny living being will only reveal the immense fractures and fragilities of our societies. The deaths that will then be counted in the millions will be those of the confrontation of individuals in the total indifference of the collective interest.

Gilbert DERAY, Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital, Paris

 

[JGrimez]

Why this Draconian Response to COVID-19?

Why this Draconian Response to COVID-19?

Are we really ready to imprison the world, wreck financial markets, destroy countless jobs, and massively disrupt life as we know it, all to forestall some uncertain fate, even as we do know the right way to deal with the problem from a medical point of view? It’s at least worth debating.

www.aier.org

^they're pointing out that Americans have been quarantined on cruise ships and then forced to pay for their later hospitalization. The government that quarantines you has zero intention to pay the costs associated with your care, to say nothing of the opportunity costs of missing work.




^"Did you know that Bill & Melinda Gates, the CIA, the World Economic Forum, Bloomberg / Johns Hopkins, the UN Foundation & more ran a scenario for a Cor-na Virus Pandemic in December 2019? I have clips from that event to share with you as well as other shocking material."

 

[Captain.Heroin]

HIV, haemorrhagic fever viruses and TB are definitely something to panic about.

This corona virus is not something to panic over.

 

[JessFR]

Assumptions are just that and I disagree it just happened and more than enough doubt about origins to be suspicious of a lab.

You say that you disagree that it just happened like that's something unlikely, like that it's doubtful this would have happened on its own.

But it's not, this was something that was always bound to happen. That's why there's no reason to think foul play.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

At this point it is quite academic

 

[Hylight]

And those " perfect storms"

could be all of the above.
doesn't really matter, except in
collective consciousness and preventative maintenance.

 

[S.J.B.]

Here's an interesting chart from the Financial Times. Looks like we're all headed for Italy numbers:

 

[Shady's Fox]

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You say that you disagree that it just happened like that's something unlikely, like that it's doubtful this would have happened on its own.

But it's not, this was something that was always bound to happen. That's why there's no reason to think foul play.

I actually think it was bio-engineered as well, and have pointed out my reasons for believing this. I am not just agreeing with Daisy to be a thorn in your side and am open minded enough to believe it could be a virus that jumped the species barrier.

It's equally plausible scientists study what indicates such a virus has done this jump and then just created one that fits the bill so that they cover all their tracks.

Iran has a lot to gain by fucking up the global economy, China/US mega-powers, making our GDP/economies crash as theirs is already going to by design. I've thought Iran has something to do with this.

It's also not a coincidence it has infected higher ups in Iran. I doubt China brought this on themselves, unless it is part of their economic end-game to suck all the money out of America. But, Xi went missing for a while and wears a face mask, as if he's worth saving. 8( Iran has also been videotaped digging a lot of mass graves as if they are trying to slim down on the population.

US also has a lot to gain from this, especially if it was engineered to hit Iran/China/EU harder. The fact China did NOT want to let the info regarding the virus out in the beginning is very telling. Trump's total indifference to the pandemic is very telling.

 

[JessFR]

Sorry but I think this all sounds really silly. Nobody is benefiting from this.

And what most scientists seem to be saying is that we don't have the technology to plausibly create something like this at a genetic level. I have no reason not to believe that.

It's impossible to entirely rule out man made, but I think it's very silly to be talking about it like it's likely right now.

 

[JGrimez]

You don't have a great track record with predictions



Blaming it on bat soup absolves the government from any responsibility.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Sorry but I think this all sounds really silly. Nobody is benefiting from this.

And what most scientists seem to be saying is that we don't have the technology to plausibly create something like this at a genetic level. I have no reason not to believe that.

It's impossible to entirely rule out man made, but I think it's very silly to be talking about it like it's likely right now.

US, China, Japan and Russia all have germ warfare labs and the technical capabilities of what they could make far exceed the devastation of this virus.

It was a calculated move, all signs point to that considering it is mistakable for simple flu symptoms at first, 5 to 14 days where you can be contagious and show no symptoms...

You do realize Trump was very close to starting a war with Iran, right? It makes all the sense in the world to me that instead of fighting with missiles and bombs they just release a pandemic.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You don't have a great track record with predictions

Blaming it on bat soup absolves the government from any responsibility.

To be fair I"m totally open to all perspectives and possibilities, so I am not saying I "have to be" right, but there's a lot of things that point toward that direction.