KnowsNotWhatItMean
Bluelighter
Having a lot of one substance which only makes you feel ok is basically how I see me as being addicted to it, so naturally, I do suck.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Misc Are benzos and opiates more addictive compared to other drugs?
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KnowsNotWhatItMean
Bluelighter
I swore I would quit benzos, but it always happens, these situations where I still take one here and there, as an instinctive reaction or a fix, whenever I feel like I'm losing it, so yeah. I can see how one could become hooked like that.
When I was only on temaz 20mg I would get nasty anxiety and feel spun the duck out until I persuaded them to give me diazepam and I have intercourse withdrawal with that need my script four hours to go then morphine prefab and diazepam then sleep this speed off and mdma from nye.
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP
Bluelighter
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Yeah I've got to say when it comes to analyzing addicts from a general perspective, nobody struggles like they do with opiates. It's not a one-and-done quit process like it can be for some with alcohol, cocaine, etc. I've yet to meet a single person or hear of it even being possible for one to not relapse on opioids/heroin unless they've lost 100% access.. You'll cross borders to score the feeling again. Not like it's entirely hopeless, but relapsing in a way has to be part of the process for quitting it seems.
Btw... what is phenibut? Does it help with opiate withdrawal?
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somnilicious
Bluelighter
Yeah I think it is a combination of opiates ability to kill anxiety, give euphoria, still allow sleep and be so easy to function under the influence, while not feeling intoxicated, where as with other drugs they just don't seem to be able to hit all those points at the same time. Then you also have the long withdrawal symptoms and lack of sleep, not being able to eat and just plain depression that last forever.
Meth seems to be another one but I hate not sleeping and eating, plus being paranoia sucks...plus the diminishing returns seem to show themselves much sooner.
Phenibut is a legal supplement that is a gabapenteniod that also affects the Gaba-b receptor like GHB. It does help with opiate withdrawal.
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP
Bluelighter
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You pretty much nailed it in regards to opiates.
Also, I wish meth was not so commonplace. It's not a get out of jail for free card stimulant. Prolonged use will really take a lot out of you. There are functional meth addicts but I've never met them. They must only be on the internet because everyone I know who has touched it has basically never been seen again. There are definitely far more functional heroin users.
KnowsNotWhatItMean
Bluelighter
I have come to feel about my use of opiates as them being a short acting antidepressant which makes me able to fully appreciate being a completely functional positive and well minded human being for a moment, with chronic pain being the reason I turned towards them, I feel that it would be effective as a medicine in these regards only if I were to be taking it constantly, but that's where it all starts making a lot more sense and gets less impractical.
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP
Bluelighter
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Yes
It's one of the best short term anti-depressants. Making many people self-medicate for grief, heartbreak, etc. Of course it stops working longer term as an anti-depressant, but in the beginning it really does blast the bad mood vibes away without having a crash like stimulants. I wish opiates didn't exist but then again it does have an irreplaceable role in chronic pain situations. Kind of the devil though and they come after you like the grim reaper if you disrespect them.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
What's more or less addictive is largely down to individual preference for certain drug classes.
For example I don't understand stim addiction. I am scripted amphetamine and accordingly I take it daily, but I use it prescribed and feel zero temptation to abuse it. In fact if I take more than I should I just feel anxious and it's not pleasant at all.
On the other hand if you put a huge pile of morphine in front of me I'd increase my dose with my tolerance and it'd be gone pretty quickly.
Most people would probably categorise both amphetamines and opiates as addictive drugs, but only one is addictive to me as an individual. It's well known in the drug scene there are broadly "upper people" and "downer people", and while some like both, I find the vast majority have a preference and even someone who likes both will usually prefer one over the other.
So what you have isn't drugs that are "more addictive" but rather drugs with a high dependence liability. That is drugs most likely to cause addictive behaviour in certain individuals.
Opiates, benzos, amphetamines, cocaine, and alcohol all fit this bill.
But you will notice if you look at the stats that most users still do not become addicted to these drugs.
For example there are 85 million prescriptions for benzodiazepines in the US alone (as of 2008 ). It is difficult to estimate the number of illicit users for obvious reasons, but we know that doctors check for signs of addiction in prescribed users (e.g. frequent dose increases) and that such users are an overall minority. Additionally, the market for street benzos is minuscule compared to the pharma trade. I'm sure we've all seen sites and articles about the Xanax bar pressing scene, the best of those pressers can pump out a few hundred thousand bars, maybe a million tops if it's a huge operation, per month to supply dealers across the country. Compare to 85 million scripts, if we assume for the sake of simplicity each of those is for only 30 pills a month, that adds up to 2,550,000,000 pills a month. That's just over two and a half billion pills a month in the US alone.
And booze clearly causes a lot of problems for alcoholics, and as a substance it is by far the most physically harmful, but nonetheless most people tend to drink responsibly.
Opiates I would say are the trickiest little fuckers for addictive potential. Addiction still affects only a minority, but it's a larger minority than any other drug. For example 24% of people who try heroin become addicted. The number of patients scripted opiates legally who become addicts is likely a lot lower. But it's still more likely than becoming addicted to benzos or booze statistically speaking.
For example I don't understand stim addiction. I am scripted amphetamine and accordingly I take it daily, but I use it prescribed and feel zero temptation to abuse it. In fact if I take more than I should I just feel anxious and it's not pleasant at all.
On the other hand if you put a huge pile of morphine in front of me I'd increase my dose with my tolerance and it'd be gone pretty quickly.
Most people would probably categorise both amphetamines and opiates as addictive drugs, but only one is addictive to me as an individual. It's well known in the drug scene there are broadly "upper people" and "downer people", and while some like both, I find the vast majority have a preference and even someone who likes both will usually prefer one over the other.
So what you have isn't drugs that are "more addictive" but rather drugs with a high dependence liability. That is drugs most likely to cause addictive behaviour in certain individuals.
Opiates, benzos, amphetamines, cocaine, and alcohol all fit this bill.
But you will notice if you look at the stats that most users still do not become addicted to these drugs.
For example there are 85 million prescriptions for benzodiazepines in the US alone (as of 2008 ). It is difficult to estimate the number of illicit users for obvious reasons, but we know that doctors check for signs of addiction in prescribed users (e.g. frequent dose increases) and that such users are an overall minority. Additionally, the market for street benzos is minuscule compared to the pharma trade. I'm sure we've all seen sites and articles about the Xanax bar pressing scene, the best of those pressers can pump out a few hundred thousand bars, maybe a million tops if it's a huge operation, per month to supply dealers across the country. Compare to 85 million scripts, if we assume for the sake of simplicity each of those is for only 30 pills a month, that adds up to 2,550,000,000 pills a month. That's just over two and a half billion pills a month in the US alone.
And booze clearly causes a lot of problems for alcoholics, and as a substance it is by far the most physically harmful, but nonetheless most people tend to drink responsibly.
Opiates I would say are the trickiest little fuckers for addictive potential. Addiction still affects only a minority, but it's a larger minority than any other drug. For example 24% of people who try heroin become addicted. The number of patients scripted opiates legally who become addicts is likely a lot lower. But it's still more likely than becoming addicted to benzos or booze statistically speaking.
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
A thousand times worse! No other drug can even touch on alcohol withdrawal.
dopamimetic
Bluelighter
Oh yeah, these anti-smoking vids featuring a guy still smoking in hospital after limb amputation are scary for sure. But what made me stop smoking was the simple calculation of that smoking half a pack a day apparently sums up to inhaling roughly a coffee cup of tar per year. I just don't have to do this to my only body I have.. so I've switched to e cigar.. and am enjoying the boost in endurance it gave me.
But ketamine and liver toxicity, really? I thought the main concern was the bladder, and neurotoxicity not yet ruled out (or rather the opposite, according to some recent study showing visible changes in users after 0,5g/d for 1 or 1,5years and above.) What's a pretty heavy dose, even with K, as said I am a hardcore dissonaut but my dose's still way below 100mg of 2F-DCK per day. Also changes are not toxicity per se.
I don't remember stating that, strange. Assuming it wasn't edited for me, I meant bladder. One can lose their bladder with ketamine abuse/addiction.
Yeah there are neurological considerations.
I can't really comment. Only used it a few times and was never really in the ketamine-using subculture.
Yeah there are neurological considerations.
I can't really comment. Only used it a few times and was never really in the ketamine-using subculture.
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP
Bluelighter
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I've heard from some that ketamine abuse results in inability to hold your bladder in long term use. Is this true lol? Sounds awful.
Stimulants and opiates feel 80% similarly to me (the up). Both are equally euphoric, make me care-free, alleviate anxiety, and allow me to function for a bit. I don't like the weight loss component of stimulants and drying skin factor though, and stimulants cause pretty substantial paranoia after the up dies down. @Wilson Wilson stimulant addiction is just chasing the euphoric up like how heroin addicts chase the euphoria from redosing. The up part is really what we're after. We just accept the crash as a consequence though, lol. I don't think stimulant addiction is pretty in the slightest. I'm lucky I'm very limited by the quantity available which is very low per month. But I think it's somewhat vague to describe drugs like many do in terms of "uppers" and "downers." Some have properties that cross into both categories. Too much stimulant use and you'll lose your mind pretty early on, even faster with meth binges. I don't know any functional meth addicts that have lasted very long.
I didn't find ketamine to be addictive but then again the k in the US is not very good probably.
Stimulants and opiates feel 80% similarly to me (the up). Both are equally euphoric, make me care-free, alleviate anxiety, and allow me to function for a bit. I don't like the weight loss component of stimulants and drying skin factor though, and stimulants cause pretty substantial paranoia after the up dies down. @Wilson Wilson stimulant addiction is just chasing the euphoric up like how heroin addicts chase the euphoria from redosing. The up part is really what we're after. We just accept the crash as a consequence though, lol. I don't think stimulant addiction is pretty in the slightest. I'm lucky I'm very limited by the quantity available which is very low per month. But I think it's somewhat vague to describe drugs like many do in terms of "uppers" and "downers." Some have properties that cross into both categories. Too much stimulant use and you'll lose your mind pretty early on, even faster with meth binges. I don't know any functional meth addicts that have lasted very long.
I didn't find ketamine to be addictive but then again the k in the US is not very good probably.
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ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
Oh yeah, these anti-smoking vids featuring a guy still smoking in hospital after limb amputation are scary for sure. But what made me stop smoking was the simple calculation of that smoking half a pack a day apparently sums up to inhaling roughly a coffee cup of tar per year. I just don't have to do this to my only body I have.. so I've switched to e cigar.. and am enjoying the boost in endurance it gave me.
But ketamine and liver toxicity, really? I thought the main concern was the bladder, and neurotoxicity not yet ruled out (or rather the opposite, according to some recent study showing visible changes in users after 0,5g/d for 1 or 1,5years and above.) What's a pretty heavy dose, even with K, as said I am a hardcore dissonaut but my dose's still way below 100mg of 2F-DCK per day. Also changes are not toxicity per se.
You see people outside hospitals smoking literally hours after an operation to amputate a leg due to smoking-related problems. It's scary.
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
I wouldn't even want to do Ketamine. The K-Hole sounds fucking terrifying.
Juniper Bruhmomentius
Bluelight Crew
Try simultaneous lyrica and xanax withdrawal
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
Try simultaneous lyrica and xanax withdrawal
I've tried simultaneous heroin, methadone, xanax and zopiclone withdrawal. Not shit compared to alcohol withdrawal.
Only alcohol wd has a HIGH rate of death (I know benzo's can too, but much less commonly)
Only alcohol has caused such violent seizures that I have broken and dislocated bones (I have broken a total of 9 ribs, cracked open my orbital socket, fractured my clavicle, broken a finger, dislocated my shoulder, hair-line fractured my hip, cracked my ankle bone and dislocated my elbow)
Only alcohol withdrawal gave me a SIX MINUTE seizure. It also started while in the emergency room (I was there after a previous seizure). They obviously treated me immediately but neither diazepam or lorazepam brought me out and then had to put me into a phenobarbital coma to make it stop. They said if I had been ANYWHERE but already in hospital I would have definitely died.
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Juniper Bruhmomentius
Bluelight Crew
I was fucking seazuring when I went 4mg xanax for a year to 25mg valium. The drugs you mentioned arent like lyrica which boosts benzo and has the worst mental withdrawal of all drugs I have tried.
Lyrica is a fucking lovely deadly drug.
I was taking 600mg lyrica and 4mg xanax for a year. Lyrica has withdrawals you wouldnt even believe if I told you even after just 2 days of using for me.
Lyrica is a fucking lovely deadly drug.
I was taking 600mg lyrica and 4mg xanax for a year. Lyrica has withdrawals you wouldnt even believe if I told you even after just 2 days of using for me.
Juniper Bruhmomentius
Bluelight Crew
Lyrica made me borderline btw. It fucked u my brain for the rest of my life
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
Lyrica cannot "make you borderline". It's a physical problem that shows up on MRI brain scans.
I'm not saying those meds aren't awful to withdrawal from - like I said I've withdrawn from that combination above which includes most of the worst drugs to come off - alcohol is just worse.
IMO anyway.
Withdrawals from different things is different for different people, obviously.