Opioids What to expect from kratom withdrawal

[NorwegianElkhound]

Been taking high doses of red bali kratom almost every day for at least a month, with a few hydro/oxycodone and one fentanyl experience thrown into the mix. When I go throughout the day without taking it the day after taking it, I get this slight nauseous feeling...placebo? Don't know if I would be feeling withdrawals that soon, and if I get distracted enough or take some amphetamine or something, I don't even notice it. My substance abuse doctor says I will definitely withdraw though, he'll probably give me promethazine and lorazepam to help.. I used to be on sub maintenance through him, but I really don't want to be dependent on anything at all.

Any idea on how intense this is going to be, how long until I feel it, and how long it'll last? Any tips at all that don't involve taking other opioids?

 

[negrogesic]

The main part of kratom withdrawal is over pretty quickly. By day 4-5 the physical withdrawal is pretty much over. Look into black seed oil capsules, its particularly useful for kratom withdrawal.

What is large doses?

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

The main part of kratom withdrawal is over pretty quickly. By day 4-5 the physical withdrawal is pretty much over. Look into black seed oil capsules, its particularly useful for kratom withdrawal.

What is large doses?

Typically at least 8 grams, when I get the powder I'm not too sure, I just dump a shit load of powder into a bottle and dissolve and drink.

 

[negrogesic]

Typically at least 8 grams, when I get the powder I'm not too sure, I just dump a shit load of powder into a bottle and dissolve and drink.

How many times per day? If its 8g/day i wouldn't expect much.

The hard part with kratom withdrawal is at night. Once you get going during the day its not so bad. Amphetamine will be very helpful during the day.

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

How many times per day? If its 8g/day i wouldn't expect much.

The hard part with kratom withdrawal is at night. Once you get going during the day its not so bad. Amphetamine will be very helpful during the day.

Really depends. Somedays I'll go through at least 20g, not all at once though.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

One time I went without it thinking that I'd be fine and said "it won't be so bad." Went a full 24 hours without it and didn't feel a damn thing so I just assumed there wouldn't be any withdrawal at all (lol!) All the sudden I went to lay down and it hit me like a brick. The restless leg and arm syndrome is appalling with kratom specifically, but I didn't encounter depression or hardcore anxiety like with oxycodone withdrawal. Depression and anxiety are monsters even without drug use, so I'm grateful kratom wd isn't as devastating internally. I also couldn't sleep at night whatsoever but during the day slept constantly? I was REALLY tired... couldn't keep my eyes open to even watch TV.

So I feel comfortable stating that the physical aspect of kratom withdrawal is quite brutal but the mental aspect is more benign. I think with real opiates the brain is more dependent on it for mood stability. Find something to knock you out hardcore at night or else you'll just be tossing and turning in bed for 8 hours straight. Kicking kratom is a shorter ride like someone mentioned, but the hardest part is that it's legal and ultra-accessible. Like booze, you can just buy it whenever without restrictions from legal issues. The real question to ask yourself, is that if it does get bad enough would you cave in and buy more? At least with true opiate addiction you can not go back to the doctor's office or delete your dealer's contact info and call it a day. Kratom is a beast to kick... don't underestimate it!

PS: can you do me a favor and repost in this thread what it's like once you're going through it? Not many people have gone through it. I'm just curious to see what it's like for other people. To finalize my thoughts, I'd rather go through 3 kratom withdrawals in a row than to encounter oxycodone withdrawal all over again. Nothing like kicking true opiates and waking up everyday with life being a 0.5/10 and hating every second of breathing air. Makes you want to kill yourself (I'll never do it though) Maybe I've had a great life.. but withdrawing from oxy was really the lowest point I've ever been at so far. I never want to experience anything that dark again.

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

One time I went without it thinking that I'd be fine and said "it won't be so bad." Went a full 24 hours without it and didn't feel a damn thing so I just assumed there wouldn't be any withdrawal at all (lol!) All the sudden I went to lay down and it hit me like a brick. The restless leg and arm syndrome is appalling with kratom specifically, but I didn't encounter depression or hardcore anxiety like with oxycodone withdrawal. Depression and anxiety are monsters even without drug use, so I'm grateful kratom wd isn't as devastating internally. I also couldn't sleep at night whatsoever but during the day slept constantly? I was REALLY tired... couldn't keep my eyes open to even watch TV.

So I feel comfortable stating that the physical aspect of kratom withdrawal is quite brutal but the mental aspect is more benign. I think with real opiates the brain is more dependent on it for mood stability. Find something to knock you out hardcore at night or else you'll just be tossing and turning in bed for 8 hours straight. Kicking kratom is a shorter ride like someone mentioned, but the hardest part is that it's legal and ultra-accessible. Like booze, you can just buy it whenever without restrictions from legal issues. The real question to ask yourself, is that if it does get bad enough would you cave in and buy more? At least with true opiate addiction you can not go back to the doctor's office or delete your dealer's contact info and call it a day. Kratom is a beast to kick... don't underestimate it!

PS: can you do me a favor and repost in this thread what it's like once you're going through it? Not many people have gone through it. I'm just curious to see what it's like for other people. To finalize my thoughts, I'd rather go through 3 kratom withdrawals in a row than to encounter oxycodone withdrawal all over again. Nothing like kicking true opiates and waking up everyday with life being a 0.5/10 and hating every second of breathing air. Makes you want to kill yourself (I'll never do it though) Maybe I've had a great life.. but withdrawing from oxy was really the lowest point I've ever been at so far. I never want to experience anything that dark again.

Sure thing, I've got 7 grams left and will likely get another 30 and then quit. Might be a couple days from now

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Sure thing, I've got 7 grams left and will likely get another 30 and then quit. Might be a couple days from now

It might help to taper down (if it's too bad when it occurs). Kratom doesn't feel like pharmaceuticals where if you taper down over a period of time you don't really notice the depression or anxiety/mini withdrawal effects that much. If you tapered off of suboxone or percocet, you'd really notice the difference in use when cutting back and be miserable. This makes kratom more friendly to just cut back before you make the final plunge. But that does draw it out more. good luck!

I've been wondering how effective it would be lately to just get off kratom via short term oxy use because people do the vice versa where they use kratom to get off real opiates during withdrawal. But that would be something that requires a great knowledge of the composition of each which not many people have or care about haha

 

[speedballs_over]

While I suspect OP's w/ds will not be all that bad, if they are rather than returning to kratom why not try buprenorphine fast taper, like 4-mg, 3-mg, 2-mg, 1-mg, 0.5, 0.25, 0.125 and off - spaced out ? days b/w. Whatever is comfortable but FAST.

Y0u do not want to trade a kratom habit for an opioid mu-agonist! That's kinds obvious.

It might be killing a fly with a hammer thing... but done right and not done to excess - don't get high off the sub, if you do stop a day and lower the dose by a good bit - and try again from a lower does, heck 0.5-mg may be all you need as a start point. Should be a little safer than an full mu-agonist taper - bupe being less re-enforcing.

IDK for certain - just trying to help.

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

While I suspect OP's w/ds will not be all that bad, if they are rather than returning to kratom why not try buprenorphine fast taper, like 4-mg, 3-mg, 2-mg, 1-mg, 0.5, 0.25, 0.125 and off - spaced out ? days b/w. Whatever is comfortable but FAST.

Y0u do not want to trade a kratom habit for an opioid mu-agonist! That's kinds obvious.

It might be killing a fly with a hammer thing... but done right and not done to excess - don't get high off the sub, if you do stop a day and lower the dose by a good bit - and try again from a lower does, heck 0.5-mg may be all you need as a start point. Should be a little safer than an full mu-agonist taper - bupe being less re-enforcing.

IDK for certain - just trying to help.

I don't think the doctor is going to put me back on subs to be honest. And it might just open up a new door anyway. I'll ask him though

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

It might help to taper down (if it's too bad when it occurs). Kratom doesn't feel like pharmaceuticals where if you taper down over a period of time you don't really notice the depression or anxiety/mini withdrawal effects that much. If you tapered off of suboxone or percocet, you'd really notice the difference in use when cutting back and be miserable. This makes kratom more friendly to just cut back before you make the final plunge. But that does draw it out more. good luck!

I've been wondering how effective it would be lately to just get off kratom via short term oxy use because people do the vice versa where they use kratom to get off real opiates during withdrawal. But that would be something that requires a great knowledge of the composition of each which not many people have or care about haha

Damn, I'm on 10g red bali right now and I'm really gonna miss this stuff. It makes me feel better than diphenoxylate (I've only had that in the form of lomotil though) and about the same as low-low mid dose of codeine, and on top of that, it immediately takes away the nausea I deal with all day until taking it. God, I love opioids so fucking much, my favorite drug class besides weed, but I wish they didn't have this curse that goes along with them

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I too love opiates.

They improve the quality of life when you're on them. I genuinely believe that. They are the absolute best anti-depressant I will ever and have ever encountered. That's what makes them so devastatingly hard to quit. Of course as time passes they're just a dead end and you'll be taking higher doses with more side effects. Kratom is the least offensive in terms of the rest, but even that is just a dead end. Imagine having to take 20 grams of kratom 5 times a day? Within time that's where it'll lead. I wish the USA would just legalize opiates and I could be hooked for decades to come but I suppose inevitably we should all learn how to appreciate life sober (lol!). The withdrawals fucking suck, and realistically traveling is impossible unless you're down to withdraw hardcore in a new location. I remember three years ago I said at the end of the year I would just quit and suffer the consequences no matter what. Unfortunately, the dark part is you could be two decades later still playing with needles. When that legendary feeling hits you it's far too easy to underestimate and ignore what's happening in front of you. I really do think it's the strongest addiction in all of human history. Their reputation is undeniable.

Only those wealthy and those who have an unlimited seed tea resource can enact the lifestyle. Everyone else at one point or another gets smashed to the ground. Even many chronic pain patients feel the negative long term effects of perpetual use. It's not a realistic addiction to maintain. Better to just get out now. "There's no telling how much worse it will get." That's what a former heroin addict told me. Each day it becomes more true. At least kratom keeps me at bay from the evil stuff moooost of the time. But even kratom isn't good enough. Eventually you just crave the real deal. Your doses are low enough that getting the hell away from it won't be so bad at the moment. I recommend doing that if you can. The stone cold truth is that many people can not quit and opiate addiction is a life sentence. I'm setting aside three weeks to withdraw in January when I have nothing to do. We can feel horrible together Depression besties!

 

[burn out]

It might help to taper down (if it's too bad when it occurs). Kratom doesn't feel like pharmaceuticals where if you taper down over a period of time you don't really notice the depression or anxiety/mini withdrawal effects that much. If you tapered off of suboxone or percocet, you'd really notice the difference in use when cutting back and be miserable. This makes kratom more friendly to just cut back before you make the final plunge. But that does draw it out more. good luck!

I've been wondering how effective it would be lately to just get off kratom via short term oxy use because people do the vice versa where they use kratom to get off real opiates during withdrawal. But that would be something that requires a great knowledge of the composition of each which not many people have or care about haha

I got off kratom with a few days of codeine and it worked great. I would not recommend oxy, it's way too strong.

 

[negrogesic]

Kratom depresses the hell out of me, definitely does not possess the anti-depressant properties of tramadol.

The main problem with kratom is I find myself gagging down 5-6 grams every 4 to 5 hours chasing a high that only occasionally materializes. I only go to it as landing gear after ive been using other opioids for a bit too long, although the extracts can have some recreational potential. Its like the n-ethylhexedrone of opioids though, very compulsive (i'll take it all till i run out). Youre chasing something that might have materialized a few times and when it did it was never great if you're honest with yourself.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

It's true with kratom I've only had a killer high a cuople of times. Only used it to avoid opioids but if you're used to the feeling of opiates in general it at least stasifies your brain enough to make it think it's been fulfilled. I don't think it's made me depressed? But I've heard this a couple times from multiple people that it creates depression. I can't tell anymore where my depression comes from when it occurs at this point lol

Negro-how did you feel coming off opioids using only kratom? I've kicked without knowing kratom existed but I've got to get off them soonish

 

[negrogesic]

Negro-how did you feel coming off opioids using only kratom? I've kicked without knowing kratom existed but I've got to get off them soonish

It works pretty well, though feels inconsistent at times. I'd recommend 4 grams of "red bali" as needed. It's pretty easy to get readdicted however so watch out for this. What are you coming off of?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

It works pretty well, though feels inconsistent at times. I'd recommend 4 grams of "red bali" as needed. It's pretty easy to get readdicted however so watch out for this. What are you coming off of?

IR oxycodone 30 mg tablets. I seriously want to get off them or at least take a notable break, I just don't want to feel horrible anymore after everything that's happened the past 3 years. They help me elevate my mood and work as an anti-depressant/good pain reliever but it's just too powerful tbh

I'm beginning to think opioids are just as bad as heroin if not more.

 

[NorwegianElkhound]

I too love opiates.

They improve the quality of life when you're on them. I genuinely believe that. They are the absolute best anti-depressant I will ever and have ever encountered. That's what makes them so devastatingly hard to quit. Of course as time passes they're just a dead end and you'll be taking higher doses with more side effects. Kratom is the least offensive in terms of the rest, but even that is just a dead end. Imagine having to take 20 grams of kratom 5 times a day? Within time that's where it'll lead. I wish the USA would just legalize opiates and I could be hooked for decades to come but I suppose inevitably we should all learn how to appreciate life sober (lol!). The withdrawals fucking suck, and realistically traveling is impossible unless you're down to withdraw hardcore in a new location. I remember three years ago I said at the end of the year I would just quit and suffer the consequences no matter what. Unfortunately, the dark part is you could be two decades later still playing with needles. When that legendary feeling hits you it's far too easy to underestimate and ignore what's happening in front of you. I really do think it's the strongest addiction in all of human history. Their reputation is undeniable.

Only those wealthy and those who have an unlimited seed tea resource can enact the lifestyle. Everyone else at one point or another gets smashed to the ground. Even many chronic pain patients feel the negative long term effects of perpetual use. It's not a realistic addiction to maintain. Better to just get out now. "There's no telling how much worse it will get." That's what a former heroin addict told me. Each day it becomes more true. At least kratom keeps me at bay from the evil stuff moooost of the time. But even kratom isn't good enough. Eventually you just crave the real deal. Your doses are low enough that getting the hell away from it won't be so bad at the moment. I recommend doing that if you can. The stone cold truth is that many people can not quit and opiate addiction is a life sentence. I'm setting aside three weeks to withdraw in January when I have nothing to do. We can feel horrible together Depression besties!

I have trouble getting my hands on the real deal as far as pills, and heroin isn't even really around anymore, if I tried I'd probably end up with fentanyl and RCs every time which I want to avoid. So kratom fills the void. Sometimes it hits the spot, (only the red bali though. Ive tried maeng da and Thai and those are pretty much a waste of money to me) but you're right I still crave the real thing.

This class of drugs has given me so much, but even more importantly they have taken so much from me. I got kicked out of the drug court program because I couldn't stop using heroin. Did a year and jail and the whole time I fantasized about opiates/oids. So I come home from jail and go on binges on and off for a while, but when I get clean, I have a felony on my record so i come out of these binges in a state of hopelessness - I may never be able to get a job I really want, and even if I get one that pays well, it might make me miserable. I had dreams, I never wanted to do HVAC or construction. So if I can't follow my dreams, I get even more depressed and the desire to use comes again.

That and the fact that my reputation has somewhat been ruined by my drug use. If people find out I have used heroin in the past, a lot of them don't want anything to do anymore even if I'm clean, even if using drugs has no real bearing on my personality, they still look down on me. "Only stupid people do heroin." I know it's not necessarily true but those words cut deep anyway because so many people think that and I have to keep a big chunk of myself a secret most of the time.

This might be the hardest thing I've ever had to do so far, but I'm glad I have a community here I can talk to with anonymity. I'm going to be posting updates as I go along.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I feel the same way as you at times. Whenever I'm actually sober, I'm rewarded with a flat and grey world where nobody cares if I'm clean or not. It makes me have little incentive to do so because at least using makes me happy *temporarily* Sober people will never be able to understand the difficulty of avoiding relapses. Either that, or they just don't care. My mother could not stop heroin for the life of her for most of her life. She worked as a hospital clerk and seems as happy as can be. Maybe some opportunities are totally lost but the happiness part isn't in the long run. Sometimes life fucking sucks and you have to figure out how to accept it as is and react appropriately.

It's evil stuff man. Sympathies.

 

[negrogesic]

Heroin and opioids are the same thing. They are just as bad/good.

I guess the problem is that we woke up on a rock spinning somewhere in space at a thousand miles an hour and we're all going to die, so there is some cause to seek some comfort.