For whom should i vote???

[Wilson Wilson]

Reeeeeeee Tory scum! ❤ Interesting that you would expect someone to think that about you.

I don't really care about other people's politics for the most part, even when I think they're completely wrong. The purpose of general elections is to sway and convince the - maybe - 25-35% of the electorate who are malleable and actually can be swayed at any given time. Not the majority who already have relatively strong or fixed socio-political identities. And anyway, most of those political identities are pretty deterministic and come from our inherent personality types, moral codes, and the ways we each interpret and perceive the world, and can thus be fairly predictable once you know a person well enough.

Which means, to some extent, we're little more than genetic algorithms lacking the kind of true agency and independence over our preferences we like to think we have. And much like I wouldn't blame a duck for quacking and a dog for slobbering all over people, I don't have many axes to grind at people just because they have different politics. Which is a roundabout way of saying that, though I may disagree with someone, it would never occur to me to judge them solely and simplistically on political views alone or ignore the context in which they arrive at them.

You are more enlightened and frankly more mature than most and I commend you for that.

It happens all the time online, you criticise Corbyn and his rabid fanboys spam you with accusations of being evil Tory scum and they jerk each other off sensing they've found an "enemy." Ironically I've never seen Tories act like this when I criticise Boris or when I previously criticised Theresa May heavily. Corbynistas talk about how they're so empathetic and caring but they are rabid against anyone who doesn't happen to share their views. It almost feels like I'm talking to people brainwashed by a cult. They practically worship their "Comrade Corbyn." It's honestly kinda sad. But hey at least they're actively driving away floating voters. Whatever it takes to not flush the economy down the toilet.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I will.vote lib dem but my constituency has returned labour mps since 1935 and they got 76.6% of the vote last time so its barely worth the effort.

I am in line with them ideologically and can't stand Corbyn, he expects to attract remain voters but if he got in we'd almost certainly leave with a labour deal. Having an opposition that supports brexit as much as the ruling party, unril their recent ploy for votes, has truly fucked us and that is unforgivable to me.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

What's hilarious is Corbyn has been asked directly what his view on Brexit is many times and has never answered once in his whole time as Labour leader.

If you look at his past he practically spent his whole career before Labour protesting against the EU. We know he is against the EU, but he is playing politics by trying to please everyone with his second referendum all the while refusing to state his own position. Pathetic.

Boris is a right twat but at least he's clear what he stands for. Same goes for Angry Teacher. But Corbyn is all over the fucking place.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

If you must vote...

Spunking cock.

Or Labour. Yes Corbyn is ineffectual. John McDonnell would be better. But Labour are the only alternative to the most right wing government this country is about to elect. Lib Dems are Tories in disguise. See Nick Clegg. And the Tory party are lower than vermin.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

What's hilarious is Corbyn has been asked directly what his view on Brexit is many times and has never answered once in his whole time as Labour leader.

If you look at his past he practically spent his whole career before Labour protesting against the EU. We know he is against the EU, but he is playing politics by trying to please everyone with his second referendum all the while refusing to state his own position. Pathetic.

.

His oracy is piss poor (where McDonnell's isn't) but he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Many post-industrial Labour seats voted for Brexit. And many other Labour seats voted Remain. How is he supposed to please both?

Of course he's playing politics. It's his job. The problem he has is trying to please all Labour voters.

Whereas Johnson is a lieing mendacious cunt who will ruin the less well off in the UK.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

His oracy is piss poor (where McDonnell's isn't) but he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Many post-industrial Labour seats voted for Brexit. And many other Labour seats voted Remain. How is he supposed to please both?

Of course he's playing politics. It's his job. The problem he has is trying to please all Labour voters.

Whereas Johnson is a lieing mendacious cunt who will ruin the less well off in the UK.

You cannot please all the people all the time. He has no problems with strong divisive policies elsewhere in his campaign ("EVERYONE ON 80K IS A SUPER RICH BILLIONAIRE!") which believe it or not will affect his voters as a lot of well off middle class are Labour voters and he is going after them and making them the enemy. Not to mention, in fact, there are plenty of skilled tradesman throughout the country on that type of salary as well. My plumber is on more than £80k, so according to Corbyn my working class plumber is "super rich" and must be a tax dodging billionaire. But that's his prerogative; he's a socialist.

My question is, given his willingness to be divisive elsewhere, where is his harsh stance on Brexit? We know the party policy is a second referendum but what is his view? If he wants to be PM the people have a right to know, and he is absolutely not bringing any trust from people either side of the Brexit debate when we won't be clear on his stance.

What he has actually done is turned both sides against him. Leavers don't trust him because his proposed deal will likely include remaining in the customs union thereby making it Brexit in name only. Remainers don't trust him because he used to campaign against the EU for most of his bloody life and now his refusal to state his position leads them to believe he is still a "secret Brexiteer."

He is pleasing no one with this dance. People vote for leaders who are direct. Say what you will about Boris but he direct. So is Jo Swinson. Opposing views but both direct about them. If you vote for them you're voting for a clear stance.

Corbyn is perceived as a weak leader largely because he flip flops on important issues and refuses to state his views.

As for lying mendacious cunts... this label applies to every single politician about. Corbyn is no more honest than Boris, you said so yourself he is playing politics just as much as everyone else. Playing politics and being honest are mutually exclusive.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

You cannot please all the people all the time. He has no problems with strong divisive policies elsewhere in his campaign ("EVERYONE ON 80K IS A SUPER RICH BILLIONAIRE!") which believe it or not will affect his voters as a lot of well off middle class are Labour voters and he is going after them and making them the enemy. Not to mention, in fact, there are plenty of skilled tradesman throughout the country on that type of salary as well. My plumber is on more than £80k, so according to Corbyn my working class plumber is "super rich" and must be a tax dodging billionaire. But that's his prerogative; he's a socialist.

My question is, given his willingness to be divisive elsewhere, where is his harsh stance on Brexit? We know the party policy is a second referendum but what is his view? If he wants to be PM the people have a right to know, and he is absolutely not bringing any trust from people either side of the Brexit debate when we won't be clear on his stance.

What he has actually done is turned both sides against him. Leavers don't trust him because his proposed deal will likely include remaining in the customs union thereby making it Brexit in name only. Remainers don't trust him because he used to campaign against the EU for most of his bloody life and now his refusal to state his position leads them to believe he is still a "secret Brexiteer."

He is pleasing no one with this dance. People vote for leaders who are direct. Say what you will about Boris but he direct. So is Jo Swinson. Opposing views but both direct about them. If you vote for them you're voting for a clear stance.

Corbyn is perceived as a weak leader largely because he flip flops on important issues and refuses to state his views.

As for lying mendacious cunts... this label applies to every single politician about. Corbyn is no more honest than Boris, you said so yourself he is playing politics just as much as everyone else. Playing politics and being honest are mutually exclusive.

I’m not here to defend Corbyn. I think he’s weak. I probably think he’s weaker than you do, though for differing reasons. But if what you state here is true, then the election will be between Johnson and Swinson. Except it won’t be will it? The LibDems are on for perhaps no more seats, and an even more reduced vote share than in 2017. Ergo, what you say isn’t true. Many, many people will still vote Labour. Millions more than will vote LD.

Can you give me a link for where Corbyn has said “everyone on 80k is a super rich billionaire”? No, you can’t. That’s just hyperbole. What he has said is that people on higher salaries should pay more tax. And I have no problem with that. And yes, it’s called socialism, or at least social democracy. The Labour Party tax plans are well to the right of what the Labour Party in the 1970s has in mind. And that manifesto was not socialist.

And you do know his stance on Brexit. I think you outlined it earlier. His left wing principle is that the EU was created for business interests, not the interests of the working class. Again, I have no problem with this, it’s true. The EU is basically the interests of Germany, though France think they have a say too (they don’t, particularly). But the problem is, as I said, that Labour voters are split between Brexit and Remain and he has to try to appeal to both. To try and pretend that he shouldn’t try and appease both (what is he supposed to do, abandon his voter base?) shows an ignorance of the political system and is also a disingenuous attempt to portray the election as being only about Brexit when a plethora of social and economic issues also still matter to the wellbeing of the population. Despite the fact that all we’ve heard for two years is “get Brexit done”.

The tragedy is that these other issues, important issues, the NHS, the welfare of the (economically) weaker part of the population, will get buried and come 12 months time, 5 years time, Brexit will still not be done. Brexit doesn’t get done when we leave. That’s just the start. Things can only get worse. The average international trade deal takes seven years to set up. We haven’t even started. The fallout from ‘getting Brexit done’ will leave this country fucked for the foreseeable future. Far more fucked than Corbyn’s rubbish oracy.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Regardless of one's political persuasion, the fact that earning over 80K puts you in the top 5% of earners is truly mind boggling and illustrates just how poorly paid the majority of the population actually are; and just how obscenely rich a small minority are.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I’m not here to defend Corbyn. I think he’s weak. I probably think he’s weaker than you do, though for differing reasons. But if what you state here is true, then the election will be between Johnson and Swinson. Except it won’t be will it? The LibDems are on for perhaps no more seats, and an even more reduced vote share than in 2017. Ergo, what you say isn’t true. Many, many people will still vote Labour. Millions more than will vote LD.

Can you give me a link for where Corbyn has said “everyone on 80k is a super rich billionaire”? No, you can’t. That’s just hyperbole. What he has said is that people on higher salaries should pay more tax. And I have no problem with that. And yes, it’s called socialism, or at least social democracy. The Labour Party tax plans are well to the right of what the Labour Party in the 1970s has in mind. And that manifesto was not socialist.

And you do know his stance on Brexit. I think you outlined it earlier. His left wing principle is that the EU was created for business interests, not the interests of the working class. Again, I have no problem with this, it’s true. The EU is basically the interests of Germany, though France think they have a say too (they don’t, particularly). But the problem is, as I said, that Labour voters are split between Brexit and Remain and he has to try to appeal to both. To try and pretend that he shouldn’t try and appease both (what is he supposed to do, abandon his voter base?) shows an ignorance of the political system and is also a disingenuous attempt to portray the election as being only about Brexit when a plethora of social and economic issues also still matter to the wellbeing of the population. Despite the fact that all we’ve heard for two years is “get Brexit done”.

The tragedy is that these other issues, important issues, the NHS, the welfare of the (economically) weaker part of the population, will get buried and come 12 months time, 5 years time, Brexit will still not be done. Brexit doesn’t get done when we leave. That’s just the start. Things can only get worse. The average international trade deal takes seven years to set up. We haven’t even started. The fallout from ‘getting Brexit done’ will leave this country fucked for the foreseeable future. Far more fucked than Corbyn’s rubbish oracy.

You are correct the Lib Undems will probably not gain very many seats. That's because we still use FPTP which pretty much guarantees that strategic voting is a necessity. If we voted to switch to PR instead then we'd be in a very different position today, not having to choose between Boris and Corbyn. But with the way our democratic system is set up, if you don't vote strategically for one of the two major parties your vote is nothing but a protest vote.

Corbyn obviously does not outright say that anyone on £80k is a billionaire but he strongly implies it. Whenever he brings the issue up he sorts us into two categories: poor or billionaire. He doesn't seem to understand that most people reside somewhere in the middle.

The following is a quote from McDonnell I found in a Guardian article that popped up on a quick DDG search:

“If Labour is elected next month we will guarantee that for the next five years there will be no tax rises for income taxpayers earning less than £80,000 a year, no hikes in VAT and no changes in your national insurance contributions either. The Labour party is now the party of low taxes for middle and low earners, while the Tories are the party of tax handouts for the super-rich and big corporations.”

See the part in bold. This kind of statement, which Corbyn himself has echoed in every single one of the televised interviews and debates he's been on, creates a false dichotomy between "the super-rich and big corporations" and "middle and low earners." That's using McDonnell's own words.

Except in the real world, most people on £80k and dare I say it even six figures are not super rich or owners of big corporations. The vast vast majority are salaried employees paying a high rate of tax through PAYE already. As I said, the top 1% alone pays 30% of the entire income tax revenue. But Corbyn is not looking at the top 1%, he is going after anyone on £80k. If that does indeed constitute the top 5% figure he keeps talking about, that means he is going after the source of over 50% of the entire nation's income tax revenue. This is... not a clever move.

I implore you to look at what happened when a socialist party started squeezing high earners in France. Spoiler alert: they all left, jobs were lost, tax revenue fell to the floor, and those socialists had to reverse their policy. The same will happen here if Corbyn gets in.

As for the EU. For once I actually agree with Corbyn on something. The EU does exist to further the business interests of Germany and pretty much for no other reason. If he had some balls he'd come out and say that now he is the leader of the opposition. He'd take a lot of votes away from the Tories if he did. But he won't. He's too weak to state his true position.

As for abandoning his voter base, he's already done that for many reasons. I already gave financial reasons so let me pick something else. In his cabinet is Diane "all white people are racist" Abbott. Does she not know that the vast majority of core Labour voters are the white working class? Who am I kidding, she barely knows what 2+2 is. Why would Labours core voters across the country, especially in the North, the white working class, vote for a party that calls them racist? Based on the colour of their skin too, nonetheless. Extra ironic given Labour's own issue with antisemitism, which again, kind of abandons a voter base does it not?

 

[Jabberwocky]

What's hilarious is Corbyn has been asked directly what his view on Brexit is many times and has never answered once in his whole time as Labour leader.

If you look at his past he practically spent his whole career before Labour protesting against the EU. We know he is against the EU, but he is playing politics by trying to please everyone with his second referendum all the while refusing to state his own position. Pathetic.

Totally agreed. The thing i liked about Corbyn (cos it wasn't his politics) was that you could trust that if he said something 5 minutes ago, he'd say it again now. He has lost that trust by flip flopping on the biggest issue of the past 3 years. Most people aren't stupid enough not to see through him.

That said, if you're in a two way marginal between Labour and the Tories, please vote Labour, much as I like to trash them they're better than the Tories.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

You are correct the Lib Undems will probably not gain very many seats. That's because we still use FPTP which pretty much guarantees that strategic voting is a necessity. If we voted to switch to PR instead then we'd be in a very different position today, not having to choose between Boris and Corbyn. But with the way our democratic system is set up, if you don't vote strategically for one of the two major parties your vote is nothing but a protest vote.

Corbyn obviously does not outright say that anyone on £80k is a billionaire but he strongly implies it. Whenever he brings the issue up he sorts us into two categories: poor or billionaire. He doesn't seem to understand that most people reside somewhere in the middle.

The following is a quote from McDonnell I found in a Guardian article that popped up on a quick DDG search:



See the part in bold. This kind of statement, which Corbyn himself has echoed in every single one of the televised interviews and debates he's been on, creates a false dichotomy between "the super-rich and big corporations" and "middle and low earners." That's using McDonnell's own words.

Except in the real world, most people on £80k and dare I say it even six figures are not super rich or owners of big corporations. The vast vast majority are salaried employees paying a high rate of tax through PAYE already. As I said, the top 1% alone pays 30% of the entire income tax revenue. But Corbyn is not looking at the top 1%, he is going after anyone on £80k. If that does indeed constitute the top 5% figure he keeps talking about, that means he is going after the source of over 50% of the entire nation's income tax revenue. This is... not a clever move.

I implore you to look at what happened when a socialist party started squeezing high earners in France. Spoiler alert: they all left, jobs were lost, tax revenue fell to the floor, and those socialists had to reverse their policy. The same will happen here if Corbyn gets in.

As for the EU. For once I actually agree with Corbyn on something. The EU does exist to further the business interests of Germany and pretty much for no other reason. If he had some balls he'd come out and say that now he is the leader of the opposition. He'd take a lot of votes away from the Tories if he did. But he won't. He's too weak to state his true position.

As for abandoning his voter base, he's already done that for many reasons. I already gave financial reasons so let me pick something else. In his cabinet is Diane "all white people are racist" Abbott. Does she not know that the vast majority of core Labour voters are the white working class? Who am I kidding, she barely knows what 2+2 is. Why would Labours core voters across the country, especially in the North, the white working class, vote for a party that calls them racist? Based on the colour of their skin too, nonetheless. Extra ironic given Labour's own issue with antisemitism, which again, kind of abandons a voter base does it not?

I might do this in reverse order, just because.

If the anti-semitism ‘issue’ was truly about tackling racism in this country then surely the party that is actually full of fucking racists would be the one in trouble. It isn’t. It’s about a stick to beat the Labour Party with, and one that is largely being promoted by some of the most historically vile racist fuckwit media (Daily Mail etc). Corbyn has virtually devoted his life to anti-racism and their are many Jewish organisations both within and without the Labour Party that recognise this. But they don’t have a voice within the Daily Mail etc.

Your point about the white working class does have some resonance. Why indeed would they vote for a party that calls them racist? But this IS recognised by Corbyn et al and that’s why they have been quite careful not to fall into the trap a lot of remainers fall into of calling their own voters racist, of saying that all Brexit voters were racist. They weren’t. Those post-industrial towns voted Brexit because the EU have left them behind, because EU money has not gone to those towns.

The rich leaving countries because of socialism? LOL. It’s always threatened to happen. It has never happened. Phil Collins gonna leave again is he? I wish he fucking would. So what is it? The rich love Britain so much they’ll walk away to a Caribbean island at the first sniff of something outside social democracy? Doesn’t sound very patriotic to me. The rich did not ALL leave France. But you stick with your hyperbole.

We will not be fucked for tax revenue by a few rich fat cats THREATENING US. And they never leave anyway. France is not fucked because what you say will happen, won’t happen and didn’t happen in France. France is not fucked.

I have no problem with taxing people who earn lots of money. Your plumber is not about to leave for Poland.

And as for PR. Well, if the LDs are serious about this, and so hard done by, whydidnt they put any effort into the referendum Clegg fought so hard for - before abandoning once he got his deputy PM job? I’ll give you a bet anyway. LDs will not get 20% of the vote, probably significantly less. I actually agree with PR. But to pretend it would create a “very different position” is frankly wishful thinking. The LDs are weak, with or without PR. Nobody has collapsed their vote quite so successfully in this election as the useless Swinson has managed to do to her party.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I might do this in reverse order, just because.

If the anti-semitism ‘issue’ was truly about tackling racism in this country then surely the party that is actually full of fucking racists would be the one in trouble. It isn’t. It’s about a stick to beat the Labour Party with, and one that is largely being promoted by some of the most historically vile racist fuckwit media (Daily Mail etc). Corbyn has virtually devoted his life to anti-racism and their are many Jewish organisations both within and without the Labour Party that recognise this. But they don’t have a voice within the Daily Mail etc.

Your point about the white working class does have some resonance. Why indeed would they vote for a party that calls them racist? But this IS recognised by Corbyn et al and that’s why they have been quite careful not to fall into the trap a lot of remainers fall into of calling their own voters racist, of saying that all Brexit voters were racist. They weren’t. Those post-industrial towns voted Brexit because the EU have left them behind, because EU money has not gone to those towns.

The rich leaving countries because of socialism? LOL. It’s always threatened to happen. It has never happened. Phil Collins gonna leave again is he? I wish he fucking would. So what is it? The rich love Britain so much they’ll walk away to a Caribbean island at the first sniff of something outside social democracy? Doesn’t sound very patriotic to me. The rich did not ALL leave France. But you stick with your hyperbole.

We will not be fucked for tax revenue by a few rich fat cats THREATENING US. And they never leave anyway. France is not fucked because what you say will happen, won’t happen and didn’t happen in France. France is not fucked.

I have no problem with taxing people who earn lots of money. Your plumber is not about to leave for Poland.

And as for PR. Well, if the LDs are serious about this, and so hard done by, whydidnt they put any effort into the referendum Clegg fought so hard for - before abandoning once he got his deputy PM job? I’ll give you a bet anyway. LDs will not get 20% of the vote, probably significantly less. I actually agree with PR. But to pretend it would create a “very different position” is frankly wishful thinking. The LDs are weak, with or without PR. Nobody has collapsed their vote quite so successfully in this election as the useless Swinson has managed to do to her party.

You do have a point about media bias, that's undeniable. But you're wrong to suggest it's only the Daily Mail publishing these stories. A letter criticising antisemitism in Corbyn's Labour was published in the Guardian for example. I can dig up a link for you if you want. And regardless of the political leanings of the source, it's not fabricated, it's a real thing.

Yes Corbyn is at least not stupid enough to call people who voted for Brexit racist. And he has been smart enough to take Diane Abbott away from the media during the election run up. But people are not stupid enough that they will forget what she thinks of them. And those are the core voters Labour relies on. Corbyn should just get rid of Abbott from his cabinet, she's a fucking liability, I wouldn't be surprised if she is a Tory plant. But ya know, Corbyn shagged her, so she's got a job.

You are being too literal wrt France. No not "all" the rich people left, but enough did, and it had enough of an impact on the economy that the government was forced to reverse its high tax rates.

Here's an article from the Guardian so you can't claim right-wing bias:

France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns

Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-business

www.theguardian.com

Some choice quotes:

Although supported by the left, the reform sparked accusations of an anti-business agenda. After the “supertax” was announced in September 2012 the government was accused of shooting itself in the foot by risking an exodus of high-profile personalities. Business leaders expressed fears that investors would pull out of France.

France’s richest man, Bernard Arnault, the chief executive of luxury group LVMH, took out Belgian nationality, and the actor Gérard Depardieu also moved across the border to Belgium before obtaining Russian citizenship.

...

With the party leftwingers having marched out of government in the days and months following the appointment of the openly pro-business Manuel Valls as prime minister last March, it was only a matter of time before the tax was dropped. The prime minister confirmed it would not be renewed in 2015 during a visit to London in October, where he addressed business leaders.

“The reform clearly damaged France’s reputation and competitiveness,” said Jorg Stegemann, the head of the executive search firm Kennedy Executive. “It clearly has become harder to attract international senior managers to come to France than it was.”

So yes it did damage France significantly. And rich people did seek citizenship elsewhere. Instead of just dismissing facts because you don't like them, try doing some research.

The thing with people who earn a lot of money is they contribute significantly to the tax pool and in the case of business owners are responsible for hiring many of us. If you squeeze them too much, no not all of them will move, but they may very well decide that there is no point in working so hard when they can get an easier job with a lower wage and pay much less tax, perhaps even become eligible for the free shit Corbyn wants to throw around, funded by... debt, presumably, since all the tax revenue will dry up.

Agreed about the Lib Undems. Jo Swinson is also pretty thick according to someone who's met her IRL.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

The higher tax rates he proposes for the UK are nothing in comparison to the taxes we pay on income housing fuel in the down under and yet we our life styles are alot better off than most of the UK. Australians pay up to 49% tax rate over $120 k which is like 70k pounds. Dont be scared off by the naysayers saying Corbyn is going to tax you to poverty. It will bring alot more benefits and rebalance the field. the UK seems to have alot of uber rich people who are born into wealth they should tax inheritance on them by a large margin. Taxes are what makes a society have better things so all can benefit. They should really chase big comapines that hide their tax out in Luxembourg though force google facebook to pay them billions of pounds for tax evasion or cease to operate in the UK.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

You do have a point about media bias, that's undeniable. But you're wrong to suggest it's only the Daily Mail publishing these stories. A letter criticising antisemitism in Corbyn's Labour was published in the Guardian for example. I can dig up a link for you if you want. And regardless of the political leanings of the source, it's not fabricated, it's a real thing.

Yes Corbyn is at least not stupid enough to call people who voted for Brexit racist. And he has been smart enough to take Diane Abbott away from the media during the election run up. But people are not stupid enough that they will forget what she thinks of them. And those are the core voters Labour relies on. Corbyn should just get rid of Abbott from his cabinet, she's a fucking liability, I wouldn't be surprised if she is a Tory plant. But ya know, Corbyn shagged her, so she's got a job.

You are being too literal wrt France. No not "all" the rich people left, but enough did, and it had enough of an impact on the economy that the government was forced to reverse its high tax rates.

Here's an article from the Guardian so you can't claim right-wing bias:

France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns

Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-business

www.theguardian.com

Some choice quotes:



So yes it did damage France significantly. And rich people did seek citizenship elsewhere. Instead of just dismissing facts because you don't like them, try doing some research.

The thing with people who earn a lot of money is they contribute significantly to the tax pool and in the case of business owners are responsible for hiring many of us. If you squeeze them too much, no not all of them will move, but they may very well decide that there is no point in working so hard when they can get an easier job with a lower wage and pay much less tax, perhaps even become eligible for the free shit Corbyn wants to throw around, funded by... debt, presumably, since all the tax revenue will dry up.

Agreed about the Lib Undems. Jo Swinson is also pretty thick according to someone who's met her IRL.

I never said, or even suggested, that it was just the Daily Mail. All the right wing joined in, scared of a bit of social democracy.

I see the Guardian as right wing, just a different shade. Liberal supporting assholes. Establishment backers. I have no interest in them.

It was you who said “all” regarding rich people leaving. I was just quoting you. Sorry for taking you literally.



I’m not denying anti-semitism is a real thing. The Labour Party certainly has its problems with regard to this. But, some perspective. Look at the racism INHERENT in the Tories. Which do you see getting more airtime on the (establishment supporting) BBC?

You’re a bit obsessed with Diane Abbot. Do you have a thing for her? She’s pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. Corbyn shagged her, maybe (were you there?) about 40 years ago.

Yeah. Relevant.

I’d go back to 90% tax for real high earners. Like we had back in the day. But that’s just me. Actually it isn’t just me.

Don’t you think your rail fairs being reduced by a Labour government is a good thing? Or are you choking too much on Diane’s juice to see that?

Spunking cock. Or Labour. It’s up to you.

 

[Soso78]

Yes, of course he's left wing. But that doesn't make him a nonce does it?

The point I was making over the good friday agreement is that it only came about because people were prepared to meet and discuss with known terrorist organisations.

I abhor the IRA and everything they stand for. But the discussions were necessary to bring peace. But that peace is now being compromised by the whole Brexit debacle.

Perhaps anyone that wants peace is also a 'nonce'..?

I never said, or even suggested, that it was just the Daily Mail. All the right wing joined in, scared of a bit of social democracy.

I see the Guardian as right wing, just a different shade. Liberal supporting assholes. Establishment backers. I have no interest in them.

It was you who said “all” regarding rich people leaving. I was just quoting you. Sorry for taking you literally.



I’m not denying anti-semitism is a real thing. The Labour Party certainly has its problems with regard to this. But, some perspective. Look at the racism INHERENT in the Tories. Which do you see getting more airtime on the (establishment supporting) BBC?

You’re a bit obsessed with Diane Abbot. Do you have a thing for her? She’s pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. Corbyn shagged her, maybe (were you there?) about 40 years ago.

Yeah. Relevant.

I’d go back to 90% tax for real high earners. Like we had back in the day. But that’s just me. Actually it isn’t just me.

Don’t you think your rail fairs being reduced by a Labour government is a good thing? Or are you choking too much on Diane’s juice to see that?

Spunking cock. Or Labour. It’s up to you.

Are they paying for reduced rail fair by using road tax money? That don’t seem right considering the state of the roads.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Heheh, I knew SHM would be up for a bit of political debate

Is anyone with me on forming a 'None of this shower of shit' party?

We'd be guaranteed a fuckin majority if that appeared on the ballot papers.

We'll have no leader, no MPs, no manifesto and no fuckin dosh. But we couldn't really do much worse could we..?

 

[Wilson Wilson]

The higher tax rates he proposes for the UK are nothing in comparison to the taxes we pay on income housing fuel in the down under and yet we our life styles are alot better off than most of the UK. Australians pay up to 49% tax rate over $120 k which is like 70k pounds. Dont be scared off by the naysayers saying Corbyn is going to tax you to poverty. It will bring alot more benefits and rebalance the field. the UK seems to have alot of uber rich people who are born into wealth they should tax inheritance on them by a large margin. Taxes are what makes a society have better things so all can benefit. They should really chase big comapines that hide their tax out in Luxembourg though force google facebook to pay them billions of pounds for tax evasion or cease to operate in the UK.

Australia is also one of the most expensive places to live in the entire fucking world. Something that costs £100 here will easily cost double or more down under. Those high taxes will be the reason for that, or at least a large contributor. No thanks.

I never said, or even suggested, that it was just the Daily Mail. All the right wing joined in, scared of a bit of social democracy.

I see the Guardian as right wing, just a different shade. Liberal supporting assholes. Establishment backers. I have no interest in them.

It was you who said “all” regarding rich people leaving. I was just quoting you. Sorry for taking you literally.



I’m not denying anti-semitism is a real thing. The Labour Party certainly has its problems with regard to this. But, some perspective. Look at the racism INHERENT in the Tories. Which do you see getting more airtime on the (establishment supporting) BBC?

You’re a bit obsessed with Diane Abbot. Do you have a thing for her? She’s pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. Corbyn shagged her, maybe (were you there?) about 40 years ago.

Yeah. Relevant.

I’d go back to 90% tax for real high earners. Like we had back in the day. But that’s just me. Actually it isn’t just me.

Don’t you think your rail fairs being reduced by a Labour government is a good thing? Or are you choking too much on Diane’s juice to see that?

Spunking cock. Or Labour. It’s up to you.

I mean you did... you acted like the Labour antisemitism issue was only being pushed by the Daily Mail, you even put scare quotes around "issue" to imply it's not real. It very clearly is. The Chief Rabi said he'd be scared if a Corbyn Labour government got in. Or does he work for the Daily Mail too?

Guardian... right-wing... hahahaha. You're having a fakkin laugh mate you are.

Diane Abbott would be the Home Secretary if Corbyn were to get into power. That's an important position and she's frankly thick as shit and couldn't run a chip shop let alone parts of the bloody country. Remember mate, this is a parliamentary system not a presidential system... you are voting for the party not the leader! Therefore it is absolutely important to look not only at the leader but also the shadow cabinet. And Corbyn's is an utter joke. McDonnell is a fucking clown too.

As per the article I linked and quoted, France did a 75% tax for high earners, had to reduce it to 50%, then had to scrap the policy altogether as the wealth left the country. If you actually put a 90% tax into place you'd crash the economy. If you want to live in a poor socialist nation why not move to Venezuela? Do us a favour and take Corbyn with ya!

As for rail fares... mate right now SWR being on strike means I cannot commute to work at all. I am very lucky I can work from home because the state of those one an hour if you're lucky trains looks like an absolute nightmare. Corbyn, who is mates with the unions, would see a country where there are strikes left right and centre, just as happened under Labour in the past when the rail service was nationalised. Corbyn apparently thinks this is a good model he wants to bring back!

Heheh, I knew SHM would be up for a bit of political debate

Is anyone with me on forming a 'None of this shower of shit' party?

We'd be guaranteed a fuckin majority if that appeared on the ballot papers.

We'll have no leader, no MPs, no manifesto and no fuckin dosh. But we couldn't really do much worse could we..?

ANARCHY IN THE UK!!!

Now it's Friday night and I am British so if you'll excuse me I'm gonna do some MDMA and bang out some tunes. Fuck politics.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Somethings are more expensive alot of things cheaper. pizza in the uk is crazy expensive like x4 more for dominos. Only alcohol is cheap in the UK and cigs. Our min wages in the down under are the highest in the world so thats why everything is more expensive cause people acutally get paid decent money for working brainless jobs. The UK could do the same easily.

 

[Soso78]

Somethings are more expensive alot of things cheaper. pizza in the uk is crazy expensive like x4 more for dominos. Only alcohol is cheap in the UK and cigs. Our min wages in the down under are the highest in the world so thats why everything is more expensive cause people acutally get paid decent money for working brainless jobs. The UK could do the same easily.

Brilliant idea. Pay everyone more wages then make everything more expensive.

 

[Safrolette]

The Labour Party has steered to the left and the Conservatives to the right, leaving a void in that elusive "Centre", which is usually a magnet for most voters. Unless there is some sulking, and a large section of the electorate votes Donald Trump and Brexit. Lib Dems and Greens are nice but often give the impression of being suspended in an idealistic limbo.

ANARCHY IN THE UK!!!
Now it's Friday night and I am British so if you'll excuse me I'm gonna do some MDMA and bang out some tunes. Fuck politics.

Sounds like a plan!