Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

[nuttynutskin]

I've done a lot of research on this. There are two aspects to this to differentiate: developmental and metabolic. Developmental status covers things like bone density, lung capacity, and oxygen metabolism. Those things are determined during puberty and into early adulthood. If a person is developmentally male, they will have more physical advantage than developmental females, for the most part. Males have more density, more innate musculature, larger lung capacity. If someone is developmentally male and they complete their growth, then switching to female hormones will not affect their innate capacities. Estrogen in particular is pro-matrix forming in the bones (and why women get osteoporosis in middle age when estrogen tapers off). A male that is 6'4" who becomes female will still remain 6'4". He/she will have a longer stride for running, larger lungs for swimming, longer arms and muscles for throwing, etc. That will never change.

Then there is the metabolic aspect. This is determined by hormone status, fitness status, nutrition status, etc. A person who sits on the couch all day is not going to have the same metabolic status as someone who trains daily, regardless of their sex.

You can enhance metabolic status, you can't change developmental status. And this is the reason why most MTF trans are outperforming females in the women's category. They have more developmental advantages. We see this over and over with biological males coming out on top in women's sports.

The grey area you're alluding to is the biological males who started hormone therapy before or during puberty, like hormone blockers, etc. Their advantages may be less clear because they are more developmentally female than the group I mentioned above.

If someone like Caitlin Jenner competed in the women's category, she would clean house, and that would be unfair.

The first group, IMO, should not be treated just like women. They are not the same as other women. What they choose to call themselves is irrelevant because they have developmental advantages. We all know it, we all see it, yet we're supposed to pretend we don't and just call them women like any other female athlete. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. I won't subscribe to it.

Exactly... People seem to think it's just about hormones and forget or ignore the developmental status. I was gonna say something about that earlier but you articulated it a lot better than I would've. lol

 

[w01fg4ng]

The developmental status argument sounds like a great reason to allow gender re-assignment surgery to trans-gendered children.

I can't believe that's even a controversial subject when we allow re-assignment surgery as expected and as a standard for intersex children. You guys remember the intersex kids? It's in the OP story, 23 pages back.

 

[JGrimez]

Taking hormones doesn't magically turn you into a real woman. Don't drink the leftist kool-aid.

A rapper in the UK identified as a woman for a day (as a joke) and broke several national powerlifting records.

Or how about Fallon Fox born a biological male who transitioned to a female and got into women's mixed martial arts? Nothing says feminist tolerance more than allowing a male to physically beat up a woman..

 

[JGrimez]

The developmental status argument sounds like a great reason to allow gender re-assignment surgery to trans-gendered children.

I can't believe that's even a controversial subject when we allow re-assignment surgery as expected and as a standard for intersex children. You guys remember the intersex kids? It's in the OP story, 23 pages back.

I got a problem with this promotion of imho child abuse and potentially life-altering or life-destroying surgical procedures onto impressionable or confused children.

 

[w01fg4ng]

I got a problem with this promotion of imho child abuse and potentially life-altering or life-destroying surgical procedures onto impressionable or confused children.

Humans aren't the only animals to have intersex children.

Many animals' normality is being intersex and the odd balls would simply be male or female.

 

[JGrimez]

We are humans we are not some weird lizard. Intersex is very rare and not common. Also it's very different than "trans" or having parents confuse their children to the point that they then question their own gender, so that the parents can accrue social credit among their ideologically-possessed social circle.

 

[JessFR]

I gotta say your arguments remind me so much of those people who say homosexuality is wrong and unnatural and that they should go into conversion therapy.

I have concerns about hormone therapy in children too, but your whole attitude just screams judgemental hate rather than legitimate and honest concern.

 

[JGrimez]

You're very bad at collecting and then assessing information, also you've been brainwashed by leftist propaganda - so I'm not surprised that my desire to protect innocent children is perceived by you as being "transphobic" or whatever.

You probably literally think that 3 year olds can decide their gender/sexuality. Which I find disgusting and on the road to normalising pedophilia. But you're entitled to your opinions and I am forced to respect the manner in which you've come to your conclusions.

 

[JessFR]

You're very bad at collecting and then assessing information, also you've been brainwashed by leftist propaganda - so I'm not surprised that my desire to protect innocent children is perceived by you as being "transphobic" or whatever.

You probably literally think that 3 year olds can decide their gender/sexuality. Which I find disgusting and on the road to normalising pedophilia. But you're entitled to your opinions and I am forced to respect the manner in which you've come to your conclusions.

I don't think you give a shit about the children.

You just equated being transgender with pedophilia. Exactly like those people who would equate homosexuality with pedophilia. It shows yet again that this is all about your disgust at transgender people. It's about your prejudice.

I don't think you give a crap about the children. I think even if it were proven that allowing transition in children would ultimately save more people from issues like suicide than the number that might be harmed because they were somehow "confused",you would still oppose it.

It seems abundantly obvious to me that you aren't interested in helping children, you aren't interested in determining with evidence the best way to help children.

Helping children is just a shield used to validate such opinions. A convenient way to justify your hateful prejudice

 

[JGrimez]

More leftist lies and propaganda. The only way you can interpret my opinions is through the lens of transphobia which is really sad and pathetic (and typical for this agenda).

You can't even grasp that the pursuit of pedophilia is not even based on trans people, it's pushing the idea that children of younger and younger age can consent to sexual-related matters.

Once they're able to convince zombies like you that small toddlers can in fact consent to gender-based decisions, then you will accept the idea of pedophilia. The scary part is not that they're attempting it but that it's working on many people.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

Urgh, kids are kids, it's stupid to do anything to them medically that is life changing in any direction, just teach them to accept differences in the little things like choice of clothing- kids are so nasty and mean at times so wearing a dress if a boy is not going to end well.


That doesn't mean same boy is a girl, let them grow up a little first

 

[JessFR]

More leftist lies and propaganda. The only way you can interpret my opinions is through the lens of transphobia which is really sad and pathetic (and typical for this agenda).

You can't even grasp that the pursuit of pedophilia is not even based on trans people, it's pushing the idea that children of younger and younger age can consent to sexual-related matters.

Once they're able to convince zombies like you that small toddlers can in fact consent to gender-based decisions, then you will accept the idea of pedophilia. The scary part is not that they're attempting it but that it's working on many people.

Nobody is arguing that children consent to sex. You conflating it with transgender issues is just a weak attempt at enticing people into fear.

These are not new arguments. I have heard them all before with homosexuals. It's a cover.

If you were actually concerned with children, you would at least have concern that there may be children out there that, denied these medical procedures, may kill themselves. And you would be partly responsible.

You would want to know the long term outcome in cases where children have transitioned. You would not want to take the risk of hurting children because of your assumptions when you knew you hadn't attempted to learn as much as you could to base a decision on.

Tell me, have you ever attempted to find out? Because if you have not, then this is nothing to do with trying to protect children. It's trying to protect your prejudice.

 

[JGrimez]

I don't think you even realize what a transition entails, as if it's some cure for suicide. You have no idea, and if you're not careful you'll soon be cheering for pedophilia.

Do you believe a 3 year old child can choose their gender?

 

[JessFR]

I don't think you even realize what a transition entails, as if it's some cure for suicide. You have no idea, and if you're not careful you'll soon be cheering for pedophilia.

You didn't answer my question. Have you done any investigation trying to determine the long term outcome of children who transitioned?

If you care about children, I would expect that you have, because you would want to have some certainty in what course of action would likely help the most children.

I do know that transgender people have committed suicide because they felt unable to transition and be accepted. And I know that some of those people were children.

 

[nuttynutskin]

The developmental status argument sounds like a great reason to allow gender re-assignment surgery to trans-gendered children.

Yeah that's a great idea, lets let surgeons hack on children's genitals. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[JGrimez]

Liberalism: not even once.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Children's brains haven't even fully developed. How someone is going to advocate that they should be able to do an irreversible procedure that will change the rest of their entire life is beyond me. Makes me sick just thinking about it.

 

[Xorkoth]

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to push for children to choose gender reassignment (I remember telling my mom I wished I was a girl once, because I wondered what it was like). But I think this conflation to pedophilia is way out of left field and honestly bizarre/disturbing. I don't see this pedophilia angle you're taking. It does read as scaremongering to me.

 

[JGrimez]

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to push for children to choose gender reassignment (I remember telling my mom I wished I was a girl once, because I wondered what it was like). But I think this conflation to pedophilia is way out of left field and honestly bizarre/disturbing. I don't see this pedophilia angle you're taking. It does read as scaremongering to me.

It only seems that way because you haven't looked into it.

Did you know that in 1977 the most famous French postmodernist philosophers (including Michel Foucault, Sartre, Derrida and Simone de Beauvoir) all signed a petition to get the government to remove the age of consent? Thereby legalizing the act between an adult and a child under 15.

In the 80's the ruling party of the Netherlands was seriously suggesting and tried to do similar things.

Think about it - if you were into this type of stuff then where would be the best position for you to be sitatuted, socially and professionally? Well, if you were able to change the laws - and as a precursor to that, influence society and help shape public opinion - then that would be ideal for you to gain acceptance and freedom for these behaviors.

We're literally almost at that point now - everything is seen as a gender expression or sexual preference, children are now able to consent to adult questions based on sexuality, and many of us are starting to realize how rampant this type of stuff is in positions of power.

Then there's a lot of stuff in the media, which some would see as 'brave and powerful' while others would view as insidious and subversive. This is an example of social conditioning to eventually accept pedophilia:

Watch How Consent Is Actually Something TODDLERS Understand

It's like sharing.

www.teenvogue.com

Or segments like this: This is obviously ridiculous to have this person saying these things on network news and could easily just be brushed off as "liberal insanity", but there may be a more planned intent and agenda behind it. Once you see the writing on the wall you notice it a lot more often.

Then there was the example that nobody can deny in the recent kids movie 'Show Dogs' where the producers included a pedophile grooming scene, that was later taken out after parents understandably and thankfully yelled at the producers for being sneaky pedophile perverts.

You wanna ignore all this fine I just hope you won't be cheering it on

 

[mal3volent]

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to push for children to choose gender reassignment (I remember telling my mom I wished I was a girl once, because I wondered what it was like). But I think this conflation to pedophilia is way out of left field and honestly bizarre/disturbing. I don't see this pedophilia angle you're taking. It does read as scaremongering to me.

It is disturbing but not surprising. They just go straight for pedophilia conspiracies these days, no matter what the subject.

I understand the concerns about gender reassignment at a young age. I don't think it's such a black and white issue though. For example, If you don't even accept the idea of being trans in the first place, I could see the shock and outrage. But if you've lived it or been close to someone who has, you realize part of the calculus is trying to avoid the trauma of experiencing puberty and adolescence as the wrong gender. Also the ability to grow into your correct body more gradually where it is not as much of an abrupt change.