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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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In regards to military spending... Trump had to fix what the Obama administration did to it. It was WEAK. Not up to standards at all. Right now, I think our military has recovered so that might be possible to reduce spending in that area somewhat.

Bernie is talking about how if we reduced our defense spending by just 4% and put that into social services we could eliminate a large portion of poverty in our country. We spend the vast majority of our budget on the military, WAY, WAY more than we do on anything else. We could spend just a small percenmtage of that on other things and we would be able to pay for all sorts of stuff. The Republicans right now are giving us the biggest yearly budget deficit in history and it's because of defense spending first, and the tax cuts to the wealthy second. The reason I am supporting some of the dems is because I think it's sensible to focus our money on things that help everyone.

As to the deficit, it'll get bigger and bigger. Doesn't matter who is in the White House and who controls which part of Congress. There has been no sign of fiscal responsibility by anyone elected that I can tell.

Your point about 4% defense spending going a long way for social services is true, I believe. And while waste does exist in the military, one can also ask how much waste there is already in social services - and how do we address that? For years under Obama, the military was told to do as much or more but with less funding. And yet, we kept our soldiers stationed across the Middle East and elsewhere...on less funding. Before Trump goes pumping money back into the military, I'd ask what is it we want to be? Are we still believing we're the global police force? Because we're not. Having that role means spending a lot more than we are and maintaining a presence in places to keep the peace which don't directly effect us that much. On the flipside, if we work at a reduced level, we have to give up a lot of that global policeman responsibility and accept people like Russia (and China at some point) will be stepping into those countries, keeping the peace and fostering their beliefs and global politics - not us. So which is it - spend and lead, or reduce spending and step out of places like Syria and Turkey? I don't have the answer, but I believe that has to be answered first before we get too far into cutting military further.

Usually Trump supporters try to tell me that Obama was doing too much with the military, not that he made the military weak. One of the biggest talking points I usually hear is that Trump is good because he is going to pull us out of our military conflicts. So this is a new one to me, that Trump is good because he increased military spending.

Fuck I can't help it... okay can you explain to me how Obama destroyed the military, and how Trump fixed it? I just haven't heard this one before.

The speaking points from the right, that I can recall off the top of my head, are that Obama weakened the military by allowing women in fighting roles, allowing gays and trans in the military, cutting spending, and tying the hands of our soldiers in how they can engage when deployed. I don't have that great of depth of understanding or recollection, so I may be wrong, but those are what I recall.

For me personally, I get the 'women in combat' thing, but I'll be honest...I'm more afraid of a pissed off woman than I am some manly man with a machine gun. It sounds cavalier and going for a joke, but I kid you not I'd take my chances against any man than against a woman pissed off and ready to die for what she believed in. I just would. As for gays and trans, if you're willing to take a bullet for your fellow soldier, here's your weapon, go get 'em. If I were a soldier, I'd have minimal concerns over sexual issues with such a person in my unit (being unattractive has its benefits) but more importantly, if someone is committed to being a team member and proves I can count on them through training, idgaf what gets you horny as long as we're aligned on what gets us to survive a mission.

The cut spending is my weakest memory. But as I mentioned above, if we're trying to play policeman around the globe, that costs money - and I know Obama preferred to help his fellow Americans at home (the economy DEMANDED it). Add to that we had a reported 6mo of waiting for Obama to green light the hit on bin Laden? That we're stationed in places like Syria, allowing the Kurds to be the ones to capture and detain people and we are what...consultants? That Obama was under pressure to eliminate Guantanamo and the like (taking away military locations and their ability to do their job). Yeah, I can see where the right believes he weakened our military.

Oddly enough, where have there been women in combat, and of those situations how many proved to be a liability? Where have gays or trans in the military proved to be an issue? Where, despite limiting our forces rules of engagement, have we actually lost soldiers or strategic resources? I'm not recalling any such headlines.
 
I totally agree that the media and Democrats have been gung-ho anti-Trump from before he was even elected. ... Just like Repubs were blindly anti-Obama, it's the same bullshit, different side. That doesn't change the picture that is (to me) overwhelmingly clear: the dude has been a fucked president. He inherited a great economy, so you can't credit him with the economy. Actually the economy is slowing, in large part because of his terrible foreign policy. He's dismantled environmental protections, he passed the tax scam to divert more money to the wealthy, tried to take away the largest health care expansion we've had since Medicare, he's weakened our relationships with our allies, he's repealed media antitrust laws. And he's done whatever he wants in office and abused the office for personal monetary gain as well as stuff like this (blackmailing foreign governments for personal gain). I really think he needs to go. I fail to see how he's been a good president and it's very difficult for me to imagine how someone watches what's going on and listens to him speak and reads his tweets and observes his policies can believe that he has altruistic intentions with his presidency.


A few questions here. On the economy he 'inherited'...how long until he can have credit for economic performance in your book? In my book, all Presidents take credit for good things beyond their actual control. As Obama was the most recent, he provides the best comparison. I saw Obama getting kicked in the nuts by the housing bubble - something he had NO control over, and rightfully didn't get blamed for a tanking economy. He oversaw our hitting the bottom shortly after he took office, and rode-guided us back to decent economic performance. How much did he actually have a hand in for the recovery? Does he get any credit? Or blame? Part of me thinks the economy would save itself regardless of who was in office, back to that bit about taking credit where it isn't earned. And I've got several issues with what he did such as TARP program and bailing out Detroit auto makers. There was a LOT of gov't spending to try and save-revive these parts of the economy. I'm more of a mindset to let the strong survive - don't have others bail you out, and get yourself lean if you want to get through the tough times and prosper again. However, at the end of the day, are we going to give Obama credit for us getting out of the recession? Letting you slide on specifics of what he may have done, does he get credit for saving the economy? How long does his 'influence' last?

So turn the page to Trump. Economy is doing better than ever, according to some. Even the naysayers have to admit better employment numbers - want ads speak to that alone. But, my point is, we are 3 years into Trump's time as President. If Obama gets credit for being 3y in and pulling us out of a nosedive, when does Trump start getting recognition for anything positive? My personal view is the positive is largely the market keeping itself alive and regrowing. A President (Obama, and now Trump) get the most credit for not screwing it up. Somehow I feel they have much more power to kill it than do much to grow it. So if I give Obama credit for not fking it up, I have to give the same to Trump. If I give Obama credit for raising it out of recession, I have to give credit to Trump for the continued improvement. Even Obama said at the end of his term, there was no way to improve upon unemployment and other economic factors, that we'd settled into a new norm....then things improved further under Trump. Is Trump that much greater? Again, I say no. President's get credit for not screwing it up. But, how is it getting better after Obama said it couldn't?

We can go deeper into the economic aspects of it all, as each of us have a different view of the US economy, and see different things as good or bad (putting aside different interpretations of numbers like underemployment and such). Bottom line, though, when does Trump get credit? Or is the answer never?

Switching tracks to our allies for a bit. Who would you put in that category and how have the relationships changed? In my view, the major allies are the likes of England, Germany, France, Mexico, and uh....Australia, maybe? I dunno. But I look at European countries, they've allowed massive waves of immigrants, and created for themselves a whole new pot of problems they are trying to sort out now. Immigration is a major topic - how much to help others at their country vs allowing them into yours? What does that mean for your own population? We've had similar from South and Central America for decades that many Presidents have spoken about, some have made efforts to address, but Trump's the first to make it a real priority. But I'm spinning out, let me refocus. As to our 'allies', how much of the global burden have they shared in name versus in practice of boots on the ground, or dollars in areas of need? How much has America footed the bill compared to our 'allies'? And at what cost? Those dollars we wish to cut military spending for so we can bolster our social services...I'm starting to spin out again real quick, but my point is America has been the global policeman, and financial supporter, for decades. We've been paying for our 'friends' and gotten little in return. I'm fine if we cut back on foreign aid, both in military might and in funding, and focus those monies on our own people. Bah, I'm totally borking this up. I better quit for a bit. But I can come back to it if you're up for it.
 
Ugh if Trump cuts aid to California, that’s just so wrong. Why is he banging on about cleaning forest floors again?


We're ALL Americans, I get that. But it's not like these fires are coming as a surprise, we've had them ongoing for years. What has California done to help itself? For the state with the largest GDP, and a leftist government determined to tax, and spend, for the common good...what are they doing to a) prepare in advance, and b) manage them when they occur?

Hurricanes come and hit random states. For the Atlantic coastal states, there are storm protections and structures required by code to protect homeowners; there are insurance programs to recover from damage; people own generators to support themselves given there will be power outages. People prepare. States prepare. These storms are coming, and can't be stopped, but people own the majority of responsibility for what comes. If it is an excessively damaging storm, Federal grant money can be supplied to rebuild.

Similar across the great plains and NE when it comes to winter storms. They are known, anticipated, and prepared for. People own the responsibility of living there knowing this will happen. If it is excessively damaging, a state of emergency can be declared and federal assistance provided.

So California. How ya doin'? Didja not know these were coming? What have you done to limit the damage, prepare to survive should one occur near your home?

I realize this comes off with me sounding like an ass. That it isn't my backyard, so idgaf. That's not it. I've lived in Florida for decades with hurricanes. I've lived in the north with winter storms. In all situations, there has been a level of self reliance required to prepare, and survive. I haven't lived in Cali, so I don't know what's possible. I do, however, see where there could be steps taken to help the situation....and they aren't. Other than the power company shutting people off for days in the chance the power lines 'might' spark a fire. That's a great plan. 8) Can anyone enllighten me as to what Cali has done for itself?

DISCLAIMER: I"m in a foul mood, and likely talking out of my ass just because of it. If I read past the headline, I'm confident I'll find Trump is talking MORE out his considerably LARGER ass with what Cali can do or should have done. If I'm honest, I'm fishing for 'what can Cali do, and what has it done' but with a lot more attitude than is warranted.
 
Switching tracks to our allies for a bit. Who would you put in that category and how have the relationships changed? In my view, the major allies are the likes of England, Germany, France, Mexico, and uh....Australia, maybe? I dunno. But I look at European countries, they've allowed massive waves of immigrants, and created for themselves a whole new pot of problems they are trying to sort out now. Immigration is a major topic - how much to help others at their country vs allowing them into yours? What does that mean for your own population? We've had similar from South and Central America for decades that many Presidents have spoken about, some have made efforts to address, but Trump's the first to make it a real priority. But I'm spinning out, let me refocus. As to our 'allies', how much of the global burden have they shared in name versus in practice of boots on the ground, or dollars in areas of need? How much has America footed the bill compared to our 'allies'? And at what cost? Those dollars we wish to cut military spending for so we can bolster our social services...I'm starting to spin out again real quick, but my point is America has been the global policeman, and financial supporter, for decades. We've been paying for our 'friends' and gotten little in return. I'm fine if we cut back on foreign aid, both in military might and in funding, and focus those monies on our own people. Bah, I'm totally borking this up. I better quit for a bit. But I can come back to it if you're up for it.

Our pulling out of the Paris climate agreement, as well as Trump's discussing of backing out of NATO, as well as tbhe withdrawal of the Mid-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, have all caused our allies, the other countries in these agreements, whom we made promises to for the mutual benefit of everyone, to view us less favorably and trust our word less. Ukraine has been our ally against Russia, and Trump blackmailed them. The worst one, to me, is how he abandoned the Kurds when he pulled out of Syria. The Kurds were one of our biggest allies in the fight against ISIS, putting their own people into constant battle to protect our interests as well as their own. When we withdrew and left them to Turkey (ostensibly to stop policing the world and bring our troops home, but they actually just got sent to Iraq), that was a huge "fuck you" to them. The Turkish want to subjugate and kill the Kurds and our presence there was the main thing stopping them. Our withdrawal was us leaving them to their fate and snubbing them after promksing them we would help protect them. There was an agreement of "you help me, I'll help you", but we backed out at a crucial point, when the Turks were advancing and had declared they would not stop until they had defeated the Kurds. Not only does this severely damage our relationship with our allies the Kurds, it also tells the rest of the Middle East and the world that you can't trust our word. It also passed the power and control in the region to Turkey and Russia. We claim to want to bring Democracy to the world, but we abandoned an ally to the attack by an authoritarian government bent on conquest (Turkey).

The net result of this is that people see that we can't be trusted. It is also turning our backs on people who put their lives on the line for years to help us, and were in charge of holding ISIS prisoners, right when they needed the protection we had promised the most. To me this would be unforgivable even if we really did bring our troops back home, but we didn't even bring them home. I think we should never have gotten involved the way we did in the Middle East, but we are where we are, the situation over there is partly our responsibility because of our oil wars, and the way Trump handled it was awful and callous. Something that really concerns me is that, for better or worse, we live in a world where there is a global economy, and isolationism is no longer viable. I am concerned that our global position will be disrupted to the point that the US dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency. Right now we are in a strong position because our currency is what the world's economy is based on, so we can print money willy-nilly and it is worth something. If we lose our status as the world's reserve currency, we will start to see a profound reduction in the dollar's actual value on the world stage and it could spell very big trouble for our economy and spending power. Russia and China are vying to usurp our role as the biggest economy in the world and our foreign policy decisions are pretty crucial right now. Trump's actions thus far have not given me confidence that we have the right person in charge at this uncertain time.

A few questions here. On the economy he 'inherited'...how long until he can have credit for economic performance in your book? In my book, all Presidents take credit for good things beyond their actual control. As Obama was the most recent, he provides the best comparison. I saw Obama getting kicked in the nuts by the housing bubble - something he had NO control over, and rightfully didn't get blamed for a tanking economy. He oversaw our hitting the bottom shortly after he took office, and rode-guided us back to decent economic performance. How much did he actually have a hand in for the recovery? Does he get any credit? Or blame? Part of me thinks the economy would save itself regardless of who was in office, back to that bit about taking credit where it isn't earned. And I've got several issues with what he did such as TARP program and bailing out Detroit auto makers. There was a LOT of gov't spending to try and save-revive these parts of the economy. I'm more of a mindset to let the strong survive - don't have others bail you out, and get yourself lean if you want to get through the tough times and prosper again. However, at the end of the day, are we going to give Obama credit for us getting out of the recession? Letting you slide on specifics of what he may have done, does he get credit for saving the economy? How long does his 'influence' last?

I don't know exactly what to tell you, I don't think it's super clear cut how long it takes to give a president credit for economic movements. If you look at economic graphs (stock markett, unemployment, etc), the upward trend stays around the same rate of upward mobility when Trump gets into office, and then begins to slow. We won't be able to say what the effects of his policies are for sure until he's not president anymore, not fully anyway. What I know is that the trade war he is waging with China and Europe has coincided with economic growth beginning to slow. Could be coincidence, as we are rather due for a slowdown since we're late in the market cycle. But foreign investment has slowed down which suggests a lack of confidence in investors.

Besides that, Trump and/or his administration have been behind a number of policy decisions that bode ill for the middle class, and quite well for the ultra wealthy. For example he is ending the public servant student loan forgiveness program. He appointed Betsy DeVoss who wants to privatize primary school. We have a student debt crisis, and these things are pushing the needle towards even more difficulty with people accruing signific ant debt to educate themselves. His tax plan substantially cut taxes to the already wealthy, and raised taxes on 83 million middle class families by 2027. The tax bracket changes change slowly over a decade so as of yet it appears to be a win for the middle class but that's a smokescreen. Since inflation is still outstripping pay raise, in 10 years from now there will be an even wider gap between the haves and have nots, which is going to be terrible for the economy, since a strong and sustainably strong economy arises from a prosperous middle class of consumers. The yearly deficit is has also raised to the largest in history under Trump. He is also repealing a varietyt of worker protection policies:

majorityleader.gov said:
In June of 2017, the Trump Administration attacked America’s workforce by rescinding joint employer guidance and other regulations meant to protect workers and their ability to collectively bargain. In the last two years, the Trump Administration has removed a number of critical worker protections, including limiting tip protection rules, halting records of workplace injuries, implementing rules limiting worker retirement plans, and awarding lucrative government contracts to organizations with known workplace-safety violations.

And let's not forget health care, one of the most expensive costs for Americans... he tried to entirely repeal Obamacare, which, though not perfect, resulted in tebns of millions of people being able to afford healthcare who previously could not. He didn't repeal it but has been dismantling it piecemeal:

Sabotaging the Affordable Care Act
After failing to repeal the Affordable Care Act, the Trump Administration and Congressional Republicans have taken action through executive orders and legislation to undermine the law’s critical protections for Americans with pre-existing conditions, force 13 million Americans off of health coverage, and raise costs. As a result of the Trump Administration’s actions, the number of uninsured Americans has now increased for the first time since 2014. Here’s a look at a few of the ways the President has sabotaged the law:
Attacking Women’s Health Care
Over the last two years, the Trump Administration has attacked women’s health care through rules intended to restrict access to contraception, and restrictions to family planning services that put employers in charge of women’s reproductive health care choices.

All of this certainly will have an impact on the economy by making millions of people poorer and less able to buy things. Many of the results of these policy changes will take a while to manifest.
 
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Im 34 and have never voted.

Im pretty stoked to vote for Trump. Its awesome how we got a president who IS NOT a globalist baby eater for once. Im glad I saw ole andy mccabe tslkin bout amendment 25 and the coup. I was dead ass not paying attention until then.

Q+ and qanon jesus for president
 
we have to give up a lot of that global policeman responsibility and accept people like Russia (and China at some point) will be stepping into those countries, keeping the peace and fostering their beliefs and global politics - not us. So which is it - spend and lead, or reduce spending and step out of places like Syria and Turkey? I don't have the answer, but I believe that has to be answered first before we get too far into cutting military further.
We don't have to cut spending, just de-privatize the military's supply chain and it will cut costs significantly. Halliburton is one of the most corrupt companies on the planet but they're where our largest percentage of defense spending goes. Makes you wonder where all that money is going...

Also the waste in the military is so stupid. Like for instance, when I was in the Army, if we were doing marksman training with our M4A1s, and we came back with too much ammo, they'd give us less the next time we went to train. So we would shoot ALL the ammo we got no matter what so the supply officers would still give us the same amount each time. Talk about waste!
 
We don't have to cut spending, just de-privatize the military's supply chain and it will cut costs significantly. Halliburton is one of the most corrupt companies on the planet but they're where our largest percentage of defense spending goes. Makes you wonder where all that money is going...

Because it isn't direct military spending, I doubt most Americans have any grasp of how much is being spent on private groups like that to do the work our public may not approve of, or wouldn't want our boys put in the line of danger for. The bigger question to me would be WHAT are the jobs we're paying for? Are they worth doing? They are to someone approving the spending, but could our troops do the work cheaper, or is the real question if we should be doing the work at all?

I accept that there are some black ops which may always be necessary, but not on the scale we're currently outsourcing such jobs at high dollar. Leave a clear amount for 'black ops' and don't look under the title, but know how much that is and control it - then justify what the rest of the spending is going towards, and justify it.


Also the waste in the military is so stupid. Like for instance, when I was in the Army, if we were doing marksman training with our M4A1s, and we came back with too much ammo, they'd give us less the next time we went to train. So we would shoot ALL the ammo we got no matter what so the supply officers would still give us the same amount each time. Talk about waste!

That's not just military, that's ALL gov't. General budgets never go down, any 'cuts' to their budgets is a lowering of the amount of INCREASE they are expected for the following year(s). That's on both parties who continue to spend much easier than they can reduce actual costs on anything. That applies to ALL gov't funding, including social services. Waste is everywhere, which is why many people push back so hard on increasing gov't role in anything - a track record of mismanagement and ineffective spending.
 
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This baby eater shit is the highest level of conspiracy theory nonsense. Come on. There are plenty of valid criticisms of establishment Democrats. We don't need to invent Satanic baby-eating rituals to them.

I notice that literally no Trump supporters EVER address my points that I spend a lot of time laying out and asking for them to be addressed. I get 1-2 sentence rebuttals essentially amounting to "pshh, brainwashed sheep. Hillary is a crook. trump is awesome!!!1" And often with a string of :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: following it as if the very idea that I would offer evidence-based paragraphs of claims is laughable.

Could someone please address my concerns about Trump's impact on our country that I made in the above post, with articulate, reasoned rebuttals?

TLB you're an exception and I look forward to your thoughts.
 
I get 1-2 sentence rebuttals essentially amounting to "pshh, brainwashed sheep. Hillary is a crook. trump is awesome!!!1" And often with a string of :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: following it as if the very idea that I would offer evidence-based paragraphs of claims is laughable.

Don't forget facts and sources are useless. Fake news!!
 
I'm a little scared about a year from now when Trump loses, claims the election was fixed, and refuses to leave the White House. Then his militia will take to the streets (did you know 3% of gun owners own like 20% of the guns or something like that? ) and that's when the fun will begin!

Any idea how many of them are committing the gun crimes? Asking for a friend.


As to when Trump leaves office (this election gets voted out, or next term runs out) he may sqwuak about shit like he always does, but your fears of 'his militia' are misplaced. So long as he loses fairly, the vast majority of Trump supporters will shrug, pretend they didn't like him that much anyway, and move on. The tiny numbers who may be more vocal, and represent your perceived threat, will quickly realize they are NOT a majority and don't have the numbers to cause any sort of uprising.

The problem will come if there are legit concerns about a rigged election. In that case, we should ALL be concerned about wtf is going on.
 
How do we determine what's legit these days when our president has labeled every institution as corrupt and our media as fake? Half the country will take whatever he says as "legit", even if it's not.
I don't think the number of hardcore crazy trump defenders is as high as it looks.

I think a lot of the half of the country who'd vote for Trump are much more sensible and moderate, it's just as always the extremists are the loudest.

It's the more moderate trump supporters who will hopefully be his downfall, as they increasingly see how his behavior is hurting the country.
 
Trump-backed Republican incumbent governor Matt Bevin lost to Democrat Beshear, the State’s AG. In Kentucky.

This doesn’t bode well for Trump, who has already explained it’s not his fault that Bevin lost. 😕

 
This doesn’t bode well for Trump, who has already explained it’s not his fault that Bevin lost. 😕

Saying that trump considers anything not to be his fault is redundant. Narcissists are perfect, they don't make mistakes like normal people. At most their only faults are the self promoting kind like that they work too much.
 
Trump-backed Republican incumbent governor Matt Bevin lost to Democrat Beshear, the State’s AG. In Kentucky.

This doesn’t bode well for Trump, who has already explained it’s not his fault that Bevin lost. 😕


A state that Trump won by 30 points :)
It seems the enthusiasm has slowed a little.
 
That's an encouraging sign that, in fact, the supporters are actually just a very loud minority, who make it seem like more people still support him than actually do.

It's not just about Trump, but the entire Republican party at this point. Not the entire party but the majority of it. Their goal has been to undermine the middle class at the expense of the ultra-wealthy for decades now. Let's hope this means people are finally waking up to it.
 
Trump-backed Republican incumbent governor Matt Bevin lost to Democrat Beshear, the State’s AG. In Kentucky.

This doesn’t bode well for Trump, who has already explained it’s not his fault that Bevin lost. 😕

Bevin is refusing to concede! 😳
 
In other news, former attorney general Jeff Sessions is running in Alabama for his old seat. He also apparently still supports Trump.

 
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