Does Cocaine Ruin MDMA?

[Dexta]

So I used to take MDMA - a lot as a kid , the bad old days of 5 pills or more over a 10 hour session and I probably did that on and off with little more than a few weeks gap for a decade.

No issues.

Fast forward 15 years.

I take a step back into the dance MDMA world and do a single E.

Had the time of my life -again, wonderful, happy, much love, danced my ASS off.

Then Cocaine enters the scene.

I didn't really suss it until I started to analyse the last 5 or 6 times I've been out.

What happens..

I start the evening with coke and it feels like on every night I have done so the MDMA has fallen really flat for me.

I tested the MDMA with a reagents kit, I can't tell how much I took but I can tell it was MDMA, I just never got REMOTELY the same feeling as I used to

Could cocaine be screwing with my MDMA?

When I was young we couldn't afford coke so never really took it - I just loved MDMA

I want my MDMA high back.

Went out on Saturday, danced a bit but had no euphoric experience, no mad love or happyness - just totally in my own world.

 

[LabRat74]

Cocaine is a triple reuptake inhibitor and blocks the transport protein mdma uses to pump out 5ht. Combining these will result in the mdma euphoria being muted while ramping up edginess.

 

[Dexta]

Cocaine is a triple reuptake inhibitor and blocks the transport protein mdma uses to pump out 5ht. Combining these will result in the mdma euphoria being muted while ramping up edginess.

Well that sounds exactly like I've experienced.

Thank you.

Is this a universally accepted answer to this question?

I really seemed to have to dig online to get any confirmation of this and when you consider how common these two drugs are you would think it would be everywhere not to do them together.

I figured I would get a load of mixed feedback here as so many people mix both together.

 

[AutoTripper]

It may be largely related to the MDMA itself. It is of variable quality across the world now and for the most part is not the same product it used to be in the past and falls dramatically short for many people.

Check out the thread on this site "what is wrong with the MDMA available today".

This matter is being deeply investigated by many psychonauts here and chemists, you are trying to pinpoint the actual causes and explanations for the inferior experience of most sources of MDMA currently.

So keep this in mind because unless you have found a needle in the haystack you probably do not have MDMA which will produce anywhere near the same type of amazing experience as you were used to in the past.

That said cocaine can interfere with the MDMA high although I have myself many years back taking the two substances together many times and still had great experiences with both drugs just depending on how you dose etc.

 

[AutoTripper]

Went out on Saturday, danced a bit but had no euphoric experience, no mad love or happyness - just totally in my own world.

This sounds EXACTLY like "MehDMA" as it has been labelled. Just lacking in empathy and euphoria, more of a stimulant, inward experience with little to no magic.

 

[BlueBull]

AutoTripper, while it is possible of course that it was so-called 'MehDMA', LabRat is correct in his explanation so this is the most likely cause of the OP's experience. Coke is a bad idea combined with MDMA for this reason. It can also cause overstimulation, ass LabRat also mentioned, which I have seen in real life and is an awful experience when the doses are high

Dexta, before combining drugs, it's a good idea to research the combination beforehand. This because some combinations can be very dangerous. I have an infographic somewhere listing out the most common combinations and their risk and harm profile, I'll see if I can dig it up

*edit* Here you go. I have put it in nsfw tags because it's a very large image. Download this and use it to determine which combinations are not smart to try. Pay special attention to the red ones. Coke and MDMA are labeled 'caution' because the combination usually is not particularely harmful except for overstimulation, but coke does cancel MDMA out

NSFW:

[/nfsw]

 

[AutoTripper]

AutoTripper, while it is possible of course that it was so-called 'MehDMA', LabRat is correct in his explanation so this is the most likely cause of the OP's experience. Coke is a bad idea combined with MDMA for this reason. It can also cause overstimulation, ass LabRat also mentioned, which I have seen in real life and is an awful experience when the doses are high

Dexta, before combining drugs, it's a good idea to research the combination beforehand. This because some combinations can be very dangerous. I have an infographic somewhere listing out the most common combinations and their risk and harm profile, I'll see if I can dig it up

Yes I go along with all of that, and I didn't mean to detract from the substance of that legitimate explanation.

But I felt it was worth pointing out that there is a very high likelihood that the MDMA would fall short of expectations anyway. To get to the bottom of this matter I felt that should be considered.

I too have experienced the the added strain of the two stimulants together before myself but I was never particularly into cocaine and always favored MDMA but I did on occasion enjoy the combination of the two.

In my experiences the cocaine could call you out of the MDMA transcendental headspace and ground you which at times could actually be appreciated, depending on the amount of MDMA in your system and whether or not you continued to consume it throughout the session I was often able to re-enter the MDMA experience.

I'm certainly not advocating combining the two however it was never something I would seek out or particularly enjoy.

 

[Dexta]

It may be largely related to the MDMA itself. It is of variable quality across the world now and for the most part is not the same product it used to be in the past and falls dramatically short for many people.

Check out the thread on this site "what is wrong with the MDMA available today".

This matter is being deeply investigated by many psychonauts here and chemists, you are trying to pinpoint the actual causes and explanations for the inferior experience of most sources of MDMA currently.

So keep this in mind because unless you have found a needle in the haystack you probably do not have MDMA which will produce anywhere near the same type of amazing experience as you were used to in the past.

That said cocaine can interfere with the MDMA high although I have myself many years back taking the two substances together many times and still had great experiences with both drugs just depending on how you dose etc.

I initially thought that might be the case but friends on the exact same stuff we're loving live and we tested it first with 3 reagents.

I don't doubt there's quality issues out there but I think this is more a "me" issue than a MDMA as a whole issue.

 

[BlueBull]

Yes I go along with all of that, and I didn't mean to detract from the substance of that legitimate explanation.

But I felt it was worth pointing out that there is a very high likelihood that the MDMA would fall short of expectations anyway. To get to the bottom of this matter I felt that should be considered.

I too have experienced the the added strain of the two stimulants together before myself but I was never particularly into cocaine and always favored MDMA but I did on occasion enjoy the combination of the two.

In my experiences the cocaine could call you out of the MDMA transcendental headspace and ground you which at times could actually be appreciated, depending on the amount of MDMA in your system and whether or not you continued to consume it throughout the session I was often able to re-enter the MDMA experience.

I'm certainly not advocating combining the two however it was never something I would seek out or particularly enjoy.

I apologise if I came over as correcting you. As you say I did not mean to detract from your legitimate explanation, there is nothing wrong with it and it is indeed worth pointing out. I replied because I understood your message as saying MehDMA is a more likely explanation, so I have misinterpreted your post. Thank you for your contribution!

 

[Dexta]

AutoTripper, while it is possible of course that it was so-called 'MehDMA', LabRat is correct in his explanation so this is the most likely cause of the OP's experience. Coke is a bad idea combined with MDMA for this reason. It can also cause overstimulation, ass LabRat also mentioned, which I have seen in real life and is an awful experience when the doses are high

Dexta, before combining drugs, it's a good idea to research the combination beforehand. This because some combinations can be very dangerous. I have an infographic somewhere listing out the most common combinations and their risk and harm profile, I'll see if I can dig it up

*edit* Here you go. I have put it in nsfw tags because it's a very large image. Download this and use it to determine which combinations are not smart to try. Pay special attention to the red ones. Coke and MDMA are labeled 'caution' because the combination usually is not particularely harmful except for overstimulation, but coke does cancel MDMA out

NSFW:

[/nfsw]

Thanks, appreciate it

As a heads up, I'm incredibly good nowadays, In the good old days, it was weed, coke, speed, ecstacy and prescription stuff at once- ironicaly never suffered really

All I want is the MDMA high back.

As above twice I've had the exact same as friends who were just loving life - if I could show you the pictures of saturday, my face versus there's really tells the picture - just so much love coming out and I wasn't in the mood to reciperocate at all - amost internalised .

We tested i twith reagents and the three of them had such a crazy night it was insane.

 

[Dexta]

Yes I go along with all of that, and I didn't mean to detract from the substance of that legitimate explanation.

But I felt it was worth pointing out that there is a very high likelihood that the MDMA would fall short of expectations anyway. To get to the bottom of this matter I felt that should be considered.

I too have experienced the the added strain of the two stimulants together before myself but I was never particularly into cocaine and always favored MDMA but I did on occasion enjoy the combination of the two.

In my experiences the cocaine could call you out of the MDMA transcendental headspace and ground you which at times could actually be appreciated, depending on the amount of MDMA in your system and whether or not you continued to consume it throughout the session I was often able to re-enter the MDMA experience.

I'm certainly not advocating combining the two however it was never something I would seek out or particularly enjoy.

As above , I basically felt almost "bad" like ZERO lovely high at all.

The last time I was high on MDMA was about about 3 rolls again , guess it was about a year back and I didn't have coke and dam I had a good night

I don't doubt there'e a lot of shit about but this I think falls more into the Coke neutalising the MD , I guess what I'm trying to get at is - can it really mitigate it thatr much that all you friends not on coke are flying and you're virutally getting nothing?

 

[AutoTripper]

I initially thought that might be the case but friends on the exact same stuff we're loving live and we tested it first with 3 reagents.

I don't doubt there's quality issues out there but I think this is more a "me" issue than a MDMA as a whole issue.

Yes Im open to that, but when you say "me" issue, that could be interpreted in different ways. It may be the situational physiology with the coke, in that if you leave the cocaine out the experience could be radically different so it is not a problem with you as such just the combination.

But certainly many people will consider themselves as having a problem actually experiencing MDMA properly per se, for numerous reasons, commonly chalked up to be related to loss of magic.

When in fact, in many cases it is the product itself which is a problem.
And many people who are taking MDMA currently who did not take the original old school MDMA it has been suggested do not realise what they are missing out on so this is another factor to consider as well.

But certainly maybe your MDMA is pretty good and you just negated the experience with the cocaine.

 

[Dexta]

The infographic seems to be suggesting more "caution" as in - that combo isn't safe rather than "shitty synergy - reduces effect" ?

 

[AutoTripper]

can it really mitigate it thatr much that all you friends not on coke are flying and you're virutally getting nothing?

I think we can safely answer yes to this question depending on dosages and products quality of course.

I think it makes good sense to assume that your MDMA experience was mundane as a direct result of the cocaine consumption and my suggestion would simply be to next time take the MDMA by yourself and see if things are different because you had that positive experience about a year ago which I have just seen you comment on.

 

[BlueBull]

As above , I basically felt almost "bad" like ZERO lovely high at all.

The last time I was high on MDMA was about about 3 rolls again , guess it was about a year back and I didn't have coke and dam I had a good night

I don't doubt there'e a lot of shit about but this I think falls more into the Coke neutalising the MD , I guess what I'm trying to get at is - can it really mitigate it thatr much that all you friends not on coke are flying and you're virutally getting nothing?

Yes, it can indeed. More than that, it will do that every time. Coke has a greater affinity for the 5-HT (serotonin) receptors than MDMA and thus will bind to the receptor more strongly, which means the MDMA can't bind, mitigating the effects. It can go all the way up to completely negating the MDMA (except for some stimulation)

The infographic seems to be suggesting more "caution" as in - that combo isn't safe rather than "shitty synergy - reduces effect" ?

I think they have put 'caution' there because of the overstimulation chance. If you have a heart problem this might be dangerous. It isn't completely safe no. If that was the case they would have indeed put 'low risk and decrease' there. Coke in itself is a physically pretty harmful drug in itself so almost any combination with it is likely to increase this harm. Alcohol is something you should for instance stay clear of when on coke, they react with eachother and produce cocaethylene, a chemical toxic to your heart, it makes you heart valves leak over time

 

[Dexta]

Yes Im open to that, but when you say "me" issue, that could be interpreted in different ways. It may be the situational physiology with the coke, in that if you leave the cocaine out the experience could be radically different so it is not a problem with you as such just the combination.

But certainly many people will consider themselves as having a problem actually experiencing MDMA properly per se, for numerous reasons, commonly chalked up to be related to loss of magic.

When in fact, in many cases it is the product itself which is a problem.
And many people who are taking MDMA currently who did not take the original old school MDMA it has been suggested do not realise what they are missing out on so this is another factor to consider as well.

But certainly maybe your MDMA is pretty good and you just negated the experience with the cocaine.

I think this was the problem the first two times and why I didn't put 2 and 2 together because I had pills and they had powder and I just presumed - ahh well I just got shit stuff.

So then the next two times, I tried to get a bit more savvy, bought a testing kit - they procured the pils, I tested them,. 3 different reagents - all worked out well and they were still high at 7 am lying over each other on the sofa , talking the usual MDMA post club bliss while I was just feeling crappy and I had none of that euphoria or joy in the club at all that they were exhibiting.

Maybe some peopel are MORE effected by coke and MDMA at once than others and I fall into that category?

I wondered if I had screwed up my receptors as a youngster but I'm not frequent and there's been entire years where I took none and at most I get out-out 3-4 times a year..

I was at the point if somebody had said, give me £250 and I'll give you that MDMA real feeling back, I would have handed it over in a heart beat.

 

[Dexta]

Yes, it can indeed. More than that, it will do that every time. Coke has a greater affinity for the 5-HT (serotonin) receptors than MDMA and thus will bind to the receptor more strongly, which means the MDMA can't bind, mitigating the effects. It can go all the way up to completely negating the MDMA (except for some stimulation)



I think they have put 'caution' there because of the overstimulation chance. If you have a heart problem this might be dangerous. It isn't completely safe no. If that was the case they would have indeed put 'low risk and decrease' there

Man, this sorta makes me frustrated at my own absurd level of ignorance on this , baring in mind I've caned drugs on and off for 30 years but equally a degree of potential relief here that If I keep off the coke I can yet have a great time out next time.....

 

[Dexta]

Well I think you guys have answered my question although I welcome all over feedback to accompany this.

1) Make sure your drugs are good/ test
2) Yep coke screws your MDMA

I just can not grasp how this seems to be such an absolute given and makes sense scientifically that this isn't more of the typical ongoing drug chat doing the rounds anecdotally

I only found this form by mistake - thank god I did.

Was really beginning to think I am doomed to misery

I loved seeing my friends so ecstatic but damm it hurt feeling so utterly disconnected from that hight.

 

[LabRat74]

Yes, it can indeed. More than that, it will do that every time. Coke has a greater affinity for the 5-HT (serotonin) receptors than MDMA and thus will bind to the receptor more strongly, which means the MDMA can't bind, mitigating the effects. It can go all the way up to completely negating the MDMA (except for some stimulation)

I think they have put 'caution' there because of the overstimulation chance. If you have a heart problem this might be dangerous. It isn't completely safe no. If that was the case they would have indeed put 'low risk and decrease' there. Coke in itself is a physically pretty harmful drug in itself so almost any combination with it is likely to increase this harm. Alcohol is something you should for instance stay clear of when on coke, they react with each other and produce cocaethylene, a chemical toxic to your heart, it makes you heart valves leak over time

Actually cocaethylene is a big red herring it's not produced in pharmacologically relevant quantities in the liver**. The increase of sudden death comes from cocaine and alcohol mutually inhibiting the livers ability to process each other. Tests in lab environments on isolated cocaethylene are intellectually dishonest as you'll never be on just cocaethylene without already consuming jointly (or even severally) doses of cocaine and alcohol that are likely to hospitalise u anyway. I'll grab a literature review which highlightd this one second.

**The exception being orally dosed cocaine, but no-one does this and even then the plasma concentrations are negligible.

EDIT: refer to pages 34 and 35

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/411574/acmd_final_report_12_03_2015.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2-SGX8Lmr09d4CZTyI0tQX7kppQEKfY0Pniha3rmCcue7bfP1aPeS0qoc

 

[epic11]

Cocaine completely negates mdma. Im not sure why people STILL try doing it together. Its not a secret, and ive known about it cancelling mdma since i started in this HR game.

Its amazing how many clubbers/ravers dont understand this. Just ruining the beautiful drug with a shitty fiendish one.