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Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

I don't think that's the primary reason. I mean certainly iv heroin is the most addictive way to use it. But frankly this sounds like a case of simply not being someone prone to opioid abuse.

Not everyone is. Many people can try opioids and not find them addictive. Just like with alcohol, many of us, can use it and never feel compelled to drink again. Other people try it once then never stop.

We are different people and prone to different types of substance abuse, if we're prone to substance abuse at all.

For instance experience has shown me that I am highly prone to addiction to nicotine and opioids. Soon as I first tried both of those I simply never stopped.

But I've never had that problem with alcohol or amphetamines. Even when I've enjoyed both of them, I've never felt that same kind of need to keep using them as I have with opioids.

While other people are the complete opposite.

In some ways is say it's that even though it's the same drug, the above poster literally isn't experiencing it quite the same way as people prone to opioid addiction are, and vice versa for me with amphetamines for instance.

Benzodiazapines are another common example. With them often doing very little to nothing to people without anxiety. But being an enormous impact to people with it. Same drug, different experience.
 
JessFR said:
I don't think that's the primary reason. I mean certainly iv heroin is the most addictive way to use it. But frankly this sounds like a case of simply not being someone prone to opioid abuse.

Not everyone is. Many people can try opioids and not find them addictive. Just like with alcohol, many of us, can use it and never feel compelled to drink again. Other people try it once then never stop.

We are different people and prone to different types of substance abuse, if we're prone to substance abuse at all.

For instance experience has shown me that I am highly prone to addiction to nicotine and opioids. Soon as I first tried both of those I simply never stopped.

But I've never had that problem with alcohol or amphetamines. Even when I've enjoyed both of them, I've never felt that same kind of need to keep using them as I have with opioids.

While other people are the complete opposite.

In some ways is say it's that even though it's the same drug, the above poster literally isn't experiencing it quite the same way as people prone to opioid addiction are, and vice versa for me with amphetamines for instance.

Benzodiazapines are another common example. With them often doing very little to nothing to people without anxiety. But being an enormous impact to people with it. Same drug, different experience.
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I totally agree with you, everything you said. You seem an experienced user, nice post.
 
Olivia Nicole said:
The bioavailability of heroin is 100% when injected intravenously. That’s when you feel the warm euphoric rush that no other drug can match.
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This is not really correct... Yes bioavailibility is 100% for IV with anything, but that has nothing to do with why there's a rush or euphoria. The rush comes from the fact that it enters the blood stream very fast, but what it's considerd a rush is subjective where the onset of nasal is a rush compared to oral. Many compare rectal administration to IV or I would think closer to IM. The "euphoria" is just inherit to opiods and a effect that would be considered misuse to seek as it's associated with higher doses and other side effects. Opiods really at best put off pain to deal with it all at once later and some in the form of withdrawals while higher doses it's just a sedative, which is why it's a narcotic (sleep inducing) drug.

Unless you have some form of chronic pain being neglected by a doctor I'd recommend to stay away and even then think 100x first.
 
Olivia Nicole said:
Why not? It offers is a really intense rush of euphoria which is unlike any other drug experience. Heroin has been the inspiration of a lot of great art and music over the ages.
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due to the destruction it will lead to of ones life. Well some people maybe might try it once or twice and thats it a majority will fall into a black hole of addiction. Hell some people die on the first use of its some potent asian heroin instead of the dogshit mexi trash drugs.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
due to the destruction it will lead to of ones life. Well some people maybe might try it once or twice and thats it a majority will fall into a black hole of addiction. Hell some people die on the first use of its some potent asian heroin instead of the dogshit mexi trash drugs.
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I'm afraid you're mistaken. Most people, like 75% who use it once, never develop a habit (https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/heroin-addiction/faq/addicted-first-time/#gref)

Destruction is part of life, is it not? Better to live intensely, than a life of quiet desperation.

"Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night."
-DT
 
I suspect that if you're the type of person who'll repeatedly argue with experienced heroin addicts about why you should try it, dismissing all the experienced users pleading that it's a terrible idea. There's a very good chance you're exactly the type of person who is going to get addicted to it.

Because that is already addict thinking. Rationalizing away all the reasons you shouldn't use it.

Rationalization is the primary weapon of the addicted mind. Finding justifications to keep going a little bit further, then a little bit further.

That's why I said earlier that in some ways I think addiction can start before you've even tried the drug. Upon reflecting on my life I've often felt like in some ways, there was never the possibility that I wouldn't have wound up addicted to heroin. That there was never the possibility that I wouldn't have tried it.
 
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JessFR said:
I suspect that if you're the type of person who'll repeatedly argue with experienced heroin addicts about why you should try it, dismissing all the experienced users pleading that it's a terrible idea. There's a very good chance you're exactly the type of person who is going to get addicted to it.

Because that is already addict thinking. Rationalizing away all the reasons you shouldn't use it.

Rationalization is the primary weapon of the addicted mind. Finding justifications to keep going a little bit further, then a little bit further.

That's why I said earlier that in some ways I think addiction can start before you've even tried the drug. Upon reflecting on my life I've often felt like in some ways, there was never the possibility that I wouldn't have wound up addicted to heroin. That there was never the possibility that I wouldn't have tried it.
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I'm only 25, so I have a lot to learn!

And I'm not at all underestimating the negative influence heroin has had on many, many people. But I'd guess there are even more who haven't experienced the same negative consequences and I think everyone should be open to experience the kind of beauty and euphoria that heroin offers without it destroying their lives.

Only a minority of people who ever use it stumble into addiction.
heroin-addiction-statistics.png
 
leworthy said:
What makes people actually want to try heroin?
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Because uneducated inexperienced people overexaggerate the experience where the only euphoria I've ever had is having relief from the problems it caused.
Shady's Fox said:
Well yeah, it crosses the blood barrier in your brain and then you have the 4 ''happy chemicals'' which are Dopamine, Serotonin, Endorphins and Oxytocin. So what's your point, again?...
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It's when people attempt to oversimplify the human experience to cause and effect. There's many intricate actions happening where the current common understanding is skewed based on subjective observations of what's good and bad. I think it's the worst thing ever yet I can't go wit it because of the physical pain I experienced on a daily basis from injury. Be greatful if you can live without it and keep it that way as long as possible.
 
You know, heroin feels good, really really good. But I really wouldn't call it "best thing anyone could ever feel" good.

And frankly, if you've experienced ANY other opioid, you've already experienced what it basically feels like anyway. The intensity differs, but you've got the basic idea.

Also heroins never done shit for my creativity, Ive never seen it do anything for anyone else's either. I suspect this might be mistaking correlation for causation.
 
^^ 100% on the creativity thing. I tried playing my bass loaded the other night. It was pathetic. I kept nodding out every couple of bars.

Sad. Trading away the joys in my life for the nod world. The nod world is great but short and elusive and the side effects, fent danger and such just are to much for any creativity to be had - for me and most others I've met who tried it to help their creativity.

Yeah, you'll gain creativity in how to get your next dose while living under a tarp, under a freeway broke and panhanddling.

That spot under the overpass - it took months of negotitations, fights, and street culture lessons to even get near, your first creative months were spent trying to score all night - btw where I live dope is a day up to day light down thing for scoring, but I often see the homeless trying to get their nightly fix around midnight - then try to sleep in the park by day and hope the cops leave you alone.

That's if you're fortunate to be near a city, homelessness in rural areas is a different hell one can find quickly, creativity man - that's all it takes.

[Like many others I cannot sleep much while high, nodding does not count as sleep... it counts as close to death]

edit: add the part about sleep to help explain why people even in the street would day sleep - b/c if they are fortunate they get their bigger dose at night and stay up and nod or talk or freeze, shake and rattle despite the dose - yeah a great life.
 
It's just not worth it, everyone thinks they won't get addicted, everyone. I certainly did and I wouldn't have listened to some addict online telling me no. In fact I didn't. I still thought I could chip, I'm not like them I thought. I even read messages from other addicts saying that they thought that too and I still thought 'that's them, not me, won't be me'. Hell, I could be sitting there right now reading this and STILL think to myself 'yeah but I could do it, I'm not like that'. There's still a part of my brain that is still convinced I cooouuulllddd chip if I REALLY set my mind to not getting addicted, and I've been on and off addicted for 8 years! So clearly I goddamn can't keep 'ahead of it' because 'I'm not like that'! Doesn't matter, that addiction is inside my brain and it always wants to come back out, and I could always find a way to rationalize it to myself. I bet there's still someone who'll read this and think they're not like ME, I would. A solidly upper-middle class suburban white boy with a loving family and great friends, I work, I'm smart, I'm on top of my shit, I've never gotten hooked on anything else (well, except alcohol and benzos a couple of times but it was purely physical after purely utilitarian use and it was really an aberration each time - doesn't count! Won't be me!) I'm generally well liked and I have a pretty fulfilling life all things considered, varied interests and hobbies, responsibilities, I'm interested in drugs in like a scientific experimental philosophical inner-space-explorer psychonaut kinda way y'know, I'm not some junkie trying to run from my problems who can't just resist for a few days, I wouldn't, no way, it'd never be me I GOT this man.

See how delusional that sounds when you hear someone else's self justification? I thought I could do it because I know myself and my intentions, how much I mean it, I know how I react to things and how I make decisions. But it's not that part of you that's in charge once you start flirting with dope. It literally changes your brain, all the things you want, your priorities, that core you know as you that you're basing this decision off - It all changes. Maybe not that noticeably at first, but it will happen, hard and fast usually, and you won't even recognize the person you've become just to keep a dope habit afloat. It's not like a few beers or some weed where ultimately you're still in control, just high, then when you're sober you're sober and all the time you're just you in different states. You try it, you either hate it and leave it or you like it and you change, into Heroin You! But nobody likes Heroin You and you won't either and next thing you know it'll be 10yrs later and you'll be wishing anything you could go back and just not fucking try it. I did chip, for years before forming an addiction, with pharms. I was experienced, knew what I was doing, I was careful. Didn't matter. What I recognize now is that I was already forming a psychological bond with it, and asking myself whether I wanted to try H was already escalating it, doing it even more so, I tried it as a result of a fairly manageable addiction I didn't recognize, trading it for a much worse one I had no choice but to recognize because it ruled my entire body, and if you're asking the internet if you should do heroin too you're doing the same thing. It's not even a particularly special high, take some oxy or something and you've got the gist well enough. But all the factors surrounding heroin specifically make it uniquely perfect for causing massive brutal hellish addiction and destruction. It's not even like 'yeah there's the risk, but oh my god that high makes it all worth it' it's more like drinking dodgy bathtub moonshine that you know is gonna send you blind and ruin your liver rather than drinking some Absolut because you think, for some stupid fucking reason, that the moonshine is gonna get you a more interesting and 'perfect' kind of drunk than the vodka because it has '''''mystique'''''. Man how dumb of a decision is that, the vodka is better and safer why even fuck with the chance of methanol poisoning? Playing Russian Roulette with addiction but only one chamber is empty and you're doing it for literally no reason. 9/10 chance you're gonna get shot, so why bother, especially since you don't even get a reward.

But if anyone is reading this whole thread and still saying to themselves 'I can do it, it won't be me, I'm not like that', well, the fact that you're justifying it to yourself still, in the face of everything here, is a pretty good indicator that you ALREADY can't say no to it, and you should know where that leads. Some people gotta make their own choices though, I get it, nothing dissuaded me, maybe nothing will dissuade you. Roll the dice, you'll understand soon enough.
 
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Ive been using for a few months i did it to replace my codeine thinking i would get one last high then cut down but ever since i used it ive used it everyday since and just accepted it really i nearly managed to quit it cold turkey i made it through 3 days but the man came through with a layon and im back on it I wish I stuck with codeine the high from smoking is nice i get really good shit I know some mates who are in a full runners gang brought it hundreds of times now and never once got ripped off ive even brought it off the street at 2 in the morning in a very dodgy area
 
JessFR said:
You know, heroin feels good, really really good. But I really wouldn't call it "best thing anyone could ever feel" good.

And frankly, if you've experienced ANY other opioid, you've already experienced what it basically feels like anyway. The intensity differs, but you've got the basic idea.

Also heroins never done shit for my creativity, Ive never seen it do anything for anyone else's either. I suspect this might be mistaking correlation for causation.
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Thats exactly right I was expecting to finally after using weaker opiates, for years to finally just see what the big bad high is all about but I learned its not that simple
 
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