does weed kill your feelings? For heavy users

[LordFran]

Yeah man, your words added relevant points to this discussion. I would like to address some aspects and I will gradually do so in the course of time (on account of my verbosity that causes long digressions)

For now, I will focus on one specific point.

Why is it hard to stop doing something which gives us a great deal of pleasure?

Well, it seems like one’s brain is addicted to all sort of pleasures. It is the essence behind the brain’s reward system. Assuming the case of primitive human beings living in the jungle, the reward system is a biological mechanism to keep the specie surviving throughout evolution. One needs to be rewarded when one consumes food, water, has sex, develops social interactions, and so on.

Human beings are no longer in the jungle, so they are now on the internet, using smartphones, computers, even at the tender age, totally disconnected from the ancestral roots, as animals that we are, especially bearing in mind our physiology.

One currently lives under a savage capitalist system that does not give a damn about one’s health. One does not like one’s jobs, but one spends one’s life there. So I think that one’s brain’s reward system is already messed up, even in the absence of drugs.

What types of activities stimulate the reward system in the current cultural trends? To wear fashionable clothes? To show off on Instagram? To be better than the neighbor, better than the rival countries? To drive an expensive car? Who is the richest? Who has been fucking the most beautiful girls? I am not going to stay here supporting judgments about what is good or not for society, I just want to point out how far away from one’s natural (supposed) environment one is nowadays. One’s brain is not prepared for the “modern environment”, evolutionarily speaking.

I want to clarify my point through a drug-based example: prior to the compulsory use of drugs, there was a natural and “innate” production of biochemical substances which, when taken as a whole set, make ones happy. Moreover, the total concentration of this set of compounds is equal to X.

When one smokes a very potent weed, as a pictorial example, I am going to consider that the new weed-induced value is equal to 20X. Similarly, the values for other drugs are: 80X (cocaine), 100X (strong opiate), and 150X (mushrooms, DMT, mescaline, and similar hallucinogens).

It is known that despite the value for opiates be lower than the value for hallucinogens (100X and 150X, respectively, they are the most addictive substances. Based on this, it is possible to conclude that the value of X is a receptor-dependent value and it cannot be generalized, because it is also necessary to consider which types of brain receptors are predominantly being excited. How about cocaine? Cocaine effects are centered on dopamine receptors and it is well-known that it is a very addictive substance.

How about weed and hallucinogens? Which receptors are primarily being excited? I will focus on hallucinogens, because in the case of weed there is the endocannabinoid system that I do not want to focus now. Which is the system primordially responsible for the intense psychedelic effects of hallucinogens? Intense to the point of being able to change a person’s way of thinking. In addition, hallucinogens do not cause cravings or unhealthy physical effects (at least in normal doses). Of course, they are natural (as weed is), not undergoing chemical manipulations like cocaine, meth, and it is needed to take into account this aspect as well.

Returning to the main point of the discussion, why is it hard to stop doing something which gives us a great deal of pleasure? If one is in the “addictive receptors” field, what happens is that if one’s previous production of substances that give pleasure was equal to X, as severe drug use is instated, it will be equal to X/10, X/50, and so on. I mean the actual brain production. Why should the brain produce X if external sources are providing it with 80X or 100X? It is a waste of energy and molecular precursors utilized in the biosynthesis, vainly.

However, when the “addictive receptors” are not present, for example, in hallucinogens, what are the mechanism underlying such intense effects without generating dependence. If there are no addictions involved, apparently dopaminergic and opiate receptors also do not take place (to a large extent) in this party.

And if perhaps the sought answers are not located in the brain, conversely, being placed in the soul, and the theory of entheogens is not only true but also the highway to heaven. Who knows?

Muito bom. The fact that all of us work and have jobs is extremley important to point out. Because before that we had school. So our whole lives are created, structured, by others, who do not have our best interest at heart. So that 8 hours that goes into work, that 8 hours that goes in to school, the whole persuit of these careers and salaries--have you noticed how some people get really good at it? They take it very seriously.--all that energy is lost in that. These are OUR lives; 40hs a week at work. Imagine if we had 40hs to be able to focus that energy inwards? To do the things we really love to do.

All that you said of instagram is clearly evident in the world. And all that is clearly self centered, narcisistic, and egotistical, activity of the brain. The persuit of these banalities is the living life through the perspective of the ego. Naturally there will be a great deal of pain caused by this division--the division between the true self and the ego. The ego is created to fit in society, therefore Man-made, a creation of thought. All thought is limited because it is created by us, who have limited intelligence. That means that we will be limited human beings.

The paradox is: There can only be unlimited intelligence in the absence of thought.

The brain is in disorder because society is in disorder.

The brain creates society; you and I are society.

Self centered brain activity--which is the ego-- is the root of the problem. The patient enters the psychologists office why? Because he is thinking of the world revolving around him. And the psychologist re-enforces this, acting as if the guy is the center of the world--as if there is not peace to be found in the absence of self centered thought, out in nature, in meditation that is not ritual. A mind that is completley still cant have problems. This is a fact. So why dont we focus on how to still the mind?

The drug example are very good. And I always think of it like this; cocaine, meth, heroin, these are man-made drugs. That specific configuration of molecules together would never have been created by the source of creation; because the source is careful of things like that, is orderly, compassionate. But us human beings are disorderly; so we create these drugs which if consumed by ANYONE, will have IRREPARABLE ADDICTION -- because once you know the pleassure of heroin YOU ARE SCREWED. You played yourself! If you are very ignorant at first youll think your the best, you are getting a pleassure that ordinary people dont get; you know how to live. But quickly that fades. And truth be told, you played yourself, but also you were screwed by the person who made that cocktail of pleassure/damage to the dopamine centers. Pleassure is damage in this case, which is pain. -- And at the end of the day why was that cocktail of molecules made? For money, which is an ego persuit, an ambitious persuit. Self centered activity.

Experiments on rats with cocaine and heroin; think of that, being born a rat and put through this. So when I think of alien abduction experiences or similar experiences though DMT, and et all, I think of the rat; and how that was not the destiny the Source of creation had intended for the rat. Rather it was the destiny we humans inflicted on it--because we THOUGHT it was ok. Remember, almost no one ever FEELS that is ok.

The last point you made is the side I lean towards. I can talk hours about it, but if anyone is willing to work with DMT, they can see it for themselves. Its shocking how advanced, how 3D, how inteligent, how impossible, some realms there can be. Infinite intelligence and creativity.

 

[Foreigner]

When I quit smoking weed for two years I also became more emotional, and more interested in movies and writing. I would get high watching a good movie (I mean, like feel very good and hightened.) And I actually wrote 200,000 words in fiction during that time. And so when I was living that I remember one day clearly being in my room and saying out loud "I am glad I don't smoke weed. I am so glad I am done with that." It was such a good thing to be able to say, and feel completley, with no doubt, no desire for it. Like this was THE GOOD decisions to have made.

I also did a lot of writing and deep thinking while on weed, but once I wasn't high it was like it never happened.

I think weed is great for mental masturbation but none of what you think about actually integrates. It's just a big smoke cloud. Once I really realized this, I quit and started getting more grounded in my life. In general, I am tired of the false epiphanies that drugs offer.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

Muito bom. The fact that all of us work and have jobs is extremley important to point out. Because before that we had school. So our whole lives are created, structured, by others, who do not have our best interest at heart. So that 8 hours that goes into work, that 8 hours that goes in to school, the whole persuit of these careers and salaries--have you noticed how some people get really good at it? They take it very seriously.--all that energy is lost in that. These are OUR lives; 40hs a week at work. Imagine if we had 40hs to be able to focus that energy inwards? To do the things we really love to do.

All that you said of instagram is clearly evident in the world. And all that is clearly self centered, narcisistic, and egotistical, activity of the brain. The persuit of these banalities is the living life through the perspective of the ego. Naturally there will be a great deal of pain caused by this division--the division between the true self and the ego. The ego is created to fit in society, therefore Man-made, a creation of thought. All thought is limited because it is created by us, who have limited intelligence. That means that we will be limited human beings.

The paradox is: There can only be unlimited intelligence in the absence of thought.

The brain is in disorder because society is in disorder.

The brain creates society; you and I are society.

Self centered brain activity--which is the ego-- is the root of the problem. The patient enters the psychologists office why? Because he is thinking of the world revolving around him. And the psychologist re-enforces this, acting as if the guy is the center of the world--as if there is not peace to be found in the absence of self centered thought, out in nature, in meditation that is not ritual. A mind that is completley still cant have problems. This is a fact. So why dont we focus on how to still the mind?

The drug example are very good. And I always think of it like this; cocaine, meth, heroin, these are man-made drugs. That specific configuration of molecules together would never have been created by the source of creation; because the source is careful of things like that, is orderly, compassionate. But us human beings are disorderly; so we create these drugs which if consumed by ANYONE, will have IRREPARABLE ADDICTION -- because once you know the pleassure of heroin YOU ARE SCREWED. You played yourself! If you are very ignorant at first youll think your the best, you are getting a pleassure that ordinary people dont get; you know how to live. But quickly that fades. And truth be told, you played yourself, but also you were screwed by the person who made that cocktail of pleassure/damage to the dopamine centers. Pleassure is damage in this case, which is pain. -- And at the end of the day why was that cocktail of molecules made? For money, which is an ego persuit, an ambitious persuit. Self centered activity.

Experiments on rats with cocaine and heroin; think of that, being born a rat and put through this. So when I think of alien abduction experiences or similar experiences though DMT, and et all, I think of the rat; and how that was not the destiny the Source of creation had intended for the rat. Rather it was the destiny we humans inflicted on it--because we THOUGHT it was ok. Remember, almost no one ever FEELS that is ok.

The last point you made is the side I lean towards. I can talk hours about it, but if anyone is willing to work with DMT, they can see it for themselves. Its shocking how advanced, how 3D, how inteligent, how impossible, some realms there can be. Infinite intelligence and creativity.

If we destroy our egos through a deep understanding of the mind and the world, what will remain afterwards?

Let’s suppose that after years working on personal growth I am no longer attached to the ego’s desires. In this new state of mind, how should I conduct my life?

I could tell you that family and friends are the most important things to cling to after the “death (deep knowledge) of the ego”. But if they are not present? What if you are alone in the world?

What is the reason of being alive if there is no ego and I cannot apply my ego absence by living meaningful relationships? Should I spend the rest of my life contemplating Nature and that’s all? Surrounding myself with animals in order to get some nurturing? What should I pursue in my life under these circumstances? What would be a possible dream to achieve? If there are no solid relationships, can I live a life pursuing the destruction of my ego?

I know what you are saying and I agree with you: “DMT is the way to destroy the ego”.

I'm just wondering whether I could handle my life without it.

 

[LordFran]

If we destroy our egos through a deep understanding of the mind and the world, what will remain afterwards?

Let’s suppose that after years working on personal growth I am no longer attached to the ego’s desires. In this new state of mind, how should I conduct my life?

I could tell you that family and friends are the most important things to cling to after the “death (deep knowledge) of the ego”. But if they are not present? What if you are alone in the world?

What is the reason of being alive if there is no ego and I cannot apply my ego absence by living meaningful relationships? Should I spend the rest of my life contemplating Nature and that’s all? Surrounding myself with animals in order to get some nurturing? What should I pursue in my life under these circumstances? What would be a possible dream to achieve? If there are no solid relationships, can I live a life pursuing the destruction of my ego?

I know what you are saying and I agree with you: “DMT is the way to destroy the ego”.

I'm just wondering whether I could handle my life without it.

The ego is not something ones destroys...its something to let go of.

As for the fear of being alone; Loneliness will always be with one. There is no escaping it. The mistake is one makes a division between oneself and loneliness. One is loneliness. One is emptyness.

If one pays attention, there is not one second on this Earth in which we are alone.

When there is love, there is no need to be loved. So one will not seek nurture, but shall give nurture.

Life is relationship. So have meaningful relationships.

As for DMT vanishing the ego? Yes , it will do that...but only during the 5-10mins of the trip.

Then what?

So there is no one to rely on for ones own salvation but oneself. Nothing from the outside can change you.

 

[Ganjcat]

The ego is not something ones destroys...its something to let go of.

As for the fear of being alone; Loneliness will always be with one. There is no escaping it. The mistake is one makes a division between oneself and loneliness. One is loneliness. One is emptyness.

If one pays attention, there is not one second on this Earth in which we are alone.

When there is love, there is no need to be loved. So one will not seek nurture, but shall give nurture.

Life is relationship. So have meaningful relationships.

As for DMT vanishing the ego? Yes , it will do that...but only during the 5-10mins of the trip.

Then what?

So there is no one to rely on for ones own salvation but oneself. Nothing from the outside can change you.

Ego is not a bad or good thing its just a part of you like your eye colour if you want to change yourself because youve become 'enlightened' by some visual hallucinations cool but some peope see ego as being confident not cocky etc

Their are many different meanings we are all different etc thats just my two cents

 

[Yourbaker]

After 10 years of use of marijuana almost daily I don't see a diminishing emotional self but I do respond to emotions by choice now vs being led by emotions.

There is no less emotions presenting themselves to me consciously but I can see both the pointlessness of living in negative emotions and experience positive emotions whenever I wish.

A lot of non marijuana users seem to think somehow it's bad to not experience or live out your rage and anger and other childish feelings but after years of living in a happy, positive state I really don't think I'm buying the "need to feel argument".

If you have reached a state of contentment while being able to focus your energy on matters where you truly find joy and still fill a place in humanity, isn't that where you want to be?

I still feel anger and frustration but I can see these feelings have no value in my life and can't help those around me so their only purpose is to push me into action. Marijuana helps prevent me from just living in the feeling instead I act on it.

Perhaps for others the experience isn't as smooth or simple but for me I can't see any reason to change. I certainly don't have any fears of long term marijuana use. Feel free to ask me again in another 10 years.

 

[Phobos]

Cannabinoids agonists such as THC and synth noids upregulate (=increase in the density/number) of 5HT2A serotonin receptors, the ones that are believed to be one of the main targets sites for all stimulant type psychedelics (Ergolines, Tryptamines, Phenethylamines).
This is a slow but continuous change in the brain's neurotransmitter balance and for daily smokers this includes having your personality changed in some noticeable way.
We cannot say if this changes are positive or negative as this will probably be one of those things that need to be taken case by case, but I will express my opinion that who gets anxiety from weed after years of daily use might be looking at the consequences of increased 5HT2A expression.
I'm pretty sure that it is possible that upon cessation of cannabis use the brain might rebalance itself towards having less 5HT2A sites, but it might very well take years.

Please everyone remember that there is no grounds for considering anything safe or safer than something else on the base of being present in nature.
Drugs are drugs, it is research that establishes effects profiles, toxicity, etc...

 

[jose ribas da silva]

Cannabinoids agonists such as THC and synth noids upregulate (=increase in the density/number) of 5HT2A serotonin receptors, the ones that are believed to be one of the main targets sites for all stimulant type psychedelics (Ergolines, Tryptamines, Phenethylamines).
This is a slow but continuous change in the brain's neurotransmitter balance and for daily smokers this includes having your personality changed in some noticeable way.
We cannot say if this changes are positive or negative as this will probably be one of those things that need to be taken case by case, but I will express my opinion that who gets anxiety from weed after years of daily use might be looking at the consequences of increased 5HT2A expression.
I'm pretty sure that it is possible that upon cessation of cannabis use the brain might rebalance itself towards having less 5HT2A sites, but it might very well take years.

Please everyone remember that there is no grounds for considering anything safe or safer than something else on the base of being present in nature.
Drugs are drugs, it is research that establishes effects profiles, toxicity, etc...

I am pretty sure, for me, it will take years. Being even more pessimist, it is possible that my basal level never returns to normal. Drug abuse does not come without consequences

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I can also bet that weed induces bruxism

 

[jose ribas da silva]

Cannabinoids agonists such as THC and synth noids upregulate (=increase in the density/number) of 5HT2A serotonin receptors,

why does this happen? Do you know?

 

[jose ribas da silva]

Cannabinoids agonists such as THC and synth noids upregulate (=increase in the density/number) of 5HT2A serotonin receptors, the ones that are believed to be one of the main targets sites for all stimulant type psychedelics (Ergolines, Tryptamines, Phenethylamines).

does this mean that I am more prone to get high on psychedelics because I smoke cannabis? At least, one benefit, it could be worse

 

[Yourbaker]

Read this informative book.

Your brain on food

It will help you clear up a lot of the mysteries that may make you fearful of marijuana use. It may create some new fears about your use of sugar. But again don't take some random person's word for it learn what younare putting in your body and change your life for the better.

 

[Bo1992]

I've been smoking weed (daily) for about 15 years. I've taken other drugs as well, but none of them on a daily basis like I do with weed. I probably smoke around 5 g per day, which means I smoke from morning to night.

I started smoking daily at age 16. Now I have the impression that I can no longer feel, everything is on autopilot. Basically, everything sucks without weed.

I've read that weed interferes with the brain reward system and I'm wondering whether what I am feeling (that is, the absence of feeling) is a function of this.

Has anyone ever experienced this kind of situation?

No that is impossible lol

 

[Phobos]

No that is impossible lol

You are clearly misinformed and should educate yourself, for your own good.
That post contributes absolutely nothing and there are multiple studies about long term consequences of weed use.
At least motivate your claims when you make them.
Cannabis increases levels of dopamine in the brain, and when you use it daily for years and years that has a significant effect on you.

 

[Crowsonator2008]

Try just smoking in the evening, that's what I do because I've noticed my depression gets worse if I smoke all day.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

Try just smoking in the evening, that's what I do because I've noticed my depression gets worse if I smoke all day.

2 pm, finishing my second joint, I know I may eventually get anxious throughout the day but if I had control over myself, this thread would not have been created.

Moreover, it is an extra and effective exercise for self-mastery. I will give an example:

When I go to the gym and I am too high on cannabis, i get paranoid and anxious, because I am too high in a crowded place, there is a close eye contact with strangers, etc. That's obvious, this situation is something that I could avoid, but I cannot and i am not avoiding it.

My point is, I have learned how to identify when my anxiety is weed-induced and once it is identified, I can get some level of control over it by calming my mind recognizing that everything that I am feeling at that specific moment is a pure illusion, there is no danger, there is no reason to be worried. Under this perspective, continuing in a state of fear starts to sound ridiculous, that is, why should I suffer because of an illusion, illusion that has arisen from one of my pleasures in life, which is smoking. So I calm down

This has helped me to be myself, in the plenitude, totally me, no lies, no masks, no social appearances

I have assumed and trying to enjoy my own personality, not being ashamed of it as I was in the past, for some reasons.

I am a crazy person, I love drugs, I love blasphemy, I love sins, I love transvestites, I love intelligent stuff, I like sodomy, I want to speak about atoms and society, I can be one day smoking crack in favelas and other drinking a good wine in a fancy restaurant, I am pool of ambiguities.

 

[Crowsonator2008]

2 pm, finishing my second joint, I know I may eventually get anxious throughout the day but if I had control over myself, this thread would not have been created.

Moreover, it is an extra and effective exercise for self-mastery. I will give an example:

When I go to the gym and I am too high on cannabis, i get paranoid and anxious, because I am too high in a crowded place, there is a close eye contact with strangers, etc. That's obvious, this situation is something that I could avoid, but I cannot and i am not avoiding it.

My point is, I have learned how to identify when my anxiety is weed-induced and once it is identified, I can get some level of control over it by calming my mind recognizing that everything that I am feeling at that specific moment is a pure illusion, there is no danger, there is no reason to be worried. Under this perspective, continuing in a state of fear starts to sound ridiculous, that is, why should I suffer because of an illusion, illusion that has arisen from one of my pleasures in life, which is smoking. So I calm down

This has helped me to be myself, in the plenitude, totally me, no lies, no masks, no social appearances

I have assumed and trying to enjoy my own personality, not being ashamed of it as I was in the past, for some reasons.

I am crazy person, I love drugs, I love blasphemy, I love sins, I love transvestites, I love intelligent stuff, I like sodomy, I want to speak about atoms and society, I can be one day smoking crack in favelas and other drinking a good wine in a fancy restaurant, I am pool of ambiguities.

Damn we got some weird cats on here

 

[Yourbaker]

You are clearly misinformed and should educate yourself, for your own good.
That post contributes absolutely nothing and there are multiple studies about long term consequences of weed use.
At least motivate your claims when you make them.
Cannabis increases levels of dopamine in the brain, and when you use it daily for years and years that has a significant effect on you.

I agree with educating yourself, you have one body, why do unnecessary damage or live in fear while withholding medication from yourself.

Being a long term user I'd love a link to the studies you've mentioned that have been done on long term use. When I ask my doctor he doesnt have anything besides some short term issues with triggering psychosis in some people. I'd be very interested in following up on anything that is factual and not just some bad speculation based on statistical analysis.

 

[Phobos]

Cannabis can lead some people to anxiety, psychosis and paranoia, although AFAIK most users won't ever experience anything more than rare episodes of acute anxiety, YMMV.
It will modify the serotonin system as I already posted.
It acutely affects the attention span and short term memory, which is something that is not acute anymore if you smoke morning to night.
It induces melatonin release messing with sleep-wake cycle.

 

[Yourbaker]

I use it to improve my attention and focus.

With long term use I've found my memory isnt really affected any more. For a while I had to consult notes but i realized my memory had become a lot more photographic and much easier to literally look back and see the event like where i placed my keys etc.

Recipes i use even remotely often i look at from memory as well so that a plus.

I've read it has an effect on serotonin reuptake which should lower anxiety but I dont have any anxiety from weed personally so I'm unsure if that's accurate.

If you have any links to the studies you mentioned regarding long term negative effects I'd love to read them.

I've not found any info on melatonin release or effects to circadian cycles. I've converted thc to CBN and used it as a sleep aid if that's how it can be used to trigger melatonin it works well.