The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

[JessFR]

I don't get the sense Reps love him. My impression, but they are tolerating him because it's better than siding with the Dems.

If we look at what Trump is doing - is the question if he is doing it to benefit himself, or to benefit (as he sees it) America? I believe that is the question, is it not? I expect anyone can find a path that anything a person does is done to benefit themselves - it's like manipulating statistics to get the answer you want. But, at a realistic look, is he acting to benefit himself, his party, to undermine the Democrats?

Talks with Korea....this benefits him how?
Trade war with China - done to improve his personal pocket, or American businesses?
Moving the military towards Iran - a personal interest, or for America's interests?
The border wall, I can see the personal gain in achieving a platform promise when he was running and not having that addressed serves a personal plus or minus. But how much does an influx of illegal aliens effect him and his personal empire vs America, her ability to support those in need (Americans vs Americans+Aliens), etc?

I believe he is acting in what he believes is America's best interest. Others will disagree, or not, but I believe he has the right intent. We will all have different views on if those actions are the right ones, but it is not clear that all of America is aligned on the approach to any given issue. Take immigration, the left says let them in, the right says to keep them out. Trump was elected by the right and is going for what they want.

The guy is undeniably an egotistical narcissist. But his policies, I think, are more shaped by what he believes he was elected to put in place as opposed to what serves him personally.

I don't agree. The big thing to note here, in my opinion anyway. Is that an action can be taken for selfish, self serving reasons, and yet still be in fact not in his interests.

I believe many of his actions are essentially shooting himself in the foot. But that he fails to recognize it. And I think many other of his actions he fundamentally knows don't really materially advantage him. But are still taken not for the greater good of the country, but in service of feeding his ego.

They are all still selfish acts taken for his own advantage. Even if that advantage is purely psychological rather than material.

A smart self serving individual will know what advice to take, and realize when they're wrong, and will act on those options in service to their ultimate benefit. Such as profit. But for a narcissist like trump. His own ego, and being seen by others the way he'd like, is just as valuable as money and other material gains. And many of his actions I believe serve the goal of feeding his ego or projecting an image he likes, all selfish goals. In spite of offering no material gain.

I don't believe trump attempts to act in the interest of America first and foremost. I think it's all self serving in one form or another. Which is why I have a far lower opinion of him, and far less forgiveness towards his behaviors. Than say Obama or Bush. Whom I could believe were often, rightly or wrongly, attempting to act in the nations interest rather than their own.

Intent matters to me. I dont know for a fact that bush and obamas intent were always pure. But overall my instinct gives them far more benefit of the doubt. Whereas my instincts tell me that nearly everything trump does is motivated by self interest in one form or another. Even if it isn't always material, and even if sometimes it's actually against his interests.

 

[Ganjcat]

I think trump could win a war with iran hes actually a good strategist he also has military history himself

 

[JessFR]

What military history? Far as I'm aware he has the least military background of any president.. well, ever.

Regardless I don't agree. Narcissists aren't good leaders. Nobody who can't recognize and take good advice is a good leader.

We have one great military strategists. But trump isn't one of them, and the ones we have arent useful so long as the president thinks he knows better.

 

[Ganjcat]

What if he just decided to say fuck it and nuke them no one would be able to do anything anyway because they wouldn't want to piss off crazy trump Iran wouldn't stand a chance..

 

[JessFR]

What if he just decided to say fuck it and nuke them no one would be able to do anything anyway because they wouldn't want to piss off crazy trump Iran wouldn't stand a chance..

If he did that. It would be devastating to world peace.

It would convince China, Russia, and other world powers that trump is an unstable madman if he were to exercise such disproportionate force.

Peace in the nuclear age is fragile. It relies on all sides believing all the other sides are too concerned with their own survival to ever strike first, thus nobody else need strike first either.

If trump did that, other nuclear powers will start wondering what it would take for trump to nuke them. It would destabilize the whole world and could be the beginning of a chain of events that ends in world War 3.

The problem with thinking nobody would do anything for fear of trump is that it fails to consider someone doing something precisely because of that fear. If you can't rely on "because it would be crazy" as the reason the US won't launch a first strike against you, there stops being a reason not to strike first yourselves.

There's no point in not acting out of fear of retribution if your enemy has shown that it doesn't care about proportionate response.

 

[Ganjcat]

I mean I hope not but you never know Trump could be the man to set off ww3 or iran and trump just gets the blame anyway more likely

 

[JessFR]

Iran can't realistically set of ww3. World War would be a substantial loss for all the major powers. That's why they don't start it.

If a rouge state did something suicidally crazy, it's very likely all the major powers will use it as justification to wipe them out to preserve the status quo rather than use it to start world war 3.

The danger of ww3 starts as soon as any one of the powers stops behaving in its own interest in the eyes of the other powers. Which is exactly what trump nuking Iran would be.

A giant sign to Russia and China saying “how long till I nuke you too?“

 

[Xorkoth]

I think trump could win a war with iran hes actually a good strategist he also has military history himself

His military history involves making up a reason to dodge the draft for Vietnam. Look it up, it's not speculation, it's fact. "Bone spurs"... yeah... either way, even if it's a real excuse, he has no history with the military, despite stating that he does several times.

 

[alasdairm]

...he also has military history himself

can you explain what you mean here?

thanks.

alasdair

 

[novaveritas]

I think trump could win a war with iran hes actually a good strategist he also has military history himself

military history or draft dodging weasel depends on which alternative truth you like. Trump does have history with the military mostly a childish infatuation with tanks and parades and suchlike. It doesn't really matter because the first step of a successful military campaign is to have a clear objective, in the case of Iran what is American objective? something like the Iraq gulf war 2 gameplan, military defeat of the Iranian forces followed by US occupation and installation of a puppet regime.that is not going to happen without much American blood and treasure being wasted.

If it is fighting for its survival, Iran also has the ability to inflict globally significant destruction and pain. To destroy Saudi oil facilities, close the Straits of Hormuz, get Hezbollah to rain tens of thousands of rockets onto Northern Israel and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop that should they choose that path.

Trump is pissed at Iran because he is surrounded by neocon imbeciles like Bolton, and Bibi Netanyahu has a direct line into Trumps brain. Israel and the House of Saud have a problem with Iran because Iran is blocking regional hegemony of that unholy alliance. Going forward Saudi is almost out of oil what oil there is in in Shia areas of Saudi Arabia, on the other hand Iran still has plenty and Iran will be an integral part of the Belt and Road
there is a saying
My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel
Saudi and Israel think they have to destroy Iran now whilst they have the ability. Saudi is driving a Land Rover at this point and the western installed puppet regime House of Saud will not survive the end of plentiful oil.

The more beliigerent the US and Saudi Arabia get towards Iran, the more likely the Iraqis will expel US forces from Iraq, leaving the significant numbers of US forces in Eastern Syria cut off sandwiched between the SAA and Iran aligned militia in Iraq.

 

[Ganjcat]

Every general says Trump is is the best president but what to top decorated generals know..

 

[JessFR]

Wrong. Every general says that trump is an incompetent buffoon.

See I can make up facts too.

What do top generals know? Apparently whatever they know seems to regularly cause them to either stop working with Trump or be made to resign.

What do they know indeed.

 

[alasdairm]

...he also has military history himself

can you explain what you mean here?

second time asking.

thanks.

alasdair

 

[Ganjcat]

I mean he has history in the military if you want the detaiks, mate look it up yourself I cba messing sbout to pull up old links and articles especially since it probably wont make a difference you im on the other side of the politcal offense but i do enjoy blowing off steam on this thread and debating politics

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah his history is HE DIDN'T SERVE IN THE MILITARY because of BONE SPURS, lol. What defective genes and he thinks he's the genetic cream of the crop. Joke, failure, race traitor and bigot all wrapped up in one nasty, dirty old man.

Oh but that's OK though because we still have ~ 4% unemployment, tons of people in line for benefits and the big corporations got huge tax cuts so it's all good.

The only reason we haven't had a revolution is that poor people are stupid and no amount of free education will teach people to do math. This leads to Cortez and "Someone else will pay for it!" policies. Both left and right are trying to reverse engineer and back-pedal through time instead of moving forward.

 

[Xorkoth]

Every general says Trump is is the best president but what to top decorated generals know..

Honestly I don't know where this is even coming from because it's just fully false. More than one general has stopped working with Trump, stating reasons that he is incompetent, unhinged, and immoral. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.

I mean he has history in the military if you want the detaiks, mate look it up yourself I cba messing sbout to pull up old links and articles especially since it probably wont make a difference you im on the other side of the politcal offense but i do enjoy blowing off steam on this thread and debating politics

I don't think you have any links because they don't exist. It's common knowledge that he never served in the military and had a family doctor invent an excuse for why he refused the draft for Vietnam (bone spurs was the claim). Here is a link: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html. Not that I think it will make any difference.

 

[alasdairm]

I mean he has history in the military if you want the detaiks, mate look it up yourself I cba messing sbout to pull up old links and articles especially since it probably wont make a difference you im on the other side of the politcal offense but i do enjoy blowing off steam on this thread and debating politics

really? if you make a claim and won't back it up, your credibility is hard to accept.

but, as you won't i will. i looked it up.

as far as i can tell, his full military history consists of 5 draft deferments during the vietnam war - one for "heel spurs". in july 2016 president trump described that condition as "temporary" and "minor". obviously not too temporary or minor to get him out of the draft. the other 4 deferments were for education.

i can not find any other examples of trump's "history in the military".

can you help me understand how this history in any way informs his knowledge or strategy when it comes to iran?

if you enjoy debating politics, i would imagine you'd jump at the chance to substantiate your claim... if you can't be arsed, i'll just draw the obvious conclusion.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

from today: Trump gives up the game he’s playing with Congress during Fox News interview

Trump admits he’s relying on the courts — not Congress — to change policy.

During an interview on Steve Hilton’s Fox News show on Sunday, President Donald Trump bragged about how rapidly his administration is getting stuff done. But he revealed a profound misunderstanding of how federal lawmaking is supposed to work in the process.

“We’re changing laws as rapidly as we can get them through the courts,” Trump said.

We call on Congress to begin reclaiming its constitutional powers from the bureaucratic state by requiring that major new federal regulations be approved by Congress before they can take effect, such as through the Regulation Freedom Amendment. We further affirm that courts should interpret laws as written by Congress rather than allowing executive agencies to rewrite those laws to suit administration priorities.

are there any republicans/general-right-leaners here who are concerned about trump's shift to judicial activism?

related hypocrisy: Trump Rejects ‘Judicial Activism and Policymaking from the Bench’

alasdair

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Every general says Trump is is the best president but what to top decorated generals know..

I mean he has history in the military if you want the detaiks, mate look it up yourself I cba messing sbout to pull up old links and articles especially since it probably wont make a difference you im on the other side of the politcal offense but i do enjoy blowing off steam on this thread and debating politics

You have repeatedly put shit out there that is unfounded, used it as an argument, and retreated when challenged to hide behind laziness and fear of being called out (which you have been). It really isn't that hard to make an assertion of fact and back it up with a minimum of proof, unless you are totally pulling it out of your ass. And if that's your resource, I understand the lack of anything to back it up, but then attention quickly shifts to the WHY of you making these statements.

I wanted to say I was happy to see you posting again, but quite honestly, all it appears you are doing in this thread now is throwing shit against the wall for a reaction. That's well known on the internet at trolling and likely won't fly for long. You don't have to accept opposing points of view, but if you wish to assert your view, please back it up.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

are there any republicans/general-right-leaners here who are concerned about trump's shift to judicial activism?

I'm not happy with it, but all I can offer is the same answer you've heard before. When a President can't get Congress to align with his direction, he uses the tools his predecessors have used to achieve their goals. I hated it with previous Presidents, and won't like it a bit with Trump, but he's not carving a new path or rewriting his powers, he's doing what others have done.

I know we've had the discussion that others doing something wrong doesn't make it acceptable for the next guy. But tell me, even if Trump managed to avoid using judicial activism, do you think any who follow him wouldn't fall back to it if facing an antagonistic congress?