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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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^ indeed.

Yes, "the left" essentially represents your imaginary utopia. Arguably the most murderous ideology in recorded history. How many more millions must die in the pursuit of this insanity?
this is little more than hyperbole. draw a line for me between "the left" in the united states in 2019 and how many people they've murdered?

i know you're having fun with this but let's try to maintain a little perspective?

when people accuse you of trolling, i'm guessing it's this kind of post they have in mind.

on the topic of this thread, this is an interesting development. this isn't more of the same... the senate select committee on intelligence has a republican majority and is chaired by a republican.

alasdair
 
Trump 'marveled' at the fact one of his tweets seemed to move the stock market

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Amid talks with with China — which by Friday evening had failed to produce a trade deal — Trump sent a tweet, hinting at " future negotiations."

In a Friday interview with Politico, held shortly after Trump hit send on this tweet, "Unprompted, the president marveled about the instant effect his China-related tweet had on stock prices."

President Donald Trump has a predilection for tweeting about the economy, trade, specific companies, and the stock market. Bloomberg, in fact, tracks his market-related Tweets.

And he seems to be aware that his tweets can have at least a short-lived impact.

"It seems to be having quite an impact on the market," Trump said according to Politico. "I looked — the market was down. Now I think it's up 181.44. So, it shows you what happens."

According to Forbes, however, Trump's specific naming of companies, which often are in his market-moving tweets, are not that dissimilar to other presidents, though they are "on a broader scale." (Presidents John F. Kennedy and Harry Truman also has an impact on industries, Forbes points out.)

A study done in 2017 at Northeastern University looked at Trump's tweets from his election to his inauguration, that "identified ten publicly traded firms."

"Using standard event study methods, we find that positive (negative) content tweets elicited positive (negative) abnormal returns on the event date and virtually all of this effect is from the opening stock price to the close," the study explains. "Within five trading days, the CARs are no longer statistically significant."

Of course, Trump's tweets about trade deals are different in nature, with the markets responding differently than they would to him calling out a specific company.

On Thursday, ahead of the tariff increase, there were jitters on Wall Street over the trade war escalation. Some had hoped for a postponement of the tariff increase, CNBC reported, with traders noting that positive news could come via Twitter.

"You're living in a world where one Trump tweet can change everything," Art Cashin, UBS' director of floor operations at the New York Stock Exchange, told CNBC.

On Friday at 12:01 a.m. ET, the US increased tariffs from 10% to 25% on roughly $200 billion worth of Chinese goods; the markets initially dropped in reaction, but "bounced back," the Wall Street Journal reported.
 
this is little more than hyperbole. draw a line for me between "the left" in the united states in 2019 and how many people they've murdered?
You ask this in response to my pointing out that Communism is "Arguably the most murderous ideology in recorded history". I did this in response to another who explained "the left" in these terms:

...the left wants in general is just for everyone to get along and work together... dissolution of nationalism and creating one global culture is the only way... If we get real, clean up the environment, work together, respect where we are and respect each other, we can do anything.

The leftist Utopia...brings back memories of USSR propaganda posters. How quaint.

As for your question, I did not say that the left has murdered anyone in the US. My original point was that the left has no boundaries. Anything goes. Nothing is ruled out.
Go to the next "Climate Rally" and see what it's all about. Who is holding these rallies? Who is pushing the Climate Scam? Virtually every stall is openly pushing for Communism. It is basically one giant Commie fest.
That is the left today, without boundaries. No leftist stands up and says "look here - this group is going to far - they are not a part of us".
Nothing is too radical for the loony left. Communists? Sure..why not. Welcome comrades.
No one is being murdered in the US by communists. No one is saying that.
What I am pointing out is that the left readily embraces this murderous ideology. Does not reject it. It is at the heart of the left.

Isn't this a disappointment for you?

I would be disappointed if conservatives embraced/excused/accepted hordes of angry youths waving nazi flags - holding rallies with stalls handing out nazi propaganda, Hitler's book "Mein Kampf" etc...which would be pretty much the same thing.
This never happens because the right has boundaries. Many boundaries. Consistent boundaries. Stable boundaries.

The left has abandoned reason. the left is insanity. Remind me again, how many genders are there?

Not trolling. Not even lolling :oops:
This is me, expressing myself mildly. Is it really so offensive?
 
i know you're having fun with this but let's try to maintain a little perspective?

when people accuse you of trolling, i'm guessing it's this kind of post they have in mind.

hang on loool...I nearly missed that.
I do enjoy the company of this little group here. Of course.
Aren't you having fun? I'm asking sincerely.
I hope you are.
Even the most serious moments on the BL Trump thread can (should) be handled with a smile :)
 
The leftist Utopia...brings back memories of USSR propaganda posters. How quaint.

Because the USSR (a communist state) used similar ideas to motivate people does not mean that anyone with those ideals is equivalent to them, or that realizing those ideals would result in the same thing. I'm not talking about being communist, or even socialist. I'm just talking about not hating each other for perceived differences that are cultural or superficial. Mixing cultures to facilitate world peace because of dissolving these boundaries that don't need to exist. I'm not talking about making the whole world one country, I'm talking about aiming to eliminate xenophobia and isolationism, and halting of more powerful countries pillaging smaller countries under the pretense of spreading democracy. And cleaning up the environment so we have a future on the planet.

Remind me again, how many genders are there?

I never understand how this is an argument. Do you know your gender? Good for you, why do you care how other people feel about themselves? Is it threatening for some reason? That's typically the reason people get up in arms about other peoples' business.
 
The left has no boundaries. When we look to the extreme right, we can see things like white nationalism, which is deemed "going too far". That boundary is well established and agreed on by all.
When we look to the left, there are no boundaries. Anything goes. The left is staring into the abyss of insanity.

It's a great point, and one I honestly hadn't considered. If a person identifies on the right, they can point to white nationalism and say 'that is not me or my beliefs', being that they are too extreme and fairly well defined. If a person identifies on the left, they can point to perhaps Antifa as that far extreme that is not part of their beliefs. I think the idea that it is boundless comes from a lack of consideration or having been on that side of center. I'm get a bit hung up on the non-extreme spectrum within the right or left, in that someone on the right may say all the left has these beliefs (welfare is good, LGBQT should be accepted, corporations are bad) when in fact it should be expected that support of these ideas is mixed, hit or miss, depending on the individual you are speaking with. It would be just as fair to say anyone on the right has all these beliefs (profit is good, Christianity should be a basis for everything, people should take care of themsleves) when in fact you will find a mix of people in that spectrum that support different aspects, but certainly not all beliefs ascribed to 'the right'. Again, I'm getting hung up on the variations in the middle and you were pointing to the extremes. After now considering it, I think the left does have bounds. Two simple ones jump to the forefront. First, of course is the Antifa movement, primarily in their willingness to engage violence to meet their needs. They are the best example I can provide of a left boundary comparable to white nationalism. The second I'd offer is Socialism, as it is antithesis to all that the right hold dear, but even on the left you will find people that feel that is going too far from the America they know and want.


Have you considered that perhaps it's extremism that's the problem rather than specifically which ideological extreme you follow? Sure, extreme left wing ideologies in the form of communism have resulted in enormous numbers of people dead. But so has extreme right wing ideologies.

Extremism is most definitely A problem in any direction. But for an example, can you point out any right wing ideologies that have killed millions or ruined economies?
 
The fact he is indicating he HAS AWARENESS HE IS MANIPULATING THE STOCK MARKET is quite sickening.

Presidents have always influenced the economy (and stock market in particular) with what they say and do. Go to war? Market swings. Announce major gov't spending programs or tax changes? Market swings. The fact that a president can do this should not be a surprise (including to the President). The change is that while Obama was likely the first to really use Twitter to communicate, Trump takes it up by a factor of 10, and he is likewise scrutinized for it.\

He needs to be impeached.

Fair opinion to have, but not connected to the first part of your statement.
 
Of course there are aspects of left-wing thought which the large majority of the population doesn't endorse and is thus considered "extreme". The same is also true of the right-wing.

The claim that "the opposite side of the political spectrum has been completely hijacked by nuts, while my own side exercises far too much restraint & discretion for that to ever happen" just makes the person making that claim look like a partisan doofus/hack IMO
 
I never understand how this is an argument. Do you know your gender? Good for you, why do you care how other people feel about themselves? Is it threatening for some reason? That's typically the reason people get up in arms about other peoples' business.

Here's where I think the difference may lie - it was a clear objectively understood standard that has become subjective, and controlled by the individual.

Until now, you could always describe someone as tall-short, black-white, fast-slow, boy-girl, fat-skinny. All of those remain objectively evaluated by anyone today except one. Yes, I get that they are relative in that a fat guy may think someone is skinny, while a skinny guy may think that same person is fat. But defining fat and skinny remains a straightforward comparison and evaluation with known definitions. With a known way of describing people, you have a set of rules or expectations to go with that definition. You won't expect a fat guy to fit thru a small door or run fast. Everyone has common expectations of an individual and they have a common idea of how to interact with that person.

Race is slightly different in that it has evolved significantly over the past 50y. If a black man today walks up to another black man and refers to him by the n-word, it can be acceptable. A white person isn't allowed to say the word to that same black man, or anyone actually, as it is not socially acceptable. It used to be, but it isn't anymore. There are a lot of racial stereotypes that have been broken down (perhaps not erased, but lessened by and large). My point here is that there used to be clearly defined rules and expectations between blacks and whites in America. We may not agree with what those were, but everyone clearly understood the rules, expectations, and how to interact with someone based on easily observable skin color. We still have rules and expectations, they've evolved significantly from then (YAY!) but we still have that generally common understanding of how person A sees and speaks with person B.

It used to be women wore dresses or skirts, men wore pants. Simple, easily observable differences to help all of us know who we are dealing with, what are the rules and expectations between two persons. Women evolved into wearing more pants, shirts, etc. This made the clothing gender neutral, but you could still generally tell if you were interacting with a man or woman and the socially understood rules and norms applied. Interestingly, men wearing heels and dresses remained 'out' in terms of social acceptability, but you absolutely still knew you were dealing with a man, and he knew he'd get dealt with as a man. Nowadays, it doesn't matter what you see or think you see, you have to respect the other person based on what they feel themselves to be. This creates a confusing situation in that most don't want to offend, but don't necessarily know who they are dealing with to be able to follow any kind of rules they know. Likewise, some may wish to offend, and this lays easy groundwork to troll and insult this way once you know who you are dealing with. But even if you 'know'....the other person could, by the same theory that allows them to see themselves as another gender, to then change their mind back.

We still can't see people without race. As much as we may try, this is not something we can 'unsee' or not have partially recognize and drive certain behaviour or expectations. Same for seeing someone fat or slow. These are factors of who that person is. The best we can hope for is to keep moving to the point where we see these things, we don't see them as a difference that drives different rules or expectations. We STILL can't expect a slow person to go fast, or a skinny person to be fat, but for the most part these don't matter. Skin color, we are moving closer, matters less and less. Gender, is still very early in shifting the rules, and they are damn hard to define for anyone outside their own skin. I think we'll get closer to it not mattering, but for now it is still a very uncomfortable shift for many as it says their roles and expectations are no longer valid, and they are struggling to find a new way to interact with such individuals.

My favorite mind concept for this is to pretend you're on a phone call with them. It takes all visual cues out of the equation, and while accents and speech patterns will still indicate or influence your interaction with the person on the other end, you will never really know if they are tall-short, fat-skinny, ... and it proves these really don't matter. There are still audio clues on a phone that will guide you towards race or ethnic supposition, but you can better control how much that influences your interaction. For gender, you're still screwed by hearing a feminine or masculine voice into having certain predisposed rules or expectations come into play. This hurts conversations with a person who's voice sounds to the other gender, which hurts communication, but hopefully we move further from the gender sound of a voice mattering.
 
on the topic of this thread, this is an interesting development. this isn't more of the same... the senate select committee on intelligence has a republican majority and is chaired by a republican.

Wait, wut...there was a topic here? ;)

Oh, yeah.

Trump refused to release his tax returns during the 2016 presidential campaign in a break with decades of precedent from previous presidents. Legal experts have said Mnuchin’s refusal to turn over the returns is unprecedented, noting a 1924 law that explicitly gives lawmakers the authority to seek the records.

...

Neal first demanded six years of Trump’s personal and business returns, from 2013 to 2018, in letters to the administration last month.

Neal’s subpoenas demand that for these years Mnuchin and Rettig turn over Trump’s individual income tax returns, all “administrative files” such as affidavits for those income tax returns, and income tax returns for a number of Trump’s business holdings such as the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, an umbrella entity that controls dozens of other businesses including the Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida.


I don't see where there is room for debate. If the "law that explicitly gives lawmakers the authority to seek the records" then they will come out, one way or another. Furthermore, if the earlier Trump years that the NYT raised again to show his billion dollar loss(es?) don't go very deep into his business and only offer a profit-loss-deduction view, how much can come from these as well? Just f'n give them up, Trump.

I see where Congress is seeking for 2013-2016, which would be the right window to see ... what? What is it this is supposed to be looking into? What's the goal in having his tax returns? Is this another attempt to see if Russia (or anyone else) is funneling money to him, to compromise his Presidency? I'm sorry, I've just watched a 2y investigation find nothing of Trump doing things wrong (other than possible obstruction), so what is the goal here? Unless this is another means to extend "but RUSSIA!!" I'm not sure what this is intended to achieve. As a President, I think Trump should follow the precedent others before him have done to show they have nothing to hide, especially if the law says Congress can see it - end of discussion, share them.


But what is the real point being played here? Is Congress (primarily Dems, but getting Reps to join in now?) seeking to drag his Presidency under a microscope and prevent him from doing much? Or is there a real concern of wrongdoing that hasn't been uncovered by the Mueller Investigation?

For Trump, what is the real point being played here? Is he fighting it just because of his ego and 'I don't wanna"? Or does he actually have something to hide? Is he fighting it simply to occupy Congress who is intent on harassing him? If he knows he has nothing to hide - handing it over means they move onto something else that may in fact have skeletons in the closet, whereas fighting it means a huge waste of Congress' time and another nothing burger when they finally get it.

I don't get what either side is doing here.



EDIT: Acknowledging there is a Rep now in the group asking for the tax returns, but this is primarily a Dem exercise, do members of Congress not see the precedent of harassment being laid for ALL future Presidents? And what is to keep it from being applied to Congressmen?
 
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I see where Congress is seeking for 2013-2016, which would be the right window to see ... what? What is it this is supposed to be looking into?

Who does Trump owe money to and where are they located?
Most big banks have more than a passing relationship with the government of that country.

do members of Congress not see the precedent of harassment being laid for ALL future Presidents? And what is to keep it from being applied to Congressmen?

Like having to show your birth certificate? I'm not sure how this plays out with the next POTUS, but Trump is just getting the pointy end right now.

Trump is threatening both branches of government (there's a judicial thing... I'll post it later) and is an amateur politician. He should expect a hard time and a microscope and maybe he should have fired some people with tact.

C'mon.
 
I think he was being sarcastic

You might be right. Though, I didn't detect any sarcasm when I read it. Admitidly tricky to do with text alone. I considered that possibility when I replied. But I'd rather take it seriously and have it be sarcasm than assume it's sarcasm and have it turn out to be serious.
 
Trump’s ‘Maximum Pressure’ Won’t Make Iran Yield

The one thing Tehran would find more intolerable than the crushing impact of sanctions is raising the white flag because of them.

Ali Vaez
Director of the Iran project at the International Crisis Group

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The entrance to the Ali Qapu, the royal palace, in Isfahan, IranGHAITH ABDUL-AHAD / GETTY

A magnificent fresco adorns the main pavilion of the royal palace in the Iranian city of Isfahan, depicting the 16th-century Battle of Chaldiran, fought between the Turkish-Ottoman and Persian-Safavid empires. The fresco appears to show the Persian army victorious, having crushed its Turkish adversary. The truth is that Chaldiran marked a decisive victory for the Ottomans, who went on to annex eastern Anatolia and northern Iraq. But what the self-serving historical distortion suggests is not shame of defeat but pride in the heroic valor with which the Iranians resisted a foe that outnumbered them and, unlike them, possessed heavy artillery. Donald Trump’s administration, which has made bringing Iranians to their knees the cornerstone of its Mideast policy half a millennium later, should draw a lesson from the battle and the way the Persians digested defeat.

It has been one year since President Trump reneged on the 2015 nuclear deal that rolled back Iran’s nuclear activities and placed them under the most rigorous international inspection regime ever implemented anywhere. Then came one of the most draconian sanctions regimes ever imposed by Washington on any adversary. So far, the U.S. Treasury has blacklisted nearly 1,000 Iranian entities and individuals, targeting nearly all sectors of Iran’s economy.

There can be little doubt that the administration’s “maximum pressure” policy is inflicting considerable economic harm on Iran. Economic growth that followed the lifting of sanctions in 2016 has given way to an inflationary recession. The Iranian currency has lost two-thirds of its value, as oil exports have dropped by more than half and will likely fall further still. Although food and medicine are exempt from sanctions, lack of access to the global financial system is giving rise to a humanitarian crisis. Some families have not been able to eat meat for months and are suffering from shortages of specialized medicine.

To date, however, there is no sign that either Iran’s regional policies are shifting or its leaders are willing to come back to the negotiating table and submit to the Trump administration’s demands. Nor is there any hint that economic hardship has triggered popular unrest of a magnitude that would threaten the regime’s survival. In the absence of any visible shift in Tehran’s political calculus, Washington is presentingthe sanctions’ impact by no metric other than their quantity and severity.

There appears to be a belief among U.S. policy makers, almost congealed into doctrine, that Iran will cave to nothing less than massive pressure, a point it clearly has not reached. With U.S. elections at the end of next year, the administration is therefore responding to Iran’s refusal to concede defeat by doubling down, and it’s going about it in a hurry. It has resorted to the unprecedented steps of designating a state entity, Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, a “foreign terrorist organization,” and of trying to push Iran’s oil exports to zero almost overnight.

This policy is unlikely to succeed for three main reasons.

First and most important: The one thing Tehran would find more intolerable than the crushing impact of sanctions is raising the white flag because of them. Convinced that Trump’s national-security team is bent on toppling the Islamic Republic, the Iranian leadership views economic sanctions as just one in a range of measures designed to destabilize it. Its counterstrategy can be summed up in two words: Resist and survive. The mere act of survival would constitute victory, however pyrrhic.

Tehran believes it has history on its side. Neither besiegement nor prolonged economic suffering is new to Iran’s rulers or its people. They have previously witnessed nearly half of the country’s oil revenue evaporate during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, again during the Asian financial crisis in 1997, and a third time as a result of the European oil embargo and U.S. sanctions in 2012. They know how to get around sanctions and keep state and society afloat.

Second, Tehran feels compelled to prove to U.S. policy makers the bankruptcy of their belief that severe pressure can force Tehran to yield. Iran may have sued for compromise when it faced potential existential threats in the past, but strategic gain outweighed the cost each time. In 1988, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini reluctantly declared that he would “drink from the poison chalice,” agreeing to a cease-fire with Iraq. But when the guns fell silent, after having suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties, Iran had managed to consolidate the young republic’s rule without losing an inch of territory. A similar logic applied in 2003, when after the U.S. invasion of Iraq and, separately, the exposure of Iran’s secret nuclear activities, Tehran pushed the pause button on the nuclear program, lest it become the next target for regime change, and proposed a grand bargain to Washington. Nothing came of what was essentially an invitation to dialogue, in part because the Bush administration’s Iraq adventure proved a strategic disaster.

And third, if past is prologue, Iran will not negotiate with Washington unless it knows it has a relatively strong hand. As Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei put it, when Iran entered into serious (but then still secret) negotiations with the United States in 2012, it had accumulated significant leverage, in the form of thousands of nuclear centrifuges, tons of low-enriched uranium, bunkered uranium-enrichment facilities, and a nearly completed heavy-water reactor.

President Barack Obama took two additional steps that persuaded Iran to talk and ultimately reach a deal: He took regime change off the table and openly declared that Iran, in principle, would be allowed to enrich uranium on its own soil. So if coercive diplomacy was a factor in bringing Iran to the table, it was not the only, and perhaps not even the principal, one. Iran had built up leverage that it could trade against the lifting of sanctions, and it was offered a realistic way forward. Today the Iranian leadership sees nothing of the sort. That is why it rolled back some of its commitments this week and issued an ultimatum to the deal’s remaining parties that either they step up to salvage the deal or it would step aside from its commitments.

These factors suggest that whatever the benefits, great risks are built into Trump’s maximum-pressure campaign. For one thing, it increases the threat of a nuclear escalation: If Iran reneges on its obligations under the nuclear deal, the United States and Israel will respond by targeting Iran’s resurgent nuclear program, and Iran might direct its allies in the region to target Western assets and personnel.

But even without such a nightmare scenario, the Trump administration’s approach is self-defeating in the long term. The sanctions will reduce Iran’s pro-Western middle class to tatters at a time when the country stands in front of a major transition to a post-1979 leadership. Regime hard-liners, meanwhile, stand to benefit financially from sanctions through their control of the black market and politically through their control of a repressive apparatus to put down dissent. The net effect is a country with its economy in ruins but its regime intact—a political victory snatched from the jaws of economic defeat.

Sanctions, the U.S. travel ban, and a lack of sensitivity to Iranians’ sense of dignitycould combine to harden the perception that U.S. policy is indiscriminate and implacable. This is a formula for perpetuating enmity between the two countries for another generation.

Trump and his closest advisers may discover that history will not bend to their will. Rather than trying to achieve the unattainable goal of Iran’s surrender, they should act to prevent another costly U.S. war of choice. This would require stepping back from maximalist demands, and using sanctions as a scalpel, not a chainsaw. In practice, that would mean lifting sanctions gradually and conditionally. The question is whether Trump can find his way out of the escalating confrontation, toward win-win negotiations.

Interesting "Ideas" piece about Iran.

This 'maximum pressure' tactic that Trump uses to negotiate should be applied with some care.

I'm just hoping hostilities with Iran don't escalate. ?
 
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