The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

[Xorkoth]

It seems to me it's you guys that are angry and miserable at the whole world, and are sadly grasping at this con-man to be the one to finally return you to your former greatness as the undisputed masters of your domain, lords over all other races and genders, comfortable and unquestioning in your perception of how things should be. Whereas the rest of us are appalled and concerned at this reaching back towards isolationism and xenophobia apparent in the western world, and are angry that there's a guy empowering that and undermining so much that we've worked for in office.

 

[totach]

I am really surprised that I am being judged for being a trump supporter by fellow bluelighters . I thought we were all supposed to relate to each other and all be about harm reduction but yet I feel judged for being a trump supporter . I am 33 years old and being a heroin addict for 15 . So I am no one to judge people .
I am really disappointed with bluelight for hating on me for my conservative views .
So yea just like many trump supporters are scared to be public about it I feel like I have to do the same here which is sad .
I do not agree with all of trumps views but I do believe he’s done a great job with moving the economy along . Not a little bitch when it came to approaching Putin , Kim, and trying to overthrow that shit Maduro.
Whatever you believe about Russian collision at the end of the day Russian and American ties are the best they bin in years and that’s what’s important .
I’m not saying obstruction or lying is allowed but if the media ever instigated any other president like they did trump I guarantee you that you would find worse shit . This is a with hunt and the dems will do anything they can to impeach trump .
Even pelosi which hates trump with a passion Is not for impeachment .
All these millions spent on this stupid Müller report and all this bs could have went to all the poor the dems say they wanna help.
But if you’ve realized all dems run on how there gonna hell the poor blah blah but once elected do jackshit for them .
People allready forgot how warren raised millions to prove that trump lost the election, what a waste of money and yet she gets to run again is lacking behind by so much but yet thinks she had a voice .
I am not trumps biggest fan but am a fan but am also open to a centrist winning the president in 2020 . So if Bloomberg decides to run I wouldn’t mind if he wins and same goes for Shultz .
Again hate on me all you want but I’m very disappointed with the judgment . I never have and never will judge anyone on bluelight for whatever reason . At the end off the day most of us are here for support to get or stay sober . So yea I’ve bin around for like 15 years and never felt the way I do now about BL . I almost canceled my account .
Anyways to all the trump haters . Be open for debate but don’t judge me . Maybe if you heard me out then you’re ould understand why I am a trump supporter . I am neither racist not a billionaire . I have other political views that interest me . My grammar might not be good but that’s cuz I’m multi lingual which is irrelevant but I only mention it cuz I’m sure people will read this and think cuz my grammar sux my iq is not high enough to understand why I like trump.
I know plenty of people that choose to be a dem of rep and have no clue why . All they think is the dems are for the poor and reps for the rich.
I was not the biggest fan of bush as a republican and probably would have preferred dems won but the dem party had gone way to left and even considering electing a socialist which is ridiculous to me .
socialism = the end of the US and will only cause lower unemployment and higher taxes for the people that actually work .
This will be my last comment I make in any political threads on bluelight because I joined years ago for support from quitting drugs not to talk politics .
I just happened to make a comment out of boredom in a political thread and all I received is hate when for years i have bin trying to help people with there vices and vice versa .

 

[Derschieber]

information you have

My position is entirely moderate. Laughably easy to establish and defend without even trying. It's just funny. I am the moderator here, and you are the intransigent troll.
This is what I meant about you acting out of character. It is not that you can't meet me on common ground, you flatly refuse to do so. I could be wrong but I'm guessing you will argue all day and night rather than admit that Trump is not THAT bad. You probably hoped that he is a russian whatever...and fooled yourself into believing there is a chance something like that has happened lol.
This is what I mean. Your behavior is compulsive. Unreasonable and unrealistic. Trump is a Russian collaborator. No, he's not THAT bad. You see?
Trump is racist. No, he's not that bad...
Trump has started war against truth (or whatever lol) No, he's not that bad...

I dont need any sources other than the pages of slanderous gossip found right here.
Truly, I am sorry to be pointing out this blind spot.
It's not a big deal.
If this is the worst you do, you're doing really well

 

[Xorkoth]

Some people hate on people for stuff. I don't see anyone hating on you in this thread though. But to your point, what I hate about politics so much these days is the resentment and scorn thrown by both sides by many people. I agree that you shouldn't receive hate or scorn or ridicule on here for sharing your political views. If you don't want to post in this forum I can understand, but I'd like you to feel welcome to. And I hope you continue to post in other forums where politics isn't something being discussed.

To the rest of it... you should read the Mueller report... it does not paint a good picture of Trump at all. It makes Watergate look minor in terms of all the corruption. Barr's 2-page summary report was extremely misleading about the conclusion of the report. I'm about halfway through, it's about 400 pages so it's a lot but honestly everyone in America anyway should read it. it's the best source of real information any of us have, because everything else is from the media and you can't know for sure what to believe. That's all I'm gonna say, we're all entitled to our own beliefs.

 

[Derschieber]

It is unhealthy what you are doing here.
Making yourselves unhappy.

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm a happy person. About to go play a show and probably won't think about politics again all weekend. But I am still upset at the situation. And when I discuss the situation, I express how I'm feeling. Honestly the vast majority of discussion in this forum lately hasn't been about Trump or even American politics. It's been nice.

But whatever you need to tell yourself, bud...

 

[Derschieber]

I have to go to sleep now.
Try to find some peace. You'll be ok. We're not going to enslave all the inferior races and genders at this time. So relax ok?
Goodnight.

 

[alasdairm]

what you're doing is no different - you flatly refuse to accept that trump is awful.

you're really no different than those you criticize (ironically similar to president trump).

and no, i really didn't hope he was a russian whatever. the idea of the president as a russian puppet/agent/colluder is awful to me as a u.s. citizen. you're assuming and you're wrong, G.

but i can't look at his words and actions and the mueller report and not reasonably conclude that he's very sympathetic to russian interests, that he's easily manipulated by russia, that he has business interests in russia (and about which he has frequently lied that he has "nothing to do with Russia") which make him susceptible to leverage and more.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

...I do believe he’s done a great job with moving the economy along...

here's a graph of the dj composite average over the past 10 years:

looks like a pretty steady upwards trend, no?

here's a graph of u.s. unemployment since 2010:

does it place trump's effect on u.s. unemployment in a different perspective?

do you think it makes sense to look at the benefits/pros of anything without also considering the costs/cons?

here's a look at the u.s. debt:

the debt has obviously been rising since 1981 but it took 6 years to rise $1T between 1995 and 2001. under president trump it took just 6 months to increase by $1T and the projections are scary.

if this is the cost of "moving the economy along" do you think it's acceptable or responsible?

alasdair

 

[JessFR]

How can it be second hand information about someone when that someone posts their every retarded thought on Twitter?

 

[totach]

I’ve traded stocks since I was 15 years old . That chart is misleading . The market started picking up first off in 2010 when the subprime chaos was starting to cool down .
It was only towards the end of Obama’s term where the market started picking up . Not sure how closely you follow the market but the day trump won the market crashed by over 500 points if I recall correctly .
If your goal here was to prove to me that Obama was a good president and handed over a good economy to trump then I would in return say even if you were correct that doesn’t mean that it’s easy to keep up the pace .
If trump was such a terrible president that all those charts you just posted would have a negative curve . Just like people say trump was born into wealth so since he’s not a self made billionaire he’s not smart or not a real businessman .
I think it’s just as hard if not harder to inherit a fortune and turn it into an empire . I know plenty of people born into wealth and inherited lots of money just to make bad investments and loose it all .
Where do you think unemployment and market numbers would be at if Clinton won? You really think she woulda helped the “poor”?
Venezuela was in the top 5 wealthiest countries in the world till the elected a socialist and look where there at now . Everyone was loosing there minds over 5.7 billion for the wall but yet it’s fone to pay down 1.2T for everyone’s student debt . Why should I be ok with that?
Also dems want people in prison serving life terms including the Boston shit terrosist bomber rights to vote , come on ?
Realistically how much of the prison population do you think will vote conservative ? So in my opinion for the dems/ socialists to stoop so low as to let people in prison vote is just plain ridiculous.
This is a bit off topic but if the dems want trumps tax returns made public so Badly then I want to see every single congress members tax returns including republicans .
I just don’t understand why god knows how much of tax payers money has gone towards trumps witch-hunt which so far has returned nothing .
I did not read thru the Müller report cuz I don’t care . Because if there was a Müller report for every elected president there would be dirt. On every single one . Even sanders wife was under investigation and all of a sudden dropped . Wonder why ?.
Again I really respect everyone on this site I’ve bin around way before I even made this account in 09 and I don’t want to be judged or disliked for my conservative views so I think it’s best I just keep my opinions to myself .
I just wanted to respond to you.
I’ll stick to sober living and the dark side ?

You are correct about our debt under trump rising so fast . I am definitely not impressed by that . I was really hoping that he would turn out debt into a profit( just a joke) but yea I wasn’t expecting him to make out debt rise so quick in such a short time .
I would really like him to answer to what he’s gonna do about that when he runs again in 2020 . Or if he can answer that sooner I would appreciate that. I can’t disagree with you there .

 

[alasdairm]

you didn't really answer any of my questions but that's ok. i am interested in an answer to the last one but i'll not hold my breath.

where would market numbers be if clinton had been elected? i don't know but i think both the economic and unemployment trends would have continued but the gains would likely have been smaller. which, to me, is ok because, as i implied, it's crazy to look at benefits without looking at associated costs...

you think the mueller report returned nothing? if you don't care, why even bring it up?

34 people and 3 (russian) business entities were indicted.

the mueller enquiry cost about $25 million overall. you're concerned about cost obviously. after about 9 months in office, the trumps had spent about $145M on personal travel - nearly 6 mueller reports...

not sure what the boston bomber comment is about. i am a registered democrat. i don't think felons should have the right to vote while incarcerated. you should try to generalise less?

alasdair

 

[totach]

I didn’t say the Müller report returned nothing . I said that if there was a Müller type investigation on all previous presidents that there would be dirt on all of them .
Again I am not saying trump is a saint and I’m about your last ? I said I agreed with you . I was expecting trump to lower our deficit instead of hyperinflating it. I would also like answers to that .

 

[JessFR]

I don't see how anyone can read the mueller report and come off thinking trump isn't corrupt.

Even if we just outright say there was never any conspiracy/collusion, trump trying to obstruct the investigation is totally corrupt, and the report documents many many instances of corrupt obstruction.

At this point I feel like I can't take seriously anyone who thinks trump isn't corrupt because the evidence is just overwhelming. As for "all politicians are corrupt", the frequent counter argument to that. That's another reason I don't have high regard for a lot of people I've seen defending trump. Because their argument isn't consistent. They jump between excusing trumps actions, denying his actions, and saying clintons actions would have been worse, so you can't pin them down on one consistent motive for their support of trump. If someone just refused to vote Clinton, they wouldn't feel the need to defend trump. If they voted trump because they legit supported him,then they can't use the argument that Clinton would have been worse to ignore and distract from the problems with trump. And you don't support trump because you reject the truthfulness of all information negative to him but believe anything positive. People do that because they support him for some other reason. Otherwise it would be entirely circular.

In other words, Ive yet to meet a trump supporter who's engaged in what I'd call intellectually honest debate. And that's why I tend to have so little regard for trump supporters.

 

[totach]

25M is a drop in the bucket . Instead of Congress actually doing there job and pass legislation that’s supposed to help there district it seems like all dems current job is to figure out ways to impeach trump . I was not happy when Obama won presidency but I accepted it and dealt with it as did most conservatives .
All the conspiracy theories that were going around saying he wasn’t born in the us , that he’s a Muslim etc.. you didn’t see the conservatives running trying to impeach him . The Iran deal? Come on . And releasing Chelsea Manning which was convicted of treason how does that happen?
I don’t actually want a response cuz I joined BL for support with my addiction issues and I want it to stay that way . I regret saying anything to begin with .
I fully understand your views and can forsure see and understand why so many people hate trump . Next time I feel like discussing politics I will go on reddit or something . I just didn’t wanna respond and leave the thread hanging . So my apologies I respect your views and opinions and I’ll catch you in the dark side or sober living .

 

[JessFR]

I didn’t say the Müller report returned nothing . I said that if there was a Müller type investigation on all previous presidents that there would be dirt on all of them .

That's might be true but it's no reason to defend trump. There is no requirement to support and defend what you see as the least bad choice.

All the conspiracy theories that were going around saying he wasn’t born in the us , that he’s a Muslim etc.. you didn’t see the conservatives running trying to impeach him .

Uh.. What..
Thats not what I remember..

 

[totach]

In other words, Ive yet to meet a trump supporter who's engaged in what I'd call intellectually honest debate. And that's why I tend to have so little regard for trump supporters.
[/QUOTE]

That’s just funny to read . So your saying all conservatives that voted for trump are not intellectual which includes many successful businessman/woman and many people with high iq’s . Not sure what you meant by that. Just cuz I’m the only one here that says I’m a trump supporter but due to my dylexia and other reasons I’m not the biggest fan of writing a lot cuz I guess where the punctuation goes .
In person i would gladly debate on why I support trump down to the policies I agree with and the ones I don’t .
I’m not one of those people that support trump and when you ask why they have no idea . Just like that idiot Cortez she doesn’t know left from right . Again I’m going off topic but I just wanted to use her as a comparison .

 

[JessFR]

That’s just funny to read . So your saying all conservatives that voted for trump are not intellectual which includes many successful businessman/woman and many people with high iq’s . Not sure what you meant by that. Just cuz I’m the only one here that says I’m a trump supporter but due to my dylexia and other reasons I’m not the biggest fan of writing a lot cuz I guess where the punctuation goes .
In person i would gladly debate on why I support trump down to the policies I agree with and the ones I don’t .
I’m not one of those people that support trump and when you ask why they have no idea . Just like that idiot Cortez she doesn’t know left from right . Again I’m going off topic but I just wanted to use her as a comparison .

No, I meant what I said, and only what I said. Which is that I've never seen a trump supporter engage in what I perceived to be entirely honest intellectual debate about trump.

I'm sure there must be some trump supporters who do, but I've yet to see it.

Honestly, I suspect most trump supporters aren't entirely honest with themselves about why they support him. They probably believe everything they say, not entirely aware that they're lying to themselves about the real underlying motive for their support.

What is the real underlying motive? I suspect there isn't a single one shared by all trump supporters. But I would suspect it's comprised of general dissatisfaction with the existing establishment. Disapproval and hostility towards certain minority groups, like Muslims. Hatred of the left. Among others. Broad generalized things rather than anything trump has ever specifically said or done.

Which is why what he says and does plays so little part in their support.

I'm sorry you feel judged, I really honestly am. And I don't mean that in a “I'm sorry you wrongly think you're being judged" kinda way. I don't think I can really honestly say you're wrong for feeling that. A lot of people here do negatively judge trump supporters. And I'm probably one of them.

And I'm legitimately sorry for that. I for one don't want you to feel unwelcome here. But you gotta understand that a lot of trump supporters here and in the lives of a lot of people here in the past have done a lot to cause a lot of inherent hostility.

That's not fair to you, I understand that, but it is what it is and I'm not entirely sure how that can be fixed.

For what it's worth, I hold no ill will towards you personally over your beliefs. And I do wish things weren't like this. And I'm sorry this situation has made you feel like this, and I don't think that's your fault.

 

[totach]

I was assuming you meant that when you said you personally never had one . I’ve personally had many especially when I was in LA last summer . I thought ny where I live is bad but in LA I couldn’t even find 1 trump supporter .
I like to stay in hostels when I travel somewhere I don’t have friends or family so I stayed in LA for two months there and had debates from people all over the world . Some intellectual some not . And majority of them wound up understanding my perspective and vice versa . We had a lot of times on our hands and really had great debates .
It was even more cool considering I was debating with period from Germany , Ireland etc.. I was surprised how interested they were in Trump and how much they knew about out politics . That’s how controversial Trump is but hey so was Churchill and I believe he left a great legacy as hopefully trump will( in my book he’s allready a legend for being such a great ally to Israel but that’s obviously just me cuz I’m an American Israeli)
In Person it’s much easier to see each other’s point of views . Online I find it very hard cuz what takes me 10 min to type I can speak in a minute .
I appreciate you not holding anything against me which is why I keep saying I should stay out of this topic . It started with an innocent response i made to a political thread here and spiraled a bit out of control . I should have assumed that so my apologies .
I didn’t come here to rub dems in the faces that I’m a trump supporter . I believe my first question was is do you believe there’s a connection between addicts and leaning left .

Thank for the debate I’m officially done . See you guys in the forums I’m usually in aka dark side and the replacement for sober living ?

 

[swilow]

It is unhealthy what you are doing here.
Making yourselves unhappy.

It's just a discussion, what's wrong with that? It seems like you want this discussion to be one that you agree with a bit more- like you want an echo chamber even.

Anyway, let's discuss Trump and not the people in this thread. Thanks.