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Dead pig brains bathed in artificial fluid showed signs of cellular life

swilow

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I think this makes a zombie apocalypse that much more plausible ;)

Dead pig brains bathed in artificial fluid showed signs of cellular life
Nerve cell activity was detected hours after death
BY
LAURA SANDERS
1:15PM, APRIL 17, 2019
pig brain cells

DEAD OR ALIVE Ten hours after death, cells in a pig brain normally deteriorate (left). But a new system called BrainEx kept nerve cells (green) and support cells called astrocytes (red) healthy (right).
STEFANO G. DANIELE, ZVONIMIR VRSELJA/SESTAN LAB/YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Scientists have restored cellular activity to pig brains hours after the animals’ death — an unprecedented feat. This revival, achieved with a sophisticated system of artificial fluid, took place four hours after the pigs’ demise at a slaughterhouse.

“This is a huge breakthrough,” says ethicist and legal scholar Nita Farahany of Duke University, who wasn’t involved in the research. “It fundamentally challenges existing beliefs in neuroscience. The idea of the irreversibility of loss of brain function clearly isn’t true.”

The results, reported April 17 in Nature, may lead to better treatments for brain damage caused by stroke or other injuries that starve brain tissue of oxygen. The achievement also raises significant ethical puzzles about research on brains that are not alive, but not completely dead either.

In the study, the brains showed no signs of the widespread neural activity thought to be required for consciousness. But individual nerve cells were still firing. “There’s this gray zone between dead animals and living animals,” says Farahany, who coauthored a perspective piece in Nature.

The experiments were conducted on pigs that had been killed in a food processing plant. These animals were destined to become pork. “No animals died for this study,” the authors of the new work write in their paper.
After decapitation, about 300 pig heads were put on ice and transported to a Yale University laboratory, where researchers surgically removed the brains. Four hours post mortem, researchers put 32 of these brains in an artificial system known as BrainEx — a chamber with specially designed blood replacement fluid that pumps through the blood vessels, delivering oxygen, sugar and other sustaining ingredients at body temperature to keep the brains operating.

During six hours in the BrainEx system, these dead brains showed signs of activity. Oxygen and sugar went into the brain tissue, and carbon dioxide came out, analyses of the fluid showed. That suggested the brains were still busy metabolically. Some of the nerve cells in the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, key brain areas for complex thinking, appeared healthy under a microscope. And nerve cells could still fire off signals, studies on individual cells in brain slices showed. In contrast, brains that weren’t in the BrainExsystem deteriorated.

The results suggest that brains, perhaps even human ones, are much more resilient than once thought. “That’s the punchline,” says study coauthor Nenad Sestan, a neuroscientist at Yale. The technique offers a new way to study animal brains in labs, experiments that might yield insights into countering human brain damage caused by strokes or other injuries, he says.

The study is also notable for what it did not observe — coordinated widespread brain activity that could be detected by electrodes on the brains’ surfaces. That sort of activity can indicate some level of awareness. If the scientists had observed such signals, the experiment would have been stopped immediately, says study coauthor Stephen Latham, a bioethicist at Yale. “If it does happen, we’re going to have to regroup because it would pose this unique problem of creating some kind of experience or awareness in an organ that’s completely isolated from any living being,” he says.

In the BrainEx system, the fluid was designed to contain a compound that blocks neural activity; researchers suspected that too much nerve cell action would be harmful to the brains. The scientists don’t know whether removing that blocking compound would have allowed more complex patterns of brain activity, or whether such signals would eventually emerge after more time in the fluid.

The research isn’t close to being ready to be used on human brains, scientists say. Still, the method raises the possibility that similar approaches could one day restore some function to human brain tissue.

Rules for experiments involving living people are strict, bioethicist Christine Grady of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md., said in an April 16 news briefing.
“Once a human dies and their tissue is in a laboratory, there are many fewer restrictions on what can be done,” Grady said. New abilities to preserve dead tissue will spur people to think about “whether or not there need to be new rules about how we deal with those tissues,” whether they come from a pig or a person.

-source
 
My friend told me that he learned that human brains show increasingly fainter continued neural activity after death for like 24-36 hours or something. He postulates that it's the afterlife, that we experience whatever eternity we expect to when we die (if our brains aren't demolished). I don't know if it's true but this reminded of it.
 
My friend told me that he learned that human brains show increasingly fainter continued neural activity after death for like 24-36 hours or something. He postulates that it's the afterlife, that we experience whatever eternity we expect to when we die (if our brains aren't demolished). I don't know if it's true but this reminded of it.
It likely is, though I would heavily prefer to go out without an afterlife experience.

Very phenomenal news for brain recovery potential, though. Very exciting research.
 
My friend told me that he learned that human brains show increasingly fainter continued neural activity after death for like 24-36 hours or something. He postulates that it's the afterlife, that we experience whatever eternity we expect to when we die (if our brains aren't demolished). I don't know if it's true but this reminded of it.

Doubtful. The brain is almost certainly not capable of providing the kind of experiences we think of as the afterlife in that time frame and impaired state.

Buuuut, it might well shed light on people's experiences of heading towards a light or briefer periods of time in some kind of afterlife.

The brains an amazing thing though, no doubt about that. It'll keep surprising us for a long time to come since we still know so little about how it works.
 
This is surely good news for cryonics. That said, obviously "signs of cellular activity" doesn't necessarily translate to the preservation of whatever complex neuronal structures give rise to what we would recognise as an intact human personality - or pig personality in this case... But, is surely progress either way so good to see.
 
It's quite simple really.. Germs are the start of life and that's all our body .mostly is terms microbes, cells protein s you think I all these just stop living and working when you die? No of course not
 
Doubtful. The brain is almost certainly not capable of providing the kind of experiences we think of as the afterlife in that time frame and impaired state.

Buuuut, it might well shed light on people's experiences of heading towards a light or briefer periods of time in some kind of afterlife.

The brains an amazing thing though, no doubt about that. It'll keep surprising us for a long time to come since we still know so little about how it works.
"Time frame" is irrelevant when you can compress what seems like lifetimes into 8 to 12 hours. Or a miniature eternity into 5-15 minutes. *shrugs* Time dilation is real.

I don't even want an afterlife. Looking forward to the last black out here. I just believe I would have to go out of my way to numb my perception of mental activities or to physically destroy brain at the end of life, neither of which seem particularly enjoyable or worthwhile pursuits in one's living life.
 
"Time frame" is irrelevant when you can compress what seems like lifetimes into 8 to 12 hours. Or a miniature eternity into 5-15 minutes. *shrugs* Time dilation is real.

I don't even want an afterlife. Looking forward to the last black out here. I just believe I would have to go out of my way to numb my perception of mental activities or to physically destroy brain at the end of life, neither of which seem particularly enjoyable or worthwhile pursuits in one's living life.

Time dilation in the physics and mental sense of the word is real yes. But as far as the brain goes, there are limits. Even if you could subjectively percieve 10 years in 10 hours, it'd just be a trick of perception. You still almost certainly can't do 10 years worth of actual cognition in 10 hours like you would in 10 real years.

The brain may be amazing, but it still has its limits. It can't just arbitrarally increase its processing speed to infinity.

For what it's worth though, I'm with you. I don't want an afterlife either. I can't think of much worse than being alive for eternity. I'm not convinced I'd wanna be alive even 100 years let alone forever.
 
Of course. And some people do literally nothing in ten years of their lives. The difference would not be immediately noticeable to someone in this state.

Perhaps only hardened psychedelic users will be fully conscious of the illusion and know they have died.
 
Doubtful. The brain is almost certainly not capable of providing the kind of experiences we think of as the afterlife in that time frame and impaired state.

Buuuut, it might well shed light on people's experiences of heading towards a light or briefer periods of time in some kind of afterlife.

The brains an amazing thing though, no doubt about that. It'll keep surprising us for a long time to come since we still know so little about how it works.

Well yeah that's what I mean, people DO experience things after they're clinically dead, some people have been dead for up to hours and brought back and regained consciousness (I believe I read one such case about someone who was basically frozen in water so their brains didn't degrade as quickly and they were able to be revived). The speed of thought is quick like the movement of electricity. Very long stretches of time can seem to occur in very brief periods during dreams, for example. Or during peak psychedelic experiences. I don't think we know enough to be able to say "almost certainly". But I don't know enough to say one way or the other, either. I do think it's an interesting idea, that also explains the afterlife experiences people seem to have who are brought back to be able to tell it. And why those experiences can tend to align with their own personal beliefs (ie, I believe I'm going to heaven: I experience heaven [there is an interesting book I read that is a personal account of such an experience, I forget what it's called]; or, I believe I am a sinner and I believe in Hell, so I experience Hell [I also read an account like this once]). I'd like to find some account of entirely different sorts of experiences other than just heaven and hell. I find personal accounts of death experiences extremely fascinating.
 
Who wants the monotony of ten years of life anyways? All the times you open a door, close a door, turn the stove on, turn it off, find your keys, check your cell phone, use your drugs, that's the boring part of life. The best parts are going to be enjoyed in a psychedelic experience and not that monotonous boring analog bullshit. Shadow knows what I'm talking about, or no one does.

Tripping > Sober life for sure.

All the tears. Weight gain, weight loss. Break ups. Job losses. Promotions, "the first day at a new job". The boss yelling at you. The customers yelling at you. Prepare for soul evacuation... Nope, give me liberty (caps) or give me death!
 
Well my guess would be that the afterlife experience, if there is one, bears little resemblance to regular life. People who die and come back don't report waking up, putting their shoes on, opening doors, going to work, and so on. :)

A guess of mine is that it might resemble a very deep dissociative experience, a la ketamine. Ketamine antagonizes NMDA which is an inhibitory receptor set, and it shuts down the amygdala which is responsible for basically a lot of conscious perception (and movement and perception of pain). It reduces your neural activity dramatically, yet you're still perceiving something, having an experience. But it is radically different from waking consciousness, very much stripped down. Yet it can be incredibly profound and insightful.
 
Nope it's going to be a lot like a psychedelic trip or regular life, nothing special. Or you'll have no sensation and just cessation of perception. Just my 2c.

This quickly went from CEP to PS material, huh? Perhaps I was the culprit. :ROFLMAO:
 
Guess some of you aren't fans of the idea of getting yourselves cryopreserved eh? ;)

Without meaning to piss on anyone's misery bonfire... the idea of living a very long time, maybe not forever, but definitely a couple of thousand years or so, sounds great to me, and if I actually manage to take the time to arrange it, and can afford it, before I die a traumatic and unexpected death, I fully intend to get my corpse, or perhaps just my decapitated head, frozen in a vat of liquid nitrogen with the hope of being resurrected in some far future utopia. :)

My life isn't all that great either, it could be worse for sure, but I do also find sober life boring a lot of the time. If there's one thing psychedelics have given me though it's an appreciation for the near infinite depth of experience that existence as a living, sentient entity has to offer... and even if it sometimes seems boring now, I don't expect it to be so forever. I have no idea what will happen to my consciousness when the body I currently inhabit dies, there's no way anyone can know, but I do have some idea what life is like so far, and it's a trip with or without psychedelics.

Obviously if I was resurrected into a dystopian torture factory to live for millenia in a cold, damp, box where I couldn't even stand up I'd probably quickly start to feel differently, but I hope that in the amount of possible futures and countless possible future lives, the proportion of ones where humans or perhaps some other sentient entities figure out how to tweak their base neuronal hardwiring and live millenia in constant, functional, motivated, psychedelic euphoria, is eventually enough to outweigh all the suffering.
 
There isn't much about my death I'd like less than the idea of being cryopreserved.

When I'm dead I wanna be gone. Like I never existed to start with. I've heard people say that their worst fear is to be forgotten after they die. I fear being remembered.

So yea, fuck cryo. My preference for what to do with my remains are on the other temperature extreme.
 
Guess some of you aren't fans of the idea of getting yourselves cryopreserved eh? ;)

Without meaning to piss on anyone's misery bonfire... the idea of living a very long time, maybe not forever, but definitely a couple of thousand years or so, sounds great to me, and if I actually manage to take the time to arrange it, and can afford it, before I die a traumatic and unexpected death, I fully intend to get my corpse, or perhaps just my decapitated head, frozen in a vat of liquid nitrogen with the hope of being resurrected in some far future utopia. :)

My life isn't all that great either, it could be worse for sure, but I do also find sober life boring a lot of the time. If there's one thing psychedelics have given me though it's an appreciation for the near infinite depth of experience that existence as a living, sentient entity has to offer... and even if it sometimes seems boring now, I don't expect it to be so forever. I have no idea what will happen to my consciousness when the body I currently inhabit dies, there's no way anyone can know, but I do have some idea what life is like so far, and it's a trip with or without psychedelics.

Obviously if I was resurrected into a dystopian torture factory to live for millenia in a cold, damp, box where I couldn't even stand up I'd probably quickly start to feel differently, but I hope that in the amount of possible futures and countless possible future lives, the proportion of ones where humans or perhaps some other sentient entities figure out how to tweak their base neuronal hardwiring and live millenia in constant, functional, motivated, psychedelic euphoria, is eventually enough to outweigh all the suffering.

Sorry but am going to deviate from the thread a little, as your post struck a chord.

Ok, are you kidding me lol Neuronal "hard" wiring is FAR from boring!! Reality is FAR from boring - people (we) construct arbitrary boring shit because we become obsessed by conforming to NOT being curious and dogmatically believe that societally constructed conformity is the one true perspective. Without your so called 'wiring' you would not be able to even form a thought about this and you aren't even aware of that . Your body can fart, vomit, orgasm, destroy and nurture a kazillion bacteria within it, amongst other mind-blowing phenomena that occurs; which we can only fathom mechanistically because we assume that we understand everything using a mechanistic model (which is false). You can consciously command your muscles to defy the forces of gravity at will, you can kill someone/thing/yourself or, make a sandwich - simply based on a thought & your will to do so - these systems of sustanance are dedicated to your existence and they are finite. These systems in your body are colluding at this very second - independent of your conscious control and yet your mind can lament whatever it perceives as boring, or idealised whatever it believes as entertainment - while millions of intricately complex organic, systems are generating existence for you to criticise them, at present, just dedicated to your very existence and awareness - what's boring is that we take so much for granted because we choose to be spoiled idiots who don't practice appreciating what we have but feed off of illusory propoganda and what justifies a smug sense of control. We get lost in the socio-political game and our own misperception that we know everything, when in fact, we are just severing ties to pursuing exploration of thinking outside of what has been so limiting & boringly, constructed by nothing other than our own naive belief that we must focus on the nature of our constructed bullshit, at the expense of focusing on anything else. Then we find something to blame; then something to idealize so we can justify, our lazyness and cowardice, not to renew ourselves and perpetuate the same cycle over & over and grow dim, stagnant and stupid.
 
No human is supposed to live forever. We're supposed to be mortal. We're supposed to die. I would never try to fight the natural outcome of biological life. Life extension science is useful and what not but I don't think it behooves most individuals to push it much past 80 to 90, while a lot will die much earlier. *shrugs* I think doing what you want on life in the here and now is what's important. If you didn't get to do that in many, many decades, you're never going to and it's just stupid giving yourself just a little more time to live the same way you have been for god knows how long. Just an opinion, food for thought.
 
Sorry but am going to deviate from the thread a little, as your post struck a chord.

Ok, are you kidding me lol Neuronal "hard" wiring is FAR from boring!! Reality is FAR from boring - people (we) construct arbitrary boring shit because we become obsessed by conforming to NOT being curious and dogmatically believe that societally constructed conformity is the one true perspective. Without your so called 'wiring' you would not be able to even form a thought about this and you aren't even aware of that . Your body can fart, vomit, orgasm, destroy and nurture a kazillion bacteria within it, amongst other mind-blowing phenomena that occurs; which we can only fathom mechanistically because we assume that we understand everything using a mechanistic model (which is false). You can consciously command your muscles to defy the forces of gravity at will, you can kill someone/thing/yourself or, make a sandwich - simply based on a thought & your will to do so - these systems of sustanance are dedicated to your existence and they are finite. These systems in your body are colluding at this very second - independent of your conscious control and yet your mind can lament whatever it perceives as boring, or idealised whatever it believes as entertainment - while millions of intricately complex organic, systems are generating existence for you to criticise them, at present, just dedicated to your very existence and awareness - what's boring is that we take so much for granted because we choose to be spoiled idiots who don't practice appreciating what we have but feed off of illusory propoganda and what justifies a smug sense of control. We get lost in the socio-political game and our own misperception that we know everything, when in fact, we are just severing ties to pursuing exploration of thinking outside of what has been so limiting & boringly, constructed by nothing other than our own naive belief that we must focus on the nature of our constructed bullshit, at the expense of focusing on anything else. Then we find something to blame; then something to idealize so we can justify, our lazyness and cowardice, not to renew ourselves and perpetuate the same cycle over & over and grow dim, stagnant and stupid.
Asclepius - I do not disagree with you in the slightest. Reality, existence, and being alive, is an endlessly fascinating, incredible journey, and really on consideration there is very little to be bored about, which was the main point I wanted to make really. :)

That said, what I wanted to make clear also was that I do understand the human tendency towards boredom - and I think this is partially a result of our neuronal hardwiring, or more specifically the "hedonic treadmill" that evolved to make us constantly seek novelty and new experiences in an effort to spread our genetic code, which is a deep and fundamental programming within us largely below the level of conscious awareness, even a deeper level than anything requiring a mind at all as it has existed since the first self replicating molecules boiled their way out of the primordial soup billions of years ago. I don't think it detracts in any way from the incredible nature of the wiring we already have to say that it can, probably, be improved upon. Undeniably, a sizable chunk of humanity do find themselves just bored with being alive (some of the views expressed in this thread, a case in point ;)) and this boredom really occurs across the spectrum of how objectively "interesting" any given persons life experience is.

On that basis, we can fairly say, I think, that some of our evolved psychological tendencies are no longer optimal, and could quite conceivably be improved. There are already various ways to do this of course, proponents of any sustained meditative practice, for example, would generally say that this is a workable route off the hedonic treadmill of cyclic joy and suffering, but evidently our understanding of how to ensure as many people as possible can enjoy the benefits of an improved outlook on life is still very much in it's infancy (again, as evidenced by the high incidence of depression and other psychological disorders even in those with objectively quite comfortable lives).


No human is supposed to live forever. We're supposed to be mortal. We're supposed to die. I would never try to fight the natural outcome of biological life. Life extension science is useful and what not but I don't think it behooves most individuals to push it much past 80 to 90, while a lot will die much earlier. *shrugs* I think doing what you want on life in the here and now is what's important. If you didn't get to do that in many, many decades, you're never going to and it's just stupid giving yourself just a little more time to live the same way you have been for god knows how long. Just an opinion, food for thought.
I really don't think it makes much sense to talk about what humans are "supposed" to do, in this sense. Life extension really is just the continuation of modern medical science, and biological immortality is just a potential long-term endpoint of successes in pursuit of this goal (continued improvements in medicine).

Are humans supposed to recover from a broken leg without a serious possibility of life-threatening infection? Are we supposed to have induced immunities to smallpox, tetanus, and a whole host of archaic, life threatening diseases?

By extension - are humans born deaf, blind or without the use of their legs supposed to benefit from pioneering medical techniques to restore their hearing or their sight? Perhaps we should all just accept our god-given lot in life, and not bother trying to improve things for the better.

You say you would never try to fight the natural outcome of biological life, but I just don't think this is true at all. I'm sure you've benefited from a whole range of things that modern medicine has to offer, as has everyone alive in the developed world today, whether knowingly or not. Equally, I think it's likely that if you learned you were going to suffer a slow and painful demise from a degenerative disease, if there was a modern medical treatment available to prevent this from happening and extend your life, you would probably accept it - or even if you wouldn't, many other people would, and I think it would be especially cruel to say that why bother, "we're just supposed to be mortal".

The fact is, anyone could choose right now if they wanted to to give up all the advantages that modern medical science has to offer in terms of length of life, refuse medical treatment for something easily treatable today (like a broken leg, for example), and have a much higher likelihood of dying young. Most people choose not to do this however, I would venture to say yourself included. Equally, if in 100 years or so there is a routine treatment which doubles or triples the human lifespan and massively increases our resistance to all disease, administered by a single injection of some gene-tweaking virus in an outpatient procedure, unless almost everyone inexplicably rejects the idea it will quite likely, eventually, become something that everyone does and is considered the norm... Although even then, there will probably be people talking about how "humans are only supposed to live so long", and death is just "natural" even while they reap the benefits of longer, healthier lives... :sneaky:
 
Human beings grow weaker with age. We experience cognitive decline mildly throughout adult life, and it accelerates towards the end. I do not see the point of elongating the end of life unnecessarily. Many of the objectives you speak of...

Are humans supposed to recover from a broken leg without a serious possibility of life-threatening infection? Are we supposed to have induced immunities to smallpox, tetanus, and a whole host of archaic, life threatening diseases?

By extension - are humans born deaf, blind or without the use of their legs supposed to benefit from pioneering medical techniques to restore their hearing or their sight?

Would be considered life preservation, not extension. The term "life extension" as I understand it involves elongating the duration the human has on the face of the earth, or the "productive days" they have. We already all live incredibly long lives in the modern era. I don't see a need to make 100 the new 90. If you saw what people in this age bracket face in terms of physical challenges and/or mental decline, you'd have a newfound respect for enjoying the lifespan we were meant to enjoy. Again just my opinions guys.
 
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