Dead pig brains bathed in artificial fluid showed signs of cellular life

[Xorkoth]

I have always wondered what would happen were one to be cryogenically frozen, in terms of consciousness. Would it be like a blink until you were brought back (if you were brought back)? If you weren't brought back, would your entire existence just end in a blink? If there is something beyond physical life, would that progression be held hostage until your body physically died? And if it wasn't, what would happen when you were revived? Would you be pulled out of wherever you were and forced back into life? It would kinda make reincarnation's reality dependent on whether you were held in stasis or actually died and moved on when being frozen.

Questions like these only reinforce my belief that consciousness is a property of the universe and that we are all the universe experiencing itself subjectively, all life is, simultaneously (not being bound to any particular instance of time). So on or off for any particular organism does not begin or end consciousness, rather, consciousness is always happening but each organism locks it into a subjective frame. I don't believe in reincarnation, I believe we are all the same thing, always. We are multi-incarnated into one infinite moment.

Some people actually DO know what it's like (or what it isn't like), that's the crazy thing. Some people have been and currently are cryogenically frozen.

Human beings grow weaker with age. We experience cognitive decline mildly throughout adult life, and it accelerates towards the end. I do not see the point of elongating the end of life unnecessarily. Many of the objectives you speak of...

What if this were not the case though? We only age because our cells' mitochrondria can only regenerate themselves so many times. What if we could prolong that, even inevitably? What if we could live healthy adult lives in our prime until we chose not to? I mean I wouldn't want to be immortal, I'd get tired of it. But it may be possible to prolong it inevitably one day, or at least prolong it greatly, and it wouldn't be that we were living for 100 years as decrepit old people, but that our healthy, younger years would be extended. It may be possible one day to download our consciousness into artificial bodies, for all we know. Maybe one day, 100 will be the new 40, just like 40 is the new 30 now (I mean hell there are people who are 60 who look 40 these days, it's crazy).

 

[Vastness]

Would be considered life preservation, not extension. The term "life extension" as I understand it involves elongating the duration the human has on the face of the earth, or the "productive days" they have. We already all live incredibly long lives in the modern era. I don't see a need to make 100 the new 90. If you saw what people in this age bracket face in terms of physical challenges and/or mental decline, you'd have a newfound respect for enjoying the lifespan we were meant to enjoy. Again just my opinions guys.

Yeah, I think maybe we are thinking of quite different things for what "life extension" is then. My own understanding is that "true" life extension is, as you say, extending the duration of productive days, ie, days in which we are biologically relatively young and in good health... so essentially slowing down the aging process. I don't think anyone would desire to keep aging indefinitely at the same rate, becoming increasingly decrepit, physically and mentally incapable and essentially useless in the end. Death may indeed be a kinder end than that. I would still argue however that any distinction between "life preservation" and "life extension" is really fairly arbitrary, arguably we have already begun the process of extending life in baby steps just by our increased understanding of what kind of habits cause our body and minds to decay at a faster rate, and we've just begun to see the beginning of more fine tools in the form of drugs that slow certain biological processes that age us, although none of them are miracle substances yet.

I have always wondered what would happen were one to be cryogenically frozen, in terms of consciousness. Would it be like a blink until you were brought back (if you were brought back)? If you weren't brought back, would your entire existence just end in a blink? If there is something beyond physical life, would that progression be held hostage until your body physically died? And if it wasn't, what would happen when you were revived? Would you be pulled out of wherever you were and forced back into life? It would kinda make reincarnation's reality dependent on whether you were held in stasis or actually died and moved on when being frozen. ... It may be possible one day to download our consciousness into artificial bodies, for all we know. Maybe one day, 100 will be the new 40, just like 40 is the new 30 now (I mean hell there are people who are 60 who look 40 these days, it's crazy).

Yeah I think these are very interesting questions also. I would say the likelihood is that if you were brought back, it would be like a blink.

If I were to postulate about alternative scenarios for the continuation of conscious experience, after or in spite of the complete, irreversible destruction of whatever substrate houses it... I would say that if consciousness is considered to be an emergent property of the distinct nature of certain patterns of a sufficient level of complexity, and if we assume an infinite or near infinite multiverse in which the likelihood of this pattern recurring somewhere, sometime, someplace else is not zero (in an infinite multiverse I would argue it is a near certainty, but it is not a certainty that the multiverse is infinite, or even "exists" beyond the universe we find ourselves within)... then on that basis the subjective arrow of time may not be objectively chronological, at least relative to our experience of time within the universe we know. Indeed, the arrow of time may point in a difference direction entirely, or the entire concept of time may not have any meaning... really, I think presuming to be able to surmise anything about any possible form of conscious experience, if indeed there is any, that might occur beyond this plane of reality that we currently seem to inhabit is probably a futile effort... if there is any truth at all in the idea that conscious experience continues after death, then that truth is likely to be utterly incomprehensible and inaccessible to any currently living being.

I do find this kind of stuff fun to think about though, and all that said, I think it's conceivable we'll get some kind of a deeper glimpse into the nature of consciousness if the mind uploading/downloading scenario you mentioned ever becomes possible. I always wonder about the classic example... if you cloned yourself and copied your consciousness into that clone, assuming that you stayed awake the whole time, and your own conscious experience was not interrupted, presumably the other "you" would have the bizarre experience of suddenly finding themselves in the body of the clone, previously having fully expected to continue "experiencing" existence as the original. But, if this kind of thing ever does become more than a thought experiment, if people are able to effectively copy themselves, back themselves up, and be restored in the event of an unexpected traumatic death, then I think it's likely that our whole conception of consciousness, and our current ideas surrounding the importance of there being some kind of continuity, and, inevitably our feelings about death and the nature of life will be completely transformed.

 

[Asclepius]

Asclepius - I do not disagree with you in the slightest. Reality, existence, and being alive, is an endlessly fascinating, incredible journey, and really on consideration there is very little to be bored about, which was the main point I wanted to make really.

It's fascinating, confusing, painful and elating (and everything in-between - and not in any particular order!

That said, what I wanted to make clear also was that I do understand the human tendency towards boredom - and I think this is partially and new experiences in an effort to spread our genetic code, which is a deep and fundamental programming within us largely below the level of conscious awareness, even a deeper level than anything requiring a mind at all as it has existed since the first self-replicating molecules boiled their way out of the primordial soup billions of years ago. I don't think it detracts in any way from the incredible nature of the wiring we already have to say that it can, probably, be improved upon. Undeniably, a sizable chunk of humanity do find themselves just bored with being alive (some of the views expressed in this thread, a case in point ) and this boredom really occurs across the spectrum of how objectively "interesting" any given persons life experience is.

I also, struggle with boredom - as does every human on the planet - its a state. A state that is often uncatered to by environments that are created toward fiscal measures, rather than human ones; to explore is an innate drive and to be thwarted by a physical; familial/social, physical or, cultural environment(s) is an evident aspect of our struggle as contemporary humans - as testified by BL'ers who are the experimental result of this shitty environment - where we seek a place to express ourselves. Where I disagree with you is the fact that the solution to boredom, or, as you state, "a result of our neuronal hardwiring, or more specifically the "hedonic treadmill" that evolved to make us constantly seek novelty" - our solution to constantly seek novelty is not to do with hedonism (some, maybe - we are a heterogeneous species but with the same nervous system so, with that as a homologous base); it is the 'seeking system' ( like this also, related to other animals - as we are often treated as such by our draconian social structures) indeed a chronic state of neglect of this system leads to a state of hedonistic over-compensation, which still requires returning to the baseline of the need. So, dealing with the "hedonistic treadmill" ( good band name by the way! ) requires not ignoring it, but returning to where the system became so neglected (through use, or otherwise), that it can be targeted to build upon if you get me? In dealing with problems you have to deconstruct to deal with each component - lest we lapse into an untrue judgment, based on superficial behavior, in place of the truth of the very human need and the neglect or, abuse of that, that gave rise to it.

 

[Asclepius]

in the pioneer days it was very normal to go at 35 or 40, f that long.

and that didn't sound too great either.

a meteor could definitely take us out, and maybe
the weed also ☹

Hey, If I live to ripe old age, i plan on going 100% anti-social - I would think its the best stage to do it!

 

[Asclepius]

Human beings grow weaker with age. We experience cognitive decline mildly throughout adult life, and it accelerates towards the end. I do not see the point of elongating the end of life unnecessarily. Many of the objectives you speak of...

Obviously true. So many innovations in science have/are not being applied to the real-life situations of humans (Internet propaganda is a hell of a drug ?). This is the reality - we are being spoonfed such progressive propaganda and yet, it isn't realized. Quality of life is a much more of a ((an)essentially) significant factor than actual life-span. This is the daft repertoire of purveyors of non/limited-experience of real, existence.

 

[tathra]

Very long stretches of time can seem to occur in very brief periods during dreams, for example

dreams happen in real time, just fyi. they only seem fast because they generally aren't coding memories, and all your senses are shut off so theres no frame of reference to hold against the hallucinations your brain is showing you in place of external sensory input

Ok, are you kidding me lol Neuronal "hard" wiring is FAR from boring!! Reality is FAR from boring

agreed. how some molecules binding to a protein and triggering a cascade of successive releases upon crossing a threshold can result in consciousness and willful control over one's surroundings is fascinating, along with how different saturations of different molecules can change our experience, how we think and behave, and how we perceive and interpret the world around us. behavioral/structural neuroscience is good stuff with lots of possibilities

 

[Asclepius]

all your senses are shut off so theres no frame of reference to hold against the hallucinations your brain is showing you in place of external sensory input

So despite the lack of sensory input; there is sensory input. Fuck me sideways with the bullshit - you couldnt make up this shit, seriously.

Reminds me of this.

...seriously, I think you have more potential...I hope, at least.(n)?

 

[tathra]

So despite the lack of sensory input; there is sensory input. Fuck me sideways with the bullshit - you couldnt make up this shit, seriously.

sensory input is so essential and ubiquitous that the brain creates it itself when it gets cut off for an extended period. it's what we know, so it's what we get. willful mu meditation is probably the only exception, since you're consciously shutting out external stimulii and accrue the experiences of that over a long period of time. drop into a sensory dep tank though and it'll start creating artificial sensory data on its own after a while

 

[Asclepius]

...but..BUT you just stated, "all your senses are shut off so theres no frame of reference to hold against the hallucinations your brain is showing you in place of external sensory input. " ...if your senses were, shut-off, you would be dead, you're obviously so cut off from yourself in/out of substances that you cant even explain what is really happening to you; you are very wrong in your discernment. As in, ( with all due respect) you seem to be too partial to your own bullshit, which is unfortunate.'

 

[JessFR]

I think what he means is your external senses are shut off. Your brain can still generate its own false sense information, just without external sensory data.

 

[tathra]

shut off from external input, sorry i kind of assumed that part was understood and didn't make it clear enough

we're still far from understanding even the basics of consciousness, but sensory data is what we use to interpret and understand everything from the moment we're born, might be that artificial sensory data gets created because its too critical to the narrative that makes up one's conscious experience

 

[Asclepius]

^your brain is less sensitive to processing external stimuli, than in wakefulness. Sorry to be so pedantic but it does matter.

...I remember reading how only one hemisphere of a dolphins brain undergoes the sleep cycle, while the other remains awake to look out for enemies.
I had a housemate who used to take a lot of medication for their epilepsy. They used to fall asleep with one eye open. It was difficult to chill out in the sitting room at night,, without being a little freaked out, tbh.

 

[Xorkoth]

dreams happen in real time, just fyi. they only seem fast because they generally aren't coding memories, and all your senses are shut off so theres no frame of reference to hold against the hallucinations your brain is showing you in place of external sensory input

This isn't true... I recently had a dream that seemed to stretch on and on (involving trying to deal with my friend in meth psychosis)... and on, and on... after I woke up, and dozed back off. I got up the first time to feed my cats, and then after the dream it had been 10 minutes before I woke up again. The dream appeared to last for days. I mean of course, upon reflection it didn't seem to have lasted as long as days actually last, but my experience at the time felt like days.

I've also had an experience where I flipped over my handlebars on my bike, and was going headfirst toward the ground. I distinctly remember how time seemed to nearly stop. I watched the ground inch towards me while my thoughts moved seemingly at normal speed. I was able to calmly decide the best way for me to twist my body so I would hurt myself the least. My body slowly began to turn but my brain was thinking totally normally, 100% like I was moving in slow motion.

Different from 24 hours lasting a seeming eternity, yes. But examples of the speed of thought changing the perception of time drastically.

I've also experienced what felt like eternity in moments, on psychedelics. During my very first trip, I had a "+4", life-changing spiritual experience. I felt that I had experienced the evolution of life on the planet Earth from start to present, lifetimes upon lifetimes, and when I finally snapped back to my normal frame of reference, I thought it was hours and hours later, that it was dark out (there were window shades so it was dark, we had started tripping at like 2pm). Much to my shock, literally only 4 minutes had passed.

 

[Lucy20]

My friend told me that he learned that human brains show increasingly fainter continued neural activity after death for like 24-36 hours or something. He postulates that it's the afterlife, that we experience whatever eternity we expect to when we die (if our brains aren't demolished). I don't know if it's true but this reminded of it.

I have a friend who just finished medical school and she said the same. She figures that when people die and come back they don't leave their bodies, its just leftover neurons firing. It would make sense. Im kinda curious what happens to our electrical impulses. Einstein said electricity doesn't die and it it leaves our body and goes to the closest energy source. Makes me curious if our conscious goes with it .
Sorry a bit off topic i just find this topic very interesting.
Zombie rodents would be my version of hell