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US Events Actor Jussie Smollett faces new disorderly conduct charges in alleged fake attack

I'm not saying jail can never ever be used in any non violent crime ever. Im sure there are some extremes where nothing else has worked and you've had more then enough second chances.

The point to me is the question of societies benefit. The use of force against someone because they've committed a crime should be justified by the benefit it provides society, or the harm that would come to society in its absence.

I do not believe deterrence works, I think the evidence has shown it to be a complete failure. Criminals just don't tend to think in a way where deterrence stops the action. It'd been tried and repeatidly failed.

So with deterrence out, the question I have is the direct benefit to society.

If it comes down to putting someone in jail, or simply giving them fines they can't pay and community service they won't do, while still committing the crime again and again, then jail becomes acceptable.

But I do not believe it should be the first resort for non violent offenses. Non violent offenders should be given a chance to change.

Ultimately the point to me is to stop the crime, not see the criminal punished (again speaking of non violent offenses). Jail is acceptable when all other measures to stop the offending has failed. But only then.

I'm sure some on the more conservative side would disapprove, but rest assured I have almost no tolerance for serious violent offenses. There are crimes that I think deserve no second chances.

The problem is societies tend to either go to one extreme or the other. Either like America where drug offenses carry jail, or like Australia where you can rape a child and be free in 10 years.

I'm very lenient to the former, and have absolutely no tolerance for the latter. For me the line is violence. Financial crimes even of the highest order can still be far behind even some milder crimes of violence.

Money is money, but human life is precious. That includes the lives of criminals. So to me, generally only crimes against human health warrant such a response as imprisonment.

So it takes a lot before I think financial crimes warrant jail. And likewise it takes a lot before I think violent crimes warrant anything less.
 
JessFR said:
or like Australia where you can rape a child and be free in 10 years.
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Or like South Africa where you can rape and stab a woman, and be convicted of raping a second woman, and get 1 year in prison...

But yeah I agree with you Jess. Jail generally doesn't deter, in fact survival in prison often creates much more hardened criminals. For violent crimes, then yes absolutely lock them up. In that case the purpose is to protect society. Rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc... these people need to be partitioned away from everyone else to protect everyone else.
 
Armed robbery is a tough one. It's right on the line I've drawn between focusing on safety and focusing on intervention, and violent crime and economic crime. It also covers a fairly broad range of actions.

Id rather leave that one up for judgement on a case by case basis.
 
nuttynutskin said:
For real? I'm trying to not be rude because you're a friend, but I can't believe that's even a question.
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Like I said it all depends on a case by case basis.

I mean if a desperate person puts their hand in their jacket and tells someone in a convenience store "I have a gun, give me all your money", should that get the same sentence as someone not as desperate who points a real loaded gun in someone's face?

Im not sure it should, but they're both armed robbery.

If you wanna confine the definition of armed robbery exclusively to loaded firearms, then I'd be much more comfortable seeing such people go to jail.

But under the law in many jurisdictions, both are armed robbery.

And there are crimes that are legally armed robbery where I still think jail is excessive. If the robber actually had no weapon at all (but claims he does, making it armed robbery) and had no accomplice, and is like an 18 year old drug addict with no prior history of violence, I don't think jail is the right way to handle it. The balance of intervention vs risk to society to me doesn't warrant a lengthy stay in jail where they'll probably become a more serious criminal and be fucked for life.

On the other hand, a 30 year old with a long history of crime puts a loaded shotgun in someone's face, yeah that person should go to jail.
 
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Bernie Madoff says "Hi" and "Thanks for advocating no jail, regardless of how many lives he destroyed, people who died poor, or from being unable to afford to live longer".
 
If you need money to live then and can't get it that's another problem society needs to fix. The solution isn't to break the justice system to avoid fixing the welfare system.

I suppose when those poor people who've lost all their money have to steal because they have no social support, we can stick them in jail too. Is it any wonder we have the highest proportion of people in jail in the world.
 
Mayor Emanuel blasts decision to drop charges against 'Empire' actor Jussie Smollett: 'This is not on the level'

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Story: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...-smollett-charges-dropped-20190326-story.html



In a stunning reversal, Cook County prosecutors on Tuesday dropped all charges against "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett for allegedly staging an attack and claiming he was the victim of a hate crime.

The surprise end to a case that had transfixed the nation brought swift condemnation from police brass and Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who called it a ?whitewash of justice.?

?From top to bottom, this is not on the level,? Emanuel told reporters at an afternoon news conference, emphasizing repeatedly that a grand jury had chosen to bring 16 counts of disorderly conduct against Smollett.

The deal came to light as Smollett appeared unexpectedly in court Tuesday. Afterward, the state?s attorney?s office issued a one-sentence statement that attempted to explain the about-face but only added to the confusion.

In an interview Tuesday afternoon, First Assistant State's Attorney Joseph Magats, who took charge of the case after State?s Attorney Kim Foxx stepped aside because of a conflict of interest, said the office reached a deal with the defense in recent weeks to drop the charges if Smollett performed community service and forfeited his $100,000 bond.

"The bottom line is, we stand behind the investigation, we stand behind the decision to charge him,? Magats told the Tribune. ?The fact that (Smollett) feels that we have exonerated him, we have not. I can?t make it any clearer than that."

The state?s attorney?s office later released a letter from the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition that said Smollett had performed community service for just two days ? Saturday and Monday.

Yet in her comments to reporters, Smollett?s attorney, Patricia Brown Holmes, denied any deal had been made with prosecutors. The state?s attorney?s office simply dropped the charges, according to Brown. Smollett agreed to forfeit his bond ?so he could go on with his life and get this over with,? she said.

Smollett had posted 10 percent of the bond ? $10,000. Ordinarily, that money would be returned to him or his attorneys.

To add to the confusion, Judge Steven Watkins ordered the public court file sealed for unexplained reasons.

The baffling about-face left Emanuel and police Superintendent Eddie Johnson fuming. Both were careful not to directly criticize the state?s attorney?s office but instead targeted Smollett with their contempt.

The mayor suggested that Smollett was given special treatment because of his celebrity.

?Where is the accountability in the system?? Emanuel asked. ?You cannot have because of a person?s position one set of rules apply to them and another set of rules apply to everybody else.?

Johnson stood by the work of detectives and said he believed the city was owed an apology.

?Do I think justice was served? No,? said Johnson, who memorably blasted Smollett at a news conference last month announcing the charges, saying his hoax dragged "Chicago's reputation through the mud."

?I?ve heard that they wanted their day in court with TV cameras so America could know the truth,? the superintendent told reporters Tuesday. ?And now they chose to hide behind secrecy and broker a deal to circumvent the judicial system.?

Before departing the courthouse Tuesday, Smollett thanked his attorneys, family, friends and Chicago for supporting him through what he called ?an incredibly difficult time for me.? He also thanked ?the state of Illinois? for ?attempting to do what?s right.?

?I have been truthful and consistent from day one,? Smollett, his hands shaking as he read from notes, told reporters in the lobby of the Leighton Criminal Court Building.

Foxx recused herself from the case last month after revealing she had contact with Smollett?s representatives early on in the investigation.

Foxx declined to provide details at the time. Communications later released to the Tribune, however, showed Foxx had asked Superintendent Johnson to turn over the investigation to the FBI after she was approached by a politically connected lawyer about the case.

Holmes said she was not privy to the evidence that led prosecutors to bring charges, but she accused Johnson of ?trying the case in the press.?

When asked if authorities should investigate who actually attacked Smollett, Holmes noted that two brothers ? both of whom knew Smollett ? had already admitted their involvement. They alleged that Smollett paid them to stage the attack.

?The two men who attacked him have indicated that they attacked him, so we already know who attacked him, those brothers,? she said.

When asked whether she was calling for the brothers to be charged, Holmes said that is a decision for prosecutors to make.

?We don?t want to try them in the press any more than (Smollett) wanted to be tried in the press,? she said.

In the Tribune interview, Magats could not immediately confirm how many hours of community service Smollett performed or where, though he said he believes the actor may have done work with one of the Rev. Jesse Jackson's organizations, formerly known as Operation PUSH.

Magats said prosecutors informed Chicago police officials Tuesday morning of the decision to drop the charges against Smollett, but he noted that the office has been in contact with police from the beginning about potential options for resolving the case.

"The investigation done by CPD and the detectives was outstanding," Magats said. "The fact that the case is disposed of alternatively is not and should not be read as some type of statement that the case is flawed."

There had been no clue that prosecutors planned the about-face before the announcement. In fact, there likely would have been no reporters in the courtroom if it hadn?t been for a publicist for Smollett?s attorney alerting the news media Tuesday morning that Smollett was already in court for an unscheduled emergency hearing.

Moments after the judge allowed the dismissal, attorneys for Smollett issued a statement.

"Today, all criminal charges against Jussie Smollett were dropped and his record has been wiped clean of the filing of this tragic complaint against him,? the statement said. ?Jussie was attacked by two people he was unable to identify on January 29th. He was a victim who was vilified and made to appear as a perpetrator as a result of false and inappropriate remarks made to the public causing an inappropriate rush to judgment.

?Jussie and many others were hurt by these unfair and unwarranted actions,? the statement continued. ?This entire situation is a reminder that there should never be an attempt to prove a case in the court of public opinion. That is wrong. It is a reminder that a victim, in this case Jussie, deserves dignity and respect. Dismissal of charges against the victim in this case was the only just result.

?Jussie is relieved to have this situation behind him and is very much looking forward to getting back to focusing on his family, friends and career."

The 36-year-old actor, who is African-American and openly gay, has said he was walking from a Subway sandwich shop to his apartment in the 300 block of East North Water Street about 2 a.m. Jan. 29 when two men walked up, yelled racial and homophobic slurs, hit him and wrapped a noose around his neck.

Smollett said they also yelled, "This is MAGA country," in a reference to President Donald Trump's campaign slogan of "Make America Great Again."

Police initially treated the incident as a hate crime, but their focus turned to Smollett after two brothers who were alleged to have been his attackers told police that Smollett had paid them $3,500 to stage the attack, with a promise of an additional $500 later.

Police pieced together much of their evidence by reviewing footage from about 55 police and private surveillance cameras showing the brothers' movements before and after the attack.

The shift in the investigation came amid intense press coverage and often bitter public debate and stinging skepticism on social media.

Smollett addressed those doubts in a national TV interview and in a strongly worded statement after the brothers were released from custody after questioning by police.

A week before the alleged attack, Smollett told police he received a threatening letter at work. Prosecutors said Smollett staged the attack because he was unhappy with the studio's response to the threatening letter. Chicago police took it a step further, accusing Smollett of faking the letter as well.

Federal authorities are conducting a separate investigation into that letter.

Foxx reached out to Johnson after Tina Tchen, former chief of staff to first lady Michelle Obama, emailed Foxx saying the actor's family had unspecified "concerns about the investigation." Tchen, a close friend of Mayor Emanuel's wife, said she was acting on behalf of the "Empire" actor and his family. A relative later exchanged texts with Foxx.

The exchanges began Feb. 1, three days after Smollett claimed two men approached him near his Streeterville apartment building, yelled racist and homophobic slurs, hit him and put a noose after his neck. It would still be 2 1/2 weeks before he was charged with making the story up, but some media outlets were already starting to question the actor's account, citing unnamed police sources.

"Spoke to the Superintendent Johnson," Foxx emailed Tchen back on Feb. 1. "I convinced him to Reach out to FBI to ask that they take over the investigation."

The same day, Foxx texted with Smollett's relative, whose name was blacked out in copies released by her office.

"Spoke to the superintendent earlier, he made the ask," Foxx wrote. "Trying to figure out logistics. I'll keep you posted."

"Omg this would be a huge victory," the relative replied.

"I make no guarantees, but I'm trying," Foxx wrote back.

Kiera Ellis, a spokeswoman for the state's attorney's office, said Smollett's relative was specifically concerned about leaks to the media that purportedly came from the Police Department.
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Why does this surprise me?
 
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Wow, that's shitty. No punishment essentially. As much as I hoped he didn't stage the attack (because of how shitty of a thing to do that is), he did, they're still saying he did, so not punishing him, to me, leaves the door open for others to feel they can get away with this sort of thing.
 
It is disappointing. I mean I didn't want the guy put in jail, but I didn't want him to get off scot free either.
 
Empire writers and Fox stand by Jussie Smollett after charges are dropped

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/3/26/18282587/empire-jussie-smollett-fox-charges-dropped

Jussie Smollett still has his employers? firm support, despite polarized public opinion.

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Illinois state prosecutors have dropped all charges against Jussie Smollett.Nuccio DiNuzzo/Getty Images

Jussie Smollett?s Empire employers have released a short but firm statement of support for the actor, after Illinois state prosecutors announced Tuesday that they would drop all charges against himconcerning his allegations that he had been the victim of a hate crime in January. Smollett had said that he was attacked by two men yelling racial and homophobic epithets; he was subsequently charged with 16 felony counts after a Chicago police investigation suggested Smollett had falsified reports about the attack.
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Despite a range of contested allegations, many unknown details about the alleged attack, and mounting public frustration with how the state prosecution and city police respectively handled the case, 20th Century Fox Television said it stands by the Empire star.

?Jussie Smollett has always maintained his innocence,? read the statement, issued by 20th Century Fox Television and Fox Entertainment, ?and we are gratified on his behalf that all charges against him have been dismissed.?

Smollett has played the role of Jamal Lyon on the show since the series? debut in 2015 and has a loyal fan following. But in the wake of the allegations against him, Empire?s producers, including series co-creators Danny Strong and Lee Daniels, had previously made the decision to cut Smollett?s scenes from the remaining episodes of season five. The producers spoke of a wish to avoid distracting the cast and crew in the final days of season production. The aftermath saw the show battling its lowest ratings ever. (Four episodes of season five still remain to be aired, with episode 12 airing Wednesday, March 27.)

Following the news of Smollett?s dropped charges, the Empire writers? room also seemed to indicate its support of Smollett, with a tweet that seemed to imply that all is well with Empire going forward:

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While official statements from the show haven?t been forthcoming, the official Empire writers? Twitter account has been retweeting positive messages of support for Smollett. (Empire?s production studio Imagine TV did not immediately respond to a request for comment.) Speaking last week about the case on his personal Instagram account, Empire creator Lee Daniels described the ?roller coaster? emotional journey the cast and crew had been on, noting that ?the show was made to bring people together? rather than divide them.

Smollett always stood by his initial story that he was the victim of a hate crime in January. But not long thereafter, when the Chicago Police Department began to investigate the incident, rumors fueled by conservative press and social media suggested that the attack had been staged by Smollett himself. In a press conference held February 21 to announce that the department was bringing charges against Smollett, Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson roundly condemned the actor, accusing him of exacerbating racial tensions to perpetrate the hoax ? which Johnson stated was due to Smollett?s wish for a higher salary.

Following Tuesday?s announcement that those charges have now been dropped, members of the public across the political spectrum directed their frustration at the Chicago Police Department, which some saw as having muddled the investigation. ?Chicago PD? trended across Twitter as people also lamented being unable to trust either side of the case and get the truth of what happened. Several prominent figures joined the discussion, including Senator Kamala Harris (D-CA), Selma director Ava DuVernay, CNN?s Brian Stelter, and Parkland survivor Kyle Kashuv, as well as a litany of prominent conservatives, ranging from Dinesh D?Souza to Donald Trump, Jr., who blasted Smollett and state prosecutors.

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But Superintendent Johnson, along with Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, were apparently furious that the reputation of the Chicago Police Department had been been called into question by the prosecutor?s decision to drop the charges against Smollett. In a joint press conference, each went on the offensiveagainst Smollett, stating that they believed the police?s investigation against him had been conducted fairly.

?At the end of the day, it?s Mr. Smollett who committed this hoax, period,? Johnson said, while Emanuel called the dropped charges ?a whitewash of justice.? Emanuel and Johnson further alleged that the prosecutor had executed a deal ?brokered ... in secrecy? with Smollett.

For his part, Smollett has denied that the charges were dropped as a result of such a deal, and since the case has now been sealed by judge order, it?s unlikely we?ll ever know most of the details. Smollett stated following the brief court hearing during which the charges were dropped that he wanted to ?thank the state of Illinois for attempting to do what is right.? He also thanked ?my family, my friends, the incredible people of Chicago, and all over the country and the world who have prayed for me, who have supported me, who have shown me so much love.?

Meanwhile, the public is left with a mystery that has inflamed racial and political tensions across Chicago and across the country ? and a TV show whose producers seem eager to put all of this behind it and move forward.
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I bet if this had been some right wing folks staging that they were attacked by some leftists this would have a whole different outcome. But apparently it's ok to make right wing/Trump supporters look bad even if you break the law in doing so.
 
I find it peculiar how invested so many people got in this story and then how silent those same people are now. I'm so glad I never really cared.

The media owns your testicles, people.
 
nuttynutskin said:
I bet if this had been some right wing folks staging that they were attacked by some leftists this would have a whole different outcome. But apparently it's ok to make right wing/Trump supporters look bad even if you break the law in doing so.
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I don't know if you have any reason to think that, especially when the ruling party of your nation is right wing/Trump. It's hard for me to think of the demonized right when the right is literally in charge.
 
I'm confused as to why a prosecutor would bring all these charges only to drop them.

I get rich/famous/adored celebrities get tons of special treatment, but from what I know, this guy is not really any of these things (when compared to other celebrities). He's not THAT rich. He's not THAT famous for anything other than this case. He's certainly not adored. Everyone I've come across either actively despises him or is personally offended by him in some way.

He was going to jail and people had really stopped giving a shit.

Given that, the fact that they would flat out drop the charges can lead me to no other conclusion that there is some kind of evidentiary bombshell somewhere that we haven't seen yet.

I hope someone changes my mind but if the prosecutors were biased in some way they simply would have declined to bring charges in the first place.
 
swilow said:
I don't know if you have any reason to think that, especially when the ruling party of your nation is right wing/Trump. It's hard for me to think of the demonized right when the right is literally in charge.
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What? If three white guys had pulled a hoax like this and then the ring leader was let off scotfree! Chicago would be in flames right now! "I don't know if you have any reason to think that" Jesus fucking Christ!!
 
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Yeah I just skimmed through the whole thread, I was unable to find any posts of yours either deleted or unapproved.
 
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