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Misc kratom withdrawal.

To everyone saying Kratom w/d is nothing, keep in mind each time you w/d can be a little worse. I personally feel like I toughen up with each kick but two things that do seem to get worse each time are the PAWS/cravings. Most recently I jumped off of whatever 5 kilos in 4 months equals out to and I?m 20 some days off and I can honestly say the PAWS seem worst than the acute this time around. To the OP: all strains have w/d. White strains have the most Mitragyna, while reds have the most 7-hydroxy-Mitragyna(or whatever) and the greens are somewhere in between. Don?t take OTC sleep meds while kicking as they exacerbate RLS during withdrawal. Try some stem and vein powder if you ever want to ween off completely coupled with black seed oil and L-THP. I absolutely do not recommend benzos for opiate w/d as it is extremely easy to trade one for something much worse
 
methoman2000 said:
Does Kato really get you high? Is it worth buying and trying it?
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It gets you about as high as a cup of good strong coffee. So, high? Not in my opinion, a pleasant mood lift is more accurate. Sorry for bumping a thread from the ��
 
methoman2000 said:
Does Kato really get you high?
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Guess that would depend on what one defines as "high." I find it subtle (my favorite) to medium effects but one can get sick trying to get blasted on it. Never took it that far but have read some horror stories. If there is a need for me to get to the point of an alternate "reality" then this is not my go-to.
methoman2000 said:
Is it worth buying and trying it?
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Sure... it's cheap and has some great qualities in my experience. As with anything (water, food, gambling, sex etc.) there is the potential for abuse and it can turn on ya. I would suggest one go into this with a responsible attitude and always err on the side of caution.
However: In a perfect optimal world one would confer with a doc to make sure it is OK for the individual.
 
ummm ive been a heroin addict for years and have felt the w/d's of both....kratom w.d is definitely not a joke. I drink 40-50 grams a day and every 8 hours i start to feel em come. i would suggest using lope, nyquil, tylenol, valerian root, melatonin....helps a little
 
Yeah, I tend to agree. I have used Kratom pretty much non-stop for several years now and have weaned down considerably in the last months and I, too, have come off H, Morphine, Oxy, Methadone, blah, blah, blah and Kratom can be fairly rough.
The RLS is, for me, the worst/first symptom of withdrawal.
I think anyone who says "Oh, Kratom is easy to withdraw from" has shit for Kratom.
 
I think a big part of it is whether your were dependant on "regular" opiates/opioids before starting your kratom habit, or if kratom was your first. For those in the former group, the WDs are just as bad as WDing from oxy or morphine, but for those in the latter I don't doubt that the WDs are substantially easier, even for those with a very large kratom habit, based on what I have witnessed firsthand.
 
In my opinion, how bad your Kratom WD is is dependent on how dependent you are on Kratom, how frequently you take it and how long it's been since you've taken a break.

I believe it can be really bad if you are very dependent on it and I've experienced some fairly unpleasant WD that lasted 6 days max once, but it rarely happens cause I follow some basic rules:

I try not to let myself dose more than 4 days a week, not more than 2 days in a row, and not more than 7 grams per dose.

When I stick to those rules I rarely get WD at all.

Last week I slipped up and took it 3 days in a row and 5 days in a week so I had 3 days of feeling like I had a mild cold before they went away and I dosed again and I think that's what people need to do: just figure out what schedule works for you, learn to recognize your WD symptoms, and if they show up then abstain till you are sure your WD is over to dose again.

The worst it's been when I was taking like 16 gram doses 3 times a day (but still no more than 4 days a week), I had 6 days of feeling like a had a bad cold, no energy, sniffles and depression and that really sucked but I toughed it out then actually stopped for almost a year.

I mean everyone has a different amount they can get away with without WD but from my experience I believe Kratom can be used at least a couple days a week, if not 3-4, and you can avoid becoming physically dependent on it.

It seems like everyone is either all or nothing with it and I don't understand why.

I mean you can take it every single day and get super addicted and sooner or later SOMETHING will happen and you won't be able to get some or whatever and then you have to suffer through bad WD, or you can just stick to like 3-4 days a week and enjoy it and not have to deal with the WD.

I kind of don't get it.

It needs to be respected, but if you play around and figure out what rules work for you with your unique make up you can still get away with using it a few days a week and never go through WD.

It's a win/win.
 
Mycophile said:
I mean you can take it every single day and get super addicted and sooner or later SOMETHING will happen and you won't be able to get some or whatever and then you have to suffer through bad WD, or you can just stick to like 3-4 days a week and enjoy it and not have to deal with the WD.

I kind of don't get it.

It needs to be respected, but if you play around and figure out what rules work for you with your unique make up you can still get away with using it a few days a week and never go through WD.

It's a win/win.
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Yep, you're right, but for an additive personality, at least mine, that shit is easier said than done, and I will probably do Kratom the way I did the rest and that is to get tired of the shit and quit.
Doesn't mean it's easy or fun and after 3 years straight it's going to be a fucking bitch, but I have a ton and am weaning as we speak and I will try to quit with product in stash as I did with Methadone...it just wasn't fun any more.
 
phuckingnutz said:
... the way I did the rest and that is to get tired of the shit and quit.
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Can't tell you how many habits, substances, drinks, food, women (decades ago), employment, exercise etc. that was ditched for the same reason... just got tired of the same-ol-same-ol.
Does anyone else not really care about withdrawals enough to not search for an alternative way to "come down?"
What I mean to say I reckon is that WDs symptoms being a bitch by nature have kinda become familiar and maybe accustomed to? I use to freak the F out when I was about to have to quit or run out of "stuff" and go a searching for the latest/greatest cure for the come-down. Now I may experience a little anxiety beforehand but just kinda accepted this as part of the program (SOP) and deal a lot better with the whole thing. Could most of the symptoms be exacerbated by our own minds and general attitudes?
 
PtahTek said:
Can't tell you how many habits, substances, drinks, food, women (decades ago), employment, exercise etc. that was ditched for the same reason... just got tired of the same-ol-same-ol.
Does anyone else not really care about withdrawals enough to not search for an alternative way to "come down?"
What I mean to say I reckon is that WDs symptoms being a bitch by nature have kinda become familiar and maybe accustomed to? I use to freak the F out when I was about to have to quit or run out of "stuff" and go a searching for the latest/greatest cure for the come-down. Now I may experience a little anxiety beforehand but just kinda accepted this as part of the program (SOP) and deal a lot better with the whole thing. Could most of the symptoms be exacerbated by our own minds and general attitudes?
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I agree, I would be more afraid of my digestion system getting screwed by taking 10+g of largely unresearched plant powder/day than about the consequences of addiction itself. Speaking about, the WD from ~10g/day for several years is really unimpressive, if you expect a mind blowing negative experience. It had less impact on me than an average flue ... I never consumed any opiate before my Kratom addiction, so I am in the ballpark of people who support the likely thesis, that former opiate addicts, that switch to Kratom and subsequently end up with unconventional dose regimens struggle significantly harder than opioid virgins, that end up being addicted to Kratom (and typically don't dose heroically, even after months/years of abuse).
 
phuckingnutz said:
Yep, you're right, but for an additive personality, at least mine, that shit is easier said than done, and I will probably do Kratom the way I did the rest and that is to get tired of the shit and quit.
Doesn't mean it's easy or fun and after 3 years straight it's going to be a fucking bitch, but I have a ton and am weaning as we speak and I will try to quit with product in stash as I did with Methadone...it just wasn't fun any more.
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Oh don't get me wrong I have a very addictive personality too and would probably consider myself a poly drug abuser between that, alcohol, ocassional F-Phenibut, Klonopin only for anxiety, drinking WAY too much coffee, eating too much, sleeping too much, weed, etc, everything too much lol.

But the difference with Kratom is I'm actually scared of getting too addicted so that keeps me in check.

Years ago when I first came on here and was introduced to it I heard the stories of how tough it can be for some people to stop and decided I wouldn't let it happen, but I mean I slipped up again today and broke my rule just like I did last week and took it 3 days in a row.

I wouldn't have, but I was hungover and had to go to a class and felt I needed something to take to feel better and Kratom was all I had that would work.

Now I might or might not have a few days of WD that I'll tough out.

That's the tough part: when you mess up and have some WD but have important things to do you HAVE to do and its either do them while feeling like shit and not dose and tough out the WD (which is really what you HAVE to do), or give in to taking some and then make your WD worse. Sometimes I can do that if I taper and take a mini dose till I have a long weekend and then use that to abstain, but it's always a fine line.

It's a tight rope to walk between Kratom or F-Phenibut for fun, coffee to wake up which makes me all jittery as I drink too much, alcohol to wind down or crashing from the caffeine but then I get a hangover and need Kratom too feel better, etc and still manage to get my shit done.

Most of us addicts have to walk the line and we slip up and deal with it.

I'd say if anything its the less catastrophic ways these things fuck me up like missing my workout today because of it, but it adds up and lessens quality of life.

Then again, I just love Kratom too much.

You gotta do what you gotta do, either accept the downsides and use certain substances or quit.

I don't usually "quit", but I do abstain for long periods of time like how I went almost a year without Kratom before last December, and sooner or later I'm sure I'll stop for quite a while again.

Who knows, maybe someday I'll quit all drugs...can't imagine it now, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.
 
Mycophile said:
I'd say if anything its the less catastrophic ways these things fuck me up like missing my workout today because of it, but it adds up and lessens quality of life.
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I tend to agree with this: It is the small things that screw with our minds more so than the major crisis. The big things have to be worked out most immediately. The little stuff (like missing a workout, spending some quality time with a loved one, calling off a day of work, cutting the grass, feeding the animals, going to the grocery-store, making that phone call to an old friend etc. ad nauseam....) makes me feel half the man I was yesterday: And it can build until I feel infinitesimal or down-right non-existent "well-being" nowhere in the picture.
This is what makes me so uncaring of my addictive behaviour as as long as I moderate my intake(s) I usually stay at an even keel.
There is the fact that I hate people (but have to put on the plastic smile daily) and endure back pain (sometimes debilitating) so I use "stuff" to self-medicate now; and use daily without regret. These substances are subtle, legal and dirt-cheap so my bank and wife are "happy".
Back on topic of kratom withdrawal:
Do not plan to quit this so I do not look to go through the WDs. Have come off other stuff (both tapered and not - tapered being my preferred method) but just can't see it being as bad or worse than dropping any other habit. I have gone without it for a couple days (just for fun) and I get the runny nose, a little restless and pain creeps back in.
I went from say 1 gram 4-5 times a day to double that: 2 gr 4-5 times a day. Seemed like it had reverse effects (more lethargic, less "let's get it done" attitude and generally less patience - yet more relief from pain > lol). Went back to the 1gr doses and the magic returned. Go figure.
Wish I could give up the cigs, man... this is my most expensive and destructive habit. 8)

PS: When I say I "hate people" this is not a literal thing... just the PTS and the game that most are ingrained from birth to run on others. Not a game player. I actually have tons of love and empathy... just wont let this get exploited as all else on this rock we live and share.
Peace, family.
 
2 Weeks with no Kratom now. That was a lot harder than I thought it would be. Mostly the psychological void left within me, which is not surprising given I have used Kratom since 2015 pretty much every single day with little worry about any consequences. Honestly it just took a lot of willpower to decide I was leaning on it way too hard and to make it an occasional treat instead of the foundation of my daily routine. Probably going to try to take a solid 2-3 months off before I even consider using it monthly/biweekly as an occasional novel buzz.
 
PtahTek said:
Just out of curiosity: What ill effects (if any) are you feeling after this two week break?

Edit: Love your location... trying to avoid it daily with a puff or two of mary-j. 8(
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After 2 weeks I'm pretty much back to normal. I had extreme lethargy and anhedonia though, lot of runny noses an phlegm I was coughing up but no stomach/intestinal issues thank god, so in that one area it was actually a lot easier to deal than kicking like oxy or whatever was for me in the past. But the lack of motivation and energy was fucking intense. I just slept for 14-16 hours a day for a solid 4 or so days that first week. Then it was just weird not having kratom to dose or that comfy space it provides to sink into. Cannabis is a lot more psychedelic now it seems, as I usually combined it with kratom, and also I am wanting caffiene a lot more since I feel like I'm sluggish more often. I want to eat like twice as often I think Kratom was actually worsening my tendency to skip meals/avoid food cause the buzz is better on a mostly empty stomach.

I had been taking kratom for almost three and a half years almost every single day at least once a day, really strong red maeng da for the most part.

And yeah fuck babylon man, thats why I was taking the kratom to begin with
 
I still hate WD's, but I hate HAVING to have something more and these days it's a bit of a challenge. Me vs WD's and I'll be damned if I am going to let me beat me. Really, the only part of WD's I can't fucking take well is the RLS...the rest of it is relatively easy, but RLS is my Kryptonite and has been the reason for more "fails" than I can count.
I have burned out on more shit than I care to think about and Kratom is no different. I dread the day day when I run out of shit top get tired of.
Will i start over? Probably.
 
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