The "Best" Anxiolytic?

[Wilson Wilson]

Honeywhite I'm in the same boat as you but I do NOT recommend Bromazepan. A quick search showed this:

Bromazepam is similar in side effects to other benzodiazepines. The most common side effects reported are drowsiness, sedation, ataxia, memory impairment, and dizziness.[7] Impairments to memory functions are common with bromazepam and include a reduced working memory and reduced ability to process environmental information.[8][9][10] A 1975 experiment on healthy, male college students exploring the effects of four different drugs on learning capacity observed that taking bromazepam alone at 6 mg 3 times daily for 2 weeks impaired learning capacities significantly. In combination with alcohol, impairments in learning capacity became even more pronounced.[11] Various studies report impaired memory, visual information processing and sensory data and impaired psychomotor performance;[12][13][14] deterioration of cognition including attention capacity and impaired co-ordinative skills;[15][16] impaired reactive and attention performance, which can impair driving skills;[17] drowsiness and decrease in libido.[18][19] Unsteadiness after taking bromazepam is, however, less pronounced than other benzodiazepines such as lorazepam.[20]

Yeah... no fucking thanks.

Phenibut looks more promising but most of the information is in Russian. Is there a single anxiolytic that doesn't have retard-inducing effects or give you a limp dick? DOesn't seem so.

6mg bromazepam (the maximum dose in one tablet) three times a day is a large dose. It's like taking three 2mg Xanax bars a day. It should not be news to anyone that repeatedly taking large doses of benzodiazepines causes impairment. But keep your doses sensibly low and this shouldn't be a concern - you do still need to watch out for tolerance and dependence of course.

Phenibut is very good but tolerance and dependence build very rapidly, as quickly as a few days of use. If you use phenibut sparingly it works wonders particularly for social anxiety but it's not a good drug to use frequently. The withdrawal is nasty too.

 

[SirTophamHat]

What works best for me is a low dose of a dissociative. PCP and friends get bad rep, but they're actually good anti-depressants. One big advantage is that NMDA antagonists don't have physical withdrawals (as opposed to the infamous benzos and opis, which are both great antidepressants, but also have horrific withdrawal symptoms).

Thanks for reminding me! *pops 30mg dextromethorphan*

If you can get over the stigma, dissos are a really wonderful class.

 

[AsiJO96]

6mg bromazepam = 10 mg diazepam = 1-2mg alprazolam

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^^^ What you cited is true for all benzodiazepines. The most efficacious class of drug for pervasive anxiety. If there were anything better--and beta blockers definitely aren't--it would be in market circulation by now.

Barbs are better anxiolytics, very rarely given due to low therapeutic ratio.

 

[SirTophamHat]

You're not wrong, Mr. Minh. However, I thought that we were taking therapeutic ratios into consideration with the question. With the possible exception of NDMA antagonists, I think everything that would beat out a benzo is going to be more dangerous.

The logical endzone of the discussion lands with cognitive behavioral therapy and lots of it, yet this is Drug Culture, not Psychology Today. So I'd hold to my advocation of benzo or thienodiazepines (etc.) with the caveat that one has to find the right formulation for their individual physiology. They aren't perfect, however treating anxiety with chemicals is almost never going to be cut-and-dry.

 

[JK25]

Hands Down Midazolam

Yes it is prescribed by UK doctors.

Fuck whatever anyone says, Midazolam will always top any other Benzo, yes Diazepam included (urg too long half life, too many active metabolites what what)

Because of Midazolam's water solubility, it is the FASTEST acting, HARDEST hitting Benzo out there. Also with a half-life of 2.5 to 6 hours ma. You can fuck out on dat 7 on crystal, drink 30mg of Midazolam and within 15-20 mins taken P.O. on an empty stomach and bam!!

 

[johnlesliemackie]

Ashwagandha is far from the best anxiolytic, but it's underrated. It potentiates, or works in synergy with, gabaergics but also provides some noticeable anxiety reduction on its own.

 

[Inds]

6mg bromazepam (the maximum dose in one tablet) three times a day is a large dose. It's like taking three 2mg Xanax bars a day. It should not be news to anyone that repeatedly taking large doses of benzodiazepines causes impairment.

And taking half that dose only causes half the impairment, like that makes anything better. Is my choice really having crippling anxiety or having Down Syndrome? So stupid.

 

[SirTophamHat]

And taking half that dose only causes half the impairment, like that makes anything better. Is my choice really having crippling anxiety or having Down Syndrome? So stupid.

If you are worried about the cognitive impairment from a low or average dose of a benzodiazepine you probably shouldn't leave the house, as that would be far more perilous to your health. The exhaust fumes from rush hour traffic might cause light headedness from oxygen deprivation, and you'd be losing brain cells. My god.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Usually I do. But it sounds like OP understands this and is wary of it. People who use while medicated ruin it for the rest of us.

NMDA antagonists for anxiety?

At this point, it's unclear why OP wants to pursue a minor anxiolytic.

This is very serious. OP might want to consider inpatient care.

 

[honeywhite]

Diamorphine is going off on a tangent a bit, it technically is anxiolytic but it's very much overkill for that purpose! It's still used in the UK as a painkiller although only in hospitals and only in severe cases. Usually it's given to old people who are about to die so they can have some comfort in their last days. The NHS used to do outpatient scripts too but this has pretty much stopped now because of diversion.

But if we're talking about old drugs, don't forget simple morphine is the gold standard classic opiate and is still widely used all over the world. In the UK you often get it prescribed in liquid form under the brand name Oramorph in a dosage of 10mg/5ml.

In fact I actually use easily available codeine as an anxiolytic sometimes since we're on the topic of opiates. It's not something I'd encourage others to do, but for me at least it works very well and helps me take tolerance breaks from benzos.

I'd disagree that diamorphine for anxiety is overkill. Underkill, rather! My doctor in Durham (I read law there) gives me a prescription strictly for pain; it works for that, and makes me less anxious as a side effect, but it doesn't make me FREE of anxiety. I would not give it to someone who has anxiety without pain.

I used to have Oramorph but it was messy and I would have to drink a shot glass of it every four hours just to take the edge off. I liked the taste of it though. Diamorphine tablets are superior; two 5mg tabs q6h is the optimal dose for me and works wonders, for my pain at least. Only downside is its tendency to make me chunder if I smoke after having taken it. I had half a mind to throw the medicine in Niamh's face after she had the balls to tell me to quit smoking. I eventually calmed down enough to realise that I was getting fresh, pharmaceutically pure heroin for ?8.50 a month, so I asked for Largactil to reduce the vomiting.
Anyway, that's way off topic.

As for anxiolytics, further experimentation has shewn that bromazepam is a decent, but not superior, replacement for phenobarbitone. The barbiturates remain, for now, my first choice.

 

[honeywhite]

Usually I do. But it sounds like OP understands this and is wary of it. People who use while medicated ruin it for the rest of us.

NMDA antagonists for anxiety?

At this point, it's unclear why OP wants to pursue a minor anxiolytic.

This is very serious. OP might want to consider inpatient care.

Who said anything about an NMDA antagonist? I use a barbiturate and have tried bromazepam as well. Why should I consider inpatient care? All I was after was something that was as efficacious as phenobarbitone but less toxic/addictive. Bromazepam fits the bill.

There is NO WAY I'm getting hospitalised. Especially not for minor psychological issues that I can treat with a once-weekly pill.

 

[honeywhite]

Anxiolytic benzos are great. Even though Diazepam has the longest half life, it is the weakest imo. Clonazepam 2mg are good, but Alprazolam 2mg are definitely the most effetctive I think. I have never tried Bromazepam though.

Xanax is too short acting for my needs. Also slightly hypnotic, which I don't want.

 

[honeywhite]

Fuck whatever anyone says, Midazolam will always top any other Benzo, yes Diazepam included (urg too long half life, too many active metabolites what what)

Because of Midazolam's water solubility, it is the FASTEST acting, HARDEST hitting Benzo out there. Also with a half-life of 2.5 to 6 hours ma. You can fuck out on dat 7 on crystal, drink 30mg of Midazolam and within 15-20 mins taken P.O. on an empty stomach and bam!!

I don't need hard hitting, I want to be able to work, not get knocked out! Read the original post - I wanted something that reduced anxiety without being impairing and without being toxic.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Who said anything about an NMDA antagonist? I use a barbiturate and have tried bromazepam as well. Why should I consider inpatient care? All I was after was something that was as efficacious as phenobarbitone but less toxic/addictive. Bromazepam fits the bill.

There is NO WAY I'm getting hospitalised. Especially not for minor psychological issues that I can treat with a once-weekly pill.

STH (don't worry about it)

You don't have to if you don't think it would help. I'm not telling you. If I was in your position, I would.

This is because:

-you smoke 100 cigarettes per day

-you've tried many benzos

-you've tried the barbs

-you've tried atypical GABAergics

-you've tried xyrem

-you refuse to be sated, and need to stabilize on something that will work as a therapy, and not for recreation

-you don't seem to understand that there is no real "magic bullet" of the like you're used to

-the hospital will likely go through tests and evaluate you, giving the appropriate treatment, which will set you on your feet to greater recovery, the fastest.



strongly guess that bromazepam will not be what you're looking for, because I think what you're looking for doesn't exist. All drugs, all medications, have side effects. People don't just live in fairy tales forever because of drugs.

My opinion is that's how you're going to know what's really going on. I think that's what will set you on your feet fastest, but I sure guessed that reaction. I'm sorry things are this way for you, and hope you can accept real help. Good Luck.

 

[JK25]

I don't need hard hitting, I want to be able to work, not get knocked out! Read the original post - I wanted something that reduced anxiety without being impairing and without being toxic.

Okay well 1-2mg taken orally will result in axiolysis which is what you are looking for. Still kicks in in like 15min and when not used for sedation will last 3-4 hours

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I'd disagree that diamorphine for anxiety is overkill. Underkill, rather! My doctor in Durham (I read law there) gives me a prescription strictly for pain; it works for that, and makes me less anxious as a side effect, but it doesn't make me FREE of anxiety. I would not give it to someone who has anxiety without pain.

I used to have Oramorph but it was messy and I would have to drink a shot glass of it every four hours just to take the edge off. I liked the taste of it though. Diamorphine tablets are superior; two 5mg tabs q6h is the optimal dose for me and works wonders, for my pain at least. Only downside is its tendency to make me chunder if I smoke after having taken it. I had half a mind to throw the medicine in Niamh's face after she had the balls to tell me to quit smoking. I eventually calmed down enough to realise that I was getting fresh, pharmaceutically pure heroin for ?8.50 a month, so I asked for Largactil to reduce the vomiting.
Anyway, that's way off topic.

As for anxiolytics, further experimentation has shewn that bromazepam is a decent, but not superior, replacement for phenobarbitone. The barbiturates remain, for now, my first choice.

I didn't know they still prescribed those for outpatient use!

I've never used any heroin pharmaceutical or otherwise but the opiates I have used - codeine, DHC, tramadol, morphine, oxy - all did absolute wonders for my anxiety. When I need to take a break from benzos I will use codeine or DHC for a bit instead because they help the benzo withdrawal and treat the underlying anxiety very well until tolerance develops. Always the bugger with opiates that is, certainly no long-term solution for anxiety but when they work they work well.

 

[Inds]

If you are worried about the cognitive impairment from a low or average dose of a benzodiazepine you probably shouldn't leave the house, as that would be far more perilous to your health. The exhaust fumes from rush hour traffic might cause light headedness from oxygen deprivation, and you'd be losing brain cells. My god.

That is an utterly false analogy and you know it. Experiencing 1% lightheadedness vs. experiencing 50% retardation are incomparable scenarios. If one dose impairs you moderately, half that dose will still impair you half as much and who knows what kind of damage long-term use of this crap will do.

Bromazepam is a benzo, how is it different from xannies, dias or loras exactly? OP already stated that benzos did not work out for him.

honeywhite, I think I might have a suggestion which will work but you'll be sticking needles in yourself every day which is the reason it's not desirable for me. Oxytocin. I tried it last year and it obliterated my anxiety, gave me the most blissful sense of peace ever and unlike benzos it's the opposite of chemical castration, it actually increased my sex drive. The only negative side effect I can name is that it decreased my attention span but I couldn't find this symptom in official literature so maybe it won't happen for everyone. But it won't be possible to take it in pill form and the drug is incredibly fragile to environmental factors.

 

[Moxious]

That is an utterly false analogy and you know it. Experiencing 1% lightheadedness vs. experiencing 50% retardation are incomparable scenarios. If one dose impairs you moderately, half that dose will still impair you half as much and who knows what kind of damage long-term use of this crap will do.

Bromazepam is a benzo, how is it different from xannies, dias or loras exactly? OP already stated that benzos did not work out for him.

It might not have been the best analogy but dose-response curves are just that, curved, not linear, and different effects begin at different doses, with different benzos having effects beginning at different points. AFAIK the only consistency is the order, i.e. anxiolytic effects always precede hypnotic effects. So no half the dose does not mean half the effect at all.

There very likely is a dose of a benzo that would be appropriate for his situation, it's just a matter of finding it. There are of course the other drawbacks of benzos though

 

[Inds]

All benzos are short-term relievers, it's not something you can take every day. This is useless for general anxiety. I get that the effects are not linear, 75mg of ecstasy did nothing for me yet 110 had me rolling balls but my problem with bromazepam is what the effects ultimately manifest themselves as; that is, they limit your cognitive function which kills anxiety as a side effect. May as well just cut off your head if you wanna truly be cured in that case. When I took 1mg lora, it neutralized most of my anxiety and *some* of my cognitive function, so it served well for temporary relief but this is useless for long-term use which ends in brain damage.