Pentagon to Allow Transgender Individuals to Enlist Despite Trump Objections

[Droppersneck]

Ya I just DuckDuckGoed and StartPagded it and didn't find anything of the sort. I don't mind looking it up, usually if there is anything to it, especially if it's a trump admin member agreeing with liberals, it's bound to be in all left leaning publications from WAPO to USAtoday.

 

[cduggles]

I know the current rules are more progressive, likewise the complaints aren't as frequent anymore either. But my point was that I find it a little odd that people get so worked up over it.

Yeah, I absolutely get you were simply making a point about people getting upset about not meeting eligibility requirements to donate blood.

I just didn't want anyone else to get confused by your use of the present tense regarding donations by LGBT individuals, because someone who is not as familiar with the current guidelines (and maybe O- ) might believe they are ineligible and not take the opportunity to donate.

(Plus the criteria are always changing... Zika virus!... so it's always good to refresh.)

This kinda reminds me of when lgbt types get pissed off when for various reasons they're not allowed to donate blood.

 

[cduggles]

Ya I just DuckDuckGoed and StartPagded it and didn't find anything of the sort. I don't mind looking it up, usually if there is anything to it, especially if it's a trump admin member agreeing with liberals, it's bound to be in all left leaning publications from WAPO to USAtoday.

And I was going to post a link when I was done savoring that moment, but I'll just stand on my rep of posting facts and you just keep using your 'tech job' skills.

 

[Droppersneck]

Yeah I didn't see anything of the sort so I'm going to assume you were reading buzzfeed

 

[cduggles]

^ Or maybe the MSM is SuppRessIng Pentagon memos! :D

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Well at least we all agree for once Yes I'm not sure of the numbers with it's occurrence, but I know that it has happened, and I would like to curtail any future surgeries from happening on the tax payers dime.

Conservatives: more concerned about minute allocations to minorities than gigantic corporate and billionaire welfare


the outrage has nothing to do with the money itself, so dokn't hide behind that. It has everything to do with the fact that a minority is benefiting

 

[spacejunk]

Sometimes it is better to remain silent, if the alternative will incite hate. However, one should always speak out against evil, and promote the spread of truth and condemn lies.

On the contrary, i think if people are going to hate people for their sexuality, we need to ignore them, not pander to them.

Part of the reason the gay liberation movement has been so successful over the past 50 odd years, and seeing in a massive cultural change; exposure and normalisation.
What's that expression - 'sunlight is the best disinfectant'?

"Coming out" has long been something of a politically relevant act - which hopefully won't be necessary before too long.

Attitudes towards homosexuality have become a lot more enlightened in recent years, and that's not from people hiding, it's from people standing up to hate.
Hate is a product of ignorance and fear - there is nothing rational about it.

Assuming your post relates back to trans rights - the more people are exposed to trans people's stories and listen to them, the less hateful they will be.
The more people understand trans issues, the less effective the dehumanising efforts of hateful people will be.

Education, honesty and understanding is the key. Not silence.

the outrage has nothing to do with the money itself, so dokn't hide behind that. It has everything to do with the fact that a minority is benefiting

Exactly this.
Some honesty would be nice, but clearly too much to ask of some people.

 

[alasdairm]

the outrage has nothing to do with the money itself, so dokn't hide behind that. It has everything to do with the fact that a minority is benefiting

i have to agree with this. it's incredible how some people shit the bed over something like this but are comfortable with millions of dollars in corporate welfare. sad!

alasdair

 

[Blue_Phlame]

I still think issues regarding sexuality should be kept private. Get back in the closet. That goes for hetero people too.

Trans people are people too, that's the first thing people should think when they encounter someone who's trans. The next is how that person conducts themselves according to acceptable norms. But because trans people aren't the norm, they get a tougher life. Rather than encouraging the normalization of trans people in society, the attention should be towards seeing them for what they are - people with an abnormal condition; then treating them according to their personality characteristics. Both people should treat each other with respect.

But aside from that, some people will notice things out of the ordinary. And when a trans person appears as passable or not, our brains are tuned to noticing tiny details in other people's expressions and physical characteristics. It cannot be helped if someone is seen as the sex they were born with, rather than the gender they assign themselves. It takes a lot of effort to consciously call someone a "her" or a "him" if they were once a "he" or a "she".

In addition to this, teaching gender neutral pronouns in school for such a small minority should not be encouraged anymore than a passing comment to a rare exception.

 

[Blue_Phlame]

Hate is a product of ignorance and fear - there is nothing rational about it.

Hate isn't a product of ignorance and fear, and to think it is, is illogical and unreasonable.

On the contrary, i think if people are going to hate people for their sexuality, we need to ignore them, not pander to them.

And I think hate is an emotion people are allowed to feel. If there is a reason to hate something, there are reasons for it.

Part of the reason the gay liberation movement has been so successful over the past 50 odd years, and seeing in a massive cultural change; exposure and normalisation.

There is no universal definition of success, only what is successful to some, and a failure to others.
Massive cultural changes also cause massive divisions, conflict, and instability.

What's that expression - 'sunlight is the best disinfectant'?

Time is the healer

"Coming out" has long been something of a politically relevant act - which hopefully won't be necessary before too long.

It should have never been politicized, it's the reason for all this turmoil in the first place.

Attitudes towards homosexuality have become a lot more enlightened in recent years, and that's not from people hiding, it's from people standing up to hate.

And alternately, attitudes towards traditional values¹ have become a lot more stigmatized in recent years, and that's from constant exposure of the contrary and denormalization.

Assuming your post relates back to trans rights - the more people are exposed to trans people's stories and listen to them, the less hateful they will be.

The small minority of trans people should have never gotten the attention they're getting now, let alone more. This is not to do with hate.

The more people understand trans issues, the less effective the dehumanising efforts of hateful people will be.

Education, honesty and understanding is the key. Not silence.

There will be people who will dehumanize other people, and will hate other people. There will be uneducated, dishonest, and people who don't understand. There will also be loud obnoxious zealots too.

I understand trans issues, I don't dehumanize them.

I still think some people should keep things to themselves.

Some honesty would be nice, but clearly too much to ask of some people.

Clearly we know which people we're talking about. About as clear as as mud.

 

[Droppersneck]

Hate isn't a product of ignorance and fear, and to think it is, is illogical and unreasonable.




And I think hate is an emotion people are allowed to feel. If there is a reason to hate something, there are reasons for it.

There is no universal definition of success, only what is successful to some, and a failure to others.
Massive cultural changes also cause massive divisions, conflict, and instability.


Time is the healer


It should have never been politicized, it's the reason for all this turmoil in the first place.


And alternately, attitudes towards traditional values have become a lot more stigmatized in recent years, and that's from constant exposure of the contrary and denormalization.



The small minority of trans people should have never gotten the attention they're getting now, let alone more. This is not to do with hate.


There will be people who will dehumanize other people, and will hate other people. There will be uneducated, dishonest, and people who don't understand. There will also be loud obnoxious zealots too.

I understand trans issues, I don't dehumanize them.

I still think some people should keep things to themselves.


Clearly we know which people we're talking about. About as clear as as mud.

Ooohhhhhh daaayum, bp no idea you were so logic driven. Dropping them red pills in ce&p big league. Do you think you could cope living back in Australia where your way of thinking is ostracized/rejected.

FYI CEP, trump is the most trans friendly republican president of all time, and only not the overall trans friendly president, bc of Michelle and obama.

 

[alasdairm]

Hate isn't a product of ignorance and fear, and to think it is, is illogical and unreasonable.

why? i think there are many reasons people hate and ignorance and fear are factors. i disagree it's either illogical or unreasonable.

And I think hate is an emotion people are allowed to feel.

of course. but i think we're also talking about hate manifest in action.

If there is a reason to hate something, there are reasons for it.

so if there's a reason for something there's a reason for something? that seems self-evident.

why do you think people hate, b_p? especially when it's somebody they've never met and about whom they know very little?

alasdair

 

[spacejunk]

I still think issues regarding sexuality should be kept private. Get back in the closet. That goes for hetero people too

Nah - hate belongs in the closet.

Fortunately, a lot of homophobes and racists are getting old and dying.

It's ludicrous to suggest people who deal with hate should hide. As above - the opposite is true.
If you want to hide away from the modern world, nobody is stopping you. To suggest others do that is

illogical and unreasonable

 

[David Wooderson]

Conservatives: more concerned about minute allocations to minorities than gigantic corporate and billionaire welfare

Billionaires will put more ppl to work and feed more families than minorities on welfare and food stamps.

It is very much against a conservative mindset to give handouts anyone that isn't in a special/extreme circumstance. If you can work than you can take responsibility for your life and move closer to your desires in life. There are plenty of private charity programs, the state/federal government needs to end them. There are many federal job retraining programs that put you in the seat of power and control of your own life.

When you just handout free money the ppl devolve into slaves and creates an entire industry of slaves that vote for the party that supports the handouts.

Entitlements and welfares destroy ambition and freedom and has set this country back decades.

 

[spacejunk]

I don't live in the richest country in the world, but we don't have the number - or extreme poverty - of slums that you find across the United States.
That's no accident - it's due to the welfare state, and giving a shit about your fellow countrymen.

It seems to me, people that preach patriotism but leave their fellow citizens to starve in the streets are nothing of the sort.

Having spent enough time in america to know very well that i don't want to live there, i can say with the utmost confidence that welfare is a good thing.

But that's very off topic - it's funny isnt it, the lengths some "conservatives" will go to in order to dodge talking about trans rights, and anything else that makes them uncomfortable, which is why i guess this conversation is cloaked in references to other topics.

Say it with me now - trans gen-der rights

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Billionaires will put more ppl to work and feed more families than minorities on welfare and food stamps.

That would mean that the societies with the largest wealth disparities must have the lowest hunger rates.

I don't think that's the case.

 

[FLA]

I don't think the military can afford to be too picky anyway with a voluntary military. If things got bad enough they would have to take old men and young teenagers with panzerfausts like at the end of WWII.

On the subject of the war, Americans fought and died by the droves in the Solomonsl to prevent an invasion of Australia by the Japanese. At least that's what history generally says. Australians gave the US the most support other than South Korea during Vietnam.

I don't know too much about Australian geography but I think Perth was the most vulnerable. I've heard that Perth is geographically isolated and small enough where everybody knows your business. Is there any truth to that?

Maybe I said this before but my friend was stationed in Australia and said you could be waiting in a long queue and the other people would strike up friendly banter with you. Americans generally keep to themselves. In the US nowadays you just don't know where people are coming from. You might have a friendly enough conversation with someone and not know that they hold deeply racist views.

I'm sure transgender's can shoot as accurately as anybody else and it's not like they're going to be somewhat protected from seeing action like some female soldiers are (if I'm not mistaken) I haven't been following it too much. Does anybody know if the military plans on having the transgenders live in the same barracks with whatever gender they identify with?

 

[alasdairm]

i am comforted by just assuming that people who think that way will be reincarnated as transgender individuals and they’ll spend a miserable second lifetime being told by people like themselves that something they know to be true with every fiber of their being is just stupid and not real...

maybe you missed it b_p but i'd be interested in an answer to my question: why do you think people hate? especially when it's somebody they've never met and about whom they know very little?

alasdair

 

[Blue_Phlame]

alasdair, i'm detecting Buddhist vibes from both you and spacejunk by the way you guys phrase yourselves. And from what I can tell, you guys don't seem to favor neither good nor evil, and believe that overcoming both good and evil will lead to something worthwhile. I feel that direction is both wrong and evil, and therefore we may not reach a compromise in our ways of thinking.

I can't answer your question ali, because I can't speak for other people. I can only share what I learned from others, and tell you how I feel about things. Another reason I didn't answer your question, because I believe you are leading away from the topic. And when both you and spacejunk talk about other people who hate, you are generalizing into abstraction. Speak about specific people or give examples of these hateful groups so we can have a rational discussion about them, and not philosophizing about some hateful people who hate. I don't think a single person in this thread or forum hates transgender people, and I think its presumptuous to think that people who argue contrary to transgender issues are hateful.

 

[zephyr]

I don't know too much about Australian geography but I think Perth was the most vulnerable. I've heard that Perth is geographically isolated and small enough where everybody knows your business. Is there any truth to that?

YES. The SAS here is very insular, everyone knows everyone. Everyone over east knows the Perth mob. There is no chance of keeping private lives private. All the families know each other. The army housing and barracks are not private. There is no keeping anything private at all here.



Trust me. The SAS have married into my friendship group and its gossip central man!