Gnostic Christianity MEGATHREAD

[AddictRecon]

I don't believe in god, I think it's an insane concept with absolutely no evidence backing it.

What evidence would convince you God exists?

 

[psy997]

But not all suffering is man made. People with terrible diseases, are you saying those were somehow inflicted by the destructive behavior of people? For the record, I don't believe in god, I think it's an insane concept with absolutely no evidence backing it.

I'm unsure what you're asking here. You don't seem to have understood the message I was conveying with my last post.

You fail to see God because of your preconceptions. You look and will never find so long as you look in the way you do. A widening of perspective is needed, a paradigm shift in visualization and perception. Re-read my post.

God is ultimately a singularity, an infinite but singular energy, from that place expanding into the outer/farther manifestations that we experience now, as physical humans, and then taking another course back, eventually returning. God is a process, god is a flow, god is a way of being, a way of action, and a wave of movement, evolution and change. God is everything. But, initially and ultimately, god is also one thing or no-thing; alpha and omega, beginning and end. Thus, the idea that the phenomena of suffering is an indication of the character - if such a concept of character or any other categorization or label could even be ascribed upon such a force/energy/flow - of god, is again, null, void, and illogical. It is an inane and futile question to ask or assertion to make, it has no bearing in reality. Suffering occurs because suffering occurs. There are many levels to look at this, and reasons for why suffering does occur, but that is not even necessary. You cannot ascribe such an ephemeral concept onto such an infinite, unending, and inherently ineffable process.

Do you require elaboration?

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

^ the passages from mark and Luke are completely out of context, and ignore what the Jewish leaders were doing in using their oral Torah above the written Torah: extra rules for cleanliness and rituals, making donations to the temple above taking care of your parents etc. Christ said he is the fulfillment of the written law. Logos made flesh. Christ came to midrash the Torah. Even while being crucified he is singing psalms. Is Jesus our master or our servant. At first the apostles see him as master, then Jesus washes their feet, then Jesus calls them his friends. If your master is your friend he will give his life for you

If your master is your friend??

A friend will not make himself your master, to begin with, nor will he ask you to ignore that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs youhave done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them,--- is immoral.

A moral friend would remind you of these.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear theiniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, andthe wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The sonshall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for theiniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself,and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

You can ignore scriptures all you like but do not try to say that Jesus would. If you do, I will sick my Bishop on you.



As to that quote. Ignore it if you like but there are a number of them that say the same thing.

Isaiah 56:11) "They areshepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way,each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for theday of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORDoccupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9)& (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between therighteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I so fundamentally disagree with this statement that I'm confused as to how you could make it. Is this what Christians really believe? I've never read the bible but I've read lots of quotes from it and listened to lots of Christians talk very attentively.

The apostles creed and the stupid Trinity concept force all Christians to believe that Jesus' Father is Yahweh.

I agree with you that to tie Jesus, an archetypal good man mythical character to Yahweh, a genocidal son murdering prick of a God to Jesus is to insult Jesus.

It is a good thing that there is more than one Jesus shown in the bible. The best being the Gnostic Christian Jesus whom I quote often.

I don't think GB is a good example of the Gnostic Christian perspective having read many of his posts and scratched my head and I very much enjoy the Gnostic perspective from what little I've read about it.

I am a WIP. Most do not recognize that in growing a love of mankind, a person will also grow his hate of what inhibits all men from loving each other.

To me, the main culprit against universal love are organized religions and governments that have become corrupted. Today, that means most religions and governments.

That conflict, love/hate of my fellow religionists is created by my love pushing my hate and that has an effect on what I write and how I write it. My passion to do my duty to mankind is a harsh task master and that makes me more of a fundamental religionist than most.

As John Lennon said, the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian and I expect those who use a part of my label to shape up morally or see me show the reason that Christians killed my sort the moment they gained political power. Because they could not justify their immoral genocidal son murdering God.

No offense intended GB. If you've ever experienced a fraction of the love that is available to us in every living breathing moment I think you'd be skeptical about the OT's attribution of YHWH as God. I can dig up some quotes that make this explicit if you like.

No offence taken my friend.
Like any good fundamental Gnostic Christen, I cannot be offended, by anything other than having my argument refuted. Only fundamental Christians can be offended as they cannot argue for Yahweh, who is as vile as you seem to think. The proper verdict to all moral people.

Just to clarify my statement of not being able to be offended by anything other than having my argument refuted.

I should tell you that I debate to lose arguments. That way I might learn someth8ing new. One of the great pleasures in life.
If I win an argument, I gain nothing and my interlocutor wins if he recognizes his loss. Most Christians remain less intelligent because they do not know to take the win because they see it as a loss. This aside.

I did experienced a fraction of the love that is available to us in every living breathing moment, nice description BTW, on the day of my apotheosis, minus the divine part of how that is defined. I would call it happiness instead of love but love was certainly a part of what I found. Then again, I was late in life to know how to love and hate.

You are likely right in that I am a poor example of a Gnostic Christian. With that in mind, you will know that I am teaming up with a better Gnostic Christian than I for an ask a Gnostic O.P.

I will invite you to it when we are up and running.

Does Jesus ever explicitly state YHWH is God in the NT? If not perhaps there is a bit of extrapolation going on.

Jesus never states that he is Yahweh.

Jesus said, seek God. He never said seek me.
He also said, do not call me good, no one is good except God.

I think the church wrote that in because they did not want people to call Jesus the good, or God, God the good, because those were Chrestian designations for God and Jesus. The church wanted to further themselves from Chrestianity, which was a Gnostic Chrestian or Christian religion.

Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

Jesus never states that he is Yahweh.

Jesus said, seek God. He never said seek me.
He also said, do not call me good, no one is good except God.

I think the church wrote that in because they did not want people to call Jesus the good, or God, God the good, because those were Chrestian designations for God and Jesus. The church wanted to further themselves from Chrestianity, which was a Gnostic Chrestian or Christian religion.

Regards
DL

Jesus said no ones comes to God except through Him, and explicitly states that all Judgement is through His authority which God has put in His control.

You can mischaracterize Christ all you want but you are just inventing a false Jesus to suit your personal beliefs, a Jesus that never existed.

The term 'gnostic Christian' is an oxymoron, as Christianity is fundamentally antithetical to gnosticism.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Isn't Yahweh the biblical god though?

Bible God is the Jewish God that they call YHVH. "The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name.".

http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

YHVH is an androgynous God and is bible God even though the church has tried to take all the feminine out of scriptures. The feminie does not suit the Christian God of War, I guess.

Can you prove that you are not God incarnated through the various resources of physics that give light to your reflection?

Yes. If it is bible God we are talking about. Proof is in that you and I are better than that supernatural God is. As we can do things he cannot. I was working on this for a later o.p Have a look.
Can you accept that Man is greater than God?
We can think. God cannot.
We can reproduce true. God cannot.
We can have many children. God cannot.
We place the lives of our wives and families above our own.God does not.
We would cure instead of kill. God kills.
We do not torture babies. God does.
We believe in freedom. God does not.
Jesus does which is why he took the judgement seat from HisFather.
You can continue to adore a God inferior to you, bothintellectually and morally, or become a Gnostic Christian or Karaite Jew likeJesus was. Jesus the Good as the Chrestians used to call him beforeChristianity reared it’s ugly head by reading their myths literally and embracetheir God of War.
Islam would be a better religion today if that had notforced Mohammad to change from a loving God to a God or War so as to fight firewith fire. Thanks Christians for Islam. Pardon the digression.
Jesus shows the way with his advice to seek God by closetingyourself. Are you ready to follow Jesus or will you stick with your lyingpriests, preachers, Rabbi’s and Imams?
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if thereforethine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man loveme, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come untohim, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also didpredestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be thefirstborn among many brethren.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded[/URL]

A lot of really great quotes, some of which even I have seen before. I draw inspiration from them. Christ the consciousness and Jesus the man are both important to me and nobody likes to feel like their beliefs are blasphemous. Only Matthew 1:23 directly addresses my question though. All others give support to that assertion in some form. Is Immanuel = Yahweh? Is that what the O.T says? Thanks for taking the time to address my questions.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man loveme, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come untohim, and make our abode with him.

Regardless of the name of the Father, Jesus tells us where he waits for us. Just where Christian iconography says he is. In our minds. That is why Gnostic Christians seek within and are rewarded better than Christians.

I still think this is debatable having read your reply which is soundly based in scripture. You presuppose continuity between O.T and N.T which again is an assumption that must be carefully evaluated. Unless of course the N.T says explicitly "I am Jesus Christ, God of the O.T, Yahweh incarnate" or something like that in which case I'll back down. I don't know enough to say.

Lord lord, why have you forsaken me.

Me me, why have I forsaken me.

Would Jesus call himself Lord? The Trinity concept is ridiculous and Christianity should have left Mary as the third Goddess of the original Trinity but their misogynous zeal would not let them. Bastards.

If we assume YHWH is a demiurge god, which Gnostics believed before Jesus Christ was born ( see Nag Hammadi scrolls), then Jesus comes and saves us from that belief and reveals a much kinder, compassionate God that leads us towards salvation.

Yes. Except that we do not need salvation as the God we envisage, a good Jesus archetype, never condemns his children. That would be evil as Gnostic Christians are Universalists who have tied equality to righteousness. The salvific aspect of Gnosis is to be saved from poor thinking. All the Gods live in the minds of people. Your mind is the only place your God can be found. That is an irrefutable fact, regardless of your God or ideal.

Your narrative is mostly accurate except is doesn't confuse Gods. That's a narrative I can embrace. I can find support for this in many different text that are old. Maybe not O.T old but old nonetheless. We also must question how the Bible was assembled as a collection of written works to the exclusion of others.

We have four main gospels because some Christian fool, whose name I have forgotten, said it should be so because we had four seasons.

The rest, the best, was discarded because idol worship had made stupid Christian believers, even more stupid, so things had to be dumbed down. Lets thank all the Gods that Christians are no longer stupid, save the literalists.

New age is also a term that must be wielded carefully. The new age deception is real. As a blanket term to dismiss anything non biblical it is like trump calling facts fake news. It doesn't evaluate the various narratives which are numerous on a case-by-case basis.

Careful my friend. You begin to sound like a Gnostic Christian. As John Lennon said. The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. Your, superior to them morality, will make you hated by them.

Gnostics overwhelmingly are ignorant to the fact that the 'nice guy' image of Christ comes intertwined with the very Christ who is also going to judge the earth, remember, Christ is the one who decides who goes to hell (Joh 5:22), He is also the one who will destroy the wicked from the face of the earth, sound familiar? Because its not the first time Hes done it.

If all else fails, losers revert to throwing the false guilt and fear cards.



Your God torture and kills innocent babies.

Justify that or see Yahweh end in the hell you believe in.

Never was much of a fan of Richard Dawkins, but that quote pretty well sums it up. Let's just hope then that Jesus Christ stays nice if he's YHWH as you say. That's why I'm not Christian. Still love Christ though. Spent years reading A Course in Miracles, which I know, I know, is blasphemous, but that Christ is a shining example of love and forgiveness. Thanks again for the quotes and stuff.

Here's a few I like:

I like.

We have yet to learn the limits of what oue DNA can do. It looks like there is a lot of new evidence that shows that our reality is stranger than we think. Not supernaturally strange, that is for losers, but more on the lines of controlling sub-atomic particles and chatting, so to speak, with our DNA.


″You are the work of God, and His work is wholly lovable and wholly loving. -------- You are the light of the world living in heaven.

This is how a man must think of himself in his heart, because this is what he is.” III.3-4 ------- Heaven or hell are in your own mind.



“God is not partial. ------ Gnostic Christianity says rightness is not possible without equality.

All His children have His total Love, and all His gifts are freely given to everyone alike.” ------ Love for us God cannot help. God's respect, we have to earn.



When I [Jesus] said, “I am with you always,” I meant it literally. ----- Gnostic Christians recognize that given spark of God. We must waken the Dragon within us though with Gnosis.

I am not absent to anyone in any situation. ------- Unto death.

Because I am always with you, you are the way and the truth and the light. ------- After Gnosis and apotheosis. Jacob's ladder.

You did not make this power, any more than I did. ------- Nature is the culprit.

It was created to be shared and therefore cannot be meaningfully perceived as

belonging to anyone at the expense of another. ------- I do not agree with this as nature creates for the best possible end and for all nature knows, man, the controlling species, may find a use for ownership.

Such a perception makes it meaningless by eliminating or overlooking its real and only meaning. ------- This I do not quite understand.

I would have thought Christians would seek to distance themselves from that OT malevolent bully. The OT deity is indefensible imo, any worship of such is the worship of all those things Dawkins (also not a huge fan) details. I think its right to try an counteract and vehemently criticize any who support this monster.

Jesus, otoh, seems to value gentleness and love, and while I don't believe he was divine, I can get behind those teachings. The world has always needed those qualities. Now, perhaps, more than ever.

I agree.

It is a shame that Rome created such an immoral Jesus which Christianity sold instead of the gnostic Jesus that is still in the scriptures that show the best ways and means to find true spirituality. Gnostic Christian Jesus was in a sense killed by Rome. Nice that the biblical scribes were bright enough to put some of the pertinent gnostic Christian ideology is some of the scriptures.

Rome likely never proof read the bible. They only found the danger of Gnostic Christians later and Constantine had his new church decimate us and many other Mystery schools and burn our myths and wisdom books. So much for freedom of religion. A Christian icon.

I'm not an expert on prayers for sick and suffering children. I mean, I've heard of sick and suffering children going to faith healers and experiencing healings. That's a thing right. Happens everyday. Not sure if you believe it or not. That said, I agree with you that there have been prayers for sick and suffering children that went unanswered. Not sure why but theres a big picture I can't fully see. You'd have to get to the bottom of that yourself with a little research. Personally, I'm happy for my sister and find comparisons of worthiness to receive the benefits of prayer to be a bit reactionary.

Prayer is ok for some things but lest we forget Jehovah Witness children who died for want of a transfusion while the parents prayed.
I recommend meditation more than prayer but if one thinks one is gaining something by prayer t6hen they should follow that bliss.

I just pray that they find Gods better than Yahweh, Roman Jesus Allah to pray to. None of those are worthy of any moral person.

I have no clue what you are talking about.. there is no 'course in miracles' written by Jesus Christ. There is no 'Aquarian Gospel' either, the synoptic gospels are Matthew, Mark, and Luke, with the fourth Gospel account of John.

You might be into some newage stuff, but that has nothing to do with Christianity.

Did you see above why you only have 4 main gospels. Crazy Christians eh?

Gnostic Christianity is not new age. It is old age and will bring seeking God back into vogue because it will show the thinking world just how vile the mainstream Gods are.

The old and stupid Christianity won the God Wars and nearly did us in, but now we live in a world of words and not swords and Christianity will fall even faster than it has in the last few years as . Telligent Christians will flock to Gnostic Christians for the good advice Christians did not like when Christians were more stupid than today. Save literalists.

What about the Gospel of Thomas? That is some potent stuff right there! It may be non-canonical, but it speaks more strongly to me than much of the NT.

Potent?

Indeed. Put together, the Gnostic myth and ideology is potent against Christianity for sure. Potent to the point of toxic and that is why they decimated us. Our arguments were toxic and antithetic to Christianity because they preach full equality for all and that did not suit the homophobic, intolerant and misogynous rulers and clergy. You cannot hold power without the masses giving you power to act and both the government of the day and the religions wanted scapegoats to punish so as to keep the population cowed and afraid. Bastards.

The Gospel of Thomas is widely recognized as a fake, and what it teaches is antithetical to Christianity. In fact, most would say its the first attempt to discredit Christianity. Fortunately, the early Church leaders recognized it as a fraudulent attempt to poison Christianity. Gnosticism is antithetical to Christianity, and it shares the same status as any other cult mentality in our view.

Bart Ehrman argues the Gospel of Thomas is a 2^nd Century Gnostic text based on the lack of any reference to the coming Kingdom of God and return of Jesus. The earliest leaders of the Church also recognized the Gospel of Thomas was a late, inauthentic, heretical work. Hipploytus identified it as a fake and a heresy in “Refutation of All Heresies” (222-235AD), Origen referred to it in a similar way in a homily (written around 233AD), Eusebius resoundingly rejected it as an absurd, impious and heretical “fiction” in the third book of his “Church History” (written prior to 326AD), Cyril advised his followers to avoid the text as heretical in his “Catechesis” (347-348AD), and Pope Gelasius included the Gospel of Thomas in his list of heretical books in the 5th century. (J. Warner Wallace)

LOL. Fake.

Have you read what Bart says about the bible.

Regardless if fake or not, all scriptures are fake in the sense that we do not have any primary documentation for many years after the so called sacrifice of a Jesus/God who cannot die. Any slight Christian glitch.

One of the oldest works thou do show how Christianity highjack what I think is a Gnostic Chriestian, now Gnostic Christian, document.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rAt-PAkgqls

You're clearly non interested in engaging in a friendly debate with me on this topic. You restate my own perspective and admissions as non-existent when I've taken the time to frame it very clearly and you restate your own as being representative of Christianity and you ignore any challenge at the scripture level. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion but thanks again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

When two belief systems meet, a fight is inevitable. The quality of thinking from the best belief will always irritate the one with the lesser position. Especially when logic and reason and proper morals meet poor morals and faith.

Martin Luther. “Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, thegreatest enemy that faith has.”

If God is not an interventionist, doesn't that make prayer completely pointless?(other than as a psychological tool to help one feel better) And if God doesn't intervene, then how did god take away your sister's nicotine addiction?

I put something above on the power of the mind but have you heard of bio feedback and placebo effect? Tobacco is an addiction. Addiction is connected to a low dopamine count. The pleasure center produce dopamine. If the lady enjoys praying, it releases dopamine and reduces the cravings and eventually the addiction.

Does Jesus claim to support that tyrant though and its beliefs? His teachings are quite different. I guess I was being generous, for me I totally disregard Jesus and the OT god too. Its simpler.

You seem to imagine that your truth is the only truth. Hence, you continually have people here actively cease discussion with you because there is really no wiggle room in your views. Its like talking to a brick wall. You don't wish to discuss but impose your certainty on others. Its pretty tiresome. Here's a thought; maybe you're wrong? Maybe you've been tricked into supporting an evil god. If its the OT god, you are supporting petty evil.

The OT god seems remarkably jealousy and childish, with intensely human concerns. It makes me think this god is really just a construct of humans.

The way I read the Roman Jesus, he was as immoral as Yahweh.

The way I read the Gnostic Jesus, I can see why we called him Jesus the good in the old days.

Yahweh was in Gnostic Christian Jesus' view unworthy of us.

This is easily gleaned from Jesus when he prevented the stoning of a man on the Sabbath. He said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. This extrapolates to religions and Gods were made for man, not man for them.

Jesus did not believe in a God out there. He believed in a God in here.
GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] becomeacquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are thesons of the living Father.
But if youwill not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are thatpoverty."

My sister prayed to Jesus Christ, son of God. I'm not aligned with the Christian perspective outlined here that God and Christ are entirely interchangeable. In a sense Christ is God, but Christ did not create God. With that prayer she accomplished a number of things 1) she set her free will to a clearly stated goal. 2) she opened herself up to receive the the help of Christ and all forces aligned with Christ be they angels, guides, guardians, ascended masters, etc, etc who look after humanity while respecting free will 3) she called upon one who can dispel darkness. It's a powerful act. You don't have to believe it but that's how I understand it. I'm not the only one saying stuff like this BTW. We're not alone. We have a whole support system. Prayer is the medium by which we express this.

I strongly promote meditation. It worked to help me push my apotheosis. A shame I cannot get as deeply into it anymore.
God does not need to speak to a person many times.

While Im certainly not the only one here expressing my 'truth', Ive noticed alot of others here doing the same, yet its only a problem when I do, specifically on the topic of Jesus, which I find interesting.

..

Do you find this presentation intelligent or something else?



Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus incarnated through the line of David, ..

The line is carried by the sperm. God does not have invisible flying sperm..

Further, Jesus was what, the 6th. so called born of a virgin guy?

Why did Pontius Pilate always pick up the bad and negative association as he did offer to the people who thus thy wish to crucify barabbas or jesus and they elected to crucify the son of the carpenter but did he not give the people the choice and they elected to save the murderer did they not ??

If you seek perfect thought on religion, ------

Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1 Therefore leaving the principles of thedoctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again thefoundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, andof laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternaljudgment.

Why you might ask.
Isaiah 56:11) "They areshepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way,each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for theday of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORDoccupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9)& (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between therighteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away thekey of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering inye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through yourtradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

If you go inside.

Exactly, I place the motive for Christs death squarely on the Jews,

Rome won the God wars and you believe what the victors wanted you to believe.

What evidence would convince you God exists?

What evidence would convince you that a book that begins with a talking serpent, a taking donkey and a water walking man/God can walk on water yet can die when God cannot die?

Or simply stated, what would convince you that the supernatural is a delusion?

Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

Gnostic Bishop, considering you don't believe in the same Christianity I don't believe in, and your characterization of Christ is found no where in history, let alone the Bible, I'm not sure there is even a conversation to be had. It's honestly much easier to let you misrepresent the Bible as some sort of straw man argument, and then agree with you that the straw man you've erected is in fact false. In fact, you are doing my work for me, and for that I am grateful, I cant thank you enough for giving me the platform to share this. Considering how small and irrelevant Gnosticism is, I don't think anyone could do a better job of disproving what you believe than you already have.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Gnostic Bishop, considering you don't believe in the same Christianity I don't believe in, and your characterization of Christ is found no where in history, let alone the Bible, I'm not sure there is even a conversation to be had. It's honestly much easier to let you misrepresent the Bible as some sort of straw man argument, and then agree with you that the straw man you've erected is in fact false. In fact, you are doing my work for me, and for that I am grateful, I cant thank you enough for giving me the platform to share this. Considering how small and irrelevant Gnosticism is, I don't think anyone could do a better job of disproving what you believe than you already have.

Thanks for ending with whining, lies and distortions to hide the fact that you cannot argue for your genocidal son murdering God.

You also, unfortunately, continue to support an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion.

It is I who can't thank you enough for giving me the platform to share this. Considering how small and irrelevant Gnosticism is, I don't think anyone could do a better job of allowing me to show all here your poor moral sense.

Morality is the key to spirituality and your key is defective.



Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

Thanks for ending with whining, lies and distortions to hide the fact that you cannot argue for your genocidal son murdering God.

You also, unfortunately, continue to support an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion.

It is I who can't thank you enough for giving me the platform to share this. Considering how small and irrelevant Gnosticism is, I don't think anyone could do a better job of allowing me to show all here your poor moral sense.

Morality is the key to spirituality and your key is defective.

Regards
DL

At least you agree that Gnosticism is small and irrelevant.

What is your morality? You seem to base most of what you believe on youtube videos.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

At least you agree that Gnosticism is small and irrelevant.

What is your morality? You seem to base most of what you believe on youtube videos.

My morality shows yours to be satanic. Go away.

I am done with you.

Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

My morality shows yours to be satanic. Go away.

I am done with you.

Regards
DL

You haven't really demonstrated what moral foundation you appeal to. Satan, in Christianity, is called the deceiver, or the adversary, we view Satan as antithetical to the Judeo Christian faith, he represents evil of the highest order.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Ah, the travails of posting on a web forum. The truth is, I just find your condescending tone towards people and aggressive content to be offputting. I respect that you're trying to get a message across, and I even agree with it more or less in many cases. But surely you've heard the saying that you catch more flies with honey? When you conduct yourself in aggressive and insulting ways, people stop listening, and you're just swinging the pendulum because it creates more negativity in the opposite direction which only further empowers the opposition to feel more strongly their way. To me the goal is to stop it swinging at all. I was criticizing you, yes, because when you lead with personal attacks it detracts from your argument. Calling someone a child is unmistakably condescending and no one respects the message when it is being condescended to them. Criticism is different from personal attacks. Nowhere have I denigraded you. Or if I have in some other thread, I apologize and was probably just aggravated, we all make mistakes.

If I'm being honest I usually have a hard time responding to your OPs because they read like sensationalist news headlines, the kind that lead to people in the comments section telling each other how wrong the other one is. It doesn't provoke an atmosphere of even discourse, but instead one in which people lash out back and forth because they feel offended. I'm not trying to offend you with this post, it's just my feeling about it over time. If you want better discussion in your threads, maybe adjust your tact a bit.

If this were the inquisition times and people were trying to kill you, I would feel differently, but no one is trying to kill you (or so I assume anyway). Maybe it would help to frame your arguments in a way that highlights what gnostic christianity could do in a positive sense, instead of focusing on inflaming people who don't agree with you. Be an ambassador. Otherwise you're part of everyone else who is trying to ram their views down the throats of nonbelievers.

A Gnostic Christian has two things that apotheosis teaches him he must do. Promote the good of Gnostic Christianity and fight against the immoral creeds that he encounters.

I gain nothing by winning an argument against brain dead and morally compromised Christians.

My hope is that women and gays will win something by having an impact on the lurkers who can judge morals.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed intointolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grownthemselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoralways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works anddeeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as hispeople, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudlycontinuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

Anyone can take the bible out of context to make it say what they want, which I believe is what you are doing on this forum, primarily.

I specifically set my mind to studying the scriptures, and the things you say make zero sense. Its like you read a few passages of the bible out of context and then defined the rest of the bible based on those bad contextual extrapolations.

Its not only dishonest, but reprehensible in terms of an honest critique. From what ive read of your posts, it shows how little of the bible youve actually read or seem to understand, and I honestly dont think youve read that much of it.

I do not expect to make much sense to a guy like you who loves a genocidal son murdering prick of a God while calling such a prick good.

I cannot shine my light on you while you hide in a labyrinth of evil. Say hi to your friend Satan for me.

Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

A Gnostic Christian has two things that apotheosis teaches him he must do. Promote the good of Gnostic Christianity and fight against the immoral creeds that he encounters.

I gain nothing by winning an argument against brain dead and morally compromised Christians.

My hope is that women and gays will win something by having an impact on the lurkers who can judge morals.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed intointolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grownthemselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoralways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works anddeeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as hispeople, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudlycontinuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.




I do not expect to make much sense to a guy like you who loves a genocidal son murdering prick of a God while calling such a prick good.

I cannot shine my light on you while you hide in a labyrinth of evil. Say hi to your friend Satan for me.

Regards
DL

I don't know Satan, we consider him evil and do not attempt to talk to him, perhaps you might ask someone else.

Christiantiy is fundamentally opposed to Gnosticism, not sure why you use the words together.. It's like saying "I'm a Christian Atheist".. makes no sense.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am a WIP. Most do not recognize that in growing a love of mankind, a person will also grow his hate of what inhibits all men from loving each other.

To me, the main culprit against universal love are organized religions and governments that have become corrupted. Today, that means most religions and governments.

That conflict, love/hate of my fellow religionists is created by my love pushing my hate and that has an effect on what I write and how I write it. My passion to do my duty to mankind is a harsh task master and that makes me more of a fundamental religionist than most.

I like how you've handled that. You're showing a side of yourself these last few threads I haven't seen in some of your earlier posts. I understand your anger towards Christianity and Islam but starting a bunch of threads where you try to get people to arrive at the same conclusion as yourself surreptitiously without stating clearly your own beliefs or showing your more personable side... it was a big turn off for me. It was like you were preaching to a room full of Christians trying to get them to see the light, when most people here aren't Christians at all. That said, I like that you can take the feedback and I misunderstood you to some extent. I better understand where you are coming from now. You haven't said much about what Gnostic Christianity is, but have said a lot about what it isn't. If it was in some of your earlier posts and videos I missed it because I was suspicious of your message. I personally don't really need much more convincing at this point that Yahweh is a demiurgic ruler.

I watched a few of your videos today and gotta say I generally like the message. Doesn't mean I agree with all of it.

Bishop John Shelby Spong is a great speaker. I was inspired by him. There is very little he said I disagree with. It was really interesting what he said about the age of various chapters in Genesis and how they aren't necessarily in chronological order as far as the date they were written. Never heard that before. He said one thing that irked me a bit related to ascension. To me ascension is an accepted part of the dynamics of incarnation. His characterization of ascension discredited the concept by discrediting the subset of people that do not understand ascension and take the word more literally. Ascension has a precise meaning. Of course people disagree about details, but that's not surprising. He then goes on to describe the emergence phenomena in biological systems. This emergence is completely inseparable from ascension when you really listen to what people are saying about it. Anyways, that said, I'll check out some more videos of his because I like how he talks and explains things. It'll help me better understand the Gnostic Christian perspective I'm assuming. That's something I'm interested in. My background in Gnosticism came mostly from the Nag Hammadi scrolls particularly as relates to the demiurge, Archons, the Aeons, the feminine principle (the emergence of Sophia the divine feminine), etc. These are ideas that live on in many of the spiritual teachings that are most important and resonant with me. Since these came before Christ, I'm curious how these have combined together in the Gnostic Christian perspective

If we assume YHWH is a demiurge god, which Gnostics believed before Jesus Christ was born ( see Nag Hammadi scrolls), then Jesus comes and saves us from that belief and reveals a much kinder, compassionate God that leads us towards salvation.

Yes. Except that we do not need salvation as the God we envisage, a good Jesus archetype, never condemns his children. That would be evil as Gnostic Christians are Universalists who have tied equality to righteousness. The salvific aspect of Gnosis is to be saved from poor thinking. All the Gods live in the minds of people. Your mind is the only place your God can be found. That is an irrefutable fact, regardless of your God or ideal.

Yes, that is a good point and I agree. I'm not a salvationist; I would rather have chosen a different word. You know those Chinese handcuffs you put your fingers in and the harder you pull apart the more stuck you get. That was humanity when Jesus arrived. Jesus did show us a way out of the seeming puzzle, but the Chinese handcuffs were never a real threat. Just the belief in being stuck and an inability to see beyond our own confusions. Only in that sense did Jesus save us from Yahweh.

I strongly promote meditation. It worked to help me push my apotheosis. A shame I cannot get as deeply into it anymore.
God does not need to speak to a person many times.

Me too. I meditate daily. To me meditation deepens multidimensional awareness. Prayer is the means of communication with the reality that is revealed.

It was created to be shared and therefore cannot be meaningfully perceived as

belonging to anyone at the expense of another. ------- I do not agree with this as nature creates for the best possible end and for all nature knows, man, the controlling species, may find a use for ownership.

Such a perception makes it meaningless by eliminating or overlooking its real and only meaning. ------- This I do not quite understand.

I liked you commentary on the quotes. The last bit there can be explained by the following metaphor. In the material world, if you give you friend a slice of pizza that is one less slice of pizza for yourself. Things like ideas and love grow by sharing. It is a complete misunderstanding of love to treat it like a slice of pizza in the hopes of keeping more for yourself. This perception makes love meaningless.

Don't think I addressed everything but I ready for bed now. Cheers.

 

[swilow]

Exactly, I place the motive for Christs death squarely on the Jews, .]

You and billions of others. In truth, you should thank the Jews. Didn't Jesus's death open the gates of paradise? Wasn't he sent down to die, by god, his own father? How can anyone be blamed for doing gods will?

More theology that really makes no sense when examined.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

levels

Just two quick issues.

On ascension.
A gnostic Christians does not so much ascend as in-scension.

I do not think that is a word but Gnosis is what I am talking about and following the more mystical Gnostic Jesus and his way to perfect wisdom.

Two of those ways of thought.

First.
Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Second.
GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] becomeacquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are thesons of the living Father.
But if youwill not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are thatpoverty."
------------------


Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if thereforethine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man loveme, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come untohim, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinateto be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn amongmany brethren.

---------------

You have to ascend into your own mind and access your right hemisphere. Therein lies Gnosis and apotheosis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

You and billions of others. In truth, you should thank the Jews. Didn't Jesus's death open the gates of paradise? Wasn't he sent down to die, by god, his own father? How can anyone be blamed for doing gods will?

More theology that really makes no sense when examined.

The Christian Exeltet hymn even calls Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to have Jesus' death have meaning.

Yet they still call Eden where man fell even though it was a happy and necessary fall.

Christian thinking is ass backwards.

Regards
DL

 

[Jabberwocky]

On ascension.
A gnostic Christians does not so much ascend as in-scension.

that's exactly it. It's a de-scension of the heavens into the embodied form and concurrently an in-scension. A progressive healing of the illusion of separation through the embodiment of a higher divine template.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

that's exactly it. It's a de-scension of the heavens into the embodied form and concurrently an in-scension. A progressive healing of the illusion of separation through the embodiment of a higher divine template.

I think you have it.

Let us pray that all get it.

Regards
DL