2017 Trump Presidency Thread

[spacejunk]

Impeached - for what? Charged - for what?

Some people are saying "treason"

Hard to argue against, in that he's attempting a coup.

I'm so sick of hearing about persecution of gay people (outside of Saudi Arabia & Iran).

Because in Saudi & Iran it is illegal to be gay and if you are caught then you are then dealt with accordingly by the government.
This is real persecution.

So you don't care about gay rights in countries where it isn't illegal to be homorsexual?

It's obvious that trump is dogwhistling his foolish fanbase with the ban on trans people serving in the military.
It really says more than any conversation with a trump person ever could. It's that sort of guff that shores up support certain sections of the community.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

What "Liberals" don't get is that Trump is the most liberal president we've ever had, and true Liberals no longer align themselves with what is now the "Left" or more specifically the Democratic Party. The DNC has proven time and again that they operate in opposition to true liberal values. If you do not see this then you are a partisan ideologue, and quite frankly a danger to a progressive society. Sometimes we have to admit that we were wrong and that people we admired are actually shit, and also vice versa (instead of invoking Godwin's Law or the Goldwater Rule to convince ourselves that Trump is Orange Nuclear Hitler)

Even if you go with the libertarian version of liberal, you have a president who appointed someone who has severe problems with pot smokers as AG, and who just banned transgendered people from the military because ... well, because ... Who knows? He's not libertarian liberal.

If you go with the economic version of liberal, he's against free trade. He's not economically liberal.

If you go with a progressive value of liberal, his plan for healthcare boils down to the classic "I've got mine so screw you". Not progressively liberal either.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Trump is the political version of a pickup artist, and Republicans — and America — went to bed with him convinced that he was something other than what he is. Trump inherited his fortune but describes himself as though he were a self-made man.

He has had a middling career in real estate and a poor one as a hotelier and casino operator but convinced people he is a titan of industry. He has never managed a large, complex corporate enterprise, but he did play an executive on a reality show. He presents himself as a confident ladies’ man but is so insecure that he invented an imaginary friend to lie to the New York press about his love life and is now married to a woman who is open and blasé about the fact that she married him for his money. He fixates on certain words (“negotiator”) and certain classes of words (mainly adjectives and adverbs, “bigly,” “major,” “world-class,” “top,” and superlatives), but he isn’t much of a negotiator, manager, or leader. He cannot negotiate a health-care deal among members of a party desperate for one, can’t manage his own factionalized and leak-ridden White House, and cannot lead a political movement that aspires to anything greater than the service of his own pathetic vanity.

He wants to be John Wayne, but what he is is “Woody Allen without the humor.” Peggy Noonan, to whom we owe that observation, has his number: He is soft, weak, whimpering, and petulant. He isn’t smart enough to do the job and isn’t man enough to own up to the fact.

Ouch. Those liberals can be hurtful. Especially the ones at the National Review.

 

[Scrofula]

^about time they barfed up the KoolAid. Those bastards were all on board after he won the nomination (but they quote Peggy Noonan non-ironically, still). I think they had a couple defections over it, but editorial staff still supported him.



Only exception I found was New Republic.

 

[alasdairm]

Unlike you who refuse to admit that there are things that you both agree on.

complete bullshit.

you must have a very short, highly selective memory as this was just three days ago (and you were the one who invited me to post the list):

he has:

• issued a ban on officials becoming lobbyists after leaving the govt.
• helped secure the release of aya hijazi
• he appointed mattis secretary of defense

Gay people under Trump live in the most liberal country in the world for homosexuals.

you really have to be kidding. i can think of 5 european countries off the top of my head which are more progressive than the u.s. on the subject of gay rights.

but i'll humour you - can you explain to me why you feel that the u.s. is more liberal than, say, the netherlands when it comes to homosexuals?

alasdair

 

[FLA]

I admit it. I'm brainwashed to the bone. But I'm frightened for your children. That the life that we are living is in vain. I won't be around here that much longer. I really wish you could have been around back in the day when things were so much different. Do not be deceived there will be a judgement and I fear the karmic illusions of the Bardo. This world has descended into a living hell realm. My relatives lived in Germany during WWII so I didn't have to get my definition of fascism from some book. Please don't waste your precious dwindling time left on earth to respond with your pseudo intellectual bullshit.

 

[Scrofula]

Well, I won't as long as you keep your cryptokarmo bardo bullshit out too.

 

[LiquidMethod]

Some people are saying "treason"

Some people say a lot of dumb shit. For an accusation as serious as that, we need to see actual evidence or at the very least a coherent explanation.

Hard to argue against, in that he's attempting a coup.

Laughable. He was elected fairly through the democratic process and he is actually facing a coup against him that is attempting to unseat him from power.

So you don't care about gay rights in countries where it isn't illegal to be homorsexual?

No. If it's legal and they are free to practice whatever they wish - then I do not care whether they feel offended that I have misgendered them or any other narcissistic silliness.

It's obvious that trump is dogwhistling his foolish fanbase with the ban on trans people serving in the military.
It really says more than any conversation with a trump person ever could. It's that sort of guff that shores up support certain sections of the community.

Obama lifted the ban - Trump reinstated the ban. This is a complicated subject and there are many arguments for and against, but I am personally on the side of doing what's best for the country, for the safety of everyone and not kowtowing to politically-correct nonsense for the sake of sparing feelings.

you really have to be kidding. i can think of 5 european countries off the top of my head which are more progressive than the u.s. on the subject of gay rights.
but i'll humour you - can you explain to me why you feel that the u.s. is more liberal than, say, the netherlands when it comes to homosexuals?

I may be wrong but you can you tell me exactly how/why those European countries are more progressive than the US? I'm going to call them at the very least equal.
Gay marriage is federally allowed, gay people often have parades in the streets, it is even law now in some places that it is illegal to misgender someone (in NY for example).
The LGBT community is beginning to hold a lot of sway over political or social matters in the US.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

I may be wrong but you can you tell me exactly how/why those European countries are more progressive than the US? I'm going to call them at the very least equal.

• Legal in many areas of the US to refuse to rent to someone or evict someone solely based on sexual orientation.
• Legal in many areas of the US to fire someone solely based on sexual orientation.

Discrimination in housing and employment due to sexual orientation is illegal all across the Netherlands.

 

[alasdairm]

^ yep.

the 2014 scotus ruling was a huge, fundamental step forward in terms of gay rights but the u.s. still has some way to go before one could reasonably describe it as "the most liberal country in the world for homosexuals" - a claim which does not stand up to even the most cursory analysis.

alasdair

 

[LiquidMethod]

Whooooo you got me there.
US is a big country. Some areas I would still say are more gay-friendly than Europe.

Anyway I'm more interested in the hysterical accusations of treason against the President.

 

[FLA]

Well, I won't as long as you keep your cryptokarmo bardo bullshit out too.

Okay you got a deal!

Just wanted to mention I got into a nasty fight with a millennial on Roger Water's FB page and because I know probably nobody is interested in the story I'll keep it brief. I ended up calling her a stupid cunt because the message we get from the top says that's okay. But I just said I loved the concert and probably would have gone regardless of Roger's views. But upon reflection I may be lying to myself about that. I also said I thought it was kinda funny when some people got mad when the Trump stuff started to happen, a couple guys near me started flipping Roger off and walked out and 2 people started fighting. My wife got scared because she was afraid they were going to come back with guns. This young lady said that was ridiculous. I told her with all the security, I agreed my wife's fears were unfounded but I have no control over my wife's fears. I apologized to her but she just kept badgering me. The reason I thought it was amusing was that how could any serious Floyd fan that hasn't been living under a rock not know Roger's views? Why did they even bother to come and spend their hard earned money? She said I blamed everything on my wife but I couldn't see how I had done that. I had to unblock this young lady so my wife could see her comments and asked my wife to answer me honestly, did I use you, in regards to the concert? My wife didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. I asked her to go because I didn't want to go alone. I'm embarrassed to be old and show my face in public alone. I feel like I failed by not staying young. At first she said "Roger Who?". Then she said okay but can I bring a book? When she used to go to concerts back in the day she often fell asleep and she is not a drug user at all. My wife started to recognize a few better known songs and connected the dots on who this geezer was. But knowing her attitude towards Trump I knew she would react with glee. So if that's using somebody then I am indeed guilty. I had told this millennial she hasn't been around long enough to know some things about how the world works, which I know now was disrespectful. Her FB profile says she's engaged and a single parent. She asked me to guess how old she was and although I thought about 34, I said 42 to piss her off. Turns out she's 31. It turns out you can't block someone you've unblocked for 48 hours so she just kept pestering me all day long yesterday. My wife basically told me if you respond to her, I will kill you.

My current feeling is why not just ignore the tweets and distractions and generally anything that comes out of his mouth and give Trump a fair chance? But 20 minutes from now I might feel totally different about it.

 

[spacejunk]

a millennial on Roger Water's FB page

I ended up calling her a stupid cunt

lol :D

My wife got scared because she was afraid they were going to come back with guns.

jesus man.
that's scary.
i didn't realise things were quite so bad. i mean - i have family in the USA, have been there a bunch of times and know the country well - but it sounds like you were concerned enough to take this thought seriously.
of course there is a lot of other context that could be taken into account here and whtanot - i don't know how serious the threat of gun violence is around you usually, but i'm assuming from your post that it's not the norm for you to worry about that sort of thing.

with a lot of the rhetoric being thrown around lately - and the fact that people have been shot, stabbed and beaten over political shit since trump's election - it's not surprising to hear this, but the fact that things were so tense and angry you'd feel that way, it's concerning.

i've been to some pretty intense political demonstrations, but nothing i expected to get shot or killed at. physical injury has always been a risk - police on horseback and with batons trying to smash through a picket can seriously fuck people up, and i've witnessed plenty of that - but you're talking about a concert by a guy in his 60s or 70s, with a 'hippie', counterculture background - the idea that he could say some things between songs that would piss people off so much that they'd make an aggressive scene and leave a show they'd paid to see - kinda speas volumes.

i've been to some pretty intense and menacing rock shows, as well - but i can't say i've witnessed anything like that before, and i go to about 5 or 6 gigs a month, and have done for years.
that's scary shit.
the fact that trump deliberately inflames the population just demonstrates his contempt for common people. there's no other word for it.

try not to let the trolls get to you. their modus operandi is to provoke you into saying unguarded things because you're so pissed off.
it's something trump has picked up from others, and others have been inspired to do by watching him. it's a big cycle of abusive wank.

i'm technically a millenial, but i don't think this is necessarily unreasonable -

I had told this millennial she hasn't been around long enough to know some things about how the world works, which I know now was disrespectful.

fuck it, she was (and continues to be) disrespectful and obnoxious to you - she doesn't know how some thngs work (political debate amongst them, presumably) and she probably never will.
i don't have much sympathy for anyone fighting trump's battles - but i will hear them out.
she's just trying to shut you up, by the sound of it.

incidentally, it's a shame to hear that you feel uncomfortable about your age - i used to have this idea that as people got older they grew more comfortable in their own skins, but that's obviously not the case for a lot of people.
i have a lot of friends that are a lot older than i am - quite a few that are around 65 - and friends who are around half my age, as well (all people i know through playing music, actually) and the older guys are always a hell of a lot of fun.

i've shared joints with a few older touring artists, and it's always a real pleasure to get the more senior musicians high

getting older is nothing to be ashamed of, i know i've used this line before - but getting old is way cooler than the alternative

 

[alasdairm]

scaramucci out.

he lasted a whole 10 days.

the fine tuned machine is humming along

alasdair

 

[spacejunk]

ha! already? blimey.
i hadn't even finished making Bohemian Rhapsody jokes...

 

[cduggles]

Spicy?

 

[FLA]

lol :D


jesus man.
that's scary.
i didn't realise things were quite so bad. i mean - i have family in the USA, have been there a bunch of times and know the country well - but it sounds like you were concerned enough to take this thought seriously.
of course there is a lot of other context that could be taken into account here and whtanot - i don't know how serious the threat of gun violence is around you usually, but i'm assuming from your post that it's not the norm for you to worry about that sort of thing.

with a lot of the rhetoric being thrown around lately - and the fact that people have been shot, stabbed and beaten over political shit since trump's election - it's not surprising to hear this, but the fact that things were so tense and angry you'd feel that way, it's concerning.

i've been to some pretty intense political demonstrations, but nothing i expected to get shot or killed at. physical injury has always been a risk - police on horseback and with batons trying to smash through a picket can seriously fuck people up, and i've witnessed plenty of that - but you're talking about a concert by a guy in his 60s or 70s, with a 'hippie', counterculture background - the idea that he could say some things between songs that would piss people off so much that they'd make an aggressive scene and leave a show they'd paid to see - kinda speas volumes.

i've been to some pretty intense and menacing rock shows, as well - but i can't say i've witnessed anything like that before, and i go to about 5 or 6 gigs a month, and have done for years.
that's scary shit.
the fact that trump deliberately inflames the population just demonstrates his contempt for common people. there's no other word for it.

try not to let the trolls get to you. their modus operandi is to provoke you into saying unguarded things because you're so pissed off.
it's something trump has picked up from others, and others have been inspired to do by watching him. it's a big cycle of abusive wank.

i'm technically a millenial, but i don't think this is necessarily unreasonable -


fuck it, she was (and continues to be) disrespectful and obnoxious to you - she doesn't know how some thngs work (political debate amongst them, presumably) and she probably never will.
i don't have much sympathy for anyone fighting trump's battles - but i will hear them out.
she's just trying to shut you up, by the sound of it.

incidentally, it's a shame to hear that you feel uncomfortable about your age - i used to have this idea that as people got older they grew more comfortable in their own skins, but that's obviously not the case for a lot of people.
i have a lot of friends that are a lot older than i am - quite a few that are around 65 - and friends who are around half my age, as well (all people i know through playing music, actually) and the older guys are always a hell of a lot of fun.

i've shared joints with a few older touring artists, and it's always a real pleasure to get the more senior musicians high

getting older is nothing to be ashamed of, i know i've used this line before - but getting old is way cooler than the alternative

Thank you for honestly giving me your take on this situation. I'm sure other's will see it differently. Just curious, do you live in Australia? Just don't answer if this makes you uncomfortable. It wasn't that bad really. I never felt threatened in the least, but my wife clearly did. Roger himself has said in his interview with Michael Smerconish that he gets on average about 10 people that walk out in disgust at every show. Smerconish asked Roger if he thought what he was doing played into Trump's hands. Roger put it right back on him saying, and I'm paraphrasing "It's you in the mass media that are giving Trump so much attention, you can't help yourselves because he's such a buffoon." Roger also said AMEX pulled their sponsorship in the US that cost them about 4 million but wryly said AMEX in Canada didn't follow suit. If you pull this interview up on youtube you'll see what I mean.

I don't know how to take Smerconish. He seems like the definition of blurring the lines between news and entertainment. My gut feeling is he is clearly someone ruled by ego. Now everyone has an ego but from my point of view his strikes as different in some way I can't put my finger on. I would be interested in what y'all think about that.

I sort of let this young lady get under my skin. I ranted about living thru having to do duck-and-cover drills at 7 in 1962 to watching our young president (yes I know he was no saint) get gunned down in cold blood on the streets of Dallas, then living thru the insanity of Vietnam. MLK and Robert Kennedy get gunned down, the whole late 60's thru early 70's craziness. Watching my older brother (who is a musician and still lives only for it) who could do no wrong in my eyes blow his mind on acid and slowly retreat into an unrecognizable schizophrenic person etc. etc. Like I've said before my father came here from Germany in '27 probably to escape what the treaty of versailles had done to his country and maybe hyperinflation (can't remember if this was still an issue by '27) and that I had relatives in Germany during WWII who were still alive in my lifetime so I didn't get my ideas about fascism from a book, I got it from people that actually lived thru it and IMHO our current situation is coming dangerously close that. We are still a great country though and I'm sure we'll be okay if we keep talking to one another.

Don't get me wrong, Roger clearly has some anti semitic views regarding Israel that are over the top. So after that incident I sort of realized me being angry all the time is kind of immature. I am going to try and ignore all the bullshit distractions and give Trump a chance to shine. My best to y'all, a healthy respectful conversation like this is a good thing and helped me to understand my biases better.

 

[spacejunk]

yeah, i'm australian.
and i'm sure my take on it is different to a lot of people's, i've no doubt.
obviously i only know what i read and what i'm told about what's gone on in america politically in the last year or so, but it's certainly disturbing.

it's not just troubling to americans, but i honestly feel for you guys.
like i've said previously, having american family, i know how disgusted all of my american family are of trump, especially the women.
i feel sorry for my young nieces, having this slimy guy as the president.
our government in australia is pretty disgraceful too - don't get me wrong, it's not just you guys.
but wow - trump is like nothing we've ever seen before, at least in the US.

the aggression in the way people are talking about politics is pretty concerning all around. fascism is a horrifying prospect, and i can't understand how people can practically beg to be oppressed by an authoritarian regime.

trump's main - and most vocal - supporters seem to be people that don't stand to gain anything from his administration's (apparent) agenda.
i say "apparent" because his real agenda is rather opaque - besides "rile up the population" and "get rich quick", i guess.

sometimes it's difficult not to play into the silly games online trolls play. they try to piss you off, so it's often best to ignore them as best you can.
it's good to hear your perspectives, and helps me understand it a bit better, thanks.

 

[FLA]

yeah, i'm australian.
and i'm sure my take on it is different to a lot of people's, i've no doubt.
obviously i only know what i read and what i'm told about what's gone on in america politically in the last year or so, but it's certainly disturbing.

it's not just troubling to americans, but i honestly feel for you guys.
like i've said previously, having american family, i know how disgusted all of my american family are of trump, especially the women.
i feel sorry for my young nieces, having this slimy guy as the president.
our government in australia is pretty disgraceful too - don't get me wrong, it's not just you guys.
but wow - trump is like nothing we've ever seen before, at least in the US.

the aggression in the way people are talking about politics is pretty concerning all around. fascism is a horrifying prospect, and i can't understand how people can practically beg to be oppressed by an authoritarian regime.

trump's main - and most vocal - supporters seem to be people that don't stand to gain anything from his administration's (apparent) agenda.
i say "apparent" because his real agenda is rather opaque - besides "rile up the population" and "get rich quick", i guess.

sometimes it's difficult not to play into the silly games online trolls play. they try to piss you off, so it's often best to ignore them as best you can.
it's good to hear your perspectives, and helps me understand it a bit better, thanks.

I have a friend my age who was in the military practically all his life. He was a helicopter pilot and incredibly still is at 61 now spraying for mosquitoes for the state. He told me Australia was his favorite duty station. He said unlike in the US, down there in your neck of the woods even if your just queuing up for something, people will start up a conversation with you and even though you've never met them before, within minutes it's like you've been friends all your life laughing and pleasantly yacking it up. Sounds incredible. Here it's sometimes more about what I've got vs what you've got and trying to one up each other. Take care.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Is this the real life... or is it just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality...

I'm too tired to read this morning. Presume I disagree with everything Trump does today and leave it at that 8)