Opioids Living with pancrititus - Alcohol to Opioids, is it possible to control?

[burn out]

Where did you move to which caused your drinking to be severely restricted, I've often had the random thought come into my head of why not move to a country where alcohol is fround upon or even illegal but that is just passing random thoughts which would probably never happen. Then again why not, I hate our culture in the west especially UK, every social event seems to revolve around alcohol and every holiday. Not to mention every weekend, and now Wednesdays and student nights and now 'dirty Thursdays', it's ridiculous.

I actually think you should really consider this. Not only because it would help you stay off alcohol but I think experiencing a different culture could be a tremendously beneficial experience for someone in your situation. There is so much more that life has to offer than what we are bombarded with in western culture. It's not just alcohol, but all the advertisements, materialism, disconnection from nature, egotism, noise and constant distraction/alienation from ourselves and thus each other.

Your problem really is psychological in the sense that you believe you need alcohol/miss alcohol and this gets reinforced every time you see people drinking. What you really need to get over this is simply a prolonged period of time of placing your attention elsewhere, focusing on other aspects of life and building your inner strength as a man, maybe a relationship with a woman who doesn't drink would help you a lot also. Then you'll see how unimportant alcohol truly is. Trust me if you cultivate a strong mind for yourself and healthy relationships, you will not miss alcohol at all and you will see those who need it as suffering from a weakness. Not saying everyone who drinks alcohol is weak, but many people who use it, do so to compensate for their inability to enjoy life without it. Read books by wise people, whether philosophical, religious, spiritual, psychological, whatever speaks to you. Its possible to teach yourself to enjoy life. Most people don't know this and waste their time in pursuits that don't yield much fruit. Find what is worthwhile in life and put your energy there. Do not focus on what you don't have or can't do, like not being able to drink. Your whole problem is the focusing of energy there.

 

[burn out]

You might have to experiment with kava several times and try strong dosages to get the euphoria and music appreciation you are looking for, but trust me they are possible with kava. Kava can get you totally hammered, with music appreciation, euphoria and whole body numbness. But being an herb, the effects are unpredictable and inconsistent. I used to be a daily drinker. Some nights, I'd down a few shells and get the most wonderful high from it. I'd literally experience a rush when it kicked it (I call it the kava rush) , followed by euphoria, unbelievable relaxation, anxiety relief, pain relief and spiritual insight. Then the next night, I'd drink the same dose of the same kava and not really feel very much. It wasn't tolerance either, because then the night after that I'd get a wonderful high again. You just can't predict what kava is gonna do. Some people will never be able to enjoy it or get the full effect, but it is definitely worth experimenting with a lot before giving up on. I'm not sure I can recommend you any sources though, because you are in the UK. Is it even legal there? I thought you had some kind of blanket ban on psychoactive substances.

And the organ damage is definitely not something I'd worry about, kava is a very safe natural herb. Pacific islanders drink it daily and live into their 80s. I think it's funny you were willing to drink enough alcohol to give yourself pancreatitus and you are considering taking oxy but you're worried about kava. Kava is about one thousand times less likely to kill you than oxy.

As for GHB I do believe it is less caustic than GBL. LIke I said Id do some research and I could be wrong, but I dont think occasional GHB use should damage your pancreas. Definitely try a better source on kratom and yes phenibut probably has terrible withdrawals (havent experienced them myself) but thats why its not something to use often. What you could do is use kava (which you can use as often as you like) and then every couple of weeks you could take phenibut or GHB and take kratom once a week. You shouldn't really be using drugs so often that you need to worry about withdrawals anyway and if you dont think you can control yourself, then its not worth it. Stick to kava, no withdrawal or careful use of kratom. Dont go near oxy if you can't control yourself. Phenibut also has music appreciation, though not as good as GHB.

 

[JamesP69]

I actually think you should really consider this. Not only because it would help you stay off alcohol but I think experiencing a different culture could be a tremendously beneficial experience for someone in your situation. There is so much more that life has to offer than what we are bombarded with in western culture. It's not just alcohol, but all the advertisements, materialism, disconnection from nature, egotism, noise and constant distraction/alienation from ourselves and thus each other.

Your problem really is psychological in the sense that you believe you need alcohol/miss alcohol and this gets reinforced every time you see people drinking. What you really need to get over this is simply a prolonged period of time of placing your attention elsewhere, focusing on other aspects of life and building your inner strength as a man, maybe a relationship with a woman who doesn't drink would help you a lot also. Then you'll see how unimportant alcohol truly is. Trust me if you cultivate a strong mind for yourself and healthy relationships, you will not miss alcohol at all and you will see those who need it as suffering from a weakness. Not saying everyone who drinks alcohol is weak, but many people who use it, do so to compensate for their inability to enjoy life without it. Read books by wise people, whether philosophical, religious, spiritual, psychological, whatever speaks to you. Its possible to teach yourself to enjoy life. Most people don't know this and waste their time in pursuits that don't yield much fruit. Find what is worthwhile in life and put your energy there. Do not focus on what you don't have or can't do, like not being able to drink. Your whole problem is the focusing of energy there.

Great reply, indeed I have thought about it many of times. Since my pancreatitis attacks I have been making a different circle of friends, from my group of friends who enjoy drinking and going to festivals to a few sober people, but making a new circle of friends takes time especially with social anxiety . My last 2 girlfriends have been Filipino girls and both lived here int he UK as registered nurses and their culture is far more social without the need to drink, the current girl im dating doesn't touch alcohol, smoke and loves to go on adventures. It is helping me so so much, well she may drink once a month, like 1 cider but never has around me ever. I have probably traveled and been on more adventures within the UK this year than any other year of my life because of her... it just shows how your circle of friends can really effect you, of course her culture and upbringing has a huge roll on this.

I am currently working within my familys business but I intend to go back to college or university (which will be annoying with all the drinking, but I am sure I can hang out with the more mature less drinking students!) and train in a field which lets me freelance, imagine working from anywhere in the world you please, that would be so amazing...

Thank you for your replies friend it all makes sense and I am glad you understand, I am just having to re-program my mind and it is not a quick process but I will get there. It doesn't really help that all my family and friends I have grown up with have put drugs first in pretty much every social situation but my new friend I am dating for example wouldn't think of any substance first, but where are we going to adventure today!

You might have to experiment with kava several times and try strong dosages to get the euphoria and music appreciation you are looking for, but trust me they are possible with kava. Kava can get you totally hammered, with music appreciation, euphoria and whole body numbness. But being an herb, the effects are unpredictable and inconsistent. I used to be a daily drinker. Some nights, I'd down a few shells and get the most wonderful high from it. I'd literally experience a rush when it kicked it (I call it the kava rush) , followed by euphoria, unbelievable relaxation, anxiety relief, pain relief and spiritual insight. Then the next night, I'd drink the same dose of the same kava and not really feel very much. It wasn't tolerance either, because then the night after that I'd get a wonderful high again. You just can't predict what kava is gonna do. Some people will never be able to enjoy it or get the full effect, but it is definitely worth experimenting with a lot before giving up on. I'm not sure I can recommend you any sources though, because you are in the UK. Is it even legal there? I thought you had some kind of blanket ban on psychoactive substances.

And the organ damage is definitely not something I'd worry about, kava is a very safe natural herb. Pacific islanders drink it daily and live into their 80s. I think it's funny you were willing to drink enough alcohol to give yourself pancreatitus and you are considering taking oxy but you're worried about kava. Kava is about one thousand times less likely to kill you than oxy.

As for GHB I do believe it is less caustic than GBL. LIke I said Id do some research and I could be wrong, but I dont think occasional GHB use should damage your pancreas. Definitely try a better source on kratom and yes phenibut probably has terrible withdrawals (havent experienced them myself) but thats why its not something to use often. What you could do is use kava (which you can use as often as you like) and then every couple of weeks you could take phenibut or GHB and take kratom once a week. You shouldn't really be using drugs so often that you need to worry about withdrawals anyway and if you dont think you can control yourself, then its not worth it. Stick to kava, no withdrawal or careful use of kratom. Dont go near oxy if you can't control yourself. Phenibut also has music appreciation, though not as good as GHB.

I really would like to find out more about GHB and it's mode of action and wether or not it effects the pancreas, I am not having much luck with google. There is one post where someone had acute pancreatitis after heavy daily GBL use but I cannot find much on GHB. I can imagine GBL being far more damaging to the body, I use to use it quite a lot for a short period of my life.

One article I found says:

'In a 1991 report Pierrefiche, Laborit and co-workers detailed the profound protective effect of GHB against alloxan-induced diabetes. Alloxan is a substance that is routinely used experimentally to destroy the insulin-producing beta cells of the pancreas. The rapid uptake of alloxan and an exquisite sensitivity to free radicals (which alloxan produces en masse) are unique features of these cells.'

I am not really sure what this means but perhaps it means GHB does play a role in the pancreas and could effect it directly, even though the quote I posted sounds quite positive.

I found it here: https://fr0gman.wordpress.com/discover-the-regenerative-effects-of-ghb-the-elixir-of-life/

If anyone has any more info or theory's on how GHB works and how it could effect the pancreas in it's mode of action in any way would be much appreciated. I am just researching, I will look after my health and treat lightly, just looking for more info!

I am pretty sure the opiod idea is now out the window and if I really want to party or festival (unllikely) or have a heavy social event I could use 4-FA, Kava Kava for relaxing... perhaps the very odd Xanax/weed combo to relax.
And perhaps look into Phenibut and GHB if I find out more research on the latter... I am a little skeptical as of yet about the GHB but it seems like the best alternative, but I am not willing to risk my health until I find out a bit more!

Thank you so much!

 

[burn out]

Don't forget kratom. And there one other alcohol substitute I forgot to mention. Amanita Muscaria. This mushroom can produce a divine inebriation which is similar to alcohol in some respects. Much better than alcohol, but also much more difficult to use. It is a very powerful entheogen/spiritual mushroom and can be dangerous. The same dose that got you high one day, can cause an overly intense spiritual experience the following day. Its a wonderful mushroom but it takes dedication and skill to use and not everyone will respond posiitively

 

[emkee_reinvented]

First of great thread good read.

If both Ghb and Kratom are an option. Seen from addiction perspective defenitely go for the Kratom. To me it feel's more controleable. It's probably the duration and the fact that it is more well rounded.

I have been addicted to both, Mitragyna Speciosa addiction is way better then G. But if the same is true for the effects on the organs? Just be careful with yourself en restrict if neccesary. And research. Congrat with your aproach

 

[JamesP69]

Don't forget kratom. And there one other alcohol substitute I forgot to mention. Amanita Muscaria. This mushroom can produce a divine inebriation which is similar to alcohol in some respects. Much better than alcohol, but also much more difficult to use. It is a very powerful entheogen/spiritual mushroom and can be dangerous. The same dose that got you high one day, can cause an overly intense spiritual experience the following day. Its a wonderful mushroom but it takes dedication and skill to use and not everyone will respond posiitively

I actually have some Mexican shrooms in stock, quite old now but I am sure they have their potency still they have been in a black dark place the whole time in a tied up bag but I am looking more of the standard recreational drug to go out and socialise really, I think I have my unwind at home alone choices decided really. I really want to get some information on GHB and it's effects on the gastroenterology part of the body and pancreatitis. I know i probobly won't get a full answer but someone here must have some knowledge I am sure.

First of great thread good read.

If both Ghb and Kratom are an option. Seen from addiction perspective defenitely go for the Kratom. To me it feel's more controleable. It's probably the duration and the fact that it is more well rounded.

I have been addicted to both, Mitragyna Speciosa addiction is way better then G. But if the same is true for the effects on the organs? Just be careful with yourself en restrict if neccesary. And research. Congrat with your aproach

I will look into Kratom and thanks for your response, I said earlier on in the thread I tried a little tube of it from a 'head shop' ears ago and nothing was really felt, I will try sauce some decent grate stuff if my research deems it safe for my illness.


Any other Pancreatitis sufferers out there? I'll make a thread soon where we can all vent off each other haha..

 

[JamesP69]

I have just googled Kratom and it seems it has now hit the Vape market, is it really possible to extract it into PG/VG juice and vape? I am quite the cloud chaser, this is interesting, and possibly would hit very fast?
Or is this just some mimic which doesn't really show the true potential of Kratom.

 

[burn out]

A. muscaria is totally different from mexican shrooms. You can go out and socilaize on it. Its not a psilocybin mushroom.

 

[keeping]

I have just googled Kratom and it seems it has now hit the Vape market, is it really possible to extract it into PG/VG juice and vape? I am quite the cloud chaser, this is interesting, and possibly would hit very fast?
Or is this just some mimic which doesn't really show the true potential of Kratom.

they made a kratom vape? i don't vape at all but i'd be crazy interested in that.
though i'm pretty sure kratom is illegal in the UK

 

[zebedee79]

I can't imagine kratom being able to have a high enough concentration in PG to be vapeable, i know you can get some strong extracts but to be effective you'd need cram all the active ingredients in a couple of ml's of liquid. And yeah kratom is banned in the UK unfortunately.

 

[bluebellbutterfly]

I don't have so much to add other than I feel your pain in reference to not being able to drink alcohol. I had liver failure from being poisoned, basically, and had to stop drinking for some time. My industry basically functions on alcohol; it's how business gets done. It was the most difficult time and I was using benzos to assist navigating the rough waters. I can't advise you how best to proceed but I do have some semblance of understanding where you are right now.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

If at all possible you should find a high CBD/ low THC strain of weed such as Charlotte's Web. Seems you really like substances that effect your GABA receptors (alcohol/ xanax etc) though. You could give Phenibut a try but it's addictive and has its own weird set of withdrawals. If you do decide to try Phenibut keep it at 1x or 2x a week and you shouldn't have to worry about your tolerance building up fast.

 

[Scrofula]

What do you mean about the doctors giving me a 'line' and are you saying the cysts are a major complication?

[ Sorry, I was out in the hills the last three days, not ignoring you. ] I meant that I still don't like doctors using a weak correlation to tell you "another sip of booze will kill you on the spot". For one thing, they say that any time you show up in the ER with an alcohol-tangent problem. Another, what if there's a cause they're ignoring? We'll find out it's a specific kind of salami that makes just the right size of gall stone for a flare-up. That's a real cause of pancreatitis, and it is possible to pass the stone, before you get an ultrasound. Why not tell us that, instead of the booze thing?

I'm more prone to believe them about pseudocysts. My understanding is that they don't really go away, it's just the active enzymes get walled off with scar tissue, so your pancreas starts to be like a liver with cirrhosis. I don't think them "popping" is a real concern, more like causing chronic pancreatitis (we had the acute version), which means taking pills with enzymes every meal and being constantly in pain (from indigestion), since by then the pancreas is kind of withered and dead inside you.

I think that since you spent a week in ICU, plus pseudocysts, you had a typical bad case, while my worst was eight days in a regular wing, and most of that was just because a mild fever wouldn't stop. So, you have to ask, how much weight to put on a doctor's opinion v. serious injury or death?

when I was able to have my first sip of water I was over the moon

The nurse cut me off of ice chips cause I was eating so many. I had the Ex sneak me little cups of water. It was awful, when I could barely sleep I'd have dreams of waterfalls and hamburgers.

When you was drunk 2010-2012 was that heavy and every night?

Heavy would be an understatement. I was going for Nic Cage in "Leaving Las Vegas." Only I was leaving Oakland, so there's some crack involved too. Twice woke up admitted to the hospital, intubated; maybe two dozen ambulance rides after getting scraped off the pavement, twice told my alcohol content--one was over 0.560 and the other around 0.530, who knows if those were the highest, after I started getting neurological exams before they'd release me. So that was a kind of rough period for me.

Where did you move to which caused your drinking to be severely restricted,

The Ex (can't understand why she'd be "Ex" after all of this), left me in a parking lot in Los Banos, ninety miles from Oakland. My parents dragged me home from there (I totally could have owned Los Banos). My parents did their best to stop it, but eventually total lack of any form of money did it.

Here in the US we do have what are called Sober Living housing, sometimes Halfway Houses. I'm sure there's an equivalent where you are, if you think those restrictions will help. Of course, that includes being sober from everything, including benzos.

There really seems to be no real alternative to alcohol, it's such a shame. My own fault of course though.

I'm beginning to think that's a learned attitude, and I'm definitely the socially awkward guy at the party who needs alcohol on board stat to even talk to someone (then keeps at it until twenty minutes later he's already pissed off the host's wife and pissed on the stereo). It could be like aversion therapy, where if you hate spiders they just throw spiders at you until you stop screaming. Be social until you're no longer unsocial.

Likewise, get a different after-work routine going for like four months until you forget the effects. You really will discover that just sitting for fifteen minutes is all the adjustment you need.

Scrofula - If you don't mind me asking, what are your drugs of choice to socialize, unwind at home and whatever else now that you have had pancreatitis attacks several times now, I really am interested.

First, I'm still in-between on escaping this basement, so it's still unfair to say that I've got a drug of choice for that. If I moved out tomorrow with a steady paycheck, I can't say for sure that I wouldn't have a six-pack a day going by Wednesday.

BUT, not that I could ever recommend it, just having a new drug meth around, was enough that I haven't been drunk since February, and have a half-pint of liquor sitting here since June. I think it's because my short work gig earned me some cash, and I can go get drunk in secret whenever I want now. So I don't.

My mind is like a pissed-off five year-old, I guess.