Gnostic Christianity MEGATHREAD

[Scrofula]

Where did I say I believed in an afterlife and one true god?
Please get the quote as I think your reading retention is off the mark.

I've already quoted you twice with it:

No. I have a heaven with a God.

Please understand I'd never encountered your particular theology before when I came to dump on your logic.

I'm sure by now you've met people confused by the scandal of calling you a Christian, you who follows Jesus, believes in a god in a heaven, and frequently quotes the New Testament, then denies its foundations.

It's not a terrible way to start the conversation here, but you can probably drop the feigned hurt.

Meanwhile, your religion has even less of a foundation than orthodox Christians. Do you amend your NT citations as new scholarship comes out debating the degree of Roman influence on different epistles? Where's the cutoff from early Paul to late Paul (and all the fake Pauls)?

I ask because when you start cherry picking like that to create a religion, ask why not just drop the religion aspect. You can have a spiritual believe, and quote from both the NT and the Bhagavad Gita if you want.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I've already quoted you twice with it:



Please understand I'd never encountered your particular theology before when I came to dump on your logic.

I'm sure by now you've met people confused by the scandal of calling you a Christian, you who follows Jesus, believes in a god in a heaven, and frequently quotes the New Testament, then denies its foundations.

It's not a terrible way to start the conversation here, but you can probably drop the feigned hurt.

Meanwhile, your religion has even less of a foundation than orthodox Christians. Do you amend your NT citations as new scholarship comes out debating the degree of Roman influence on different epistles? Where's the cutoff from early Paul to late Paul (and all the fake Pauls)?

I ask because when you start cherry picking like that to create a religion, ask why not just drop the religion aspect. You can have a spiritual believe, and quote from both the NT and the Bhagavad Gita if you want.

You did not quote me because you could not.

I do not drop the religious aspect as I see the benefits that community churches brings to people in the sense of assuaging their tribal natures as I see religions as tribal groups.

Here is an example of that.



Regards
DL

 

[Jabberwocky]

If we are individuals are gods, or our own God or whatnot, how does that set us in relation to the environment, the material world, etc?

I could easily see something like this as ending up at the same kind of place we're at today regarding the kind of relationship societies have with their environments (that they're at our disposal, to be acted upon, etc., products of a hype-mechanistic worldview).

 

[Scrofula]

"I do not drop the religious aspect as I see the benefits that community churches brings to people in the sense of assuaging their tribal natures as I see religions as tribal groups."

Do you have a community church for your odd brand? What do the nearby churches think.


"You did not quote me because you could not."


Alright, whatever you say chief. Enjoy your god in a heaven that I quoted three times now.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

If we are individuals are gods, or our own God or whatnot, how does that set us in relation to the environment, the material world, etc?

I could easily see something like this as ending up at the same kind of place we're at today regarding the kind of relationship societies have with their environments (that they're at our disposal, to be acted upon, etc., products of a hype-mechanistic worldview).

I do not see it that way.

Let me give you this Gnostic Christian quote.

GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] becomeacquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are thesons of the living Father.
But if youwill not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are thatpoverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God'skingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world isanything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty.

toothpastedog

If you see yourself in control of all you have no need to lord over things. People generally do not harm what they think they own and respect. People tend to cooperate with nature and respect it when they see it as part of the perfection of all things.
You might recal that the more earth respecting tribes always thank their God and the God of the animal they kill.

"

I do not drop the religious aspect as I see the benefits that community churches brings to people in the sense of assuaging their tribal natures as I see religions as tribal groups."

Do you have a community church for your odd brand? What do the nearby churches think.

I do not, and the way religions are shrinking in the West, I likely never will unless one of these opens nearby.



That, to me is the only worthy church as it has a preacher that tells the truth as compared to all the Christian and Muslim one who lie on a constant basis to their gullible sheeple.


"

You did not quote me because you could not."


Alright, whatever you say chief. Enjoy your god in a heaven that I quoted three times now.

I tend not to ask for what is already given.

Regards
DL

 

[Jabberwocky]

I do not see it that way.

Let me give you this Gnostic Christian quote.

GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] becomeacquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are thesons of the living Father.
But if youwill not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are thatpoverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God'skingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world isanything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty.

toothpastedog

If you see yourself in control of all you have no need to lord over things. People generally do not harm what they think they own and respect. People tend to cooperate with nature and respect it when they see it as part of the perfection of all things.
You might recal that the more earth respecting tribes always thank their God and the God of the animal they kill.



I tend not to ask for what is already given.

Regards
DL

People have and continue to practice slavery though, where other people are owned as chattel. The very practice of slavery is founded on violence of various forms. The idea of ownership vis a vis the environment is problematic, part of what I was alluding to earlier.

That said, perhaps you are familiar with the concept of stewardship? Could that fit into your metaphysical schema?

On an unrelated note, I have a question: Clearly you have been around BL for some time now. Why did you join, and what keeps you attracted to the community?

 

[psy997]

GB is trying to say that he sees himself as one with all that lays before him, all that he perceives. Which, in addition to the knowing of his own personal sovereignty and thus full control of his being, leads to his statement of being in control of all that he sees. Yet, in seeing all as one as well as existing in self-love, there is then no need to control and in fact the opposite.

The both of you talk past him and mince his words. He's not explaining himself the way I would to y'all's questioning but still.

 

[vortech]

There is something paradoxical, or perhaps Zen Buddhist to this. I concluded in my teens that God is a paradox. It helped me accept the nature of inquiries that were logically impossible yet for all intents and purposes very much reality.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

People have and continue to practice slavery though, where other people are owned as chattel. The very practice of slavery is founded on violence of various forms.

If you include religions in your use of violence, I agree. Both Christianity and Islam are basically slave owning ideologies as both preach being slaved to their Gods. That would apply to the men who pass on that slave owning to women whom they slave to themselves.

Christianity has gotten partially civilized but Islam are still selling their female children.

The idea of ownership vis a vis the environment is problematic, part of what I was alluding to earlier.

That ownership only applies to those who can enforce their ownership with force. Note how our native populations did not have the force required to prevent the settlers force and how we put them in ghettos we call reservations.

That said, perhaps you are familiar with the concept of stewardship? Could that fit into your metaphysical schema?

Certainly. I practice that wherever I go as I temporarily take passion of wherever I am. So do you.

On an unrelated note, I have a question: Clearly you have been around BL for some time now. Why did you join, and what keeps you attracted to the community?

I joined to learn something new, as that is one of the greatest pleasures of life, teach so as to give others that great pleasure, I gain little from that except the [pleasure of doing my duty to others, and preach should someone get interested in seeking the only God they can ever know inside of themselves. I also seek good mind to reduce my disgust of knowing just how many fools are about.

GB is trying to say that he sees himself as one with all that lays before him, all that he perceives. Which, in addition to the knowing of his own personal sovereignty and thus full control of his being, leads to his statement of being in control of all that he sees. Yet, in seeing all as one as well as existing in self-love, there is then no need to control and in fact the opposite.

Wow. I have a hard time in speaking of my own feelings but you have got me pegged.

I thank you.

Seems that you are one of the good minds I like to find. My kingdom for such eloquence. You should be a Gnostic Christian my friend. I feel like an Aaron to your Moses.

The both of you talk past him and mince his words. He's not explaining himself the way I would to y'all's questioning but still.

I knew from day one that I would have a hard time, thanks to me being a poorly educated Frenchman, in expressing my deeper thoughts so I tend to have learned to live with lack of eloquence and grammatical skills.

I even looked to pay for a proof writer for a time but could not find one. As compared to when I started, what you see now is poor, yes, but 500% better than what I began with.

Regards

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

There is something paradoxical, or perhaps Zen Buddhist to this. I concluded in my teens that God is a paradox. It helped me accept the nature of inquiries that were logically impossible yet for all intents and purposes very much reality.

Do you consider yourself a paradox, remembering that Yin and Yang are not opposites but complimentary to each other?

If you are logically impossible, then all other life must be as well. No?

Regards
DL

 

[Jabberwocky]

Considering that the vast majority of Islamic communities abhor slavery, I found this bit of Islamophobia rather disgusting (it really does you no credit and detracts from the wiser stuff you have to say):

Christianity has gotten partially civilized but Islam are still selling their female children.

BUT other than that you're alright with me bishop. You have a very different way of speaking about thing, a way I think is very easily misunderstood given the way most people normally talk about religion or spiritual subjects, but I like a lot of your ideas and we certainly have a lot in common.

GB is trying to say that he sees himself as one with all that lays before him, all that he perceives. Which, in addition to the knowing of his own personal sovereignty and thus full control of his being, leads to his statement of being in control of all that he sees. Yet, in seeing all as one as well as existing in self-love, there is then no need to control and in fact the opposite.

The both of you talk past him and mince his words. He's not explaining himself the way I would to y'all's questioning but still.

I'm not sure I understand this.

 

[psy997]

I'm not sure how to write it any more simply.

Also, to claim GB Islamophobic because of his truthful statement of Muslims still selling, and basically objectifying, women openly is ludicrous. Do you then counter claim that Islam is of no fault? If not, are you then Islamaphobic? Come on.

 

[swilow]

Its not like Christians are known for treating women well.

 

[psy997]

Sure but gnosticism is a whole lot different than any creed of Christianity peddling the degradation of women.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Considering that the vast majority of Islamic communities abhor slavery, I found this bit of Islamophobia rather disgusting (it really does you no credit and detracts from the wiser stuff you have to say):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSPvnFDDQHk

Check the stats of how many believe that women can and should be beaten when their owner man feels it required. Just for one of the dehumanizing things done to slaves.

BUT other than that you're alright with me bishop. You have a very different way of speaking about thing, a way I think is very easily misunderstood given the way most people normally talk about religion or spiritual subjects, but I like a lot of your ideas and we certainly have a lot in common.

Thanks.

Consider that the way most people normally talk about religion is with respect for homophobic and misogynous Gods of war and genocide.

I speak from a moral perspective while they speak from the ass of their God, where their heads are shoved.

I'm not sure how to write it any more simply.

Also, to claim GB Islamophobic because of his truthful statement of Muslims still selling, and basically objectifying, women openly is ludicrous. Do you then counter claim that Islam is of no fault? If not, are you then Islamaphobic? Come on.

Thanks for this.

Its not like Christians are known for treating women well.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed intointolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grownthemselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoralways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works anddeeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as hispeople, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudlycontinuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Sure but gnosticism is a whole lot different than any creed of Christianity peddling the degradation of women.

We have tied equality to righteousness and as a Universalist creed, we cannot discriminate without a just cause which is what the homophobic and misogynous religions do.

I have to give women and gays equality and as a man, I feel it is my duty to society, and especially family to place women and children above me. Equality plus, so to speak. This makes it the duty of women and children to accept the elevation that I would push them to.

Think of it as the law of the sea applied to land.
In that sense, saying I believe in equality is not the real truth, as I place myself below women and children.

Regards
DL

 

[swilow]

^Why place yourself below? Curious.

As above...

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not sure how to write it any more simply.

Also, to claim GB Islamophobic because of his truthful statement of Muslims still selling, and basically objectifying, women openly is ludicrous. Do you then counter claim that Islam is of no fault? If not, are you then Islamaphobic? Come on.

Is the particular practices you see today referred to as sharia law a product of Islam? Actually, it isn't. It's a product of how those who assume power interpret and use Islam for their own particular ends, particularly as far as maintaining existing power structures to. Depending on the time and place, Islamic law has varied just as much as our history of jurisprudence in the western world. Historically speaking, Islamic communities were once a bastion of gender based equalities, particularly as far as divorce for women go, far, far before divorce became a legal option for western women.

He isn't islamophic because he stated a fact that some Islamic communities still practice slavery (see Mauritania), but that wasn't what I took issue with. It's extracting something supposedly essential about a hugely diverse worldwide Islamic community that promotes slavery. That IS the definition of Islamaphobia.

There is nothing inherent to either Christianity or Islam in my experience that promotes such inhumane practices (or if there is, it's an issue equally with both canons), though various leaders at various points in history have used such religions to legitimize inhuman practices they benefit from. But it would be a mistake to identify something about how a particular leader or community used/uses their religion, whether Christianity or Islam, to justify inhumane practices as essentially representative of the actual religion itself.

So yes, Islam is no more at fault than Christianity is. I take it you don't have much exposure to Islam or Muslims compared to Juedo-Christians, or about the history of western religion and the global slave trade.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus is the way and that way is the Gnostic Christian way. Not Christianity’s way.

Jesus is the way and that way is the Gnostic Christian way. Not Christianity’s way.

Isaiah 56:11) "They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

The Luke and Mark quotes are referring to the following.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

For an extended view of that from my favorite philosopher. ----



You will note that the bible teaches Jesus’ way and Gnostic Christianity follows that good way, yet the church never teaches Jesus’ true way.

Why is Christianity ignoring and even hiding the only worthy Jesus and the teachings of his way?

Regards
DL

 

[AddictRecon]

After reading the bible, I dont see how God is limited by anything accept logic itself, which I feel exists because God exists.

Its why the question "Can God create a rock so heavy He cant lift it" is philosophically, well, stupid... The question is malformed, it lacks definition.. God can only do what God can logically do. Creating a rock so heavy that God cant lift it presupposes God is affected by physical weight, which Hes not. The flaw is not with God, the flaw is in the presupposition coded into the question, one that cannot be true. Its not a yes or no that could answer the question, and the question itself is nonsensical. Can God run blue wednesday shutter cats? If not, is it then fair to say He is not God because He cant do that?

The answer to the rock question is simple, No, God cannot, because its not logically possible for God to do in the first place. God would have to violate a principle of logic, refuting His own existence merely by trying to create said rock..

Can God create a square circle, or a married bachelor? More stupid questions.. yet someone will no doubt say that God is not God simply because He doesnt literally break the principles of logic, but reality wouldnt exist if a logical contradiction could exist.


I seems more like men are forming questions about God as if God is limited by the same things humans are, but there is a major difference between men on earth, and God.