4-HO-MET v 4-ACO-DMT

[nuube]

Hi all. I have been tripping with a mix of MXE and 4-HO-MET a lot recently finding a sweet spot of about 45mg of each. I am now going to park that for a bit and explore some 4-ACO-DMT, (had been thinking of trying the 2c-x's but have finally settled on 4-ACO-DMT).

Anyway form what I can tell I generally take a heavy dose of psychedelics - 300mcg is my go to dose of lysergamides and with the 4-HO-MET dose being nearly twice the 'heavy' dose stated on erowid I am wondering where to start with the 4-ACO-DMT.

Anyone want to advise on a good starting dose so that I will have a decent experience?

Many thanks for the help.

 

[tokezu]

I can't really advise you on a dose, beyond saying that it's always better to have taken too little than to have taken too much. IIRC 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET seemed pretty similar in potency for me, from a general "how affected are you by the drug" point of view. But 4-AcO-DMT (just like mushrooms) has a certain quality of deepness/seriousness/mysteriousness about it that I haven't found with 4-HO-MET or lysergamides. This quality can make for very rewarding, but also for very challenging trips. Do you have experience with mushrooms? If your main point of reference is 4-HO-MET then I think you could be in for a surprise, as that one seems to be on the very light and fun end of the spectrum. Also 4-AcO-DMT can be pretty sedating. Not that it is totally unsuited to be used in nature but probably not for any kind of active exploring, but rather just lying around in nice spot and not moving much.

 

[Hodor]

Doses for 4-AcO-DMT are usually the same as those for 4-HO-MET, except 4-AcO-DMT is generally considered to have a more intense headspace (possibly too intense if you're going to add MXE on top of a strong dose).

That said, if you're already used to the more intense headspace of a ~300 µg LSD/ALD-52/1p trip then you should be able to handle 30-40 mg of 4-AcO-DMT pretty well (I'd recommend doing it without the MXE though).

Of course for harm reduction purposes it might be a good idea to start off with just a very small dose to make sure what you have is actually 4-AcO-DMT and not something far stronger (there have been a few incidents of people selling the highly potent 5-MeO-MiPT as 4-substituted tryptamines).

 

[nuube]

Hi guys, thanks for the input. I would count myself a reasonably experienced traveller - LSD25, 1P-LSD, AL-LAD, LSZ, LSA, ETH-LAD, DMT, Salvia, Mushrooms, Bufotenin (only twice) 4-HO-MET, (with and without MXE), MXE, 3-MEO-PCP, 25c Nbome and 25i Nbome, a couple of other disassociatives and MDMA once- all numerous times. I've had 'a few difficult trips - a Salvia one where I thought I was dying was intense but ultimately a very enlightening experience and a couple of REALLY deep ones on the 4-HO-MET/MXE combo - I became 'God/everything.'

I tend to find the doses listed on erowid as very tame and am always in the strong/heavy range. I am primarily interested in a spiritual type experience but I do like some nice visuals and I really liked the sedation I got with LSA. I would have had more difficulty with the lysergamides at lower doses, (come up)- at 100 mcgs they tend to be stimulating and anxiety provoking, the higher doses are always better.

As it will be my first time taking the 4-ACO-DMT I wont be mixing it with anything, not even cannabis, (ran out and can't course any more at the minute ). Reading through the trip reports as you can imagine there is a very mixed bag some being wiped out at a very low dose, (well to me) of say 10 mgs and others having a great time on 100mg. I was thinking since it is similar to mushrooms and 4-HO-MET I would dispense with my usual low to high strategy and jump in a bit deeper. Set and setting will be perfect as I only trip when all my requirements for a good trip are in place including good weather so I can sit outside at night.

How does 40 mg of 4-ACO-DMT on its own sound for a starter?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Cyanoide]

I can say a few words about the subjective differences between the two.

I find 4-HO-MET to be a "fun" tryptamine, colourful and amusing, quite stimulating and lots of eye candy. It's fun to move around and explore things, as it keeps you quite active. But it's not especially deep or introspective.

4-AcO-DMT is very shroom-like, it can be quite heavily sedating and has a kind of "stoned" feeling. At least for me it's considerably more deep mentally than 4-HO-MET, more mellow and introspective. It has always been warm and gentle to me, strong empathy (much more so than e.g. on MDMA where the empathy feels very forceful and chemical) and a strong connection to nature. Although moving around on 4-AcO-DMT is not always an option, I definitely recommend a sweet spot outdoors, in nature.

 

[nuube]

I can say a few words about the subjective differences between the two.

I find 4-HO-MET to be a "fun" tryptamine, colourful and amusing, quite stimulating and lots of eye candy. It's fun to move around and explore things, as it keeps you quite active. But it's not especially deep or introspective.

4-AcO-DMT is very shroom-like, it can be quite heavily sedating and has a kind of "stoned" feeling. At least for me it's considerably more deep mentally than 4-HO-MET, more mellow and introspective. It has always been warm and gentle to me, strong empathy (much more so than e.g. on MDMA where the empathy feels very forceful and chemical) and a strong connection to nature. Although moving around on 4-AcO-DMT is not always an option, I definitely recommend a sweet spot outdoors, in nature.

I like the idea of a good sedating psychedelic, I found LSA quite sedating and enjoyable because of that. I am going to wait until the next warm night here and go for it then. I love the idea of it being deep. I found the 4-HO-MET/MXE brilliant for inner exploration as well as connectedness, they compliment each other well. I find the lysergamides very shallow in comparison, (although LSD25, being the first psychedelic I ever took really opened me up but that was over 20 years ago and I find the analogues don't drop me as deep now but that could be the ideas I first came to realise taking acid are 'old hat' for want of a better word. Mind you a lysergamide and some MXE could give me the depth I'm looking.

What way would you compare the two dose wise? Do you dose lower or higher on the 4-ACO-DMT?

Thanks for the help.

 

[nuube]

Went to take a test dose and its DET not DMT! SO its 4-ACO-DET that I will be taking! Dumbass!!

 

[Cyanoide]

Went to take a test dose and its DET not DMT! SO its 4-ACO-DET that I will be taking! Dumbass!!

I'm sorry to inform you that 4-AcO-DET is not like 4-AcO-DMT...

 

[nuube]

I'm sorry to inform you that 4-AcO-DET is not like 4-AcO-DMT...

Ah this isn't so good, although from reading reddit there are people saying they can't tell the difference in the two. I will have to get some 4_ACO-DMT the next time I make an order.

How do the two compare, is the DET as sedating as the DMT? What about the body load?

Thanks for the input Cyanoide.

 

[psy997]

Ah this isn't so good, although from reading reddit there are people saying they can't tell the difference in the two.

The -DETs and -DMTs are pretty different compounds. While you're going to enjoy and have some great experiences with your 4-AcO-DET, it definitely isn't the intensely deep and spiritual compound that 4-AcO-DMT is.

 

[nuube]

What about augmenting with MXE? I find it goes well with the 4-HO-MET enabling great depth and intospection. Would I be correct in assuming it would be the same with the 4-ACO-DET?

 

[Kaleida]

I honestly think that 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-DET are quite similar... and that 4-AcO-DET is the spiritually deeper substance. To each their own.

It's not as sedating as 4-AcO-DMT, though. But it is less stimulating than a lot of tryptamines for me.

 

[psy997]

Well shit Kaleida, consider me wrong then if you say so. I must be thinking of another tryptamine besides 4-AcO-DET then!

 

[nuube]

I honestly think that 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-DET are quite similar... and that 4-AcO-DET is the spiritually deeper substance. To each their own.

It's not as sedating as 4-AcO-DMT, though. But it is less stimulating than a lot of tryptamines for me.

That'd do me, just what I'm looking for. What way does the dosage compare?

 

[Kaleida]

Well shit Kaleida, consider me wrong then if you say so. I must be thinking of another tryptamine besides 4-AcO-DET then!

Haha, well as I said, to each their own. No reason we've all got to react the same way. Though, I do think there's some precedent for this.... After all, this is from the TiHKAL page on 4-HO-DET:

(with 15 mg phosphate ester, orally) "It is meaningful to say that I ceased to exist, becoming immersed in the ground of Being, in Brahman, in God, in 'nothingness,' in Ultimate Reality, or in some similar religious symbol for oneness. The feelings I experienced could best be described as cosmic tenderness, infinite love, penetrating peace, eternal blessing and unconditional acceptance on one hand and, on the other, as unspeakable awe, overflowing joy, primeval humility, inexpressible gratitude and boundless devotion. Yet, all of these words are hopelessly inadequate and can do little more than meekly point toward the genuine, inexpressible feelings actually experienced. It is misleading even to use the words, 'I experienced,' as during the peak of the experience (which must have lasted at least an hour) there was no duality between myself and what I experienced. Rather, I was these feelings, or ceased to be in them and felt no loss at the cessation. Four days after the experience itself, I continue to feel a deep sense of awe and reverence, and am simultaneously intoxicated with an ecstatic joy. This euphoric feeling is in no sense analogous to hebephrenic giddiness; it includes elements of profound peace and steadfastness, surging like a spring from a depth of my being which has rarely, if ever, been tapped prior to the drug experience."

Also, since it's such a relevant coincidence, I will say that I also recently recommended 4-AcO-DET to TheAppleCore specifically on the basis of its significant similarity of the readily available 4-substituted tryptamines to 4-AcO-DMT, and I happen to know that he had a meaningful and deep experience on it just yesterday, while remaining lucid enough to carry on an intellectual conversation. Seems like a good one to me.

That'd do me, just what I'm looking for. What way does the dosage compare?

Well, I won't promise anything since there does seem to be a conflict of opinions, but it's definitely one that would work for me in that way, so I hope it will for you too.

For me, 4-AcO-DMT appears to be the least potent of the 4-substituted tryptamines with smaller alkyl tails. I've had experiences on 4-AcO-DET that were nearly twice as strong at barely over half the dosage. It does seem like a lot of people get further on less 4-AcO-DMT.... Since it's more relevant to your personal experience and seems to be a bit more common of a response for me, I'll say that 4-HO-MET is only a little more potent than 4-AcO-DET for me; despite them being qualitatively different experiences, quantitatively speaking I would expect relatively similar overall intensity from the same amount of either, with 4-HO-MET being more in your face but 4-AcO-DET being deeper.

 

[nuube]

Haha, well as I said, to each their own. No reason we've all got to react the same way. Though, I do think there's some precedent for this.... After all, this is from the TiHKAL page on 4-HO-DET:

(with 15 mg phosphate ester, orally) "It is meaningful to say that I ceased to exist, becoming immersed in the ground of Being, in Brahman, in God, in 'nothingness,' in Ultimate Reality, or in some similar religious symbol for oneness. The feelings I experienced could best be described as cosmic tenderness, infinite love, penetrating peace, eternal blessing and unconditional acceptance on one hand and, on the other, as unspeakable awe, overflowing joy, primeval humility, inexpressible gratitude and boundless devotion. Yet, all of these words are hopelessly inadequate and can do little more than meekly point toward the genuine, inexpressible feelings actually experienced. It is misleading even to use the words, 'I experienced,' as during the peak of the experience (which must have lasted at least an hour) there was no duality between myself and what I experienced. Rather, I was these feelings, or ceased to be in them and felt no loss at the cessation. Four days after the experience itself, I continue to feel a deep sense of awe and reverence, and am simultaneously intoxicated with an ecstatic joy. This euphoric feeling is in no sense analogous to hebephrenic giddiness; it includes elements of profound peace and steadfastness, surging like a spring from a depth of my being which has rarely, if ever, been tapped prior to the drug experience."

Also, since it's such a relevant coincidence, I will say that I also recently recommended 4-AcO-DET to TheAppleCore specifically on the basis of its significant similarity of the readily available 4-substituted tryptamines to 4-AcO-DMT, and I happen to know that he had a meaningful and deep experience just yesterday, while remaining lucid enough to carry on an intellectual conversation. Seems like a good one to me.



Well, I won't promise anything since there does seem to be a conflict of opinions, but it's definitely one that would work for me in that way, so I hope it will for you too.

For me, 4-AcO-DMT appears to be the least potent of the 4-substituted tryptamines with smaller alkyl tails. I've had experiences on 4-AcO-DET that were nearly twice as strong at barely over half the dosage. It does seem like a lot of people get further on less 4-AcO-DMT.... Since it's more relevant to your personal experience and seems to be a bit more common of a response for me, I'll say that 4-HO-MET is only a little more potent than 4-AcO-DET for me; despite them being qualitatively different experiences, quantitatively speaking I would expect relatively similar overall intensity from the same amount of either, with 4-HO-MET being more in your face but 4-AcO-DET being deeper.

That's promising, thanks for that.

So would you say that taking a dose similar to what I can handle of 4-HO-MET would be a safe assumption?

 

[Kaleida]

No problem. I hesitate to tell anyone to jump into a heavy dose with a new psychedelic no matter what level of experience they have, but, generally speaking, if you're used to powerful psychedelic experiences and seeking and prepared for such a thing, then yeah, that sounds like a good plan to me. 4-AcO-DET is much more likely to cause things like ego dissolution and dissociation than 4-HO-MET for me, and yet, its starkly lucid and grounded nature still makes it pretty easy to handle, at least in my experience and according to most of the people I've talked to about it. Assuming you react similar to me, if you can handle, say, 30 mg of 4-HO-MET, then you can handle 30 mg of 4-AcO-DET, as long as you're in the right headspace for it. It might seem slightly weaker than what you'd expect from the same amount of 4-HO-MET until you really get a feel for it, because again, it is less in your face... but it should still be a pretty solid dose, and hitting slightly under the mark isn't the worst thing in the world when trying a new substance for the first time.

Just stick to the typical psychedelic precautions and I'm sure you'll be fine, just don't underestimate it as it can ramp up pretty fast.

 

[nuube]

No problem. I hesitate to tell anyone to jump into a heavy dose with a new psychedelic no matter what level of experience they have, but, generally speaking, if you're used to powerful psychedelic experiences and seeking and prepared for such a thing, then yeah, that sounds like a good plan to me. 4-AcO-DET is much more likely to cause things like ego dissolution and dissociation than 4-HO-MET for me, and yet, its starkly lucid and grounded nature still makes it pretty easy to handle, at least in my experience and according to most of the people I've talked to about it. Assuming you react similar to me, if you can handle, say, 30 mg of 4-HO-MET, then you can handle 30 mg of 4-AcO-DET, as long as you're in the right headspace for it. It might seem slightly weaker than what you'd expect from the same amount of 4-HO-MET until you really get a feel for it, because again, it is less in your face... but it should still be a pretty solid dose, and hitting slightly under the mark isn't the worst thing in the world when trying a new substance for the first time.

Just stick to the typical psychedelic precautions and I'm sure you'll be fine, just don't underestimate it as it can ramp up pretty fast.

I normally take about 45-50 of the 4-HO-MET mixed with about 40-45 of MXE; both drugs have a synergistic bend in them, (the last time I had this pair I hand one Of the best times of my life sitting in the dark . I took 80 mg of 4-HO-MET and ended up sitting on the kitchen floor crying one minute, laughing the next! Thankfully I got my shit together through meditating on my breath.

 

[Kaleida]

Haha, I beleive it, the combination of 4-HO-MET and nitrous oxide gets me to a similar emotional state so I can only imagine methoxetamine being incredible with it. If you can handle that I'm sure you can handle a more typical, even if still strong dose of 4-AcO-DET on its own, again, just as long as you're smart about it.

 

[nuube]

Haha, I beleive it, the combination of 4-HO-MET and nitrous oxide gets me to a similar emotional state so I can only imagine methoxetamine being incredible with it. If you can handle that I'm sure you can handle a more typical, even if still strong dose of 4-AcO-DET on its own, again, just as long as you're smart about it.

That would be my thinking. I get to great places on the combo - I've been EVERYTHING, I was all humans, all mater and God there was a bit of anxiety on the last leg of the journey there but nothing I couldn't easily handle. I finds lower doses seem to bother me more than larger ones.

Thanks for replying Kaleida